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#REDIRECT [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/User/Archive]]
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==Closing==
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===[[/Archive/September_2006#Babel_user_box_categories|Babel user box categories]]===
The unanimous consensus was for the renaming of these categories, but none of them have actually been renamed, and now the discussion has been archived. <span style="font-family:serif;">—[[User:Ptkfgs|ptk]]✰[[User_talk:Ptkfgs|fgs]]</span> 22:34, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Update'''. I've created all the new categories. Still need a bot to move the stragglers (or it can be done manually).--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 14:04, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
===[[:Category:Celloists]] to [[:Category:Wikipedian cellists]]===
Misspelled category, also confusion with [[:Category:Cellists]]. - [[User:Mike Rosoft|Mike Rosoft]] 21:24, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Speedy Rename''', per nom. - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 22:02, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename.'''--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 22:12, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
==October 14==
====[[:category:Wikipedians who are Sphenisciologists]] to [[:category:Wikipedians interested in penguins]]====
Eschewing obfuscation.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 20:35, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. (Too funny : ) - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 00:24, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' as to which the nominator has determined through the process. This idiosyncratic phrase transcends all manifestiously possible standards of dubious elitist manipulation and unnecessary overimplied and overstated categorization..--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] 02:13, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
**Indubitably.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 04:12, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' - There is value in simplicity. —[[User:Cswrye|Cswrye]] 07:15, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
====Anime categories====
'''rename''':
*[[:category:User anime-1]] to [[:category:Wikipedians who like anime]]
*[[:category:User anime-2]] to [[:category:Wikipedians who like anime]]
*[[:category:User anime-3]] to [[:category:Wikipedians who like anime]]
*[[:category:User anime-4]] to [[:category:Wikipedians who like anime]]
*[[:category:User anime-N]] to [[:category:Wikipedians who like anime]]
and '''delete''':
*[[:category:User anime-0]]
This is a partial relist from [[Wikipedia:User categories for discussion/Archive/September 2006#Debabelization, part 1|this discussion]], trying to see if people support collapsing these categories into their base category. It's good to have the connection between people who might write about anime, but I think the babel system fails us here.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 19:56, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' 0-level category. - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 00:24, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' the rest per nom. - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 00:24, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
*Normally I'd keep, but I'm not a big fan of anime. Therefore, '''rename''' per nom. '''Delete''' 0-level category.--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] 02:21, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' "-0" category and '''rename''' other categories - Again, I don't think there's a reason to categorize by level of interest. —[[User:Cswrye|Cswrye]] 07:15, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
====Pilot categories====
'''rename''':
*[[:category:Pilot-1 users]] to [[:category:Wikipedian pilot students]]
*[[:category:Pilot-2 users]] to [[:category:Wikipedian pilot students]]
*[[:category:Pilot-3 users]] to [[:category:Wikipedian pilots]]
*[[:category:Pilot-4 users]] to [[:category:Wikipedian pilots]]
*[[:category:Pilot-5 users]] to [[:category:Wikipedian pilots]]
*[[:category:Pilot-N users]] to [[:category:Wikipedian pilots]]
and '''delete''':
*[[:category:Pilot-0 users]]
Similar to the one above. This is a profession, and no other profession (except musical instruments) has this kind of babel scheme.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 19:56, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' 0-level category. - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 00:24, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' [[:category:Pilot-5 users]] to [[:category:Wikipedian commercial airline pilots]], a subcat of [[:category:Wikipedian pilots]] - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 00:24, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' [[:category:Pilot-4 users]] to [[:category:Wikipedian instrument-rated pilots]]. a subcat of [[:category:Wikipedian pilots]] - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 00:24, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' the rest per nom. - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 00:24, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
**I don't know enough about piloting to know the difference between instrument-rated and commercial, but I have no objection to that change.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 04:12, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Weak keep''' for method of organization of pilots. Although, would be better suited in a sister project (Airplanepilotopedia?) '''Delete''' 0-level category as non-all-inclusive.--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] 02:23, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' "-0" category and '''rename''' other categories - I don't think that the "-x" structure is very meaningful for most user categories. It makes more sense just to describe what they are. I don't object to [[User:Jc37|jc37]]'s recommendations, but I don't know enough about piloting to be able to evaluate them. —[[User:Cswrye|Cswrye]] 07:15, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
:* See: [[Pilot licensing and certification]]. An instrument certified pilot can fly a plane without use of windows/vision. It's also a different certification. Commercial airline pilots are quite different than general pilots. However, I don't think we need to differentiate between the regular commercial pilots and private pilots. If ever we have military, or space pilots listed, I would suggest that they too have a separate category. - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 20:13, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
====Gamer categories====
'''rename''':
*[[:category:User cvg-1]] to [[:category:Wikipedians who play computer and video games]]
*[[:category:User cvg-2]] to [[:category:Wikipedians who play computer and video games]]
*[[:category:User cvg-3]] to [[:category:Wikipedians who play computer and video games]]
*[[:category:User cvg-4]] to [[:category:Wikipedians who play computer and video games]]
*[[:category:User cvg-5]] to [[:category:Wikipedians who play computer and video games]]
*[[:category:User cvg-N]] to [[:category:Wikipedians who play computer and video games]]
and '''delete''':
*[[:category:User cvg-0]]
Similar to the two above. It's a hobby, and thus the babel scheme is unnecessary. It's good to have the connection to other people who like (and thus might write about) games, but not this gradation.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 19:56, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' Practical measurement of comparison from people who work for most of their life from people who play. See [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek_Code Geek Code]--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] 20:20, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
**No other category of "people who play" has this kind of subdivision, except musical instruments.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 20:50, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' as proposed. I don't see the need for a comparison between workers and players. <span style="font-family:serif;">—[[User:Ptkfgs|ptk]]✰[[User_talk:Ptkfgs|fgs]]</span> 20:27, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
**Yeah, I guess I don't either. I '''amended''' it to be the same as the rest. (Note to those reading it now: I originally had it as "Wikipedian professional computer and video game players".)--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 20:48, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' 0-level category. - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 00:24, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' the rest per nom. And I agree with the "professional" removal (especially since I suggested that last time : ) - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 00:24, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' "-0" category and '''rename''' other categories - I think that this was a carryover from the language categories, which use the same structure. It was set up for a few hobby categories, but not very many. Most user categories don't use this structure, and I don't think there's any value in doing so either. The only distinction that I think might be of value is a separation of recreational cvg players and professional cvg players (the latter might go under [[:Category:Wikipedians by profession]]). Other than that, editors are editors regardless of their video gaming skills. —[[User:Cswrye|Cswrye]] 07:15, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' per WaltClip. [[User:CyberSkull|Dread Lord CyberSkull]] [[User talk:CyberSkull|✎☠]] 09:48, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
* <span style="font-size: smaller;">Note: This debate has been added to the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Computer and video games/Deletion|list of CVG deletions]]. [[User:CyberSkull|Dread Lord CyberSkull]] [[User talk:CyberSkull|✎☠]] 09:48, 15 October 2006 (UTC)</span>
====[[:Category:Wikipedians who do not use Internet Explorer]]====
Added due to creation of this category during the following discussion. Please comment in the following nomination.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 04:19, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
====[[:Category:Wikipedians who hate Internet Explorer]]====
Per deletion of previous anti-IE categories. Looks like we're going to have to salt some of these.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 19:48, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Fresh, strong, speedy delete***--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] 20:21, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
*<font color=red>What's wrong with any anti-IE page? People hate IE! That's a fact. People have become very fed-up with it in the past several years. Why can't Wikipedians express their dislike for it? I don't even understand the issue. Are you being paid off by M$ or something?</font> -[[User:KingpinE7|<b><font color="green">'''Kingpin'''</font><font color="purple">'''E7'''</font></b>]]
*'''Delete''' - actually, we'll delete a template that expresses any kind of "hate", and we're not being paid off by ''everyone''. We're here to write an encyclopedia, not to wave hate-flags, it turns out. -[[User:GTBacchus|GTBacchus]]<sup>([[User talk:GTBacchus|talk]])</sup> 21:15, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
*Then, am I allowed to change the page to, say, <b>Wikipedians who <i>dislike</i> Internet Explorer</b>? -[[User:KingpinE7|<b><font color="green">'''Kingpin'''</font><font color="purple">'''E7'''</font></b>]]
**I'd rather you didn't. As you can see in the [[Wikipedia:User categories for discussion/Archives/September 2006|archives]], it's been a consensus to delete any categories that are purely about dislikes. There's no encyclopedic purpose to linking up over article topics you can't abide.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 22:07, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
***<exasperated>How about <b>Wikipedians who <i>do not use</i> Internet Explorer</b> ?</exasperated> -[[User:KingpinE7|<b><font color="green">'''Kingpin'''</font><font color="purple">'''E7'''</font></b>]]
****Sorry, that's not likely to get a keep consensus here either. It's less about expression than it is about utility. Most people on this board are in favor of people creating categories that allow users to link over positive things they might have in common, but things they ''don't'' use aren't among them. There are many things people don't use, for many reasons.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 22:35, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
*****However, a lot of Wikipedians do not use Internet Explorer. Can you think of anything I <i>can</i> change it to, though? -[[User:KingpinE7|<b><font color="green">'''Kingpin'''</font><font color="purple">'''E7'''</font></b>]]
******Not if you want to express a sentiment against a particular product.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 22:52, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
******* I wonder if we should differentiate between "does not like" (the "not" categories), and "does not use". Though "does not use", sounds like a "supporter/critic of x" category. Which, last I recall, is still under discussion whether allowable for Wikipedians. - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 00:24, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
******** '''Comment''' Would you have a Wikipedia user category that says '''Wikipedians who don't have a third arm'''? Of course not, because that counts for almost everyone. The "does not use" category is not all-inclusive, since most people do not tend to use the category even if they do not use Internet Explorer. No, we are not Microsoft slaves. In fact, I'd say more people are in support of Linux than for Microsoft.--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] 02:07, 15 October 2006 (UTC) By the way, I like Internet Explorer. :P Therefore, it is NOT a fact, and that therefore nullifies you claim.
********* I think the category should be deleted (not what KingpinE7 wants me to say!). I don't see any use in having the category.--[[User:Wj32|wj32]] 03:03, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete both'''. "who don't use" per WaltCip. If we started adding everything that everyone doesn't use, Wikipedia would grind to a halt. That and it's a big "so what", really. There is no need to group people by what you don't use. As for "who hate", no, no, and no. Categories like that serve one purpose: to divide people. We are here for one reason, and one reason only: to write an encyclopedia. Grouping people by what they hate does not help anyone do that. If you must express your dislike for MS or IE, put a little paragraph on your userpage, or even better, your own website. Not a category. --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 06:17, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete both''' - If you don't like IE, there's nothing wrong with saying so on your userpage, but what's the point in having a category for it? This doesn't help with editing the encyclopedia at all. —[[User:Cswrye|Cswrye]] 07:15, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
==October 11==
==== Category:Safari users ====
[[:Category:Safari users]] into [[:Category:Wikipedians who use Safari]]
*'''Merge''', since these two categories serve the same purpose, and "Wikipedians who use _____" is the proper style. A category with the "Safari users" name was actually renamed to the proper style about a month ago per [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_August_31#Wikipedians_by_website_and_software|an August 31 nomination]], but it was recreated just days later because there are ''still'' users of this category (at this moment, there are 34). '''[[User:Wcquidditch|<font color="red">WC</font>''<font color="#999933">Quidditch</font>'']]''' <big>[[User talk:Wcquidditch|<font color="red">☎</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Wcquidditch|<font color="#999933">✎</font>]]</big> 23:14, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' - I have moved this from [[WP:CFD]] --[[User:After Midnight|After Midnight]] <sup><small>[[User talk:After Midnight|0001]]</small></sup> 01:56, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename'''.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 04:51, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per proper style. --<font color="Gray">[[User:Gray Porpoise|Gray]]</font> <font color="Ultramarine">[[User talk:Gray Porpoise|Porpoise]]</font><sup>[[Phocoenidae]], not [[Delphinidae]]</sup> 10:58, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Merge/Rename''' per nom - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 00:24, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
====[[:Category:DC Wikipedians]]====
:'''''Rename''' to [[:Category:Wikipedians who listen to Destiny's Child]], convention of [[:Category:Wikipedians by musician]].'' -- <i>[[User:ProveIt|ProveIt]] <sup>[[User talk:ProveIt|(talk)]]</sup></i> 16:59, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:'''Speedy rename/merge'''--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] 02:34, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
*OK, I would not have seen that definition coming. '''Rename.'''--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 04:51, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Strong rename'''. --<font color="Gray">[[User:Gray Porpoise|Gray]]</font> <font color="Ultramarine">[[User talk:Gray Porpoise|Porpoise]]</font><sup>[[Phocoenidae]], not [[Delphinidae]]</sup> 10:59, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Speedy Rename''' - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 00:24, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
==October 7==
<div class="boilerplate metadata vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category above. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''
The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete'''.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 20:14, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
====Category:Wikipedians with current projects====
*'''Delete''' [[:Category:Wikipedians with current projects]]. This is just finishing what should have already been done already per: [[Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 September 6]]. Please read: [[User talk:Kbdank71/Archive7#Clarification]], for more information. - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 00:13, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 08:11, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''.--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] 20:33, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' - way too vague. --<font color="Gray">[[User:Gray Porpoise|Gray]]</font> <font color="Ultramarine">[[User talk:Gray Porpoise|Porpoise]]</font><sup>[[Phocoenidae]], not [[Delphinidae]]</sup> 01:16, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
====[[:category:Users supporting TRNC]] to [[:category:Wikipedians who support Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus recognition]]====
To match other categories of [[:category:wikipedians by politics]].--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 16:23, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Speedy Rename''' per nom - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 23:32, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', it's divisive and adds little of value to the encyclopedia. [[User:Steve block|Steve block]] <small>[[User talk:Steve block|Talk]]</small> 19:18, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', divisive. --[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] 00:14, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. --<font color="Gray">[[User:Gray Porpoise|Gray]]</font> <font color="Ultramarine">[[User talk:Gray Porpoise|Porpoise]]</font><sup>[[Phocoenidae]], not [[Delphinidae]]</sup> 01:17, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' divisive and inflamatory.--[[User:Konstable|Konst]].[[User talk:Konstable|able]] 05:54, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
<div class="boilerplate metadata vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category above. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''
The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''rename'''.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 20:14, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
====Wikipedian "adoptions"====
*[[:category:Users who have adopted]] to [[:category:Wikipedians who have adopted in Adopt-a-user]]
*[[:category:Users seeking adoption]] to [[:category:Wikipedians seeking adoption in Adopt-a-user]]
*[[:category:Users who have been adopted]] to [[:category:Wikipedians adopted in Adopt-a-user]]
*[[:category:Users adopted by Stevenfruitsmaak]] to [[:category:Wikipedians adopted in Adopt-a-user]]
*[[:category:Users adopted by Leon2323]] to [[:category:Wikipedians adopted in Adopt-a-user]]
*[[:category:All users involved with Adopt-a-User]] to [[:category:Wikipedians in Adopt-a-user]]
These have to change. I don't doubt the [[Wikipedia:Adopt-a-user]] program is useful, but it can't be confused with real adoption. Also, no categories about individual adoptors, please.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 16:17, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Strong rename all''' per nom. These definitely have the potential to be really confusing at first glance - indeed, I was confused myself until I saw the last couple of categories. --'''[[User:Coredesat|Core]][[User:Coredesat/Esperanza|<font color="green">des</font>]][[User:Coredesat|at]]''' ([[User talk:Coredesat|talk]]) 20:15, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Agree'''.--[[User:Stevenfruitsmaak|Steven Fruitsmaak]] <small>([[User_talk:Stevenfruitsmaak|Reply]])</small> 22:01, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 23:32, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. - [[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] 00:15, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. --<font color="Gray">[[User:Gray Porpoise|Gray]]</font> <font color="Ultramarine">[[User talk:Gray Porpoise|Porpoise]]</font><sup>[[Phocoenidae]], not [[Delphinidae]]</sup> 01:20, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom --[[User:Llama man|The Great Llama]]<sup>([[User talk:Llama man|speak to the Llama!]])</sup> 00:26, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
<div class="boilerplate metadata vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category above. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''
The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete'''.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 20:14, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
====[[:category:Users who do not exist]]====
Amusingly recursive, but automatically false.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 16:09, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity infinity].--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] 23:10, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
*<s>'''Create''' the existing category</s> : ) - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 23:32, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per nom. - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 23:32, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per nom. [[User:Evaunit511|Evaunit511]] 21:08, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', as long as the userbox continues to exist. --<font color="Gray">[[User:Gray Porpoise|Gray]]</font> <font color="Ultramarine">[[User talk:Gray Porpoise|Porpoise]]</font><sup>[[Phocoenidae]], not [[Delphinidae]]</sup> 11:00, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
<div class="boilerplate metadata vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category above. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''
The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''struck out''' by [[User:Kingboyk|Kingboyk]]. --'''[[User:Coredesat|Core]][[User:Coredesat/Esperanza|<font color="green">des</font>]][[User:Coredesat|at]]''' ([[User talk:Coredesat|talk]]) 00:42, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
==== [[:Category:Users who have never gotten to first base]]====
TMI.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 16:07, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' - apparently already deleted. - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 23:32, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
==== [[:Category:User +25000 edits]] to [[:Category:Wikipedians with over 25,000 edits]]====
To match rest of [[:category:Wikipedians by number of edits]].--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 15:53, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. --'''[[User:Coredesat|Core]][[User:Coredesat/Esperanza|<font color="green">des</font>]][[User:Coredesat|at]]''' ([[User talk:Coredesat|talk]]) 20:14, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 23:32, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' as uninformative and per Steve Block in MMORPG discussion.--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] 16:03, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' there is too much emphasis on quantity rather than quality on Wikipedia already. I don't believe this edit count is in any way informative of the users' contributions or efforts and just serves as a competitive MMORPG-like "score".--[[User:Konstable|Konst]].[[User talk:Konstable|able]] 19:37, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', editcountitis is bad, categorizing people with editcountitis is ''worse''. --[[User:Cyde|<font color="#ff66ff">'''Cyde Weys'''</font>]] 20:02, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per Cyde, and one could probably argue for the speedy deletion of [[Template:User 25 000e]] as a "divisive and inflammatory" template. --[[User:Mr. Lefty|'''Mr. Lefty''']] <small>([[User talk:Mr. Lefty|talk]])</small> 22:20, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
:*How did you come to that conclusion? - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 23:07, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
::*Simply because it basically divides users by number of edits, hence, "divisive." I've always hated editcountitis, and this just serves to further it. --[[User:Mr. Lefty|'''Mr. Lefty''']] <small>([[User talk:Mr. Lefty|talk]])</small> 19:20, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
:::*Ah. You don't see this as divisive, you see "editcountitis" as divisive, and see this as a way of promoting/furthering editcountitis. I understand the perspective. And while I don't necessarily disagree with your main view, I don't think that this userbox itself promotes division. Thank you for clarifying. - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 20:08, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename'''. Per nom. It's really not devisive. [[User talk:Alphachimp|'''Alphachimp''']] 01:48, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Side question'''. Just as a point of curiosity, how do people even know their own edit counts? Could the problem be that we have an encouragement built into the system there, rather than in the category system?--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 22:54, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
**Oh, now I see: [[Wikipedia:List_of_Wikipedians_by_number_of_edits]]. Woo-hoo, I'm number, um, 119! What a horrible thing. Well, I still don't think that's illegitimate, even if I find it obnoxious. I'll stick with my rename vote. Looks like it'll lock up as no concensus, which is kind of unfortunate given the naming convention of the category.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 19:25, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per Cyde. Is there a cure, by the way?—[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky)]] • ([[User talk:Ezhiki|yo?]]); 18:24, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
<div class="boilerplate metadata vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category above. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''
The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete and already emptied'''.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 14:13, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
==== Chinese Mandarin user categories ====
*[[:Category:User zh-beifang]] to [[:Category:User zh-cmn]]
*[[:Category:User zh-beifang-0]] to [[:Category:User zh-cmn-0]]
*[[:Category:User zh-beifang-1]] to [[:Category:User zh-cmn-1]]
*[[:Category:User zh-beifang-2]] to [[:Category:User zh-cmn-2]]
*[[:Category:User zh-beifang-3]] to [[:Category:User zh-cmn-3]]
*[[:Category:User zh-beifang-4]] to [[:Category:User zh-cmn-4]]
categories moved in accordance with the code used by [[RFC 3066]] and [[ISO 639-3]] --[[User talk:Sl|Hello World!]] 09:03, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
*These have already been emptied, so they can just be deleted now. '''Close and delete.'''--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 14:13, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom; '''Delete''' per MS : ) - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 23:32, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' old categories in favour of renaming. --<font color="Gray">[[User:Gray Porpoise|Gray]]</font> <font color="Ultramarine">[[User talk:Gray Porpoise|Porpoise]]</font><sup>[[Phocoenidae]], not [[Delphinidae]]</sup> 11:01, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
==October 6==
<div class="boilerplate metadata vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category above. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''
The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete both'''.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 14:13, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
====[[:Category:Wikipedians who oppose Montenegrin independence]]====
Added because of the following nomination. Please make comments about both in the next nomination.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 17:06, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
====[[:Category:Wikipedians who oppose Chechen independence]]====
*'''Delete''' Only 1 person in this category. Divisive, inflamatory and irrelevant. People are dying there, friends of my family members have already died there.--[[User:Konstable|Konst]].[[User talk:Konstable|able]] 11:15, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
*Normally I'd say leave it alone, but the user in this category is also the only user in [[:category:Wikipedians who oppose Montenegrin independence]]. This seems like a position that is hard to rally people around, unlike, say, [[:category:Wikipedians who oppose the Iraq War]]. So '''weak delete''' for this and the Montenegrin one.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 11:29, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
*It does seem a bit tasteless to have editors taking sides in a current armed conflict, and further to Mike's research I say '''weak delete''' too. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 14:02, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete both''' - I generally don't like "oppose" categories, and the fact that this one has only one member removes much of its value. —[[User:Cswrye|Cswrye]] 14:39, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Update''': I tagged and added the Montenegrin category above.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 17:05, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete both''' per nom, only one member. --'''[[User:Coredesat|Core]][[User:Coredesat/Esperanza|<font color="green">des</font>]][[User:Coredesat|at]]''' ([[User talk:Coredesat|talk]]) 20:36, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete both'''. Way divisive. Consider, would we want [[:Category:Wikipedians who oppose Irish unification]] or [[:Category:Wikipedians who support Texan independence]]? They add nothing to the Wikipedia, and this sort of information, if it really has to be done, and I'd suggest we guide that it shouldn't through [[Wikipedia:User page]]. What are we doing here, pledging allegiance to our favourite causes or building an encyclopedia? I don't mind swapping the odd story, but that's what conversations are for, not declarations. [[User:Steve block|Steve block]] <small>[[User talk:Steve block|Talk]]</small> 20:36, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete both''' per nom, and per [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_a_soapbox Wikipedia is not a soapbox] and '''suggest delete''' for [[:category:Wikipedians who oppose the Iraq War]].--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] 01:42, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' - staying neutral, per separate, unresolved discussions. - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 23:32, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete both'''.—[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky)]] • ([[User talk:Ezhiki|yo?]]); 18:22, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
<div class="boilerplate metadata vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category above. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''
The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''rename/delete per amended nomination'''.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 14:13, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
====Wikipedians by degree====
'''Rename''':
*[[:category:User degree/AA]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with AA degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/AAS]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with AAS degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/AAs]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with AAs degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/AS]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with AS degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/BA]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with BA degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/BAA]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with BAA degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/BBA]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with BBA degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/BCIS]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with BCIS degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/BCL]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with BCL degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/BCS]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with BCS degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/BE]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with BE degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/BEd]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with BEd degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/BFA]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with BFA degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/BL]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with BL degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/BM]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with BM degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/BMath]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with BMath degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/BMus]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with BMus degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/BS]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with BS degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/BSE]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with BSE degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/BSEE]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with BSEE degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/BSc]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with BSc degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/DC]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with DC degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/DDS]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with DDS degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/default]] to [[:category:Wikipedians by degree]]
*[[:category:User degree/EdD]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with EdD degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/HNC]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with HNC degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/HND]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with HND degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/JD]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with JD degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/LLB]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with LLB degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/law degree]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with law degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/LLM]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with LLM degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/MA]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with MA degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/MAcc]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with MAcc degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/MBA]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with MBA degrees]]
*[[:category:User MBA]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with MBA degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/MBBS]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with MBBS degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/MD]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with MD degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/MDiv]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with MDiv degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/MEd]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with MEd degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/MEng]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with MEng degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/MEnt]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with MEnt degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/MFA]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with MFA degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/MLIS]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with MLIS degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/MMath]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with MMath degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/MPA]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with MPA degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/MPhil]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with MPhil degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/MS]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with MS degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/MTheol]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with MTheol degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/MUP]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with MUP degrees]]
*[[:category:User degree/PGCE]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with PGCE certificates]]
*[[:category:Wikipedians with Ph.D. degrees]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with PhD degrees]]
*[[:category:Accountancy Wikipedians]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with accountancy designations]]
*[[:category:User CA]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with CA designations]]
*[[:category:User CFE]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with CFE designations]]
*[[:category:User CGA]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with CGA designations]]
*[[:category:User CMA]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with CMA designations]]
*[[:category:User CPA]] to [[:category:Wikipedians with CPA designations]]
and '''delete''':
*[[:category:User degree/minor]]
I combined some that were clearly the same degree. The majority of these have no periods in their abbreviations, so I suggest none of them should. I'm happy to add the periods if people want, though. As for value, I think these are extremely useful for finding a helpful someone in a field that covers an article you wish to write, and I don't think they're divisive.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 08:19, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename all''' per nom. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 11:23, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' ditto. --[[User:Christopher Sundita|Chris S.]] 14:00, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename all''' with a couple of suggestions (explained below). I agree with [[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] about the value of these categories. I know that many user categories have questionable usefulness, but I think that these have some of the most apparent value to the project. A person's academic credentials are a major factor relating to their knowledge about certain topics and their ability to edit them. This isn't to say that people without credentials are less about to write about topics, but academic degrees do provide an objective way to see where individuals' expertise may be. Now for my comments: 1) Personally, I like the periods in the abbreviations, but that's not a big deal. 2) I think that [[:Category:User degree/default]] should be merged into [[:Category:Wikipedians by degree]]. That way, people who don't want to specify what degree they have will just be in the parent category. Otherwise, I would say that it should be renamed to [[:Category:Wikipedians with unknown degrees]]. That seems to be consistent with other user category hierarchies where users don't specify what they are. 3) I would actually recommend deleting [[:Category:User degree/minor]]. I don't think it's possible to get a degree in a minor. The userbox simply says "This user has a minor in foo", and the category seems to exist only in response to the userbox. —[[User:Cswrye|Cswrye]] 14:39, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
**I '''amended''' 2 and 3.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 16:10, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename all''', the replacement names would make more sense. --'''[[User:Coredesat|Core]][[User:Coredesat/Esperanza|<font color="green">des</font>]][[User:Coredesat|at]]''' ([[User talk:Coredesat|talk]]) 20:36, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Agree with everything [[User:Cswrye|Cswrye]] says, but don't see how that makes the categorisation structure the best place to find a person's expertise. If I want to do that I go to their user page. [[User:Steve block|Steve block]] <small>[[User talk:Steve block|Talk]]</small> 20:38, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
**'''Comment''' - That's understandable, and I agree that categories shouldn't be used to just display information that could just as easily be mentioned on the user page. However, that requires you to already know about the user so you can get to their page. User categories have the advantage of helping you ''find'' users with a particular expertise when you might not otherwise know that the user even exists. —[[User:Cswrye|Cswrye]] 02:42, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per Steve block.--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] 01:42, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
*''Rename most'''. I think most should be renamed, if the qualifications are degrees, but I know some aren't technically degrees. The PGCE for example, is not one I'd consider a degree. It is technically a postgrad certificate qualification. I think it would be odd to categorise this as a degree. There are probably others on the list which are technically not degrees too. Also, could 'BSc' be changed to 'BSc degree' and not 'BS degree', which it currently says in the list. Thanks [[User:Evil Eye|Evil Eye]] 11:08, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
**'''Comment''' - Yes, I agree with that. I think most WikiPedians would take 'BS degree' the wrong way.--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] 13:27, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
***I '''amended''' PGCE and BS. (I've certainly seen BS used as the abbreviation more in the US, tho.) Let me know if there are others you think should be changed.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 15:41, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename all''' with the following exception: AAs should be renamed to AAS, per [[Associate's degree]] and [[Template:Academic degrees]]. - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 23:32, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
**You're right. They looked different to me, but the article explains they're the same. I '''amended''' that one.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 06:01, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''No objection''' to rename in general. However, I oppose the category merges without more consideration. For example, as can be seen from the templates, AAS and AAs are different degrees. Note again that most are populated from the template {{tl|User degree/*}}. (The question of whether that template should populate categories is a separate, related question.) — [[User:Arthur Rubin|Arthur Rubin]] | [[User_talk:Arthur_Rubin|(talk)]] 18:28, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
**I think that I agree with this. For example, even though "BS" and "BSc" both stand for "Bachelor of Science", there may be differences between the degress that merit separate categorization. Also, someone who received a BS (which I'm pretty sure is more common in the United States) may not want to be categorized under a different abbreviation. I'm of the (not very strong) opinion that different abbreviations should be categorized differently. (I'm starting to reconsider whether we should use abbreviations for these at all since that would do away with this problem completely, but I'm not there yet.) As for the userbox, I believe that userboxes should be designed to accomodate user categories, not the other way around. —[[User:Cswrye|Cswrye]] 21:11, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
***This is all reasonable to me. I '''amended''' all the merges to their original listing, and then if later anyone wants to try to merge them, that's fine.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 22:50, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename all'''.—[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky)]] • ([[User talk:Ezhiki|yo?]]); 18:26, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename all''' per above. --<font color="Gray">[[User:Gray Porpoise|Gray]]</font> <font color="Ultramarine">[[User talk:Gray Porpoise|Porpoise]]</font><sup>[[Phocoenidae]], not [[Delphinidae]]</sup> 01:19, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
==October 4==
<div class="boilerplate metadata vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category above. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''
The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete "Massively," but no consensus on "massively"'''.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 14:13, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
====[[:category:Wikipedians who play Massively multiplayer online games]] to [[:category:Wikipedians who play massively multiplayer online games]]====
Moved from speedy due to discussions.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 08:33, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
:*I think in this case, the abbreviation should be used, since it could be considered the more common usage (and is the name of the associated article). See [[MMORPG]]. Thus: [[:category:Wikipedians who play MMORPG]] - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 21:09, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
::*Only one problem with that: there's no indication these are RPGs. There are lots of other types of MMOGs than RPGs, and the MMOG abbreviation is not as well known.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 22:02, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
:::* Except that every entry under [[:Category:Wikipedians who play massively multiplayer online games]] ''is'' an MMORPG. I also (finally) found the source of the first category: {{tl|User Planetside}} see [[Planetside]], which is [[Massively multiplayer online first-person shooter]] (which says that that is a sub-group of MMORPG). I gave it its own sub-category under [[:category:Wikipedians who play massively multiplayer online games]], which emptied the proposed rename category. You can probably propose '''Speedy Delete'''. And I suggest '''Speedy rename''' - [[:category:Wikipedians who play massively multiplayer online games]] to [[:category:Wikipedians who play MMORPG]].
::::*Yeah, I've seen Planetside, and it's no RPG. If you took out the MMO part, would you think "First-person shooter" is a subcategory of "Roleplaying game"? I don't. (Plus, the abbreviation is really clunky. It should at least be "MMORPGs.")--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 00:41, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
:::::According to the [[Massively multiplayer online first-person shooter|article]]. MMOFPSs ''are'' MMORPGs. Which makes sense, you're pretending that ''you'' are the shooter. No opinion on whether it should have a "s" at the end in the cat name. - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 01:07, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
::::::OK, tag the main category and we'll have a discussion about it.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 13:58, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
:My preference would be to delete the entire [[:Category:Wikipedians who play computer and video games]] tree. There's a gaming WikiProject already, and they probably have a participants list or category/categories. This is redundant to that and has no additional enyclopedic or community benefit. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 11:25, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
::Yikes, no. This is way too broad a group of users to expect to see in a WikiProject group. These preference categories are fine by me when they pertain to things lots of folks actually write about, like games.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 11:32, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Agree with Mike. We may as well delete [[:Category:Wikipedians interested in games]] if we do that. Probably not a very popular idea, even if most of us are scholarly anti-technology literaturists.--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] 03:14, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' to [[:Category:Wikipedians who play massively multiplayer online games]]. Even if this category currently contained only MMORPGs, I don't think it should be limited to including other types on MMOGs in the future. Also, the article for [[massively multiplayer online first-person shooter]]s doesn't say that they are MMORPGs. It says that they are also known as MMOFPRPSGs, which, in my opinion, are not the same thing as MMORPGs. "MMOGs" seems to be the most general name since it encompasses everything. Maybe we can create subcategories for each subgenre of MMOGs. —[[User:Cswrye|Cswrye]] 14:54, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
:* While I disagree with saying "MMOFPRPSGs" are not "MMORPGs"; "Maybe we can create subcategories for each subgenre of MMOGs" sounds tolerable to me. - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 17:49, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. I'm sounding like a broken record, but why do I need a category to find all these people? Is Wikipedia a tool by which we find people who share the same interests as us or is it an encyclopedia? We have WikiProjects for shared interests which help build the Wikipedia. [[User:Steve block|Steve block]] <small>[[User talk:Steve block|Talk]]</small> 20:44, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
**'''Comment''' - I've thought about this issue before, and while I agree that WikiProjects are the best method for collaboration, I believe that user categories fill a void that WikiProjects do not. I'm willing to explain why if you want me to, but I'll warn you that my explanations tend to be rather lengthy. —[[User:Cswrye|Cswrye]] 02:46, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Who cares?—[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky)]] • ([[User talk:Ezhiki|yo?]]); 18:27, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
<div class="boilerplate metadata vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category above. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''
The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''already speedily deleted'''.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 14:13, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
====[[:category:Wikipedians whose user pages have been vandalized]]====
Recreation of deleted content.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 20:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Speedy Delete''' - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 21:09, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Speedy Delete'''--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] 00:45, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Speedy delete''' per nom. —[[User:Cswrye|Cswrye]] 21:26, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
<div class="boilerplate metadata vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category above. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''
The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''rename'''.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 14:13, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
====[[:category:Wikipedians who are fans of Red vs Blue]] to [[:category:Wikipedians who like Red vs. Blue]]====
To match current category.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 20:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 21:09, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom and for brevity.--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] 00:45, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom. —[[User:Cswrye|Cswrye]] 21:26, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
<div class="boilerplate metadata vfd" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category above. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''
The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''deleted and salted''' by [[User:Kbdank71]].--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 14:13, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
====Wikipedian authors====
*[[:category:Wikipedian authors of deleted articles]]
*[[:category:Wikipedian authors of featured articles]]
*[[:category:Wikipedian authors of featured pictures]]
We recently decided these were a bad idea. These seem to have been created since, so they should be deleted.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 20:43, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per nom and previous concerns of [[WP:OWN]]. - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 21:09, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per jc37.--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] 00:42, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
*Deleted, and protected. Can someone empty out the featured articles cat for me, I don't have time tonight. Thanks. --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 02:24, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
*WP:OWN doesn't apply. This is simply a badge of honour. (WP:OWN is concerned with not treating an article as exclusively one's own; it doesn't mean authors can't claim credit (a right under the GFDL) nor that they don't own the copyright in their work (they do)). However, a userbox is quite sufficient for boasting about an FA contribution so I have no objections. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 11:54, 5 October 2006 (UTC) (that was basically a '''delete''', by the way). --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 11:28, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' - I really don't care whether or not these exist, but the consensus on the last nomination was pretty clearly a delete. If it is possible to '''salt''' categories, doing so may be necessary to keep these from being created again. —[[User:Cswrye|Cswrye]] 21:26, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
**You mean prevent recreation? I don't know if that's possible. They could probably be protected as regular pages are, but these aren't particularly troublesome categories really. ''If'' they get ''regularly'' recreated by ''different'' folks it might just be that the measure of "consensus" here, on this little outpost of Wikipedia, is simply wrong. Let's wait and see, I don't think action is needed just yet. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 11:28, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
***That's already been done (check the cats). They've already been recreated, that's why I protected them. --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:09, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category above. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''
The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete'''.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 14:13, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
====[[:category:Wikipedians not using IE]]====
Per deletion of other anti-Internet Explorer category on September 24.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 20:32, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', information not best presented through the category structure. [[User:Steve block|Steve block]] <small>[[User talk:Steve block|Talk]]</small> 20:36, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' - the cat, not the userbox/userpage info. - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 21:09, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per the discussion on the other IE category. —[[User:Cswrye|Cswrye]] 21:26, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. We ought to be able to speedy these substantially the same cats I think. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 11:22, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Speedy delete''' per Cswrye.--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] 01:45, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', if users want to express that they don't use Internet Explorer, they can do it other ways. --<font color="Gray">[[User:Gray Porpoise|Gray]]</font> <font color="Ultramarine">[[User talk:Gray Porpoise|Porpoise]]</font><sup>[[Phocoenidae]], not [[Delphinidae]]</sup> 20:34, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category above. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''
The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''already deleted''' by [[User:Kingboyk|Kingboyk]]. --'''[[User:Coredesat|Core]][[User:Coredesat/Esperanza|<font color="green">des</font>]][[User:Coredesat|at]]''' ([[User talk:Coredesat|talk]]) 20:39, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
====[[:category:Wikipedians who love Swedish Fish]]====
Per deletion of other Swedish fish category on September 10.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 20:32, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', information not best presented through the category structure. [[User:Steve block|Steve block]] <small>[[User talk:Steve block|Talk]]</small> 20:36, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' - the cat, not the userbox/userpage info. - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 21:09, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
*I've deleted this based on the mass deletion of "Wikipedians who eat..." categories (and acceptance of that closure at DRV). Community consensus shows these categories are not useful and are unwelcome. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 21:12, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category above. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''
The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''rename'''.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 14:13, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
====Wikipedians who use MSN Messenger====
*[[:category:CPNN users who use MSN Messenger]] to [[:category:Wikipedians who use MSN Messenger]]
*[[:category:Wikipedians using MSN Messenger]] to [[:category:Wikipedians who use MSN Messenger]]
Not sure what's going on with this category (the template gained some new categories, which I removed in probable ignorance), but the new versions should clearly be renamed.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 07:26, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
* '''Rename''' per nom.--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] 13:14, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
* '''Rename''' per nom. I don't know about the CPNN one (since there are no current members) but the latter one seem to be from self-adding to the cat (rather than being a simple userbox fix). - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 16:07, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', information not best presented through the category structure. [[User:Steve block|Steve block]] <small>[[User talk:Steve block|Talk]]</small> 20:36, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
**'''Comment''', Steve, nominator said rename, not delete.--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] 20:39, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
***That doesn't invalidate my thoughts on the issue. Categories are brought here for discussion. The nomination doesn't control the shape of the discussion. [[User:Steve block|Steve block]] <small>[[User talk:Steve block|Talk]]</small> 20:49, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
****Correct. It's not unusual for a "rename" discussion to end in deletion. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 21:15, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename'''. Might consider deletion if the entire [[:Category:Wikipedians by instant messenger]] is presented, but it would be arbitrary to just delete MSN. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 21:15, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' - It's perfectly acceptable to discuss deletions on a rename nomination, but I agree with [[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] in that I don't like to arbitrarily delete certain categories just because they are nominated when many similar unnominated categories exist. —[[User:Cswrye|Cswrye]] 21:26, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. If you would want to delete if others were nominated, then say delete and nominate the others. Don't keep something around simply because something else isn't nominated. Talk to the merits of '''this''' category, not others. --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 23:37, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
**No, I'll make my case based on my own standards, and the closer can decide if I'm right or wrong when determining consensus :) This isn't a divisive category and although it's a bit trivial it's not a blatantly bad offender. As such, my opinion remains let it stay with a suitable name until we decide whether to be rid of the entire group or not. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 11:21, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
**I ''suppose'' (through clenched teeth) I might be persuaded to group list all of them today, if folks want them gone? --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 11:30, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
***Not me. I'll be one solitary vote for keeping them all. Software is very germane to what we do here.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 11:33, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
****How so? How is this germane, that someone uses MSN Messenger? [[User:Steve block|Steve block]] <small>[[User talk:Steve block|Talk]]</small> 20:46, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
*****It means that it's likely that they know the "ins and outs" of the topic (MSN Messenger in this case). So they are more likely to know where to look for references about the topic, may be more aware of things like commercials, roll outs, and other media presentations; issues about bugs, versions and the like, and knowing where to look for supportive citations. (What good is it to know where to look, if you have no idea what to look for?) And something like this won't necessarily have it's own WikiProject. So yes, I think that these categories can be useful for collaboration. - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 01:09, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
******What jc said.--[[User:Mike Selinker|Mike Selinker]] 15:47, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
*******I don't see how that helps, to be honest. I would expect those people to already be watching the pages in question. No, I still would rather see these as deleted. [[User:Steve block|Steve block]] <small>[[User talk:Steve block|Talk]]</small> 19:22, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <font color=red>'''Please do not modify it.'''</font> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
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