Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dogs/Archive B4: Difference between revisions

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{{Talk archive}}

'''See also:''' [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dog breeds/Categories]]

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==Color of breed tables==

{{WikiProject Dogs}}

It has come to my attention that this WikiProject uses the same color as animals in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Tree of Life]] taxobox. I would like to suggest changing it (even to a different shade of pink) so that each color is used in only one table. Since there are undoubtedly many more animal tables than dog breed ones, it would be easier to change these than those. I will do the change myself if no one else wants to (though tell me what color you want, or I'll just pick one). See [[Wikipedia:Taxobox]]. [[User:TUF-KAT|Tuf-Kat]] 03:38, Feb 5, 2004 (UTC)

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'''Archives: '''[[/Archive 1|1]], [[/Archive 2|2]]&nbsp;&nbsp; '''See also:''' [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dogs/Dog breeds task force/Categories]]

== Northern Inuit ==

:That was a deliberate choice. mav suggested we use the same colour for dogs as animals in the Tree of Life project (dogs being animals an' all) and that seemed like a good idea. The discussion is on [[User talk:Maveric149/archive 10]]. We were originally using bright green and considered using 11 different colours, one for each FIC class and one for uncategorized. I don't particularly object to a change, although linking the colours did work well for [[Dingo]], where the taxobox and the breed infobox were linked up. What do you think? -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] 11:38, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I think the [[Northern Inuit dog]] page may need a bit of help. the disscusion page is getting a bit political and the article itself is looking a bit of a mess. Any help would be appreciated--[[User:Exhaustfumes|Exhaustfumes]] ([[User talk:Exhaustfumes|talk]]) 12:03, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I worked on it a bit. Still needs help, though--in particular, with good sources. Which, unfortunately, I'm thinking are going to be hard to find...[[User:Bryndel|Bryndel]] ([[User talk:Bryndel|talk]]) 09:51, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

::Well, I'm now inclined to think that the colors don't matter. There's already a lot of repetition, and that will likely only grow worse over time. [[User:TUF-KAT|Tuf-Kat]] 17:51, Feb 5, 2004 (UTC)

== Argentine Dogo ==

:::Then perhaps we can leave it as pink for now and see how things go. Let me know if you think differently as things progress over at [[Wikipedia talk:Taxobox|Wikipedia talk:Infobox]] ;) -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] 18:26, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Hello, it would be great if someone from this project takes a look at [[Argentine Dogo]]. Several IPs have been adding external links which in my opinion look like spam rather than useful links. As I'm no expert on dog websites, could someone with more knowledge check the page and delete all unnecessary websites? I'll keep an eye on the article thereafter to prevent links from being readded. BTW, I asked the same thing at Wikiproject Dogs. Greetings

==Sample dog article for projects project==

{{SampleWikiProject}}

== Capitalisation of breed names ==

:Anyone got a preferred article from [[List of dog breeds]]? I think it should be one with a photo, but other than that I'm easy - I'll have a look through some tomorrow to see what goodies we have. -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] 23:46, 18 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Please see/join the [[WT:MOS#Capitalisation of dog breed names|discussion]] at the Manual of Style. [[User:Phaunt|Phaunt]] ([[User talk:Phaunt|talk]]) 10:29, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

:[[Afghan Hound]] isn't bad although it's still a wee bit POV I think, but it does use the new thumbnail image format. [[Newfoundland]] is nice because it has more than one image and the text is a little better, but neither image uses the thumbnail format. [[User:Elf|Elf]] 03:34, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

:I found this - [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Archive (capitalization)]] - but no discussion of capitalisation of dog breed names. Was there some consensus?--[[User:Hafwyn|Hafwyn]] ([[User talk:Hafwyn|talk]]) 16:51, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

::What about [[Alaskan Malamute]], it's short but covers all the points asked for by the WikiProject. It's also very neutral. I've changed the image to a the thumbnail format. If not, either of those you mentioned looks good -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 11:06, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

::In the article about [[Pit Bull]], [[User:The Blade of the Northern Lights]] changed the capitalization of dog breeds to lower case (twice after I reverted once). However, dog breeds are capitalized (first letter of each word) everywhere else in Wikipedia. Please give your input here and/or at [[Talk:Pit Bull#Capitalization of dog breed]]. [[User:AndreasJS|<span style="color:white;background:blue;">&nbsp;Andreas&nbsp;</span>]] ^{<span style="font-size: x-small;">[[User talk:AndreasJS|(T)]]</span>} 13:06, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

:::That works for me. [[User:Elf|Elf]] 20:28, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

:::I can't find any WP policy on this, but as far as I can see formal breed names of all domesticated animals are nearly always capitalised here and elsewhere (and I speak as someone usually on the lower-case-initials side of these arguments). Conversely ''types'' of dog (or other domestic animals) are not generally capitalised ([[retriever]], [[terrier]], [[sighthound]], [[northern European short-tailed sheep]], [[dairy cattle]] etc). The article states that "pit bull" is "a term commonly used to describe several breeds of dog...". That sounds like a type and so I would not capitalise it; however the other names mentioned in the article are formal breed names and those ought to be capitalised.

::::Done -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 00:06, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

:::See also my and The Blade of the Northern Lights's comments at [[Talk:Cardigan Welsh Corgi#Decapitalization]], and the discussion mentioned above by Phaunt, now archived at [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Archive 94#Capitalisation of dog breed names]]. [[User:Richard New Forest|Richard New Forest]] ([[User talk:Richard New Forest|talk]]) 19:26, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

:::::Just noticed that it doesn't use the new table markup but instead uses HTML tbl markup. Ditto with the template on this project's meta page. Which way to we want to go? Your latest sample in your sandbox uses the new markup, and that's what I've been assuming we'd go with--? [[User:Elf|Elf]] 17:52, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

[[User:The Blade of the Northern Lights]] has decapitalized breednames in several of aricles, but did not tuch the article titles themselves. Given the endless discussions about this issue something more decisive will have to be done to build a consensus here. The same arguments have been put forward for other animal-related topics, in particular birds. In my opinion, a guideline is needed and an organized mechanism for achieving a consensus on the guideline. [[User:AndreasJS|<span style="color:white;background:blue;">&nbsp;Andreas&nbsp;</span>]] ^{<span style="font-size: x-small;">[[User talk:AndreasJS|(T)]]</span>} 00:05, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

== [[Pit Bull]] and tomberto. ==

::::Yes, I think we should change over - it's purely a matter of getting round to it. I think that's what I'll work on this evening, I've only got an hour or so though so won't get that far tonight. I'll do the template and Alaskan Malamute first then see how far I get down the list, feel free to do any you want to of course. -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 18:51, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

At various times people have added a reference to tomberto to the pit bull article. This word only shows up 302 times on Google, the results including many copies of Wikipedia and stuff in Spanish I don't understand. Is there such a thing as a Tomberto or are we being vandalised?--[[User:Peter cohen|Peter cohen]] ([[User talk:Peter cohen|talk]]) 15:46, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

== Westminster WikiNews ==

==More than just dog breeds==

There have been discussions in other areas about having main category pages that provide an index into related articles. While trying to find something earlier, I was thinking that an index/category page of dog-related articles would be a good thing to have. (We'd reference [[List of dog breeds]] in that index, not the individual breed pages.) It could have subcategories like descriptions, activities, history, biology, sociology (I dunno, what would you call [[Dog adoption]], [[animal shelter]], and the like?). Does anyone know if such a thing exists? If not, who understands Wikipedia well enough to suggest an appropriate title and/or a sample index page from some other topic area? [[User:Elf|Elf]] 03:30, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Hi! I'm not a member of this project, and in fact don't even own a dog. But I ''am'' interested (and quite involved) in the whole wiki concept. So I was wondering if anyone from this project might be interested in reporting on WikiNews about the Westminster Dog Show, which is coming up in a couple weeks. If you are, head on over to [[n:Wikinews:Story preparation/132nd Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show|the article prep page]] I started, leave a note on the talk page, and let's see what happens! -- <span style="background: #EECCFF;">[[User:SatyrTN|SatyrTN]] <small>([[User talk:SatyrTN|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/SatyrTN|contribs]])</small></span> 23:56, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, I found [[List of biology topics]], but it's so huge they've arranged it alphabetically rather than by category. [[List of production topics]] is by category. [[User:Elf|Elf]] 05:14, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

== Coolie/Koolie ==

:OK, being the impatient sort, I'm already answering my own question and starting [[List of dog topics]]. :-) [[User:Elf|Elf]] 05:38, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC) Whew! Did a google search on everything with the word "dog" in it; gave up after the references started to be few & far between. And, as usual, google list is out of date, so more recent entries didn't show up. Suggestions, additions, organization welcome. [[User:Elf|Elf]] 06:10, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

[[Koolie]] and [[German Coolie]] appear to be about the same breed of dog - and they appear to be primarily a POV fork based on some breeders holding higher/different standards. I don't know anything about the dogs, but I was confused trying to do some research. I left a note at WP:DOGS but there's been no reply; can someone take a look at that, please? [[User:Kuronue|Kuronue]] | [[User talk:Kuronue|Talk]] 04:07, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Looks good! I can think of a couple of additions, although it looks pretty comprehensive, I'll add some later -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 11:06, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

:Confusion's just one result of the combination of human behaviour and the near-infinite variability of the dog. Anyone can create a dog breed, and find a registry that will take their money to register it -- or just start their own registry on the internet. It's like words in English -- you just say it, and it's a word. There's no governing body to say what words you can and cannot make up. Similarly, anyone can create a breed of dogs just by calling it one, inbreeding it, and creating their own registry. Internet forums are full of people wanting to start their own pet-registry business, so they can charge for certificates to enhance the value of puppy-mill dogs, or register their own invented breeds. Everyone loves to have their own "special" club to control.

:In addition, creating a breed out of another breed means the breed creator doesn't have to follow the rules laid down by the original club (see the [[Biewer|Biewer Terrier]] for a good example; when the kennel club wouldn't register his pretty mismarked dogs in the 1980s, the breeder just found to a registry that would, and named the "new breed" after himself. Today it IS a breed, with clubs in several countries.) When a new breed "breeds true" (reproduces with consistent appearance and behaviour) and has been reliably documented for a number of generations, then it's a breed, by definition.

:Heh! That "couple" I mentioned - you already found them. Good work -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 00:08, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

:The Koolie/Coolie page seems to be better written than the German Coolie page, but that does not make it more authoritative. You could research the registries mentioned and note which ones seem to be reputable (non-profit, widely used, member of governing body, etc.)

:Dang! You mean I could've taken the afternoon off? [[User:Elf|Elf]] 00:20, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

:If the breed seems to be bred, registered and promoted by one person, that should probably be noted. --[[User:Hafwyn|Hafwyn]] ([[User talk:Hafwyn|talk]]) 14:22, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

==Review Spaniel article==

For anyone interested, I just put up an article on [[Spaniel]]s that gives some background on what a spaniel is and then lists breeds that are probably classifiable as Spaniels. If anyone knows more about what makes a spaniel and what doesn't (and it's not just whethe the name includes the word "spaniel" ;-) ), I'd be delighted if you'd review the article and even add more info. [[User:Elf|Elf]] 17:42, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)

== RequestSomething foryou photoshould all see ==

Hi dog lovers. Tonight I watched a very interesting TV programme - [[http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=pedigree+dogs+exposed&btnG=Search&meta=|pedigree dogs exposed]]. It is currently available on the BBC iplayer. Essentially the programme details the way in which selective breeding in dogs, and especially the kennel club, have created vast numbers of severely inbred dogs who are mentally retarded and physically disabled, and who live pain-filled and often short lives. I confess I know nothing about dogs, and presume these issues have been discussed somewhat on pages within WikiProject Dogs. However this really is a very good, eye opening programme, and I would encourage all of you to watch it, and more importantly add information from it to any relevant articles. Cheers, [[User:Willy turner|Willy turner]] ([[User talk:Willy turner|talk]]) 21:10, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi, can we have a photo of a couple of different dogs of different breeds together to put onto [[artificial selection]] please? preferably one big one and one little fluffy one? [[User:Duncharris|Duncharris]] 15:12, May 6, 2004 (UTC)

:I'll see whether I can arrange that some weekend while I'm surrounded by canine-type beast things. Mostly I do [[dog agility]], which doesn't work well for really big breeds, so largest I'm likely to see are [[German Shepherd Dog]]s or maybe a [[Briard]]. Other challenge is that dogs who don't know each other might not want to stand comfortably next to each other for a photo, and most dog owners tend to have only large or only small dogs. I might be able to get a [[Border Collie]] and a [[Jack Russell Terrier]] together. [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 00:59, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

::And then after that, please look at [http://rufflyspeaking.wordpress.com/2008/10/19/implications-of-the-kennel-club-decision-on-the-pekingese-pedigree-dogs-exposed Implications of the Kennel Club decision on the Pekingese: Pedigree Dogs Exposed] for a deeper look at the situation, including factual descriptions and the way the material was manipulated for a sensational TV show. To comply with [[WP:NPOV]], also "more importantly add information from it to any relevant articles".--[[User:Hafwyn|Hafwyn]] ([[User talk:Hafwyn|talk]]) 16:59, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

::I might have better luck if I go to a show this year - I'm not sure yet if I will, but if I do I'll look out for a good combination too. A similar photo that would be useful is the three types of poodle together, and other images of similar situations (and I want a pony...) -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 07:49, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

:::But definitely not that site, it's a personal website (actually a blog) and can't be used. [[User:Dougweller|Doug Weller]] ([[User talk:Dougweller|talk]]) 20:25, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

== Policy on external links ==

:I just added [[:Image:IMG013biglittledogFX wb.jpg]]. [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 06:59, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Can people please take a look at this discussion [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:External_links#User_replacing_all_external_links_with_single_link_to_DMOZ_category.] about external links on dog breed pages? I agree with the suggestion that there should be clear guidelines from the project as to what external links are appropriate and what links should not be included. [[User:Dougweller|Doug Weller]] ([[User talk:Dougweller|talk]]) 15:27, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

::Excellent Elf, that really does the job -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 09:23, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

::Also discussed in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dogs; the solution may be use Template:Dmoz for groups of links. Why it is called "DMOZ" is not clear and how to use it is even less clear. I have no idea what the template does. Long lists of links must be submitted one at a time, and then wait to be reviewed (?) There does not appear to be a need for any "dog" editors. The whole thing is labyrinthine and exhausting. Any other ideas?--[[User:Hafwyn|Hafwyn]] ([[User talk:Hafwyn|talk]]) 22:43, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

== External Links ==

:Sorry, no pony, though. :-) Wish I had a photo--last year at Agility Camp, for the costume contest, one of the attendees said she was tired of people asking whether her Great Dane was some kind of pony, so she did a completely professional job of dressing the Dane *as* a pony--matching tail and mane and a litle saddle, and that's all it took! It was hysterical. And I don't often get hysterical-- [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 15:59, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC) Oh, wait--I found a photo online: [http://www.powerpawsagility.com/camp/pics/images/2.html Great Dane pony]!

Are kennel websites allowed in the external links for dog breed pages?.. or what about links to breeder directories?.. i had removed some links from some of the dog breed pages because i didn't think it was appropriate to have links to breeders websites..Is there a rule against this? i don't want to be removing them if it is allowed. Thanks --[[User:Ltshears|Ltshears]] ([[User talk:Ltshears|talk]]) 19:54, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

: Breeders' web sites are generally not appropriate links, no. In general, the only external links that should appear on dog breed pages are:

::Heh, wonderful -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 16:14, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

:* Official documents defining the breed standard (in the infobox, ideally)

:* Web pages which describe the breed, but only when no official standard is available.

:* Prominent groups associated with the breed, such as breed-specific rescues (''not'' individual breeders)

: Web sites such as dogbreedinfo.com should generally be avoided, as they're often substantially inaccurate and may contain POV assessments of the breed, which shouldn't make their way into our articles. [[User:Zetawoof|Zetawoof]]_{([[User_talk:Zetawoof|&zeta;]])} 20:28, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

::So should the breeders section be removed from this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entlebucher_Mountain_Dog

===Common Nickname===

Thanks you.. --[[User:Ltshears|Ltshears]] ([[User talk:Ltshears|talk]]) 17:02, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

I added a "Common nickname" section to the table. Seems that almost every breed has one or maybe 2 that dog people in-the-know would recognize but that outsiders wouldn't. Have been finding or putting many of those in the article. I think it belongs in the table. Thoughts? [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 20:09, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)

::Yes. Done.

:Looks good to me -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 21:49, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)

== Define and remove excess links ==

==Dog pages footer==

This would only apply to the External links section:

moved to [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dog breeds/Categories]] [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 03:46, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

*Remove from the '''External links''' section of breed articles all links to clubs (except perhaps for the original breed club in long established breeds for historical reasons.) New breeds that are still fighting about who is in charge put it all on DMOZ.

*No kennel links, that's advertising. Breed specific rescue groups, grooming tips links, and other information should also go on the DMOZ page.

=="No image yet" photo link==

My latest wiki discovery is this very-seldom-used page: [[Image:No image yet]]. It suggests (as does the [[Wikipedia:Requested pictures]] page) using a link to it from any page where we know a photo is wanted. This seems like it might be an excellent idea on the dog breed pages where there is no photo for the infobox. To see what it looks like, I implemented it at [[American Water Spaniel]]. It might encourage folks to provide photos. Thoughts? [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 16:37, 17 May 2004 (UTC)

*Other information that wouldn't be on the DMOZ page but would be of interest to readers of the article could be included in the External links -- an example might be a page on the genetics of an unusual coat colour or a link to historical photographs or information about the geography of the breed's original territory. Just not clubs and kennels.

:Sorry to sound discouraging again - but it just looks like a broken image to me. Maybe if it were some sort of image in itself? -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 18:09, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

*This would not stop anyone from using a good page as an in-line reference for information in the body of the article.

::i have uploaded sannse's idea: [[:Image:NO IMAGE YET.png]], [[Image:NO IMAGE YET.png]]. [[User:Badanedwa|Badanedwa]] 22:22, Jun 16, 2004 (UTC)

--[[User:Hafwyn|Hafwyn]] ([[User talk:Hafwyn|talk]]) 22:29, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

:::or this version, [[:Image:NO IMAGE YET square.png]], [[Image:NO IMAGE YET square.png]]. [[User:Badanedwa|Badanedwa]] 22:44, Jun 16, 2004 (UTC)

Oh, and the person wanting the link will have to figure out how to add it to DMOZ; that shouldn't be the job of the editor who removes the excess links.--[[User:Hafwyn|Hafwyn]] ([[User talk:Hafwyn|talk]]) 22:30, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

==Categories==

moved to [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dog breeds/Categories]] [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 03:46, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

== Outdated requested photos ==

== Help! Emergency! I've messed up the DOG article! ==

Hi guys! I originally went over to [[:Category:Wikipedia requested breed photographs]] in order to help find some images for articles. I actually ended up spending some time removing defunct {{tl|reqbreedphoto}}, some of which were placed over two years ago and had since had the requested images added. It's a crappy job, and i'm going to bed for the night, but i thought i would mention this to you in case there's anyone out there who likes this kind of tdious work. Enjoy! -[[User:Zappernapper|ΖαππερΝαππερ]] ^{[[User talk:Zappernapper|Babel]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Zappernapper|Alexandria]]} 07:52, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

I didn't mean to. I was edited the bottom section and adding to it and every time I tried to do a preview and save it kept freezing on me.

== Shih Tzu ==

Finally it worked, but to my horror my ammended section has REPLACE the entire article! Can somebody reverse this FAST? [[User:Quill|Quill]] 01:30, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The [[Shih Tzu]] article is in dire need of assistance at the moment. 5-6 different formats throughout, impromptu lists of facts, unsourced health information... I'm doing my best to keep it from getting worse (as I stated on the discussion page, too many fanciers, not enough experts), I simply don't have the time to take the article down and rewrite it (which is really what it needs). --<span style="color: #330033;">[[User:Kingoomieiii|<span style="color: #330033;">Kingoomieiii ♣</span>]] <span style="color: #ff6600;"><small><small>[[User talk:Kingoomieiii|<span style="color: #ff6600;">Talk</span>]]</small></small></span></span> 14:57, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

== Categories, Cont'd.... ==

:Article has been reorganised for ease of future editing, and now ''does'' need help from some serious fanciers, especially with the incomprehensible section contrasting the two kennel club variants. --[[User:Hafwyn|Hafwyn]] ([[User talk:Hafwyn|talk]]) 17:09, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

moved to [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dog breeds/Categories]] [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 03:46, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

== Crosses ==

== Kennel Club or 'kennel club' ==

There is a new template, [[Template:Infobox Dog crossbreed]], for use with articles about named crossbreeds (that are not breeds). Selections are basic -- the name, the photo, the breeds from which it came, and any other names. It is now on the [[Jug (dog)]] article (the article itself article is unsourced and most likely just someone's pet, and probably should be deleted, but it is an example.) Not intended for use with unrecognised breeds that are obviously becoming breeds, but rather for named deliberate crosses that have articles on Wikipedia.--[[User:Hafwyn|Hafwyn]] ([[User talk:Hafwyn|talk]]) 04:35, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

''BTW, you don't have to capitalize text that's linked unless it's a proper name; for example, dog breeding. Wikipedia automatically looks for a matching article whose first letter is capitalized. Pretty clever of them, huh?'' (Quote from a Wikipedian who shall remain nameless)

<pre>

*Yeah, I thought so, until I realized that ''titles'' of articles are case sensitive. Here's a for instance: for weeks I've been thinking that we had no article for 'kennel club' and we really need one. Have a few minutes, and I'm ready to write, and typed 'kennel club', lower case, which led to 'Kennel Club' (upper case), which is a 'disambig' page. Didn't remember seeing that before. Was about to start, but something was nagging at the back of my brain saying I was sure that links showed no kennel club article--don't get ahead of me, folks--you guessed it--the links in our articles go to 'kennel club', lower case. So...I'm going to put my stub at 'kennel club', because that's what I mean, and anyone with an objection or a better idea can move it...change it...etc. [[User:Quill|Quill]] 09:22, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

{{Infobox Dog crossbreed

|name =

|image =

|image_caption =

|breeds =

|altname =

<!-----Notes----->

|note =

}}

</pre>

:This has long since been merged into [[Template:Infobox dog breed]]. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] 😼 </span> 16:44, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

== [[Bandog]] ==

::It's a bit more complicated than that I'm afraid. The first word of a link to an article title is not case sensitive ([[This link]] and [[this link]] are the same) but further words are ([[This Link]] and [[This link]] are not the same). Article titles have to have first word capitalised, which is why the "iMac" article is at "IMAC", and the convention is to have other words in lower case unless it is a proper noun.

With above distinct crossbreed info in mind, could someone take a look at [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandog| this page]] and help clean it up? The "modern breed" section in particular is looking pretty confusingly hopeless. There seem to be two distinct "breeds" being muddled together in this article: one's the more generic original medieval dog type (guardian mastiffs of any sort as bandogges), and the other is examples of a mishmashed number of modern crossbreeds and mixes someone's apparently calling bandogs after the much older type. (The picture's caption, if you click on it, looks like a badly written ad--seems very inappropriate.) My impression is that it's in need of serious rewriting, and maybe even two separate pages, in order to clarify? What do you think?

::On the kennel club articles, I think the title you used is correct. The disambiguation article at "Kennel Club" refers to the organisation titles (and so properly capitalised) while your new article refers to the concept of kennel clubs. So if we are using the word as a title we capitalise both words: "This was agreed by the [[Kennel Club]] in 1872". And if the general concept then we don't: "Most [[kennel club]]s are privately funded". ''But'', in the first example we would always be better to link to the specific club article anyway. So it seems easier to make "Kennel Club" into a redirect to "Kennel club". So I've done so. Sorry to be so long-winded bout it though :) -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 12:37, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I'm not certain if this should be a subcategory to this or what; I'm still a Wikinewbie so please tell me and forgive me if this is in the wrong spot.

:::Thanks Sannse. Long-winded? Not a bit of it; take your time, I need it.... [[User:Quill|Quill]] 09:11, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[[User:Bryndel|Bryndel]] ([[User talk:Bryndel|talk]]) 05:49, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

== More[[Maltese about Categories(dog)]] ==

When some of you get a chance, could you drop by the Maltese talk page and add some input? There is a months-long edit war going on over the heritage/history of the dog (with nationalistic overtones) that has completely ruined any attempt at moving this article forward. I'm at the point where I wonder "how much is too much" with respect to the history of the dog. I'm of the opinion that not every minute detail needs to be added, especially since there isn't much substance to the rest of the article. [[User:Crotchety Old Man|Crotchety Old Man]] ([[User talk:Crotchety Old Man|talk]]) 13:08, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

moved to [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dog breeds/Categories]] [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 03:46, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

==Project Help needed==

== dog trouble ==

Hello my first Article and I have so far had some Help with members From Wiki.

In New Zealand there is a Breed of canine called the New Zealand Miniature Fox terrier.

It Has been in NZ for a very long period of time.

Where can I find people That can help me with this Project.

There is also a dog called the Miniature Fox Terrier In australia also called a Mini foxie.

This breed is totally differant to the NZ breed.

Their is currently a group in New Zealand support the NZ Miniature Fox Terrier and tring to trace history that as in photos etc.

Even Tho NZ knows the dog has been around for a long time no one has done proper history on the breed Untill the Group formed and decided to support this canine.

Any help would be great. The NZKC are also in support of this breed and feel the group needs to set up an offical society which they are now heading in that Direction regards NZMinifoxys 20:49, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

==[[Sheep dog]]==

Hi all--Wikipedia is behaving very strangely for me today.

I wonder if anyone here would like to have a look at [[Talk:Sheep dog#Content of article]]? I attempted to start a discussion there about turning the article (then a short intro and a list) into a dab, on the basis that "sheepdog" covers two very different types: [[herding dog]]s and [[livestock guardian dog]]s. I think those other articles already cover all the sheepdog breeds more appropriately &ndash; effectively making [[Sheep dog]] a duplicate article as well as being [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a dictionary|one article about two different things]]. I got no response to the proposal, so after a couple of months I implemented it &ndash; and the dab was then returned to an article by someone who'd not noticed the discussion (this change restored the intro but omitted the list of breeds). There have been few contributions to the discussion since, and it would be good to have other opinions. [[User:Richard New Forest|Richard New Forest]] ([[User talk:Richard New Forest|talk]]) 13:33, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

== Recommended article structure ==

For one thing, [[kennel club]] keeps taking me into the edit this page rather than the article.

Just wanted to add a note about the current Recommended article structure listed on the article page here. Specifically the part suggesting an article should have a miscellaneous section. This has come up quite a bit but certainly having such a section is going to be flagged up at GA and FA reviews as lists of miscellaneous details are really not meant to be in an article. I've seen more than one such section tagged with {{trivia}}. [[User:Miyagawa|<span style="font-family:Verdana;">Miyagawa</span>]] [[User talk:Miyagawa|<span style="font-family:Verdana;">(talk)</span>]] 17:08, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

I tried to add two new articles, and for some reason the system wasn't letting me do it; now 'my contributions' looks like I've added the same article three times.

==Unreferenced living people articles bot==

Do you see articles on [[conformation point]] and [[fault (dog)]]? I've also got one on [[breed standard]] but for now I'm giving up in frustration.

Thanks--{{User:DASHBot/Wikiprojects/welcome/first}} [[User:QuillOkip |QuillOkip ]] 00 02:3947, 928 JulMarch 20042010 (UTC)

== Article style: pronouns ==

:You must not have made your offerings to the proper wiki gods this morning! Indeed, I get articles for kennel club, conformationpoint, and fault (dog).[[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 03:52, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I've noticed that some articles use male pronouns (he, his etc) when refering to both sexes of the breed. I relise that this is common practice among kennel clubs and the like, but is this correct form for Wikipedia?

::Sigh--''[[The Gods Must Be Crazy|The Gods Must be CRAZY]]!! '' [[User:Quill|Quill]] 22:08, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

:Absolutely not; it shouldn't use either "he" or "she"- in an article about pugs, for instance, it should say either "A pug may require..." or "It may require..." The use of he and his is a colloquialism, but is not encyclopedic. [[User:The Blade of the Northern Lights|The Blade of the Northern Lights]] ([[User talk:The Blade of the Northern Lights|talk]]) 22:47, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

==[[Mountain dog]]==

:::Hey! I didn't link that title (above)--how did that happen?? This is getting Twilight Zone-ish!! [[User:Quill|Quill]] 23:22, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I created a new article, which is in form largely a disambiguation page. Please take a look and contribute. [[User:7&amp;6=thirteen|7&amp;6=thirteen]] ([[User talk:7&amp;6=thirteen|talk]]) 02:50, 6 December 2010 (UTC) Stan

==Capitalisation of names of breeds==

== Non-list lists ==

{{hatnote|A [[necroposting]] thread that jumped from 2003 to 2010.}}

moved to [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dog breeds/Categories]] [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 03:46, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I'm confused about the capitalisation of dog breeds. The book I have capitalises all words for some breeds (e.g. Great Dane), the first only for others (Karelian bear dog) and none for others (otterhound). Any idea how this should work? [[User:Sannse|sannse]] 08:31 Feb 15, 2003 (UTC)

:I think the breed name should at least have the first letter of the name capitalized, e.g. ''Otterhound'', but for cases like Karelian bear dog I think you need to look around at a couple sources and see if the ''bear dog'' part is a normative part of the name. If it is indeed normative, I say capitalize each word. [[User:Ogmios|matt]] 20:17 Feb 17, 2003 (UTC)

== Dog Registries ==

::The common names of animals are not capitalized unless they contain a proper noun. If the breed name includes a proper noun, like Dane, or a capitalised adjective, like German, then the words preceding it must be capitalised, but following words should not; Great Dane is the best example of that exceptiion. For example:

I noticed this while reviewing recent edits to the goldendoodle article. The United Kennel Club Int'l has been listed in the breed table.

::* German shepherd dog

::* Great Dane

::* pug

::* Labrador retriever

::* Cardigan Welsh corgi

::Although it is true that the sources spell it Cardigan Welsh Corgi, that is a [[colloquialism]] reserved for kennel clubs and dog enthusiasts, which are most of the sources. However, it is not encyclopedic; in encyclopedic writing, only proper nouns are capitalized. The word corgi is not a proper noun, so would not be. To draw a comparison, one would not write Whitetail Deer or Pug- it's whitetail deer and pug. (I am quoting [[User:The Blade of the Northern Lights|The Blade of the Northern Lights]].)

:::I must confess that Great Dane looks better to my eye, but consistency overrides. [[User:Ronstew|Ronstew]] ([[User talk:Ronstew|talk]]) 18:08, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

The Continental Kennel Club and the United Kennel Club Int'l are, at best, minor registries. The website of the CKC does not even describe its organization. According to the website of the UKCI, it is a private family business. I am therefore questioning the inclusion of minor registries in the breed tables. In essence, that would mean that the breed table points to an outside link to a small business, and I thought that Wikipedia didn't do that? This is not meant to cast aspersions, as there is nothing wrong with small family businesses, just to point out that as far as I can tell, our other outside links point to breed or kennel clubs.

[[User:Quill|Quill]] 00:23, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The above post was inappropriately substantively modified by {{u|172.164.28.246}}, 18:52, 20 July 2016 (UTC). The original is as follows:

:I was intending to ask your opinion on this Quill, so I'm glad you've raised the issue. I spent some time yesterday reading the UKCI website and various criticisms of them. It seems to me that these registries (and I refrain from adding quotes there) are more about advertising puppies than anything else. And links to such adverts are generally considered a bad thing on Wikipedia. Certainly I am not convinced they have a place in the table, even if they are the only registry available. I think we should stick to the breed and kennel clubs we have been using -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 16:46, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

{{block quote|1={{tq2|1=<nowiki />

::If the breed name includes a proper noun, like Dane, or a capitalised adjective, like German, then those words must be capitalised, but other words should not:

::* German shepherd dog

::* great Dane

::* pug

::* Labrador retriever

::* Cardigan Welsh corgi

::Although it is true that the sources spell it Cardigan Welsh Corgi, that is a [[colloquialism]] reserved for kennel clubs and dog enthusiasts, which are most of the sources. However, it is not encyclopedic; in encyclopedic writing, only proper nouns are capitalized. The word corgi is not a proper noun, so would not be. To draw a comparison, one would not write Whitetail Deer or Pug- it's whitetail deer and pug. (I am quoting [[User:The Blade of the Northern Lights|The Blade of the Northern Lights]].)

:::I must confess that Great Dane looks better to my eye, but consistency overrides. [[User:Ronstew|Ronstew]] ([[User talk:Ronstew|talk]]) 18:08, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

::It seems from recent edits at [[goldendoodle]] and [[terrier]] that we will probably need to discuss this and come to a consensus. Can we have some opinions from other project members? [[User:Quill|Quill]] 00:29, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

}}}}

<span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] 😼 </span> 17:25, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

::::The "Great" in Great Dane is used in the same sense as Great Britain, so it would be capitalized. However, that is an extremely rare exception; a more typical example would be a bloodhound, greyhound, Yorkshire terrier, or English bulldog. [[User:The Blade of the Northern Lights|The Blade of the Northern Lights]] ([[User talk:The Blade of the Northern Lights|talk]]) 22:44, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

: BTW, let's not confuse the United Kennel Club (UKC) [http://www.ukcdogs.com] with the Universal Kennel Club International (UKCI) [http://www.UniversalKennel.com]. The former is listed on the [[Kennel Club]] article, the latter is (rightfully) not. I mention this because you twice referred to the UKCI as "United Kennel Club Int'l".

::Yep, duly noted. [[User:Quill|Quill]] 23:45, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

:::::No, breed names are either capitalised consistently, or consistently not: neither convention is "correct". If they are not, then the "great" in "great Dane" is not, just as you might write "tall Englishman". (The "Great" in "Great Britain" is part of the proper name of the place; all words of these are always capitalised, except prepositions etc: eg "[[Mull of Kintyre]]". See [[Title_capitalization#Headings_and_publication_titles]].)

: I agree that the links to the CKC and UKCI should be removed (I suspect many of the UKCI "breeders" are puppy mills), but, if you think the larger, older kennel clubs aren't businesses, you're fooling yourselves <grin>.[[User:Wcrowe|Wcrowe]] 17:01, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

:::::In practice in Wikipedia (and in my experience in most other English writing) formal breed names are almost universally treated as proper nouns and are capitalised, and under that convention "Great Dane" is correct. On the other hand more general types are not: "there are several breeds of [[retriever]], including the Labrador, Curly-coated and Flat-coated". Common names of species are dealt with either way in WP, except for some groups such as birds which are always capitalised. There is no convention I know of where only the first word of a name is capitalised in running text. [[WP:CAPS]] deals with this general subject in some depth, although I can find no guidance about breed names in particular. [[User:Richard New Forest|Richard New Forest]] ([[User talk:Richard New Forest|talk]]) 09:40, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

::I don't think anyone here is so deluded. Some of us may even have issues with the major registries; I'll be the first one to say that I have. I just think that there are dog welfare components at work in the biggies that are missing from the johnnie-come-latelies. [[User:Quill|Quill]] 23:45, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

::::::Ah, that's what I was trying to say, thanks. For some reason, I knew what I wanted to say, but I couldn't put it into words. Hate when that happens. In fact, modern English doesn't capitalize breed names, and the only reason it's that way in bird articles is because the ornithologists were so impossible to deal with that no one will go near them (I wasn't there for it, that's just what I was told). I'm just trying to keep it off [[WP:LAME]] ''and'' get the proper MoS down. [[User:The Blade of the Northern Lights|The Blade of the Northern Lights]] ([[User talk:The Blade of the Northern Lights|talk]]) 04:52, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Quite plainly, this has turned into a personal argument. The rule is: if the name has a proper noun, the words after the proper noun are not capitalised, but words preceding the proper noun are capitalised. "Great Dane" is a rare example of capitalising the preceding word. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:172.164.28.246|172.164.28.246]] ([[User talk:172.164.28.246#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/172.164.28.246|contribs]]) 18:52, 20 July 2016 (UTC)</small>

:::Glad we got that cleared up. Now, as someone else pointed out (don't know what happened to that edit), the UKCI seems to be nothing more than a clearing house for, um, "breeders" to sell dogs. I think they'll register anything that breathes. Really, when you get right down to it, there is nothing to prevent anyone from starting a kennel club and registering litters.[[User:Wcrowe|Wcrowe]] 15:25, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

== Revamp ==

I got sent over this way after posting some comments on the Jack Russell entries. The question is how or where to discuss the individual breed registries - and particularly those that oppose recognition by the all-breed registries, and why.

I'd like to propose revamping this task force. "Yays" and "Nays" are always welcome and if you would like to be a part of the revamping process, please say so! [[User:CReep-cReep|cReep]] ([[User talk:CReep-cReep|talk]]) 05:43, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

In the case of the JRT, to treat the AKC as the authority on the breed when the AKC recognized the JRT in direct opposition to the wishes of the overwhelming majority of the JRT owners and breeders, and when far more JRTs are bred and registered under JRTCA auspices than AKC, is simply not going to leave the reader with a correct impression of the breed.

:"Revamping"?[[User:Wcrowe|The Dogfather]] ([[User talk:Wcrowe|talk]]) 13:13, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

::Revamp... Restore, renovate, revise, etc... Basically, reconstruct the page. On WP:Dogs we have been talking about breed article structures. I'd like to collaborate with other editors who are interested in getting this task force up and running again. Then we can reach agreements on article structures and content... Because it's never good if one editor goes in and changes everything without the agreement of others! [[User:CReep-cReep|cReep]] ([[User talk:CReep-cReep|talk]]) 08:45, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

: Seems like a good idea -- not much activity around here. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Anndelion|<span style="color:Goldenrod;">'''anndelion'''</span>]] <small>([[User_talk:Anndelion|<span style="color:navy;">talk</span>]])</small> 07:01, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

And the JRT is not the only breed that's been hijacked by the AKC - a similar fight is ongoing with Border Collies and a number of other popular working breeds.

== A real English Springer Spaniel? ==

The simple truth is that the AKC's standards are poorly suited for maintaining the working qualities of a breed. And the owners of working dogs know this. There's a reason that agility competitions are dominated by JRTs in the lower height classes and by Border Collies in the taller - neither breed has been crippled by decades of breeding to AKC standards.

I wonder whether any connoisseur in the [[English Springer Spaniel]] would be so kind as to take a glance [[Talk:English_Springer_Spaniel#A_real_English_Springer_Spaniel.3F|here]]. Many thanks. --[[User:Jeanambr|Jeanambr]] ([[User talk:Jeanambr|talk]]) 20:58, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

But where should a discussion of these issues belong? Where should the JRTCA be referenced?

==Request for Comment: Capitalization of common names of animal species==

I've looked around, and I'd say that the [[breed club]] entry is where this might best go. Currently, it suggests that these fall into two categories only - those that maintain their own registries while lobbying for the acceptance of a breed by the all-breed clubs and those that act as social clubs for the owners while letting the all-breed clubs run the registry.

{{consensus|Hello WikiProject members and others. As part of a [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Animals/Archive 7#Capitalization of common names of species (redux)|discussion]] at WikiProject Animals, a number of editors have indicated that the presentation of the current guidelines on the capitalization of common names of species is somewhat unclear.

An additional paragraph pointing out that some breed clubs are adamantly opposed to recognition by all-breed clubs - and are fighting against involuntary takeovers of the breeds by the all-breed clubs - would certainly seem apropos.

We wish to clarify and confirm existing ''uncontroversial'' guidelines and conventions, and present them in a "quick-reference" table format, for inclusion into [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(fauna)#Capitalisation_of_common_names_of_species the guidelines for the capitalization of common names of species].

--[[User:Jdege|jdege]] 21:26, 2004 Dec 1 (UTC)

Please take a moment to [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Animals/Draft capitalization guidelines|visit the draft]], and comment at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Animals/Draft capitalization guidelines|talk]]. Your input is requested to determine whether or not this table is needed, and to ensure that it is done in the best way possible. Thank you. [[User:Anna Frodesiak|Anna Frodesiak]] ([[User talk:Anna Frodesiak|talk]]) 03:43, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

:Good question where the matter(s) are best addressed. You're right, [[breed club]] could be one; [[breed registry]] (hmm, doesn't exist yet--thought it did--someone better create it cuz there are a lot of pages pointing to it! and more in a minute when I get done disambig'ing) could be another; somewhere out there there's a discussion about open vs closed stud books ([[selective breeding]]? Yup, there it is.). Some parts of the discussion might go in all places, or maybe all the related discussions should be gathered in one place--I don't have a perfect answer for ya. So you're probably safe in any of those places. As we often say on Wikipedia, [[Be bold]]! [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 02:29, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

}}

:Oh, and just found more at [[purebred]] and [[dog breeding]].

== [[Georgian Shepherd Dog]] ==

==Collection of dog photos==

Someone started, and I've been adding to, a page with all free-distribution (e.g., GFDL), public ___domain, etc. dog photos: [[Wikipedia:List of images/Nature/Animals/Dogs]]. I added the photos that [[User:Sannse]] and [[User:Elf|I] took and have been working my way through all of the breed articles, slowly, checking the photos to see whether they're GFDL or similar and then either adding them to the photo album page or attempting to contact the contributor and leaving a note on the [[Wikipedia talk:List of images/Nature/Animals/Dogs|album's talk page]].

Would someone from this project please take a look at [[Georgian Shepherd Dog]]. It's been heavily edited by a new user and doen't conform with Wikipedia's style and tone.--[[User:GrapedApe|GrapedApe]] ([[User talk:GrapedApe|talk]]) 13:16, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

This is just a request that, if you see anyone add a dog photo, to check whether its source and copyright/license status are identified; if not, attempt to contact the user (nicely) to get the info; and if it is free distr/public, add it to the album page? Or at least let me know that it's there so I can follow up. Hopefully I'll see any photos that are added because all the breed pages are on my watchlist, but ya never know. Thanks! [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 00:11, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

== Attention needed at Polish Hound ==

:See also [[Wikipedia:Requested_pictures#Dog_breeds]].

An anonymous user recently added a good deal of text to [[Polish Hound]]. The information is mostly cited to "Sarah's dog website" and "The Furry Critter Network". Unfortunately, no URL was provided for either web site. Perhaps someone here knows what the sites are and could add the necessary information? Alternately, maybe someone could cite the added information from other reliably published sources? I am not a dog aficionado myself; I just came across the article when it linked to a DAB page. Thanks, and happy editing. [[User:Cnilep|Cnilep]] ([[User talk:Cnilep|talk]]) 05:15, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

==Schnauzer naming==

:Sarah's Dogs is [http://www.sarahsdogs.com/ here] and the furry critter network is [http://www.furrycritter.com/ here]. Sarah's I don't think is reliable on its own. I can't speak to the other site. I'll take a look when i have some time later. --'''[[User:Tikuko|<span style="color:black;">T</span><span style="color:orange;">K</span><span style="color:gray;">K</span>]]''' [[User talk:Tikuko|^{<small>bark</small> <i><big>!</big></i>}]] 15:10, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Please give your thoughts on the [[Talk:Schnauzer]] page. Thanks. [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 02:05, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

::Just had a quick look at Furry Critter Network and to be honest, I very much doubt if either of them could be classed as a [[WP:RS]]. [[User:Sagaciousphil|<span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva; font-size: 12pt">SagaciousPhil</span></span>]] - [[User Talk:Sagaciousphil|<span style="font-family: Century Gothic; font-size:10pt">'''Chat'''</span>]] 16:26, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

== I'm interested joining the project ==

== Veterinarians ==

How could I participate the project? I have worked for many years with dog articles in Finnish Wikipedia and also written many new breed articles there. More recently I have also uploaded several dog breed photos in Wikimedia Commons and worked a little with Unidentified Dogs category. My special interests are Asian/Oceanian primitive dogs and spitz dogs, but I have also written many articles of rare breeds generally, as well as of Italian, Spanish, and French dog breeds. My modifications in Finnish Wikipedia can be found [https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toiminnot:Muokkaukset/Canarian here] and some examples from [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Canarian/gallery my breed gallery here]. --[[User:Canarian|Canarian]] ([[User talk:Canarian|talk]]) 19:03, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

I just added a couple of stubs to the [[List of dog topics]], plus linked [[James Herriot]]. Is this all right with everyone? [[User:Quill|Quill]] 01:44, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I have roughly the same question as the user above. Although I've only been active on wikipedia for only a few months, I do enjoy writing and neatening articles about the dog breeds. I'm Belgian though and thus I only write in dutch (so sorry for my bad english right here). So I was wondering if this WikiProject is only meant for the English articles or does it also support the improvement of the articles about dogs in other languages? By the way, so thankful to finally have found a page that suggest a recommended article structure. I've been looking for this for so long!--[[User:Absintalsem|Absintalsem]] ([[User talk:Absintalsem|talk]]) 01:49, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

==Categories (part 23)==

moved to [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dog breeds/Categories]] [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 03:46, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

<gallery widths="200px" heights="200px" perrow="5" caption="Your pictures" >

==Format of images in tables==

File:Tsvetnaya Bolonka 2.JPG|We are using this

File:Bosnian and Herzegovinian - Croatian Shepherd Dog aka Tornjak.jpg|We are using this

File:English Cocker Spaniel black.jpg|We are using this

File:Mioritic.jpg|We are using this

File:Bosnian and Herzegovinian Shepherd Dog (Tornjak) group.jpg|We are using this

File:Catalonian Sheepdog.jpg|We are using this

File:Nihon teria aka Japanese Terrier.JPG| We are using this

File:Grand griffon vendéen aka Large Vendéen Griffon.JPG|This dog has to long legs to be a Grand Basset Griffon Vendéen

</gallery>

[[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 15:36, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

:I think the <s>third</s> last image is actually an [[Italian Spinone]]. [[User:Sagaciousphil|<span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva; font-size: 12pt">SagaciousPhil</span></span>]] - [[User Talk:Sagaciousphil|<span style="font-family: Century Gothic; font-size:10pt">'''Chat'''</span>]] 15:45, 4 May 2014 (UTC) <small> changed my comment as there are now more images! </small>

::Quite so, it is a Spinone! [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 16:01, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Any thoughts on this? Personally I much prefer the "thumb" version - partly for the aesthetics of the thing, but mostly because readers are not likely to know that there is a larger version of the image available. The expand icon is vital for the full effect of the images to be appreciated -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 16:28, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)

:Do you mean a smaller version of the picture that when you move the cursor over it it's obvious that you can click to enlarge? I like this too. Overly-large pictures dominate the article and take ages to load. [[User:Quill|Quill]] 07:06, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

:Ok, I corrected the image caption in the Japanese Terrier article (the dog is female). The dog in the photo was actually a [[Grand Griffon Vendeen]], not a Grand Basset Griffon Vendeen. It's pretty confusing though, since the names are almost the same. Griffon Vendeens are taller and have longer legs than Basset Griffons. In Wikimedia Commons, there are only few examples to show the proportions of the breed, but some examples of how the Grand Griffon looks like can be found for instance here: [http://www.chiens-online.com/_upload/ressources/eleveur/294828/vignettes/photos/090_700_466.jpg French website], [http://www.cinofilionline.it/images/Grandgriffonvendeen282buono.jpg Italian website] and here's a [http://www.chiens-online.com/_upload/ressources/eleveur/294828/vignettes/photos/wp_000043_510_340_filled.jpg group photo]. So it is actually very different by both size and proportions than the Grand Basset Griffon and yes it can be said in a way they resemble more the Spinone than the Basset Griffon because they lack the Basset-like proportions. --[[User:Canarian|Canarian]] ([[User talk:Canarian|talk]]) 11:15, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

It's the difference between:

== Seskar Seal Dog Sources ==

{| cellpadding=1

|[[Image:Shiba Inu 600.jpg|100px|thumb|none|This]]

||and

||[[Image:Shiba Inu 600.jpg|100px|none|This]] This

|}

I was thinking I will probably receive a quicker answer here than in the talk page of an individual article, so here's my question. Do you think these sources can be considered reliable enough to be added to the source list of the [[Seskar Seal Dog]] article?

Recently all the images in the dog infoboxes has been changed to the latter; still the same size image, but without the border or the expand icon. It also makes it more difficult to add a caption (without using more complicated tables as I did above). I think it's an all round bad idea, but wanted to see if others felt the same -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 11:46, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

* [http://www.iltasanomat.fi/kotimaa/art-1288339362800.html "The Finnish Spitz is the Favorite Finnish Breed in Finland", published by Ilta-Sanomat] - This is basically an article about internet voting organized by a Finnish newspaper, and it also mentions the Seskar Seal Dog among the breed options. Ilta-Sanomat is one of our biggest tabloids. However, there is no further information about the breed, it is only mentioned as one of the traditional Finnish dog breeds, so I am not sure if this source is worth of adding.

:I agree. I like the pictures with the border and expand icon better. I'm going to leave ChicXulub a message on their talk page to see why they changed all of our images (they apparently did it in other categories too). [[User:Lachatdelarue|[[User:Lachatdelarue|Lachatdelarue]] [[User talk:Lachatdelarue|(talk)]]]] 13:58, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

* [http://koivu.luomus.fi/lapset/kuvastot/koiraelaimet.php "Finnish Canines" written by Pekka Hänninen in the website of the Finnish Museum of Natural History, children's section] - The following text can be found in the section "Vanhat koirarodut" (Old dog breeds): "Useita rotuja, kuten seiskarinhyljekoira, on ehtinyt jo kadota, sillä niiden taitoja ei ole kehittyvässä maailmassa tarvittu." ("Many breeds, such as the Seskar Seal Dog, have already vanished because the tasks they used to perform have no longer been needed"). Although it gives a reference to reasons why the breed became extinct, I am not sure if the source itself can be considered trustworthy enough: Although the publisher is the Finnish Museum of Natural History together with the University of Helsinki, the page itself is from children's section and is also written "for kids", for instance it has very few sentences.

--[[User:Canarian|Canarian]] ([[User talk:Canarian|talk]]) 19:04, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

==This article needs attention. ==

::Huh. I got back after 3 days off, checked my watchlist in chronological order, and just went to work fixing most of the images before I ever went to Chic's talk page or looked here--I figured that if he/she had looked here, the changes wouldn't have been made. So... see *my* note on [[User talk:ChicXulub]]. [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 06:23, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

:::Heh,[[Gun-dog Itraining]] probably- shouldnot haveone been bold and done the samecitation. Thanks Elf -- [[User:SannseHafspajen|sannseHafspajen]] ([[User talk:SannseHafspajen|(talk)]]) 1723:2418, 822 SepJune 20042014 (UTC)

==Show dogsOverview andBox? dog shows==

Found articles on [[Crufts]] and (misnamed/misdescribed but now fixed) [[Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show]]. Created a stub for [[show dog]] because was on [[Wikipedia:Most wanted articles]] list. Those of you with interest/knowledge in these areas, have at. [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 07:34, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I was just wondering why this article has an overview box in addition to the general breed profile box:

==Category subproject page==

*[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_Tan_Coonhound#Appearance B&T Coonhound]

I have created a subproject page, [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Dog breeds/Categories]] to discuss the ongoing categorization of dog-related articles. Please take a look and throw in your two bits on its talk page. Thanks. (And you might want to add it to your watchlist; I don't think subpages go there automagically.) [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 03:55, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Is the information in the current overview box meant to be later removed to the breed profile box? Or is it "planned" that the overview box should also be added to other breed articles? --[[User:Canarian|Canarian]] ([[User talk:Canarian|talk]]) 11:51, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

:No, it is not planned. You may remove that. Pretty crappy layout and article. [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 19:40, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

== you guys might be interested... ==

== [[Talk:Dalmatian (dog) ‎]] ==

There is a question raised about wich image should be used at [[Talk:Dalmatian (dog)]]. [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 08:26, 19 September 2014 (UTC) ‎

I happened upon this page while working on recategorizing cat-related pages (there wasn't much organization, and it's proving to be quite a task). [[Wikipedia:Wikipedians_by_pet]] I just thought some of you might want to take a look. [[User:Lachatdelarue|[[User:Lachatdelarue|Lachatdelarue]] [[User talk:Lachatdelarue|(talk)]]]] 18:01, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

== Brazilian Dogo ==

:No fooling! That's why I left a zillion messages on all the talk pages of places where cat-interested people might notice them, referring to my discussion on organization. It's taking me many hours just to work my way slowly through all the dog articles! Thanks for the new pointer. [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]]

::You should check out [[:Category:Cats]] and [[:Category:Felines]]. I've done a lot of work on this stuff today. It makes me wonder if dog-people aren't a bit more fanatical about their pets than cat-people, considering how much thought and work is being put into the dog categories, and the lack thereof in the cats'... [[User:Lachatdelarue|[[User:Lachatdelarue|Lachatdelarue]] [[User talk:Lachatdelarue|(talk)]]]] 19:55, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

:Wouldn't surprise me--after all, dog people tend to be very involved in their dogs' lives & activities & vice-versa. Cats? They just hang out-- ;-) You *have* done a lot of category work! Good job. [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 20:20, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

::Yo! Lay off cats! ;)

::Actually, I think it's because of the difference of time in the development of dog fancy (much older) and cat fancy. Many more dog breeds and dog organizations, many more purebred dogs are pets than purebred cats, etc. Certainly, the difference in dog-human vs. cat-human interaction plays a large part as well (cat flyball races??!!)

::I came across a person asking questions on categorization (no puns!) on one of the Cat talk pages (Lord knows where) and I recommended that s/he get in touch with Sannse or Elf for help (no, you don't have to thank me ;) [[User:Quill|Quill]] 21:54, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[[Brazilian Dogo]] does not seem to be listed in a few dog list places. Neither here on the talk page under B (though I suspect that list is very out of date) nor more importantly in the category [[:Category:Dog_breeds]]. It is listed in the [[list of dog breeds]] which is the list I am working through as I go through infoboxes. Not sure if I should be pointing things like this out or not but I certainly am noticing things as I go along. I have been changing what I can do easily and keeping track of others for later. But this one I think is an easy fix for someone who is active here. [[User:Jemmaca|Jemmaca]] ([[User talk:Jemmaca|talk]]) 01:42, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

== need support ==

==Latest additions==

About [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bullmastiff&diff=prev&oldid=637602654 this edit]. Please read [[Wikipedia: !]]: ''Personal essays that state your particular feelings about a topic (rather than the opinions of experts). Although Wikipedia is supposed to compile human knowledge, it is not a vehicle to make personal opinions become part of such knowledge. In the unusual situation where the opinions of an individual are important enough to discuss'' [[Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not]] should give a clue.

[[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 11:43, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

:* I'm sorry to have upset you. It is an alt tag to describe what is seen in that photo. Not a personal opinion about all bullmastiffs. But I presume you changed it to something you found more pleasing so hopefully all is well now. <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Jemmaca|Jemmaca]] ([[User talk:Jemmaca|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Jemmaca|contribs]]) 18:45, 11 December 2014 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== American Bully redirect ==

[[:Category:Cat breeds]] and [[:Category:Cat types]] have both been marked for deletion, b/c someone thinks they should be merged. We all know they are two very different things. Could you guys please put in some votes for them not to be? Thanks. [[User:Lachatdelarue|[[User:Lachatdelarue|Lachatdelarue]] [[User talk:Lachatdelarue|(talk)]]]] 20:39, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[[American Bully]] was redirected to [[American Pit Bull Terrier]] in December 2012 following a discussion at AFD that concluded that there was no notability to the supposed breed. However, only 6 months later or so, the UKC recognized it as a separate formal breed, with a breed standard (found [http://www.ukcdogs.com/Web.nsf/Breeds/CompanionDog/AmericanBully here]. Based on that, I hope to resestqblish a separate article, but could use some assistance. At the very least, the permanent page protection on the article needs to be removed. [[User:Oknazevad|oknazevad]] ([[User talk:Oknazevad|talk]]) 14:33, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

== (Bad) Shih Tzu picture ==

== Cur dispute ==

When I saw that [[Shih Tzu]] didn't have any picture, I took a picture of my pet Shih Tzu and uploaded it to wikipedia, [[:Image:Shih Tzu.JPG]]. However, it's not a very good picture at all quality-wise, the dog isn't standing, it was taken in my living room, the picture needs to be shrunk (its 2048x1536) and my Shih Tzu recently had a haircut so she doesn't have the long hair look Shih Tzus are supposed to. But, if you want to put it in the Shih Tzu article go ahead, I released it into the Public Domain, I just didn't want to put it in without consulting somebody due to it's many flaws. If you think something is better than nothing though, you got your wish :) p.s. I will try to get a better picture up but we'll see... - [[User:Biggins|biggins]] | [[User talk:biggins|talk]] 22:48, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

:I'm going to go ahead and edit the picture some, and re-upload it over the original image (if that's ok) and put it in the Shih Tzu article... still haven't decided if I will put it in the breed table or not.... [[User:Lachatdelarue|[[User:Lachatdelarue|Lachatdelarue]] [[User talk:Lachatdelarue|(talk)]]]] 23:08, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

::If you're talking about [[Wikipedia:List of images/Nature/Animals/Dogs]], all free-distribution dog photos go here whether we use them or not. Any that aren't free (e.g., copyrighted w/no rleease, unlabeled, etc.) go on that page's Talk page with an explanation. It's the only way of keeping track of all dog photos. I just added the current shih tzu photo; if you upload over it, of course it will automatically redraw once you refresh the screen or clear your cache. Or kick the computer and spill coke down its motherboard, whatever it takes. [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 23:21, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

:I uploading the image under a different file name, and added it to the Shih Tzu's breed table, with a caption saying that it had a "summer-friendly haircut". [[User:Lachatdelarue|[[User:Lachatdelarue|Lachatdelarue]] [[User talk:Lachatdelarue|(talk)]]]] 23:35, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

An editor who first came as an ip has been changing the definition of the [[Cur]] article but hasn't used any sources to back up the edits. They were warned several times and has been reverted by at least three editors and has now come back with an accoutn doing the same thing. I have urged them several times to disscus it on the talk page but they have refused to do so. Can someone help?[[User:&#42;Treker|★Trekker]] ([[User talk:&#42;Treker|talk]]) 16:58, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

== [[Dog]] article ==

== New Tab ==

The [[dog]] article is currently 37Kb, exceeding the suggested 32Kb limit for articles. I'm thinking we should split off one or more of the longer sections into their own articles, with a briefer description on the main article. The one section I'm thinking of is attributes. This would be fairly easy to split off. If no one objects, I'd be willing to do it. Let me know. [[User:Lachatdelarue|[[User:Lachatdelarue|Lachatdelarue]] [[User talk:Lachatdelarue|(talk)]]]] 22:48, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Hello [[User:Miyagawa|Miyagawa]] and [[User:White Arabian Filly|<span style="color:red">White Arabian Filly</span>]]. I had originally noticed that you were both active under the Dog Breeds Task Force before I commenced the current undertaking and recognize the massive task this group does in tagging and rating articles within its scope. It is clear that this taskforce is the "engine room" of the project. I have therefore "raised" the profile of the task force by deploying it from its own tab that is now visible from the main project page. The Scope of the taskforce could be further developed and any sub-taskforces that it believes necessary identified in accordance with [[WP:TASKFORCE]]. Given that it was an independent WikiProject until 2006, I would encourage it to develop its own Goals as well (unlike other Wikipedia task forces) as long as they are still in accord with the project's goals. I seek your ideas and comments on this, plus those from any other editor that has an interest, and am available to assist. Regards, [[User:William Harris|<span style="color: green">William Harris •</span>]] [[User talk:William Harris|<span style="color: green">(talk) •</span>]] 22:35, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

:We need to leave a good hunk of description of what a dog looks like & how it's built and why in the main article. I could see chomping off maybe [[Dog coat]]? [[Dog ear]]? Maybe even some of the details into [[Dog social skills]] (or a better title than that)? Coat especially, because I was thinking in terms of a table, with columns for the term, the definition, example breeds, and a close-up photo-- (ditto for ears, tails). [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 02:06, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

:In the interim, the taskforce went dormant and the whole wikiproject almost did. We've had a discussion at [[WT:DOGS]] and decided to merge the talk pages to centralize discussion. I'm not sure if this has any implications for the task force tab, or its existence (any discussion of that should be at [[WT:DOGS]]). <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] 😼 </span> 17:52, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

== Breeds talk merge ==

::Yes, you're both right. It needs to be a thoughtful choice. That's a problem running through the article: the seemingly arbitrary attention to detail in some areas. There's a good reason for that, of course: everyone writes about what they know. What I'm saying, though, is that we need an objective decision about section type and length. i.e., why cut 'coat' but leave 'diseases and ailments' or 'interaction with humans'? Elf spoke before of a separate [[dog health]] article, e.g. Am I making sense? I'm not suggesting that cuts not be done, but that it's time for some serious thought as to WHICH cuts and WHY...[[User:Quill|Quill]]

{{FYI|pointer=y}}

:Oh, my, *serious* thought? I'll have to put the screws to my brain and see whether it survives. Or else I'll go pull some weeds. [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 23:52, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Please see [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dogs#Breeds talk merge]]. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] 😼 </span> 16:05, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

:Done. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] 😼 </span> 17:52, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

== linking to Wikipedias in other languages ==

*Dear friends, [[:Category:Dog breeds]] and [[List of dog breeds]] contains now links to Wikipedias in other languages. It was diffucult for me to pay attention

**not to link a list from one language to a categry of another language;

**find ''"island (isolated)" articles / stubs'' in some languages to insert links to existing ''"chains" of articles'';

** not to link to a '''<nowiki>{{disambiguation}}</nowiki>''';

*I looked at some of the lists and could find some of such ''isolated'' articles. Not all lists are checked so far because of lack of time. I got some help from Japan too. Maybe it would be a good idea to find people interested in dog breeding trough the [[Wikipedia:Embassy]] as well in order to involve more people in the project, to compare (, add ...) informations between languages, find a requested picture and so on. Regards [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 01:45, 2004 Oct 5 (UTC)

:I must admit that you started me thinking, and last week I spent a few hours in the French wikipedia trying to straighten out Dog (Chien) and any dog-related articles I could find--not many at all, really. You're right, it will really take people familiar with dogs in the other languages to get that going; there are a couple of breeds posted there that I have no idea what the English version is, and also I wonder whether, for example, "Flatcoated Retriever" is in fact what the French call that breed (although it might well be, since we call many breeds by non-English names). Anyway, it was interesting and I might go back again with my VERY limited vocabulary--mostly formatting, organizing, and adding interlanguage links, as I can't really write or edit the content. [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 04:57, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

::Halló Elf! I have seen the list at [[:fr:Liste des races de chiens]]. Great job! It is linked now to the whole ''list chain''. Hope to get some feedback from contributors to those and other languages. Regards [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 02:31, 2004 Oct 8 (UTC)

:Pretty exciting, huh? It needs a lot more "frenchification"; I can find French breed names on the FCI list for many breeds, but the challenge is that I don't know by what name they're most commonly called by French dog fanciers--for example, there are a lot of breeds with perfectly fine English names but that most English-speaking dog people still refer to using their native names in another language. So I'll try to tackle some more of it eventually, but it might still be out of line. We don't always even get the English list correct! (Plus my french is so miserably awful that I don't dare try to write any actual sentences.) [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 04:00, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

=== linking to Wikipedias in other languages 2 ===

*At the moment [[:Category:Dog breeds]] links to a dozen of categories in other languages and [[List of dog breeds]] to about 10 other lists. For the upcomming languages I linked all available articles. What I learned from this:

**In the Japanease list the [[Dingo]] was listed as well. The category structure in other languages does not match '''en.wikipedia'''. The Dingo articles have been in different categories at the respective languages.

**With some help it should be possible to build equivalents to '''[[:Category:Canines]]''', '''[[:Category:Dogs]]''', '''[[:Category:Dog types]]''' (and maybe some others) too. '''[[:Category:Pets]]''' and '''[[:Category:Domesticated animals]]''' should be available too.

----

*At the moment the articles show (only) the FCI group and section. It would be a great, great help if the FCI number would be there too.

*[[Talk:Italian Greyhound]] shows a section [[Talk:Italian Greyhound#InterWiki's and links]]. I would go trough the FCI list and look for thouse links. They should be at the articles and will help to grow the number of French and Spanish dog articles. Maybe the FCI webmasters would add '''HTML Label names''' / '''[[Anchor|Anchors]]''' to the site in order to reference it easier.

*For each dog people from the Wikipedias related to the concerning country could / should be contacted in order to have articeles these languages too. In Italian for the [[Italian Greyhound]] and so on.

----

*Maybe we should write a few words about [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Dog breeds]] (as a template?), let it translate to additional languages and place it in the '''[[wikipedia:Village pump|Village pumps - Cafés]]''' (or appropriate places as '''[[Wikipedia:Project|Projects]]'''), at the top of the available categories, lists and so on. Regards [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 19:15, 2004 Oct 23 (UTC)

:I doubt that would be viewed well in general (if I understand what you are proposing)- imagine if ''every'' Wikiproject spamed all the village pumps in this way -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 19:46, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

::There is still the oportunity to contact embassies linked to [[Wikipedia:Embassy]] or administrators at other Wikipedias to find initial atricles. At one of the ''nordic'' wikipedias I have seen an ''omnibus'' (made with a template) guiding you from one article of that subject to another. It was impressive. I need to find it ... Regards [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 22:51, 2004 Oct 23 (UTC)

::An example of Minibus navugation is shown at [[:da:Pattedyr]]. [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 00:50, 2004 Oct 24 (UTC)

----

::'''Avoiding spaming:''' With minimal effort a template can be inserted in the user pages at en.wikipedia and at other languages too. ('''Note:''' To my knowledge templates can not be shared between languages, they have to be rebuild every time.) If you look at [[User:Gangleri/templates/accounts]] you can see where I am ''walking'' around. Wenn I edit in other languages I insert allways '''<nowiki>[[:en:User:Gangleri]] ...</nowiki>''' in the '''Edit summary:''' field. Then edits are not anonimuos and people can contact me if they have questions. This brings them to the user page where the project / the projects are mentioned. [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 12:46, 2004 Oct 26 (UTC)

=== ambiguous InterWiki links ===

*Soemtimes it is complicated:

**[[:nl:Cocker spaniel]] is (was) not linked at all.

**[[American Cocker Spaniel|en:American Cocker Spaniel]] (in category breed) is linked to [[:de:Amerikanischer Cocker Spaniel]]

**The [[Disambiguation]] [[Cocker Spaniel|en:Cocker Spaniel]] (in both categories breeds and types) was linked to [[:de:English Cocker Spaniel]]. Last was linked to [[English Cocker Spaniel|en:English Cocker Spaniel]]. [[English Cocker Spaniel|en:English Cocker Spaniel]] was not linked at all.

**[[de:Cocker Spaniel]] is actualy a REDIRECT to [[de:English Cocker Spaniel]]. Will be fixed. [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 00:19, 2004 Oct 24 (UTC)

== [[List of dog breeds]] ==

*Dear friends, I want to attract your attention about the German equivalent for [[List of dog breeds]] '''[[:de:Liste der Hunderassen]]'''. Sorry that I did not pay enough attention to this '''important information''' so far.

*The lists begins with an explanation about the '''notes''' used beside the breed names:

**'''Erklärung: "Rasse" (a/b/c)(B)'''

**'''Explanation: "Breed" (a/b/c)(P)''' where a = group / b = section / c = number / P article with picture.

*The list shows alternative names too and it should be possible to see if all redirects are available.

*It is mentioned at the Talk page that ''this is the only way to have an unique identification for the breeds''.

----

*Before reworking the page please let me explore

**the impact of '''multiple redirects''' (''from article '''a''' to article '''b''' to article '''c''' ...'') to visitors of the Wikipedia sites.

**how notes to ''non FCI breeds'' as '''Elo''' are made. Regards [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 01:34, 2004 Oct 9 (UTC)

:[[:Image:Vina vom Schloss Neubronn 2004-07-E-08-300.jpg|;-)]] [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 02:37, 2004 Oct 9 (UTC)

::I don't agree that we should match our page to this format. The information on the FCI breed categories is only part of the important category/group information needed. In the context of an English language encyclopaedia the groupings chosen by the various breed associations outside of the FCI are just as important (the Kennel Club (UK) and the US kennel clubs are not FCI affiliated remember). It would not be possible or appropriate to add the information on ''all'' breed associations to this list, and this information is better left in the articles.

::I also prefer our format for handling alternative names. Listing them within the body of the list, unlinked but with a "see <nowiki>[[article]]</nowiki>" helps a reader to find the article they are looking for with ease. We have a lot of these alternative names missing at the moment - but the most important ones are being added as we go along. This is particularly important where different English speaking countries have different names for the same breed (American Cocker Spaniel is the example that springs to mind). There is never just one way to format an article, and what works for one language doesn't always work for another. I think in this case we should not make major changes to a format that works well for us. Regards -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 20:07, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

::p.s. multiple redirects go only to the first link. So if <nowiki>[[article 1]] redirects to [[article 2]] which redirects to [[article 3]] </nowiki>- then clicking a link to 1 will take you to 2, and the redirect at 2 will do nothing. Hope that makes sense :) -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]]

=== [[:fr:Liste des races de chiens]] ===

*Regarding [[:fr:Liste des races de chiens]] I just realised an issue common to many xx.wikipedia. See also [[:fr:Discuter:Liste des races de chiens]].

**First is that some in xx.wikipedia races are referenced without capitals (''or with postponed definitic articles as in Icelandic''). Please see [http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Liste_des_races_de_chiens&action=history history] to see the change(s). Who should make / verify the existens of all REDIRECT's for existing articles?

**Another question is what form to use for ''disambiguations''? Should ''Alsatian'' (referenced as <nowiki>[[Alsatian (chien)|Alsatian]]</nowiki>) be used or ''Alsatian (chien)''? Regards [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 19:02, 2004 Oct 14 (UTC)

*P.S.: What about people not familiar with the differences to capital use writing [[Dog Breed]] or [[Dog Breeds]]? [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 19:46, 2004 Oct 14 (UTC)

:*Questions about foreign-language wikis are best asked on that language, not here; I am not familiar enough with the language & culture in general nor with the dog-related language and culture to be able to provide any useful input on something like whether the breed names (breed = ''race'' in French) should be capitalized. Likewise, calls for help (such as adding REDIRECTs in the fr wiki) should go in the language wiki, not here.

:*I'm not quite sure what you mean by "postponed definite articles" even after rereading your earlier post at [[Talk:Icelandic Sheepdog]]. Again, this looks like a foreign-language issue, not an English issue. The use of articles in English is confusing enough without asking whether the Icelandic language uses articles in the same way. (E.g., British English apprently uses "go to hospital" but American English uses "go to the hospital"... although in most places their uses of articles is the same.)

:*In most places, we want the text to look like part of the normal reading language and not like a more complex markup. For example, on the [[List of dog breeds]] page, we use <nowiki>[[Chihuahua (dog)|Chihuahua]]</nowiki>. It's not always done that way, though, for various reasons. In [[Chihuahua (disambiguation)]], all of the disambig items just use the <nowiki>[[Chihuahua (dog)]]</nowiki> form because that way it's clear that they're all different articles--but one other way to make the differences clear would be something like <nowiki>[[Chihuahua (dog)|Chihuahua dog]]</nowiki>, which is how it's done in [[Bobcat (disambiguation)]]; yet many disambigs completely hide the disambig'ing part, as in [[Brittany (disambiguation)]] where "Brittany" is the linked text in each definiton. (There are better examples of the latter somewhere because I know, I've worked on some, but I can't find 'em at the moment.)

:*Redirecting all forms of plurals and capitalizations... It might be a good idea to have a redirect for the plural of common terms (as there is for [[Dogs]]). When I put in a new breed, I usually check to see whether upper & lowercase versions of the breed name typed in the search box bring up the new page and then decide whether to make appropriate redirects. I don't think that we need redirects for common english terms or phrases, which are pretty much never capitalized (as in "dog breed"); we'd have to have redirs for every entry in wikipedia, which I don't think makes much sense. I don't think that most users will capitalize common English words.

:[[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 21:21, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

::Thanks for your answer. What I was traying to say is that in Romanian, Iclandic and some other languages you would not say ''"the dog"'' or ''"those races"'', you will say somthing like ''"dog'''the'''"'' and ''"races'''those'''"''. I have also seen that ''"Wikipedia articles"'' are used together with "gramatical articles". I found ''"sagas'''the'''"'' and so on. But this is up to the decision of the other Wikipedias. It is only important to know this, if you search the ''"Wikipedia articles"'' equivalents in order to find them faster. Regards [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 02:55, 2004 Oct 15 (UTC)

== JRTs and Dogs Actor Conventions and Stuff ==

Someone has recently edited the [[Jack Russell Terrier]] article, leading to some questions:

# What are the numbers and & for? What do they do?

# What is our convention for dog actors? What I mean is, do we write

*''Eddie'', played by Moose, in the [[sitcom]] ''[[Frasier]]''

*''Eddie'', played by ''Moose'', in the....

*"Eddie", played by Moose,...

*"Eddie", played by "Moose"...

*Eddie, played by '''Moose'''

etc., etc, and repeated for Lassie, Rex, Maximillian, Wishbone, Asta and a whole lotta dogs I love

[[User:Quill|Quill]] 00:03, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

# The &numbers; are [[unicode]]. Usually they are deliberate, such as the Chinese characters at the beginning of the [[Shih Tzu]] article, but they also sometimes appear as a browser foible when someone doesn't use plain text (for example, if they paste from Word and the text contains "smart quotes"). Personally - I usually remove them in this case and replace with the equivalent standard character. They just make the text more difficult to read during editing IMO (that's also the suggestion in the Manual of Style).

# I would say:

*Eddie, played by Moose, in the [[sitcom]] ''[[Frasier]]''

:The [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style (titles)|Manual of Style]] says that TV program names should be in italics so that bit's clear. We don't use any special formatting for human actors names or their characters, so I don't think we need to for animals. I'll go ahead and make these changes in the article - let me know if you disagree anyone (or just revert me of course :) -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 10:04, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

== reorganisation ==

*What about moving ''General Strategy and Discussion forum'' to the top or making it like [[Template:Villagepumppages]] from [[Wikipedia:Village pump]]?

**[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Dog breeds/General|/General]] [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dog breeds/General|talk]]

**[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Dog breeds/Strategy|/Strategy]] [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dog breeds/Strategy|talk]]

**[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Dog breeds/Categories|/Categories]] [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dog breeds/Categories|talk]]

**[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Dog breeds/International|/International]] [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dog breeds/International|talk]]

**[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Dog breeds/Templates|/Templates]] [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dog breeds/Templates|talk]]

**It will be very difficult to wath so many pages. A '''content''' would help. For example it is every time hard for me to find the participants list because I normaly use talk pages only.

**[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Dog breeds/Needs verification|/Needs verification]] [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dog breeds/Needs verification|talk]] in order to have an central place to report issues

**[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Dog breeds/Project map|/Project map]] [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dog breeds/Project map|talk]] similar to a site map at homepages (maybe combined with a project status)

***Note: I linked before many different articles as [[Cynology]], [[Fédération Cynologique Internationale|FCI]], ... Normaly I do not look at other categories then dog breeds of the project. At some point in time someone should care about this articles as well.

**todos, open issues, ...

:::votes?

**requested translations, requested pictures, ...

*It should be easyly to find a place for input from other languages. Example: [[:nl:Stabyhoun]] is available with a picture and linked to [[:de:Stabyhound]]. It is missing in ''en.wikipedia''. Same would apply with special local breeds from Japan etc.

*For newcomers it should be transparent who is skilled about what. Some have large knowledge about many of the pages of the project. How many are actualy so far? Others can just take care of technical issues (see below), some have sysop rights and so on.

::Project follows standard strategy for [[Wikipedia:WikiProject|WikiProjects]]. We can add additional subcategories under General Strategy, like we added /Categories; for example, you could certainly add a /Languages subtopic. Think of the project pages as being like articles: they're supposed to represent what we do or what we know; the talk pages for each are where we're supposed to develop ideas about what we do or how. For example, the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Dog breeds/Categories|/Categories]] page should state what we DO do about categories--that is, agreed-upon strategies (although it was originally phrased as "hey, how about this?"); its [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dog breeds/Categories|talk page]] should be where people say, um, no, that's not right, I think we do abc--or I think we should do xyz, and then we discuss it, and then when consensus occurs, it goes ontothe /Categories page.

::Certainly we could add descriptions to each of the links for the subtopics on the main project page. I'll do that now...

:::Oh, wow, I see what you mean. These pages are rife with discussion when they shouldn't be. Maybe they need some cleanup. Maybe I'll do that. Argh.

::[[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 00:55, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

**[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Dog breeds/Sister projects|/Sister projects]] [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dog breeds/Sister projects|talk]] as the work of user [[:de:Benutzer:Caronna|de:Caronna]] at de:, [[:pl:Wikipedysta:AndrzejzHelu|pl:AndrzejzHelu]] at pl:, startup help provided [[User:Wcrowe|Dogfather]] at it:, es:, [[User:Elf|Elf]] at fr: ... My opinion is that working on the other Wikipedias is not a waste of time but an improuvment both to the knowledge about, diversity and quality of articles and contributions. [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 12:29, 2004 Oct 26 (UTC)

**P.S.: The availability of local templates can be mentioned here. [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 12:52, 2004 Oct 26 (UTC)

**[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Dog breeds/What's new|/What's new]] [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dog breeds/What's new|talk]] to have a central place of the "'''headers'''" of new topics ...

----

''moved to [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Dog_breeds/Categories#WDP feature request]]:''

<strike>*I think we should start a feature request about displaying the content of a category in the same manner as "My contributions". I mean as a list with newest changes displayed first. It should be possible also to display the content of (some) special pages (as categories and so on) with a '''Startig from''' and '''Until''' input mask. This would save both database resources and user resources as well. What is your opinion about this? Regards [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 05:25, 2004 Oct 24 (UTC)</strike>

== Wow! [[:he:Category:&#1499;&#1500;&#1489;&#1497;&#1501; ]] ==

*Halló! I have seen an InterWiki link and hope to find some people interested to come here. Regards [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 20:26, 2004 Oct 30 (UTC)

*List available at [[:he:&#1490;&#1494;&#1506;&#1497; &#1499;&#1500;&#1489;&#1497;&#1501;]]. [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 20:31, 2004 Oct 30 (UTC)

== Bichons ==

While making a minor edit to the Bichon Frise article, I noticed that the interwiki link to fi was actually for the Havanese, so I moved it over to that article. Then I decided to take a look at the foreign language article. The picture over there of a "[[:fi:Bichon_havannese|bichon havannese]]" looks more like a Coton de Tulear to me. Does anyone understand any of this language (I don't even know what it is)? And is that a Havanese, or a Coton? [[User:Lachatdelarue|Lachatdelarue [[User talk:Lachatdelarue|(talk)]]]] 12:52, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

:I have e-mailed user [[:fi:Käyttäjä:Ljeskola]] (found in the history of that article). It seams, that he / she has not made recent contributions and hope that the e-mail address is still valid and he / she understands English.

<br>

:[[:fi:Käyttäjä:Jean d'Arc]] making the categories added the links to fi:. I appologise, that I have not verified the links. Now both all links to [[Havanese]] and all links to [[Bichon Frisé]] are adjusted. Regards [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 02:47, 2004 Nov 2 (UTC)

== [[:is:]] List of dog breeds ==

*Dear friends, I made an equivalent for the [[List of dog breeds]] in Icelandic. At the moment (03:12, 2004 Nov 2 (UTC)) it exists as a draft at [[:is:Notandi:Gangleri/drafts/list of dog breeds]].

*As has be seen in the [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dog breeds#Bichons]] example errors can occur and I would like to reformat some of the lists to include additional information.

*To my oppinion there would be a greather help if beside the name of the breed in the language of that Wikipedia, the original (if available) should be mentioned as well together with the indication of the FCI catalogisation because it is used both in different countries and by different alphabets.

*The indication (P) picture would help editors to identify articles with pictures more easy.

*The indication about the talk page could show that information, as links to breeding standards, kennel clubs etc., <nowiki>ISBN's</nowiki> and so on are available already.

*I would be happy if I am allowed to insert to the English articles beside the ''Group'' and ''Section'' also the number. For [[Basset Hound]] it would be: Group 6 Section 1.3 (''not only 1'') N°163.

*Please let me know your opinion about this because I would like to rework the lists in the ofiicial languages of FCI: fr:, en:, de:, es: . Doing this I would like to put the links to existing FCI breeding standards to the talk pages. Regards [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 03:12, 2004 Nov 2 (UTC)

:*Mixed feelings about including all possible language variants of a breed's name on the breed's page in Alternative Names. Since this is an English wiki, having the names used (and spelled) by English speakers makes the most sense. Although I see that sometimes for example Chinese character representations of dog names are appearing in some articles. I haven' t been removing those even though those are *clearly* not from english-speaking dog people! But I don't think you can say "use the original name" because there are going to be disputes about what the "original" name was, especially when the breed is older & is hard to pinpoint to a specific ___location. So it would be hard to draw the line as to where to stop listing alternative names. Maybe we shouldn't even try to--and just list all variants that we come across anyway. I dunno.

:*But if you're talking about doing stuff like this on ''List of dog breeds'':

::* Afganhundur _ (Afghan Hound) (FCI 10/1/228) (M) Afghanistan

::Uh-uh, I don't like it, it's way too cluttered. The FCI # and other club designators are on the breed pages, as is the likely country of origin. And it would be impossible to decide which alternative breed names to list here. Reader should be able to simply scan for the name of the breed they're looking for in a vertical list, not wade through all that extra info. That's why we've got alternative names often listed in the proper alphabetical place in the list (e.g., Alsation and German Shepher Dog). Maybe if it was in a table so it was easier to ignore the extra stuff...but then you're maintaining all of that data *twice*, onece on the breed page & once on the list. I don't much like that idea--everything we already have it a lot of work.

::In any event, our main target audience is *not* you and me who are editors and trying to maintain a lot of complex info--it's the casual user who knows the name of a breed and wants to find out more about it. They probably don't even know what FCI is, let alone a bunch of obscure numbers. I mean, that line looks like gobbledygook to me when I scan it, even thought when I put on my thinking cap and read it slowly I think I can parse what it is that it's trying to say.

:*I think that putting the FCI number is fine. Maybe format as:

::Group 1 Section 1.3 #294 (let's not use any weird/special characters like you used for No).

:* I'm still having trouble understanding why an article would link to the talk page--talk page isn't part of the article name space, it's for discussions about the article. And the FCI links should link to the breed standards, as they do now, not to some other ___location within wikipedia, IMHO. But maybe i'm misunderstanding what you're asking.

:*I'm not sure about a picture indicator. You're saying put something like:

::*Affenpinscher (P)

::*Afghan Hound (P)

::*Aidi

::? I'm not convinced. I don't think "P" would be the right thing--it's too nebulous an indicator. ("What the heck does 'P' mean anyway, Marsha?") But I don't know what else could be used. They could always just go to the [[Wikipedia:List of images/Nature/Animals/Dogs]] to see what images exist.

::[[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 05:35, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

<br>

:::Thank you for the detailed answer. I realised that the the de:, da:, is: maight be overloaded with information. It is hard to have a balance between all the different needs. I also tray to find out what could be learned from the dog breed project for other Wikipedias and '''what information would be helpfull for English visitors''' for example in an Italian, Spanish and so on Wikipedia. I started two weeks ago with non latin Wikipedias as Japanease and Hebrew. Belive me it is tricky to realise that articles about Griffin, Boxer, Pointer, Afgan are only disambiguations and to pay attention that you see a redirect from an ''old'' list and to fix it.

:::Listening to many / all alternative names for any of the Wikipedias is not a good idea either. But I think it would be a great help to recognise somthing in a ''foreign'' list, also for visitors from outside en.wikipedia. I know only two Finnish words and would be lost without help. Listening the FCI name is a help which is there without beeng forced to ask sombody or to open tens of articles. This is why the is: list shows the ''original'' FCI names when for the main aricle an Icelandic word is used as ''Bendir'' for ''Pointer''.

:::At [[:de:]] we are thinking to show also the disambiguations as [[Chihuahua]] ([[Chihuahua (dog)|dog]]). It is up to the visitor to choose what he wants to see.

:::(P) from picture was introduced by user [[:de:Benutzer:Caronna|de:Caronna]] to track his ''own'' work over two months. It is / was '''only an indication''' and these schould be used carefully. If only 20 pictures are missing it is fine to have a known central place to list them and to <strike>strike</strike> those solved in common. But again information should be found quickly without opening the list with all pictures and search there.

:::The indication to the talk page is olso a working help intended for the other Wikipedias. I do not know any efficient way to have an overview about talks for 200 articles. This is difficult to remember and if you make a two, three day brake you will probably not know where to start.

:::Group 1 Section 1.3 #294 . Thanks! Can we abbreviate it in some way?

:::A final remark: The list (the lists if we think about a list by countries) can not compete with database implementations as done on many dog breed sites. To find a compromise beteween simple enumerations and sofisticated representations is not easy and I am convinced that we can agree on some basic roles. It would be nice to have these basic ''features'' in the in other Wikipedia lists to. This only preserves the common look and feel of the Wikipedias. Regards [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 10:42, 2004 Nov 2 (UTC)

I agree with Elf on all this. To be more specific:

*I don't think we need to add all the information about image availability, FCI category and so on - that's what the articles are for. The dog breed list should be as simple and as useable ''for the reader'' as possible.

*As Elf says, the talk pages are simply for discussing aspects of the articles as needed, they not part of the article and shouldn't be linked to from the article (except as the usual link) or from the main breed list.

*I am not sure if the suggestion for adding the FCI number is to the individual articles or to the dog breeds list - if it's to the articles, then I think that's a good idea.

The important thing to remember, as Elf says, is that we are writing for our readers - not for people making interwiki links. I think cooperation between Wikipedias is important, so I don't want to discourage you, but each is also an individual encyclopaedia - which shouldn't try to be exactly the same (articles are not usually direct translations of each other for example, although sometimes that's a good starting point). Perhaps one way of gathering the information you are looking for is to make a page in your user space or on a sub page of the wikiproject and keep a list there. You could link to it from this talk page and from the talk page of the list of dog breeds - perhaps right at the top so it doesn't get lost in the conversation. -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 19:56, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

:Yes, I want to make clear that I meant that I felt that the FCI number could go in the breed table, not on the [[list of dog breeds]] page. [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 20:46, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

:Another thing--you said you were considering doing disambigs like this: [[Chihuahua]] ([[Chihuahua (dog)|dog]])--I find that *very* confusing. If we're talking about a dog, I'd expect Chihuaha to go to the chihuahua-the-dog link; if "dog" were a separate word, I'd expect it to go to the "dog" article. I would never, ever expect to go to the city in Mexico in that context. If you really want to let them go to the city or the breed, the reader will likely be much less confused with "[[Chihuahua|Chihuahua (city)]] or [[Chihuahua (dog)]]". [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 21:44, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

== Anchors ==

*I would like to let you know about the usage of [[Anchor|anchors]] ([[Wikipedia:Hyperlink]]) as explained in [[meta:Help:Link#Linking to a page]]. I added <nowiki><div id="Contents"></div></nowiki> at the top. Please tray and click at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dog breeds#Contents]]. Regards [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 03:17, 2004 Nov 2 (UTC)

::This is probably better than linking by subsection name, because if an editor changes the subsection name (which often happens) then the link just goes back to the top of the article, whereas having an explicit link name coded in place would more likely ensure that the link remains good. But I don't know how often we really want to be linking to things that aren't subhead-level. [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 05:51, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

----

*An example of a greather list is available at [[:is:Notandi:Gangleri/test/Snið:Flokkatré]]. This list is showing the three of Icelandic categories. Please look also at the notes starting from [[:is:Notandaspjall:Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason#comments_regarding_Sni.C3.B0:Flokkatr.C3.A9|Notandaspjall:Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason#comments regarding Snið:Flokkatré]] to [[User talk:Patrick#Anchor Wikipedia:Hyperlink]]. Regards [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 09:43, 2004 Nov 8 (UTC)

==Breeds by countries==

I have thought from time to time about whether a list of breeds by country would be of interest to the general public. I think it would be, actually. I haven't done anything about it because it would be so hard to do. For example, the various serbian/balkan dogs--where would you put them without upsetting someone? "Balkans" isn't really the name of a country, it's a region. Likewise with Bichons--"Mediterranean area" would have to be the country of origin, esp. since there are some citations of origins in France or Spain or Italy--or would we list it in all places just to be safe?

And would you use the *current* country name or the name at the estimated time of origin? We could go by the FCI's country selections whenever a breed is recognized by them, but there are whole trainloads of dogs not recognized by the FCI. In other words, it would be a hard list to come up with, but it might be interesting.

I'm also not sure what the article name would be--perhaps we could do it by having a different Category for each country (sort of like there are for Writers by Country and such)--and, heck, surely there have got to be getting on close to 1000 breeds out there, so some of the categories might be lightly populated, but others would be quite full. Just sort of thinking out loud now, and it might also addresss some of what Gangleri's trying to do, too. [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 05:48, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

::Personaly I think searching for dogs by countries / regions could be done having both categories for countries where more then '''n''' dogs come from and a list where the others are listed and the categories mentioned. This keeps the list small enough. It is also a good starting point to check for dogs in Wikipedias for that language.

::[[Akita Inu]] could be in [[:Category:Japan]] same as [[Icelandic Sheepdog]] is in [[:Category:Iceland]]. If other people decide about the category system for animals from that country they can move them. Regards [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 12:35, 2004 Nov 2 (UTC)

:::I actually started this in October; meant to speak to it but maybe I never did? Just did a quick check and I have three lists written, List of Spanish, Japanese and Korean dog breeds. I started with those because it was clear that there were breeds developed in those countries but without worldwide recognition. [[User:Quill|Quill]] 23:25, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

==New dog care wikibook==

Much to my horror (because of how much time I already spend in wikiP ;-) ), there is a new Wikibook: [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Dog_Care Dog care]. I filled in the article on [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Dog_Care:Obesity obesity] and used a couple of my & sannse's breed photos as good examples--now we need examples of pathetic overweight dogs (none every show up at my agility trials, so I'll have to sneak up on my unsuspecting friends' dogs)! [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 18:34, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

::I'm pathetically overweight. Perhaps I could photoshop a dog's head on my body. ''Imagine this man were a dog. Don't do this.''[[User:Wcrowe|The Dogfather]] 22:15, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

:::Now *that* idea is pathetic. :-) [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 01:30, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

::::Ha, ha, ha! That ''is'' funny! On a serious note, I have never explored Wikibooks and I'm staying right away, I spend too much time here as it is. [[User:Quill|Quill]] 02:54, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

== Janus lists of dog breeds ==

*Dear friends, please take a look at both [[User:Gangleri/tests/list]] and [[User:Gangleri/tests/list (maintenance)]].

*It was tricky to make this [[Janus (mythology)|Janus]] list as you can read at [[User talk:Patrick#Janus article]].

*I invested so much efforts on this issue because I beleive, that information is spread over to many places. There is no immediate need to implement it because a template can be used in actual Wikimedia version only for times in an article. However this will change with version 1.4. Regards [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 12:24, 2004 Nov 5 (UTC)

**Interesting. What we really would want in an ideal world is something like the little arrows or plus/minus signs next to lists in more robust user interfaces (such as Windows or Mac OS) where you click on it and it provides an expanded view of the thing you're looking at and click again to rehide the detail. We're not asking for a lot-- ;-) [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 16:42, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

----

*For different participants in a project beside the "''normal''" list [[User:Gangleri/tests/list]] alternave maintenance lists can be defined easyly:

**[[User:Gangleri/tests/list (maintenance)]] (based on common consensus)

**[[User:Gangleri/tests/list (maintenance g)]] (very complex). Please note that only the third line (refering to [[Pug]]) provides full functionality and that the list (with more then four entries) can be implemented only starting with version 1.4. [[Bugzilla:839]] ralates to it. Regards [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 09:34, 2004 Nov 8 (UTC)

:::You're not kidding ' very complex'! My brain couldn't take that second list all in. [[User:Quill|Quill]] 20:56, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

----

*'''[[User:Gangleri/tests/list (maintenance) IMSoP]]''' is getting closer to my ideas about a 'complex' maintenance list. '''Descrtiption:'''

**"h" = '''''H'''istory''

**"l" = ''What '''l'''inks here''

**"r" = '''''R'''elated changes''

**"e" = '''''E'''dit''

**"'''T'''" = '''''T'''alk''

**"c" = Purges the '''''c'''ache'' while reloading the page. This allows updating of the page without changing / editing it. You can use "'''''action=purge'''''" if you change a template or if you define a category used in some pages (articles, categiries ...) without having the category defined. Normaly the link to that category would show in read unless you edit the article / the articles again.

*Hope that this descrtiption helps. (I could not find a better word for [[de:Legende (Karte)]].)

*Because the "''appropriate''" google links would not work anyway, I placed some sample links at the top of the list. Normaly I have up to 15 Internet Explorer windows open. One for the list, one for Google, some for the articles I link together, some for my "''stack''", one navigation file from my local PC and so on. Regards [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 01:35, 2004 Nov 9 (UTC)

== KEYWORDS ==

*Dear friends, I submitted [[bugzilla:846]] named: '''feature request: control of meta name="KEYWORDS" content="..."'''. This is an issue discused in the past. Hope that somebody from the developers would do somthing about it. My question here is about your opinion concerning the maximal number of keywords which should be supported. Regards [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] 18:05, 2004 Nov 9 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:Shortcuts|Wikipedia:Shortcut]] for this project ==

*Halló! I posted a question at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject#Wikipedia:Shortcuts for projects]].

*What would be the most suitable shortcut?

*'''WP:WPbreeds''' is misleading because cats, horses etc. are breeds as well. What about '''WP:WPdogs'''? Regards [[User:Gangleri|[[{{ns:User}}:Gangleri|Gangleri]] | [[{{ns:User_talk}}:Gangleri|T]] | [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:User talk:Gangleri|action=history}} Th]]] 02:08, 2004 Nov 11 (UTC)

:"WP:WPdogs" sounds good to me -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 12:37, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

::yeppers--me too [[User:Quill|Quill]] 00:56, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

::ditto. [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 00:00, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

::I am happy about your answers and posted [[User talk:Ram-Man#Shortcuts for WikiProjects]]. Regards [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] | [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:User talk:Gangleri|action=history}} Th] | [[{{ns:User_talk}}:Gangleri|T]] 16:27, 2004 Nov 16 (UTC)

==Quality Control transitioning quickly into Poodle hybrids discussion==

[http://www.techcentralstation.com/111504A.html Tech Central Station] yesterday published an article written by Robert McHenry, Former Editor in Chief of Encyclopædia Britannica, with his views on Wikipedia.

I agree with some of his arguments, notably the danger of erroneous, barely legible, or overly detailed information creeping into the Wikipedia. While I think this is a bigger problem for articles of a controversial nature, even within our own project (dog breeds) I have seen some examples.

The problem is becoming evident on the [[Poodle]] page, specifically in the Hybrid section. Like many popular breeds, Poodles have been crossed with any number of other breeds, sometimes on purpose and sometimes accidentally. Is it really necessary to list every different combination which may be in existence?

Growing up, my canine friend was part Poodle, part Spitz. He was a great family pet, but apart from this mundane fact, his pedigree was hardly notable. Looking at the list, I see that we have a Cockapoo and a Spoodle, both of which are described as being Poodle/Cocker Spaniel crosses. Oh, what fun Mr. McHenry would have with this list. What’s next, the Labradobradoodle (Lab/Doberman/Poodle)? Or maybe the Puliwoolipoo (Puli/Wolfhound/Poodle)? How about the Spinonebaloneytollypoo (Spinone/Balognese/Toller/Poodle)?

Am I being too much of a curmudgeon?[[User:Wcrowe|The Dogfather]] 20:30, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

:Are you? Not in my little opinion. This is one of my big Wikipeeves, articles ruined with minutia that render them unbalanced (i.e. one section suddenly contains incredible amounts of detail, another has just one 'bare bones' sentence), and articles in which the author has placed one or two examples suddenly added to so that there's a list where an article should be. I agree with you entirely when it comes to the [[poodle]] article, which was literate and well-written in its original form, or at least in its orginal form with a few tweaks, which I think is the Wikipedia's greatest strength. We should probably rethink why [[pudelpointer]], which is a recognized breed is in the same list with [[scottiepoo]], of which I've never heard?

:Maybe we could have a [[dog show]] for a pomeranian/collie/Irish Wolfhound/Corgi/labradoodle/Bosanski Ostrodlaki Gonic Barak? It would be a ‘Polllie-woli-doodle-odla’ Day!

:Thanks for the link to that article, which I'll read, and for the chuckle, which I can always use!

:[[User:Quill|Quill]] 02:22, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

::I fear that I am probably guilty of adding minutiae from time to time. However, in my defense, I do try to add only that which I feel is important, and I try my best to get it to flow with the original article. Yet, I'm beginning to think that I would like to remove some of those edits, as they are probably not as important as I originally thought.[[User:Wcrowe|The Dogfather]] 03:37, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

:I've thought for a while that we might actually want a "poodle hybrids" article, but haven't thought so so firmly that I've actually done it. I think we might want entries (or redirs) for many of these mixes because they so often appear in pets-for-sale listings and people might want to know what they are. Most other breed mixess don't cause the coining of names quite as much (e.g., "lab mix", "shepherd/chihuahua", etc.) so it hasn't been an issue.

:I really enjoyed polllie-woli etc--thanks for the big laugh! [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 05:16, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

::I went ahead and added a poodle hybrids page. I also edited the Poodle article, fixing some of the things that were bothering me. I hope the edits meet with everyone's approval, but if they don't, I'm not going to fight about it. [[Grace Hopper]] used to say that it was easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission, so there you have it.[[User:Wcrowe|The Dogfather]] 16:31, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

:As they say, '''be bold'''. Looks good. [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 21:17, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

::Now here's a bit of a radical one... what about merging all the text from ''all'' the doodle/poo articles into the new [[Poodle hybrids]] page. Then making all the old pages redirects. On the plus side I think this would balance and clarify our coverage. On the down side, it would be unpopular with some contributors. What do you think? -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 22:35, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC) (polllie-woli... heh!)

:Hmmm, interesting thought. I'm going to ponder for a while before offering an opinion. [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 22:45, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

::I like the idea of merging all the hybrids to one page, but as you say, it won't be popular.[[User:Wcrowe|The Dogfather]] 00:55, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

:::I like the idea too. Would make the job of editing out unsubstantiated or biased material much easier for Dog Project contributors--or would it? We may have a lot of -oodle and -poo owners placing stubs or substubs at the Redirects. It might be all right if we make no judgements on the various SWFs and keep the sections really factual and neutral. We might consider leaving [[labradoodle]] as it is just because of the amount of hassle we'll get if we don't. Not sure, but would vote 'yea' at present. [[User:Quill|Quill]] 03:00, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

::After discovering the [[Pooter]] article, I'm more & more in favor of a single article for the off-the-wall hybrids. But cockapoo & labradoodle seem to be so common (and have been for years) that they might still deserve their own. (E.g., "cockapoo" is actually in Webster's with an origin date of 1970; "labradoodle" isn't but it seems to be quite commonly used in the want ads around here.) [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 20:48, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

:::As you say, cockapoo is pretty common, and there are a lot of people trying to get the labradoodle to breed true, i.e., it is a serious breeding project. But listing every possible mix that exists is just ridiculous. Pooter? They must be joking.[[User:Wcrowe|The Dogfather]] 22:12, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

::::Just saw Pooter. This is out of control and must be stopped. I need a brandy....[[User:Quill|Quill]] 23:25, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

::::Would that be a [[Briard|BRiard]] crossed with a [[Newfoundland (dog)|NewfoundlAND]] and a [[husky|huskY]]? [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 00:11, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

:::::Hee, hee--good one, Elf. [[User:Quill|Quill]] 09:08, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

::::I took action on the Pooter thing. Somebody will probably get mad, but this is an encyclopedia people, not a blog.[[User:Wcrowe|The Dogfather]] 03:56, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

::::(Edit)The more I think about it, the more I think ''we been had''. It was probably someone's idea of a joke. Simple vandalism. How does one get a page deleted?[[User:Wcrowe|The Dogfather]] 04:25, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

:::::Agreed. I 'googled' it too. I'm a sucker....[[User:Quill|Quill]] 09:08, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

:[[Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion#VfD_footer|How to get an article deleted]]. [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 00:05, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

==New [[breed registry]] article==

I started this article. I'm not a real expert on this subject, so any corrections & additional information would be very helpful. Go to it! [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 20:48, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

== Missing Images ==

Er...do we really need that gigantic blue template that [[user:FirstPrinciples|FirstPrinciples]] has felt the need to go adding to several dog TALK pages? [[User:Quill|Quill]] 21:31, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

:My question is: has there really been a request for more poodle pictures? And who is requesting them?[[User:Wcrowe|The Dogfather]] 03:04, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

== [[Pooter]] ==

Okay, Elf, I followed that votes for deletion thingy. Have no idea if I did it right. (Got lost on the VfD page, scrolled down and there's instruction after instruction...when it got to the part about putting the new date's section in...well, that was it for me....) [[User:Quill|Quill]] 23:36, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)