Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ed Winters: Difference between revisions
Content deleted Content added
No edit summary |
Black Kite (talk | contribs) →Ed Winters: Closed as delete (XFDcloser) |
||
| (15 intermediate revisions by 6 users not shown) | |||
Line 1:
<div class="boilerplate afd vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color: #F3F9FF; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
===[[:Ed Winters]]===▼
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.''
<!--Template:Afd top
Note: If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to re-nominate an article for deletion, you must manually edit the AfD nomination links to create a new discussion page using the name format of [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PAGENAME (2nd nomination)]]. When you create the new discussion page, please provide a link to this old discussion in your nomination. -->
The result was '''delete'''. The !keep votes are from accounts that are very unconvincing - indeed, I'll be off to SPI for one of them soon. [[User_talk:Black Kite|Black Kite (talk)]] 00:11, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
▲===[[:Ed Winters]]===
<noinclude>{{AFD help}}</noinclude>
:{{la|Ed Winters}} – (<includeonly>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ed Winters|View AfD]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2018
:({{Find sources AFD|Ed Winters}})
One minor news article, the rest are his sources for making money. Small number of followers. Doesn't appear to meet [[WP:GNG]]. [[User:JamesG5|JamesG5]] ([[User talk:JamesG5|talk]]) 14:26, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
Line 12 ⟶ 17:
*'''Keep''' per Den... [[User:Morgan Ginsberg|Morgan Ginsberg]] ([[User talk:Morgan Ginsberg|talk]]) 01:09, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' It meets notability criteria for a notable person and is founder of a notable grassroots animal rights organization, with worldwide activists. Also, large amount of YouTube followers: 127,500. [[User:Steven02511]] [[Signed]] <!--Template:Undated--><small class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 03:49, 20 October 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> [[User:Steven02511|Steven02511]] ([[User talk:Steven02511|talk]]) 04:45, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
*{{Strikethrough|'''Delete''' There are zero reliable sources in the article. As far as I can see, there are only two RSs out there that could be used, [https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2018/feb/16/london-fashion-week-fur-set-fly-animal-rights-activists-protests The Guardian] and [https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/vandalism-vigils-vegans-divided-get-people-to-quite-meat_us_5babe4cbe4b091df72ecf391 HuffPost]. But I don't think those two are sufficient. Maybe if Winters were the main subject of each, but alas, he is not. We have to follow [[WP:GNG]] here. [[User:HelloMultiverse|HelloMultiverse]] ([[User talk:HelloMultiverse|talk]]) 15:02, 20 October 2018 (UTC)}} <small>— [[User:HelloMultiverse|HelloMultiverse]] ([[User talk:HelloMultiverse|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/HelloMultiverse|contribs]]) has made [[Wikipedia:Single-purpose account|few or no other edits]] outside this topic. </small>
**'''Keep''' as long as the Daily Telegraph, Guardian, Huffingtonpost, Evening Standard, Sun, and Metro sources listed below by [[User:Den...|Den...]] are included. [[User:HelloMultiverse|HelloMultiverse]] ([[User talk:HelloMultiverse|talk]]) 13:39, 22 October 2018 (UTC) <small>— [[User:HelloMultiverse|HelloMultiverse]] ([[User talk:HelloMultiverse|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/HelloMultiverse|contribs]]) has made [[Wikipedia:Single-purpose account|few or no other edits]] outside this topic. </small>
*probably delete, appears to be [[WP:PROMO]] for a non-notable activist. Org he founded, [[Surge activism]], may not be notable either.[[User:E.M.Gregory|E.M.Gregory]] ([[User talk:E.M.Gregory|talk]]) 23:57, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Fails [[WP:GNG]] and [[WP:PROMO]]. The sources listed above merely mention him or briefly interview him. They do not cover him significantly. The sources on the page don't either, they're links to help him make money as the nominator pointed out - one is to his freaking ''Patreon'' account, which is a clear showing [[WP:PROMO]] has been violated. Also, you don't pass [[WP:N]] through the number of Youtube subscribers you have... [[User:SportingFlyer|SportingFlyer]] ''<span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User talk:SportingFlyer|talk]]</span>'' 06:53, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
Line 19 ⟶ 24:
*'''Comment'''. I think that if this article would have been written as a promotional piece it would have included details that are also included in his personal page or in his twitter account. It would also make him look as the Rockstar of the activist world. But it does not. It is succinct, outdated and it lacks lots of data that is relevant.
:When dealing with [[WP:BLP|current]]
:Here are the ones I found together with the ones mentioned above (for perspective). All of these sources fit within what internal discussion in WP has already identified as reliable sources (see [[Wikipedia:Suggested sources|here]] and [[Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources/Perennial sources|here]]).
Line 33 ⟶ 38:
:Montreal Times: [http://mtltimes.ca/Montreal/entertainment/festivals/2018-montreal-vegan-festival-what-to-expect/ here].
:<s>In scholarly circles, at least: one [http://arconference.org/speakerbios.htm here]. </s>(as per [[User:E.M.Gregory|E.M.Gregory]] below)
:This list is not counting the myriads of references to lesser reliable sources like the [https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5398466/school-raises-piglets-killed-pupils-priestlands-lymington/ Sun], [https://metro.co.uk/2017/02/15/should-fur-be-banned-from-london-fashion-week-6450491/ Metro], or business [https://fashionunited.uk/news/fashion/petition-calls-on-the-bfc-to-ban-fur-from-london-fashion-week/2017021523556 news], and publications dealing with animal rights or vegan [https://www.livekindly.co/20-cities-global-animal-rights-march/ activism]. There is something fishy when a brand-new account plunges into AfD debates saying, “Zero reliable sources.” Obviously, this is a statement that cannot be supported by evidence now. [[User:Den...|Den...]] ([[User talk:Den...|talk]]) 16:45, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
Line 41 ⟶ 46:
*'''Delete''' as [[WP:PROMO]] for a YouTube activist. Hits in my searches in searches are overwhelmingly to a non-notable animal rights activist website [https://www.plantbasednews.org/about-us] to which Winters contributes. Hits in RS media are mere mentions of his participation in protests and politically-motivated acts of vandalism. Fails [[WP:ANYBIO]], fails [[WP:SIGCOV]].[[User:E.M.Gregory|E.M.Gregory]] ([[User talk:E.M.Gregory|talk]]) 12:10, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
*'''Note''' that article creator Steven02511 had created 9 pages, 3 of which have been deleted, 1 is currently at AfD [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Surge activism]], and, with one exception, the others have been tagged for notability ([[Confessions of a Sociopath]], [[Lethal Eviction]], [[Anonymous for the voiceless]].[[User:E.M.Gregory|E.M.Gregory]] ([[User talk:E.M.Gregory|talk]]) 12:10, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
::'''Reply''' {{re|E.M.Gregory}} perhaps you could agree that editors with an idiosyncratic track record may also at times compose indispensable and conventional articles. [[User:Den...|Den...]] ([[User talk:Den...|talk]]) 13:53, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
:::Your editing record, and record is certainly, er... unusual. As are the editing records of [[User:Steven02511]] and [[User:Morgan Ginsberg]].[[User:E.M.Gregory|E.M.Gregory]] ([[User talk:E.M.Gregory|talk]]) 14:03, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
{{od}} As I explained in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Harlem_Children_Society&diff=prev&oldid=865209731&diffmode=source this] other comment, in which I thanked you for pointing me to the error of [[WP:CITEKILL]], I asked you to assume good faith from my part ([[WP:GF]]), not to plant doubts about my intentions in order to gain ground with your arguments. I have no stake here at all. I have presented my views and evidences, and wish you all well. [[User:Den...|Den...]] ([[User talk:Den...|talk]]) 17:13, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
*{{re|E.M.Gregory}} I've participated in several AFDs recently. I have nothing to gain if this article stays article stays up nor will I be bothered if it gets deleted. [[User:Morgan Ginsberg|Morgan Ginsberg]] ([[User talk:Morgan Ginsberg|talk]]) 08:33, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />
<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Ad Orientem|Ad Orientem]] ([[User talk:Ad Orientem|talk]]) 01:52, 27 October 2018 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div><!-- Please add new comments below this line -->
<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />'''Relisting comment:''' Still appears to be a reasonably split consensus, primarily on whether the sources provided are sufficient<br />
<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Nosebagbear|Nosebagbear]] ([[User talk:Nosebagbear|talk]]) 22:38, 2 November 2018 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div><!-- Please add new comments below this line -->
*Fails [[WP:SIGCOV]]. Revisiting. Articles in the list above are mere trivial mentions. non-blueliked publication [[Montreal Times]]: "Ed Winters (Earthling Ed), will be speaking about his activism." (at the not-major-event "Montreal Vegan Festival.) HuffPost quotes him as founder of the non-notable - and recently deleted - [[Surge activism]]. [[The Guardian]] does a little more, "Ed Winters, the co-director of Surge, which orchestrated anti-fur demonstrations that attracted more than 250 people in September, a rise from 120 the previous catwalk season and 25 in September 2016, said 'we expect those numbers to continually rise'". but getting 250 people to a demonstration DOES NOT notability confer. Daily Telegraph is similar: "'It seems strange that although the majority of British society is against the use of fur, it is still being given a platform at London fashion week,' said Ed Winters, co-director of Surge." Then there is the turkey thing: [https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/vegan-activists-clash-with-police-after-hundreds-of-turkeys-escape-trailer/ar-BBGojTy Vegan activists clash with police after hundreds of turkeys escape trailer] "Ed Winters, also known as Earthling Ed, a vegan activist who was at the scene, told of how he was allowed to keep one turkey on his Facebook page." To me, this looks like [[WP:PROMO]] for a non-notable activist. Fails [[WP:BASIC]]; [[WP:SIGCOV]].[[User:E.M.Gregory|E.M.Gregory]] ([[User talk:E.M.Gregory|talk]]) 12:55, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
*'''Note''': [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Steven02511]] on article creator.[[User:E.M.Gregory|E.M.Gregory]] ([[User talk:E.M.Gregory|talk]]) 13:08, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
**'''Note this too''': ''it was [[User:E.M.Gregory|E.M.Gregory]] who accused me in that same case of sockpuppeting and confabulating to manipulate the vote in this AfD, implying I was an interested party, but there is no foundation'' (can't speak for the others). It was an accusation done in haste. Look for yourself at the [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Steven02511|interaction tools]] and notice the lack of relation. If you had access to my IP address, you would see I am on the other side of the Atlantic, on a smaller island, and have nothing to do with the subject at hand. However, that is not necessary. You only need to study my [[Special:Contributions/Den...|contributions]] and compare them with the others. English is not even my first language, which you should have noticed by now before raising a finger against me. I only wanted to find out about the AfD, learn something new, and amicably share my thoughts but then met your unwarranted denunciation. It does not feel welcoming anymore. Arbitrarily blaming those whom you disagree with of sockpuppeting may work as a weapon to clear the field of your opposites and deviate attention away from their arguments, but is still low. {{ping|E.M.Gregory}}, I can't help but to wonder if you have an ax to grind here. If that is not the case, you have shown me an unfriendly way of debating in AfD. [[User:Den...|Den...]] ([[User talk:Den...|talk]]) 04:59, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' as failing [[WP:GNG]] and [[WP:NOTPROMO]]. If not a paid article certainly the creator should read [[WP:ADVOCACY]] closely. [[User:Domdeparis|Dom from Paris]] ([[User talk:Domdeparis|talk]]) 16:47, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
{{clear}}
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.''<!--Template:Afd bottom--></div>
| |||