Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 April 5: Difference between revisions
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==== Category:Lists of United States Supreme Court cases by volume ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''keep'''. [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] 10:22, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Lists of United States Supreme Court cases by volume}}<br />
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Entirely redundant to [[Lists of United States Supreme Court cases by volume]], unneeded as a category. [[User:DannyS712|DannyS712]] ([[User talk:DannyS712|talk]]) 23:42, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
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*::All navigational/organizational methods have advantages and disadvantages. And I've seen the exact same arguments made against lists of this very kind with the claim that a category makes the list unnecessary. That's exactly why we have NOTDUP; to avoid wasting time on undermining one navigational method just because you happen to prefer another form. '''[[User:Postdlf|postdlf]]''' (''[[User talk:Postdlf|talk]]'') 13:31, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
* '''Keep''', these list articles obviously belong together in some kind of category. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 15:36, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
*:{{ping|Marcocapelle}} yse, they do, but the parent category, [[:Category:Lists of United States Supreme Court cases]], explicitly says {{tq|This category contains lists of United States Supreme Court cases by volume and subcategories that use other schemes.}}. {{ping|postdlf}} they are already grouped together in both the list and in the parent category. --[[User:DannyS712|DannyS712]] ([[User talk:DannyS712|talk]]) 01:18, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
::* We'd better containerize the parent category. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 14:36, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' per [[WP:NOTDUP]]. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 20:22, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
==== Category:I'm a Celebrity... (UK) contestants ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''speedily deleted''', [[WP:G4]], see [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2016_July_27]]. – [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] [[User talk:Fayenatic london|'''<span style="color: #FF0000;">L</span>'''ondon]] 08:43, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
:'''Convert''' [[:Category:I'm a Celebrity... (UK) contestants]] to article [[List of I'm a Celebrity...Get Me Out of Here! contestants (UK)]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''Listify''' - duplicate of [[List of I'm a Celebrity...Get Me Out of Here! contestants (UK)]], lists are the usual way we handle participants rather than categories. [[User:Le Deluge|Le Deluge]] ([[User talk:Le Deluge|talk]]) 19:42, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
*'''Listify''' per [[WP:DEFINING]] and previous similar CFDs e.g. [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2016_August_21#Category:Celebrity_Big_Brother_(Pinoy)_contestants|this]]. <b>[[User:DexDor|DexDor]]</b><sup> [[User talk:DexDor|(talk)]]</sup> 20:21, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
==== Category:People of Finland Swedish descent ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''delete'''. [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] 09:40, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:People of Finland Swedish descent]] to [[:Category:People of Finnish descent]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:British people of Finland Swedish descent]] to [[:Category:British people of Finnish descent]]
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*'''Oppose''' per Peterkingiron.--[[User:Darwinek|Darwinek]] ([[User talk:Darwinek|talk]]) 14:43, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per nom. & DexDor. ancestry is usually trivial and unverifiable and unless someone can point out that Finnish Swedish people do something notably differently to others, useless too. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 18:09, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Centuries of waves of European history have seen boundaries change and regimes changes. There are many town and cities in Europe where the same family could have lived in in the same house through the generations for the last four of five centuries and been at various times in multiple different countries, with several different official languages.
:Whole countries and huge empires have come and gone; some countries have moved so radically that there is little territorial continuity. ethnic and cultural groupings are very complex. Boundaries have shifted, some languages and cultures have been suppressed, and there have been mass migrations. Some minority groups have largely assimilated, others much less so.
:Some individuals and some families remain closely immersed in one part of that heritage, others much less so. This can happen even within one generation.
:So the question is how much of this vast kaleidescope of complexity Wikipedia tries to capture in its category system.
:Ten years ago, I would have been inclined to be answer "as much a possible". But I no longer think that approach is sustainable. Too few of our articles capture enough of the complexity of ethnicity and identity to allow meaningful categorisation. The binary nature of categorisation doesn't capture the vast difference between someone whose ancestors assimilated three centuries ago and someone whose family maintained the old ways until a generation ago — in categorisation policy terms, we are looking at an attribute whose [[WP:DEFINING]]ness can be anywhere from 0% to 100%, and often unclear.
:So I conclude that the category system is just to crude to do a decent enough job on on this to make such categories any more than a poorly-sourced, woefully incomplete, ill-defined and disastrously un-nuanced mishmash.
:Of course, theses issue should be discussed within the article, subject to all the usual policies: [[WP:V]], [[WP:RS]], [[WP:WEIGHT]] etc. But this is one of the jobs which the category system can't manage. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 20:11, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' There are some ethnic overalp categories that are defining and clear, like Scoth-Irish, but not this one.[[User:Johnpacklambert|John Pack Lambert]] ([[User talk:Johnpacklambert|talk]]) 22:02, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
* '''Delete'''. While the Swedish-speaking minority of Finland is a notable minority and ethnicity, this precision is irrelevant for a descent category. Individual people for which the Swedish, or Finn-Swedish background, is important according to reliable sources specific to them may deserve a double inclusion in an ethnic-based category and a Finnish-descent category, but carving out the entire group in a specific subtree is trivial. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 09:46, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
==== Category:Paramus Catholic High School alumni ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''keep'''. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 20:15, 12 April 2019 (UTC)<!-- Template:Cfd top -->
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:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Paramus Catholic High School alumni}}<br />
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' [[WP:CATDEF]] A central concept used in categorising articles is that of the defining characteristics of a subject of the article. A defining characteristic is one that reliable sources commonly and consistently define[1] the subject as having—such as nationality or notable profession (in the case of people), type of ___location or region (in the case of places), etc. For example, here: "Caravaggio, an Italian artist of the Baroque movement ...", Italian, artist, and Baroque may all be considered to be defining characteristics of the subject Caravaggio.
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*'''Keep''' -- We normally allow High School alumni categories. This one has nine members, which is enough to keep. [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 16:59, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
* While we cannot single out one particular school category, I would vote delete in a broader nomination. People of the same high school (but of different years) have nothing in common with each other. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 15:41, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
==== Category:Sinhalese script ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''rename'''. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> [[User:DannyS712|DannyS712]] ([[User talk:DannyS712|talk]]) 00:12, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Sinhalese script]] to [[:Category:Sinhala script]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Match the category name with the [[Sinhala language]] and [[Sinhala script]] articles. [[User:Danielklein|Danielklein]] ([[User talk:Danielklein|talk]]) 03:46, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
==== Brightline stations ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''rename'''. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 20:17, 12 April 2019 (UTC)<!-- Template:Cfd top -->
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:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Brightline stations]] to [[:Category:Virgin Trains USA stations]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' In line with renaming of article to reflect subject's rebranding per [[WP:C2D]]. [[User:Migle82|Migle82]] ([[User talk:Migle82|talk]]) 01:07, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
==== Brightline ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''rename'''. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 20:18, 12 April 2019 (UTC)<!-- Template:Cfd top -->
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:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Brightline]] to [[:Category:Virgin Trains USA]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' In line with renaming of main article to reflect subject's rebranding per [[WP:C2D]]. [[User:Migle82|Migle82]] ([[User talk:Migle82|talk]]) 00:57, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
==== Category:Pride of Britain Awards ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''delete'''. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 10:15, 12 April 2019 (UTC)<!-- Template:Cfd top -->
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:* '''Propose Deleting''' [[:Category:Pride of Britain Awards]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Per [[WP:SMALLCAT]]
:The [[Pride of Britain Awards]] is an annual award ceremony started in 2000. I have no conceptual problem with the category but it consists only of [[Pride of Britain Awards|the main article]] and three redirects for individual years that all point back to that same article so it doesn't aid navigation. If we don't have individual articles about each ceremony after 20 years, I don't think growth is likely but--if I'm wrong--no objection to recreating this category later. (Alternativley we could convert this to a hidden redirect category if any editors find that useful.) - [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 00:14, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
:Yes delete if no "by year" articles. [[User:Hugo999|Hugo999]] ([[User talk:Hugo999|talk]]) 01:02, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
==== Category:Latin Songwriters Hall of Fame inductees ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''delete'''. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 10:13, 12 April 2019 (UTC)<!-- Template:Cfd top -->
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:* '''Propose Deleting/Listifying''' [[:Category:Latin Songwriters Hall of Fame inductees]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Per [[WP:OCAWARD]] ([[WP:NONDEFINING]])
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:: Even I'm okay with the Grammy categories! [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 20:19, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' no objection to a sourced listification; without sources, just delete. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 18:10, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' As creator of the category. [[User:Magiciandude|Erick]] ([[User talk:Magiciandude|talk]]) 01:52, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
*'''Delete but Move existing list''' into parent categories. – [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] [[User talk:Fayenatic london|'''<span style="color: #FF0000;">L</span>'''ondon]] 21:40, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
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