Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 November 2: Difference between revisions

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==== Category:Chulalongkorn family ====

[[File:Symbol move vote.svg|16px|link=|alt=]] '''Relisted''', see [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 November 10%23Category:Chulalongkorn family]]<!-- Template:Cfd relisted -->

:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Chulalongkorn family]] to [[:Category:Family of Chulalongkorn]]

:'''Nominator's rationale:''' "Chulalongkorn" is not recognised as the name of any family by any reliable source. The title is merely descriptive, and changing the word order would make the fact clearer. (An alternative suggestion is to upmerge to [[:Category:Chakri dynasty]] and [[:Category:Chulalongkorn]], the latter of which has been recently created.) [[User:Paul_012|Paul_012]] ([[User talk:Paul_012#top|talk]]) 09:01, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

* '''Merge''', a container category with only two subcategories merely hinders easy navigation and [[:Category:Chulalongkorn]] is a perfect target. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 19:04, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />

<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] 09:28, 2 November 2019 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div><!-- Please add new comments below this line -->

==== Category:Yoruba farmers ====

[[File:Symbol move vote.svg|16px|link=|alt=]] '''Relisted''', see [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 January 6%23Category:Yoruba farmers]]<!-- Template:Cfd relisted -->

:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Yoruba farmers]] to [[:Category:Yoruba people]] / [[:Category:Nigerian farmers]]

:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Merge per [[WP:EGRS]]. I can find no proof that this "combination is itself recognized as a distinct and unique cultural topic in its own right." [[User:Namiba|TM]] 23:54, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

* '''Merge as nom'''. I guess the same could be said for most of {{C|Farmers by ethnicity}}, which has 4 other subcategories. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 04:28, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' -- The category has six members: 5 is usually regarded as a sufficient size to keep. [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 17:45, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

::Category size is not in dispute. It's whether it passes [[WP:EGRS]]. If you have evidence that it does, please post here.--[[User:Namiba|TM]] 13:08, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

*'''Merge'''; even though it has many sibling categories in [[:Category:Yoruba people by occupation]], many of which might be justifiable, I agree that no justification has been offered for this one. – [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] [[User talk:Fayenatic london|'''<span style="color: #FF0000;">L</span>'''ondon]] 22:01, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

*'''Oppose'''. This category should be kept like the others. I'm not just advocating for its existence because I created it along with its sibling categories several years ago: I have not objected to the nominator's past success in deleting related categories which I created because they became empty or were helpless before I knew what was going on. However, I have to state frankly what I see here. His proposed merging of this category is akin to disruption of Wikipedia even though some editors may not see it that way. He has neither stated any clear basis for the category failing [[WP: EGRS]] nor given any valid reason for singling it out of the category {{C|Farmers by ethnicity}} for merging. [[User:Eruditescholar|Eruditescholar]] ([[User talk:Eruditescholar|talk]]) 01:50, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

*: This is the [[WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS]] argument. However, it is up to you to demonstrate why '''this particular intersection''' is a distinct and unique cultural topic in its own right, as requested by [[WP:EGRS]]. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 16:18, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

::::The reason for mentioning other categories in the group is not intended to describe the proposed merging of {{C|Yoruba farmers}} (which happens to be the only one involved in this discussion among others) as only unfair, leading to the [[WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS]] argument. For emphasis, the category {{C|Yoruba farmers}} is a unique cultural topic in its own right because it happens to be the only one which groups farmers of [[Yoruba people|Yoruba]] ethnicity or descent irrespective of their nationality. Besides, it happens to be the only one that has ties to a specific ethnic group in Africa. The category {{C|African-American farmers}} also has ties to Africa but it is more generalized and restricted to the United States; it groups American farmers of African descent (American nationals descending from any of the African ethnic groups). The remaining categories in the category {{C|Farmers by ethnicity}}: {{C|New Zealand Māori farmers}}, {{C|Basque farmers}} and {{C|Asian-American farmers}} have no ties to Africa. Looking at it from another angle; All other categories except {{C|Yoruba farmers}} there have a direct Western link. The category {{C|Yoruba farmers}} is unique in its own right and passes [[WP:EGRS]].-[[User:Eruditescholar|Eruditescholar]] ([[User talk:Eruditescholar|talk]])

::That's not what EGRS says nor how it works. I suggest that you read the policy before making an argument.--[[User:Namiba|TM]] 17:12, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

::::Of course, I have read it. You are probably trying to counter my explanation because of the points I've raised against your proposed merging of this category. [[User:Eruditescholar|Eruditescholar]] ([[User talk:Eruditescholar|talk]]) 21:04, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

* '''Merge''' as there is apparently nothing that sets Yoruba farmers apart from other Nigerian farmers. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 21:25, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

::You are indirectly asserting that all Yoruba people are Nigerians. However, this is not the case. -[[User:Eruditescholar|Eruditescholar]] ([[User talk:Eruditescholar|talk]]) 22:43, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

::: Or from any other country if applicable. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 08:26, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />

<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] 09:28, 2 November 2019 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div><!-- Please add new comments below this line -->

*I still say '''Keep''', as I voted above. The Yoruba are an ethnic group, resident in a particular part of Nigeria. The alternative might be to restructure this as farmers from <state>. Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa, so that merging into a national category would loose the point of having a specific category. [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 17:40, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

::The intersection needs to be notable. There is no proof that Yoruba farmers are distinct from farmers in other ethnic groups. African-Americans and Asian-Americans, for example, have a unique history of being denied access to land. There is even a Wikipedia article on this for African-Americans, and a similar article could and should be written for Asian-Americans. Could this be done for Yoruba farmers? It's on those who want to keep the category to demonstrate that such an article could be written.--[[User:Namiba|TM]] 15:34, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

:::: It'll be logical for you to affirm the existence of the categories African American farmers and Asian American farmers because you are American and you mostly edit American-related articles (most of which you are likely to be informed due to your background and prior knowledge). On the other hand, the same cannot be said with Nigerian farmers because it is glaring that your knowledge of Nigerian ethnic groups is limited. I also happen to be the creator of the category {{C|Nigerian farmers}} that you are proposing to merge with {{C|Yoruba farmers}}. If this merging was necessary, I would have done that a long time ago. Looking at from your perspective (as a foreigner; I understand that it can be difficult to ascertain the ethnicity of a Nigerian farmer by mere appearance). I don't support your notion that Yoruba farmers are not distinct from other ethnicities in Nigeria. There are many cultural differences which in totality serve as their defining characteristics as well. These cultural differences become more pronounced due to the fact that all the ethnic groups live in different parts of the country. They live in different climates, speak different languages, eat their local cuisine, wear their native attires, create their artworks, etc. Even their traditional belief system is also different. (The obvious exception is intermarriage; when a Nigerian from one ethnic group marries another from a different ethnic group or culturally assimilates into the other ethnic group).[[User:Eruditescholar|Eruditescholar]] ([[User talk:Eruditescholar|talk]]) 23:17, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

::::: It goes without saying that every group is different from every other group. However, what I am referring to is a notable interesection per Wikipedia guidelines (which it still seems you are unfamiliar with despite editing on here for years). I will post here for your convenience: "Dedicated group-subject subcategories, such as Category:LGBT writers or Category:African-American musicians, should be created only where that combination is itself recognized as a distinct and unique cultural topic in its own right. If a substantial and encyclopedic head article (not just a list) cannot be written for such a category, then the category should not be created. Please note that this does not mean that the head article must already exist before a category can be created, but that it must at least be possible to create one.

Generally, this means that the basic criterion for such a category is '''whether the topic has already been established as academically or culturally significant by external sources'''. If this criterion has not been met, then the category essentially constitutes original research. Although there are exceptions, this will usually mean that categories relating to social or cultural subjects are more likely to be valid than others."--[[User:Namiba|TM]] 15:54, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

* '''Further comment''': regardless of the outcome of this discussion, the category should be purged. A number of articles are not about farmers. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 21:45, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

==== Category:Category:People educated at Ysgol Aberconwy ====

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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''keep'''. [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] 09:53, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Category:People educated at Ysgol Aberconwy}}<br />

:'''Nominator's rationale:''' category with a single article that is unlikely to be expanded. [[User:Tknifton|Tknifton]] ([[User talk:Tknifton|talk]]) 13:02, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

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* [[User:Oculi]] is obviously correct in their oppose against this particular nomination. At the same time I wonder in general if we should categorize people by secondary school. Especially biography articles often suffer from far too much category clutter, we should somehow reduce that. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 08:15, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

*'''Oppose''' -- Almost every secondary school is allowed its alumni category. [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 17:43, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Primary source digital libraries ====

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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''delete'''. [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] 11:36, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Primary source digital libraries}}<br />

:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Completely undefined. Only 3 articles, all concerned with religious texts, but all in [[:Category: American digital libraries]] [[User:Rathfelder|Rathfelder]] ([[User talk:Rathfelder|talk]]) 08:44, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

* '''<s>Weak </s>support''', to a certain extent I can buy that this is a 'thing', but probably nobody is going to find the category under this name, it is not a recognizable term nor do I know any better recognizable term. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 07:19, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

*What do you think it means? [[User:Rathfelder|Rathfelder]] ([[User talk:Rathfelder|talk]]) 08:01, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

:* Online repository of original historical documents. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 19:40, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

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<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] 09:28, 2 November 2019 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div><!-- Please add new comments below this line -->

* '''Weak keep''' - I created this category, admittedly without going to the effort to fully populate it. I thought it would be a useful subcategory of [[:Category:Digital libraries]], which currently has 1873 entries according to [https://petscan.wmflabs.org/ PetScan]. I wanted to distinguish between digital libraries comprised of primary sources like Wikisource, [[Project Gutenberg]], etc. vs. those that contain new books and original content, eg. [[:Category:Full text scholarly online databases]]. These seem like fairly different kinds of libraries. I don't see the "better categories" that {{u|Rathfelder}} refers to. [[User:Daask|Daask]] ([[User talk:Daask|talk]]) 22:42, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

:* Your understanding of its meaning seems to be the opposite of [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]]'s. I dont think it works under this name. [[User:Rathfelder|Rathfelder]] ([[User talk:Rathfelder|talk]]) 22:46, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

:::* I am striking "weak" in my original "weak support" based on this follow-up discussion. Agree with nominator Orthat fromit anydoes othernot countrywork ifthis applicableway. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 0812:2647, 210 November 2019 (UTC)

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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Maharashtra MLAs 2014– ====

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==== Category:Simplified languages ====

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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''reorganize''' per Marcocapelle. [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] 09:52, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Simplified languages]] to [[:Category:Controlled natural languages]]

:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Both categories have the same amount of articles, have the same meaning, etc. --[[User:Soumya-8974|Soumyabrata]] ([[User talk:Soumya-8974|talk]] • [[Special:PrefixIndex/User:Soumya-8974|subpages]]) 15:12, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

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*'''Support''' Marco's suggestion. Simplified languages are a subset of controlled natural languages. <span style="font-weight: bold">[[User:Fiamh|Fiamh]] ^{([[User talk:Fiamh|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/Fiamh|contribs]])}</span> 23:54, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Radio ====

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==== Category:Unknown origin craters ====

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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''delete'''. [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] 09:50, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Unknown origin craters}}<br />

:'''Nominator's rationale:''' [[WP:SMALLCAT|small category]] and [[WP:OCMISC|miscellaneous category]]. This is not eligible for speedy deletion because I already emptied it out of process while cleaning up various categories into impact, volcanic or explosion craters, which avoids recurring confusion around unspecified "craters". See also the [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2009_August_22#Category:Craters|2009 mass-renaming CfR of crater-related categories]] which I was the nominator for, which was the first time this kind of crater category cleanup was done. (Do I need to write an essay on categorization of craters?) [[User:Ikluft|Ikluft]] ([[User talk:Ikluft|talk]]) 05:04, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

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::::: I understand you're trying to act in [[WP:AGF|good faith]] but you are actually promoting confusion from a point of misinterpretation. Of the articles you listed, [[Patomskiy crater]] uses the term crater colloquially; but of its 2 references, one speculates about UFOs and the other says a meteoric origin was disproven, leading to questions whether the article even qualifies for [[WP:N]]. [[Eden Patera]] is satisfactorily categorized in [[:Category:Surface features of Mars]] until reliable sources sort out if it's from volcanic or impact origin. The article called [[crater]] is a disambiguation page, leaving no official [[WP:DEFINING]] characteristic for the category to stand on, except also as a disambiguation. The English dictionary ([https://www.dictionary.com/browse/crater?s=t], [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/crater]) only supports impact, volcanic and explosion craters. ''Anything else is not a crater.'' Please stop promoting the recurring confusion over this topic. It has been solved already and needs to not re-emerge. [[User:Ikluft|Ikluft]] ([[User talk:Ikluft|talk]]) 01:38, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

::::: One benefit to result from this discussion - I took this to indicate the question will easily resurface if not answered plainly up front, and added the dictionary definition of a crater, requiring it be caused by some kind of explosion, to the [[User:Ikluft/essay/Categorization_of_craters|"Categorization_of_craters" essay]]. [[User:Ikluft|Ikluft]] ([[User talk:Ikluft|talk]]) 21:32, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Subsidence craters ====

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==== Category:Cricket portals ====

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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge'''. [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] 09:51, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Cricket portals]] to [[:Category:Sports and games portals]] and [[:Category:Cricket]]

:'''Nominator's rationale:''' [[WP:SMALLCAT]]. Contains only one page: [[Portal:Cricket]]. [[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 02:35, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

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*: Oh, yes. I forgot to check that. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] 😼 </span> 08:27, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

:::You're right here, SMcC. [[:Category:Cricket]] added to the nom as a merge target. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 15:44, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Slovenian female comics artists ====