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|style="font-size: 85%;" align="center"|There used to be an paragraph at [[Wikipedia:Talk pages]] recommending that conversations be kept contiguously on one page ("How to keep a two-way conversation readable").[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Talk_pages&direction=prev&oldid=46439252] However, after a judicious piece of redirecting back and forth, it has been wiped out. Nevertheless, while I know some people carry on conversations across two User talk pages, I find this ludicrous and unintuitive. Conversations started on my talk page will most likely be continued on my talk page, while those I start on other users' pages will be continued on their pages.
|style="font-size: 85%; font-size: {{{id-s|8}}}pt;"|<center>'''For issues specific to Mitsubishi, please [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DeLarge/Mitsubishi&action=edit&section=new click here] and leave your message on my [[User talk:DeLarge/Mitsubishi|dedicated talk sub-page]]'''.</center>
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|style="font-size: 85%; font-size: {{{id-s|8}}}pt;"|<center>NOTE: I know some people carry on conversations across two User talk pages. I find this ludicrous and unintuitive, and would much prefer to follow Wikipedia's recommendations (see [[Help:Talk page#How to keep a two-way conversation readable|How to keep a two-way conversation readable]]). Conversations started here will be continued here, while those I start on other users' pages will be continued there. If a user replies to a post of mine on this page, I will either cut/paste the text to their page, or (more likely) copy/paste from their page to this one and continue it here.</center>
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{| class="infobox plainlinks" widthstyle="250width:15em"
|<div style="padding-top: 4px; text-align:center">{{{image|[[Image:golden file cabinet.png|{{{image-width|80px}}}|Archive]]}}}'''</div>
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{{Archives|collapsed=yes|image=none|search=no|
!align="center"|[[Image:Vista-file-manager.png|50px|Archive]]
[[/Archive 1|#1: 2006, May–June]]<br/>
[[Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|Archives]]
[[/Archive 2|#2: 2006, July–August]]<br/>
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[[/Archive 3|#3: 2006, September–October]]<br/>
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[[/Archive 4|#4: 2006, November–December]]<br/><br/>
|align="center"|[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}/Archive 1|Archive 1, May&ndash;June 2006]]
[[/Archive 5|#5: 2007, January–June]]<br/>
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[[/Archive 6|#6: 2007, July–December]]<br/><br/>
|align="center"|[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}/Archive 2|Archive 2, July&ndash;August 2006]]
[[/Archive 7|#7: 2008, January–June]]<br/>
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[[/Archive 8|#8: 2008, July–December]]<br/><br/>
|align="center"|[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}/Archive 3|Archive 3, September&ndash;October 2006]]
[[/Archive 9|#9: 2009, January–June]]<br/>
[[/Archive 10|#10: 2009, July–December]]<br/><br/>
[[/Archive 11|#11: 2010, January–December]]<br/><br/>
[[/Archive 12|#12: 2011, January–December]]<br/><br/>
[[/Archive 13|#13: 2012, January–?]]
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==Freshwater==
''(originally posted at [[User talk:RobertG]])''<br>
I only just noticed this rename request after you did it, but as per the [[fresh water]] article (and its talk page), "fresh water" is a noun, "freshwater" is an adjective. In this context therefore, it should surely not have been split into two words when being renamed? Sorry I couldn't have noticed this sooner... ''--[[User:DeLarge|DeLarge]] 11:31, 30 October 2006 (UTC)''
:Hi! After I read your message I checked, and I found that on Merriam-Webster freshwater is actually both a noun and an adjective, but that's US usage: in British English ''is'' "freshwater" used? Scotland uses British English. Even if the move was superfluous, would the reverse move not be equally superfluous? In any case, if you feel strongly perhaps you could take it back to CFD? Best wishes, --[[User:RobertG|RobertG]] &#9836; [[User talk:RobertG|talk]] 16:46, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hi! Just to help on this question. We do infact use the wording freshwater in the UK not fresh water, which would generally be used when saying such as "This is fresh water". to use fresh water when refering to rivers and Islands in the lochs would be incorrect. I spend a lot of time diving and doing underwater photography in Scottish Freshwater Lochs and rivers. I have accordingly placed some external links to freshwater & UK environmental agency websites on the [[Fresh water]] article, redirected [[List of fresh water islands in Scotland]] to [[List of freshwater islands in Scotland]] and sorted the category [[:Category:Fresh water islands of Scotland]] to [[:Category:Freshwater islands of Scotland]] as well as the associated linked articles. [[User:Richard Harvey|Richard Harvey]] 23:59, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Oh Jeeeez, what a mess. I guess I just "got involved". ''--[[User:DeLarge|DeLarge]] 21:34, 1 November 2006 (UTC)''
::::Hey, no big mess, don't fret! I put it back to how it was, simply because cutting and pasting is not a valid way to do a page move (it loses the page's edit history), and then submitted the whole thing to CFD for a rename; I think that "freshwater" is probably best, but it needs a consensus. I will leave a message for Richard too. Best wishes, [[User:RobertG|RobertG]] &#9836; [[User talk:RobertG|talk]] 09:04, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 
==Qian Zhijun==
Hi, Delarge! I would like to inform you that now [[Qian Zhijun]] and [[Little Fatty]] now have articles. Or rather, they are ''back''.
They both survived a DRV. An administrator speedied them since I had started the articles even though I had not started a discussion on whether there is enough evidence to allow subjects to be restored. I started a thread on the BLP noticeboard inquiring about this, the discussion moved to DRV, and after a lot of effort from not only me, but a Singaporean ([[User:Lonelydarksky]]) who helped translate articles in Chinese so I could use them as sources, the articles were restored as a result of the DRV. I must add that I cannot thank the Singaporean enough for helping me with this. The people involved in the 2007 discussions/etc not only failed to examine the sources to check for signs of in-depth analysis, but they also failed to consult Chinese speaking users to get their assistance.
 
After both articles were restored, to "Little Fatty" I added additional sources from academic journal articles that demonstrate notability from the academic world. Please take a look at them.
==WRC==
[[User:WhisperToMe|WhisperToMe]] ([[User talk:WhisperToMe|talk]]) 05:02, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for your efforts on the WRC articles. I have worked on these a lot in the past but got caught up in my work for the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels|WP:Novels]]. Is there any mileage in setting up a proper WikiProject as the Formula 1 project, but probably "a more modest" effort. :: [[User:Kevinalewis|<span style="color: #33C;">Kevinalewis</span>]] : [[User talk:Kevinalewis|<span style="color:#CC9900"><sup>(Talk Page)</sup></span>]]/[[User:Kevinalewis/Desk|<span style="color:#CC9900"><sub>(Desk)</sub></span>]] 17:40, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
* Anyway, I e-mailed Badlydrawnjeff. He told me that he felt strangely vindicated by the matter. [[User:WhisperToMe|WhisperToMe]] ([[User talk:WhisperToMe|talk]]) 17:25, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
:I've thought about it, but don't know if it'd be worth it. Aside from [[User:SndrAndrss]]'s repeated attempts to drag his knuckles up to his keyboard so he can insert incorrect event dates all over the place despite the ample verifiable evidence contradicting him, no-one seems really interested in contributing to past years. No point in a formal Wikiproject if there's only two or three members. Seems a shame, but then Wikipedia's full of teenage troglodytes only interested in the here and now. Historical records are reserved for Britannica, which explains the lack of so much as a stub here for multiple [[RAC Rally]] winner [[Roger Clark]] until I created one, but an entire well-populated [[:Category:Professional wrestling moves|category of professional wrestling moves]]. John Cena pwnz U d00d, etc etc. Sigh... ''--[[User:DeLarge|DeLarge]] 21:34, 1 November 2006 (UTC)''
 
::I've been following this from a distance, and was of course delighted at the outcome. Hopefully the successful DRV and article expansion will put this to bed for good. I also noticed the former Doc Glasgow (Scott Mac) has quit again, so that should end any further troubles. And I'm glad someone's let BDJ know; the way he was driven off this site after his many FA contributions was pretty unconscionable, and it ''does'' vindicate his original position. (albeit several years too late).
 
::I may just reconsider my semi-retirement now... ''--[[User:DeLarge|DeLarge]] ([[User talk:DeLarge#top|talk]]) 10:20, 28 January 2012 (UTC)''
==Proton==
:::I took some steps to make sure that the articles would remain. After "[[Little Fatty]]" was restored, I found some academic journal articles discussing "Little Fatty" and cited them, just to cement the article's notability. At least three (Wallis and the two Cheung sources) discuss the "Little Fatty" phenomenon in depth. I also found that several books talk about it too.
Funny why you can't accept the criticism, which is the truth. I as a ex-Proton owner know about it especially the car quality. You can't denial the Proton Iswara is still using the based chasis and engine from the 1985 Proton Saga. Even Proton themself accept the criticism and said they will try to improve. And you know that Lotus is bought by Tun Mahathir Mohamad and Proton is the pride of the country. Why the Waja is RM60k, and Honda City sold in Malaysia is RM80k but only RM50k in Thailand? Why Honda City get more duty & tax compare to Waja which pay less than 10% of tax from their total value? There were no direct facts but Malaysian know it. You can ask 10 Malaysian about Proton, i believe more than half will support my statement.
:::I hope that Wikipedians learn from this DRV so they understand the correct way of dealing with notability issues involving foreign subjects. While the 2011 DRV had the new Chinese sources available (as for after the DRV, the four journal articles and the book sources all came in 2009 or later), I also believe that focusing the discussion on the article content and consulting a Chinese speaker helped achieve the successful restoration.
[http://www.malaysia-today.net/Blog-e/2006/06/proton-issues-firm-replies-to.htm] <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:218.208.248.235|218.208.248.235]] ([[User talk:218.208.248.235|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/218.208.248.235|contribs]]) 16:01, November 7, 2006.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
:::[[User:WhisperToMe|WhisperToMe]] ([[User talk:WhisperToMe|talk]]) 02:34, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 
:''"Funny why you can't accept the criticism, which is the truth."'' As per [[Wikipedia:Verifiability]], "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is '''verifiability, not truth'''." Which is why your later statement, ''"There were no direct facts but Malaysian know it"'' was so damning to your case. See also [[Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not a soapbox|Wikipedia is not a soapbox]]. ''--[[User:DeLarge|DeLarge]] 16:40, 7 November 2006 (UTC)''
 
==Disambiguation link notification==
So can you prove Proton cars is reliable? And Proton car only officially export to Singapore in South East Asia, not all country in South East Asia as mention. So this is also not verifiability. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:60.48.199.129|60.48.199.129]] ([[User talk:60.48.199.129|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/60.48.199.129|contribs]]) 16:13, November 12, 2006.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
Hi. When you recently edited [[List of motor yachts by length]], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page [[Katara]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/List_of_motor_yachts_by_length|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/List_of_motor_yachts_by_length|fix with Dab solver]]). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the [[User:DPL bot/Dablink notification FAQ|FAQ]]{{*}} Join us at the [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links|DPL WikiProject]].</small>
 
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these [[User:DPL bot|opt-out instructions]]. Thanks, [[User:DPL bot|DPL bot]] ([[User talk:DPL bot|talk]]) 10:22, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
:Blah, blah, blah. Car still giving you problems, then?
:I don't ''need'' to prove that they're reliable, as I'm not bitching about the cars (or saying they're any good either). I'm merely ensuring that the article is only about the car company itself, and not about one particular editor's bad experiences with one or two individual cars.
:If you want to write something '''encyclopedic''', you could do better than to search Google for two minutes. You could end up with "According to the first quality survey of Malaysian automobiles by global marketing information services firm [[J.D. Power and Associates]] in 2003, Protons suffered from a level of reliability below the industry average.[http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2003065]" That's the difference between editing and soapboxing. ''--[[User:DeLarge|DeLarge]] 16:47, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 
:Darn it, thought I'd checked all of them. You're quite a handy little bot, aren't you? ''--[[User:DeLarge|DeLarge]] ([[User talk:DeLarge#top|talk]]) 19:05, 25 February 2012 (UTC)''
 
==License tagging for Image:DelicaD5.jpg==
Thanks for uploading [[:Image:DelicaD5.jpg]]. Wikipedia gets thousands of images uploaded every day, and in order to verify that the images can be legally used on Wikipedia, the source and copyright status must be indicated. Images need to have an [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags|image tag]] applied to the [[Wikipedia:Image description page|image description page]] indicating the copyright status of the image. This uniform and easy-to-understand method of indicating the license status allows potential re-users of the images to know what they are allowed to do with the images.
 
==DYK for A (yacht)==
For more information on using images, see the following pages:
{{tmbox
* [[Wikipedia:Image use policy]]
|style = notice
* [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags]]
|small =
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#1 March 2012|1 March 2012]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[A (yacht)]]''''', which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ''... that the [[Philippe Starck]]-designed '''''[[A (yacht)|A]]''''' has been described as both "the most extraordinary yacht launched in recent memory" and "one of the ghastliest megayachts ever created"?'' {{#if: |The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[]].|{{#ifexist:Template:Did you know nominations/A (yacht)|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/A (yacht)]].|{{#ifexist:Template talk:Did you know/A (yacht)|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template talk:Did you know/A (yacht)]].}} }} }}You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201203/A_(yacht) quick check])</small> and add it to [[WP:DYKSTATS|DYKSTATS]] if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
}} [[User:Casliber|Casliber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 00:53, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
 
Congratulations on a fantastic article! --<small>[[User:Ohconfucius|<span style="color:Black;font:bold 8pt 'kristen itc';text-shadow:cyan 0.3em 0.3em 0.1em;">Ohconfucius</span>]] [[User talk:Ohconfucius|<sup>¡digame!</sup>]]</small> 04:27, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
This is an automated notice by [[User:OrphanBot|OrphanBot]]. If you need help on selecting a tag to use, or in adding the tag to the image description, feel free to post a message at [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions]]. 00:06, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
:Thanks very much. I missed it on the main page, unfortunately, but it seems to have had plenty of views despite not being used as the lede item (with an image, which would surely have boosted it further). Anyhoo, next stop: GA-class. Regards, ''--[[User:DeLarge|DeLarge]] ([[User talk:DeLarge#top|talk]]) 13:19, 3 March 2012 (UTC)''
 
:Promotional tag now added. ''--[[User:DeLarge|DeLarge]] 00:11, 13 November 2006 (UTC)''
 
== DYKCitroen C-Zero mess ==
This might be helpful [[Wikipedia:Notability (vehicles)]] as a reference point [[User:NealeFamily|NealeFamily]] ([[User talk:NealeFamily|talk]]) 22:43, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
:Mehh. That's just an [[WP:ESSAY|essay]], and not really germane to the issue. No-one's suggesting they're not notable, or that the articles should be deleted outright. I'm just planning on having them redirected to the "original" vehicle. ''--[[User:DeLarge|DeLarge]] ([[User talk:DeLarge#top|talk]]) 23:11, 7 March 2012 (UTC)''
 
{| class="messagebox standard-talk"
|-
|[[Image:Updated DYK query.png|Updated DYK query]]
|On [[15 November]], [[2006]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[London-Sydney Marathon]]''''', which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|"Did you know?" talk page]].
|} <!-- [[{{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{CURRENTDAY}}]], [[{{CURRENTYEAR}}]] --> --[[User:GeeJo|<span style="padding : 0px 1px 1px 1px; border : 1px solid #809EF5; cursor: wait; background: #FFFFFF ; color: #99B3FF">GeeJo</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:GeeJo|(t)]]</sup>⁄<sub>[[Special:Contributions/GeeJo|(c)]]</sub> <small>&bull;&nbsp;00:05, 15 November 2006 (UTC)</small>
 
==Request==
== World Rally Championship results ==
Hi, DeLarge. I respect your reversions about website names and have contributed to dialog on the talk pages of the affected articles. I would only suggest that opening and closing the discussion at [[Slant Magazine]] on the very same day, and closing it in favor of one's own position, might have been handled more constructively. Generally these discussions stay up for a week, and generally aren't closed before someone who had made the move has had a chance to weigh in.
 
I'm respectful of your requests for formal discussion on what I had thought, perhaps incorrectly, where noncontroversial moves. I ask similar respect in that you reopen this one discussion; less than one day simply doesn't give enough interested editors adequate time to comment. I'm sure two editors of good will can work this out. With regards, --[[User:Tenebrae|Tenebrae]] ([[User talk:Tenebrae|talk]]) 03:42, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
Hello! Can you write up the race results for the World Rally Championship from 1984 to 1991
 
:Initially, I only weighed in to point out that the nominator didn't need to go through the RM process, and only decided to offer a support vote midway through typing my comment. When he said he didn't feel comfortable being so bold, I stepped forward. In retrospect, perhaps I shouldn't have bothered joining the discussion, although if I only had one edit to make, undoing the move would have been it. Nevertheless, I've re-opened the discussion. Regards, ''--[[User:DeLarge|DeLarge]] ([[User talk:DeLarge#top|talk]]) 22:12, 8 March 2012 (UTC)''
Sondre
 
::Very kind of you. Thanks. --[[User:Tenebrae|Tenebrae]] ([[User talk:Tenebrae|talk]]) 22:59, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
== Image:380vrx.jpg ==
Thanks for uploading '''[[:Image:380vrx.jpg]]'''. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under [[Wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]], but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our [[Wikipedia:Fair use criteria|first fair use criterion]] in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:
 
:::Hey, De. I've been swayed to your point, given the consensus that agrees with it at [[Talk:Comic Book Resources]] and [[Talk:Comics Bulletin]], so I'm withdrawing my requests. I do think we need to be consistent, so I hope you'll respect and support my note at those pages. I must say, it's been good working with an editor who can debate an issue calmly and rationally; even where I might initially disagree, it's nice to see the process working as it should. With regards, [[User:Tenebrae|Tenebrae]] ([[User talk:Tenebrae|talk]]) 23:48, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
# Go to [[:Image:380vrx.jpg|the image description page]] and edit it to add {{[[Template:Replaceable fair use disputed|Replaceable fair use disputed]]}}, '''without deleting the original Replaceable fair use template'''.
:No probs. However, you might want to consider your most recent page moves. I can assure you that the opposition to previous changes cannot be taken as an endorsement of your latest moves, per your apparent assumption here.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Comic_Book_Resources&diff=prev&oldid=481235876]
# On [[Image talk:380vrx.jpg|the image discussion page]], write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.
:First, check out [[WP:NCDAB]], where three suggestions for a style of disambiguation are offered. One of them is indeed <X (disambiguation term)>, but the first suggestion says ''"When there is another term or more complete name... that is equally clear and is unambiguous, that may be used."'' For websites, using the TLD offers just as much accuracy, and seems to be a more common disambiguator than <X (website)>. So you can't really claim that your page moves are improving things, all they're doing is applying a different, arbitrary style.
:Then—and this is the most important one—check [[WP:TITLECHANGES]]. Specifically, ''"Editing for the sole purpose of changing one controversial title to another is strongly discouraged. '''If an article title has been stable for a long time, and there is no good reason to change it, it should not be changed.''' If it has never been stable, or unstable for a long time, and no consensus can be reached on what the title should be, default to the title used by the first major contributor after the article ceased to be a stub."''
:I hope this clarifies the situation. Regards, ''--[[User:DeLarge|DeLarge]] ([[User talk:DeLarge#top|talk]]) 03:06, 11 March 2012 (UTC)''
 
::I certainly understand if you don't want to support my move on those two articles. I'd like to address some assumptions in the above, however, in the hopes that you'll chose not to actively oppose them. I believe, for example, that calling these changes "from one controversial title to another" is assumptive: I don't believe there's anything controversial in calling a website a website. In regards to stability, if something is not the most correct title, then we shouldn't use it; continuing to have an incorrect or less correct title through inertia certainly isn't the intent behind promoting stability.
Alternatively, you can also choose to replace the fair use image by finding a freely licensed image of its subject or by taking a picture of it yourself.
 
::I also would disagree, strongly with a characterization of the disambiguation "(website)" as being "arbitrary". Going by points made at some of the aforementioned discussions, "Salon.com" would not be a more "complete" name any more than "Nabisco Inc." In both cases, the name of the company is the name of the company, irrespective of their product or medium, and ".com" and "Inc." are both appendages. "(website)" being a synonym of ".com" is by definition equally clear &mdash; with the additional benefit of not changing or appending to the actual name of the company.
If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our fair use criteria. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on <span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target={{PAGENAMEE}}&namespace=6}} this link]</span>. Note that any fair use images which are replaceable by free-licensed alternatives will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#Images.2FMedia|criteria for speedy deletion]]. If you have any questions please ask them at the [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions|Media copyright questions page]]. Thank you. '''''×'''''[[User:Meegs|Meegs]] 14:51, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 
::I'm sure you have an open mind, and even if my points don't sway you to agree, I hope you'll at least concede there is nothing arbitrary or ill-considered here and perhaps allow other editors, if they wish, to be the ones contending the move at those two articles. Does that sound like a fair balance between our views? --[[User:Tenebrae|Tenebrae]] ([[User talk:Tenebrae|talk]]) 04:28, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
==Invite to [[Wikipedia:WikiProject World Rally|WikiProject World Rally]]==
{| class="messagebox standard-talk"
|[[Image:Peugeot 206 WRC.jpg|150px|Stephane Sarrazain, Monte Carlo 2005]]
| Hello, and thank you for your contributions on articles related to [[rallying]]. I'd like to invite you to become a part of '''''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject World Rally|WikiProject World Rally]]''''', a new WikiProject aiming to improve coverage of [[World Rally Championship]] and related articles on Wikipedia.
 
:The word "contoversial" was Wikipedia's, not mine; I was merely quoting a paragraph from the relevant guideline. (The important bit for me was the sentence I bolded.) I believe here it's being used in the WP context, i.e. an uncontroversial change is one that would fix a typographical error. Moving Salon and TMZ were edits another editor disagreed with, ergo they were controversial.
As you can see from the image on the left, we haven't achieved a four-wheel-drive yet. If you would like to help out and participate, please visit the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject World Rally|project page]] for more information. Thanks, [[User:Prolog|Prolog]] 04:57, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
:As for "not the most correct title", I think ''that'' is assumptive. What is actually ''wrong'' about TMZ.com or Salon.com? I appreciate that you personally feel one style is better, but the longtime, widespread existence of both approaches demonstrates that for WP as a whole, both are equally acceptable. That's why I saw your moves as violating the MoS. The irony is that to support your argument, you've used as a parallel the example of companies, which do not have their legal status appended. This is true for [[Nabisco]], which does not require disambiguation, but in fact [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions (companies)|WP:CORP's naming guidelines]] explicitly recommend it where disambiguation is needed. Hence [[Apple Inc.]] and [[Nike, Inc.]]; [[Apple (company)]] and [[Nike (company)]] are both mere redirects.
|}
:Asking for other editors' views would be a great idea, though I believe—given our disagreements, and the fact that your previous good-faith moves were heavily opposed—that a formal move request would be best done after you restore the pages to their original locations. I feel the weight of consensus should be borne by your side, as it were. Regards, ''--[[User:DeLarge|DeLarge]] ([[User talk:DeLarge#top|talk]]) 23:34, 12 March 2012 (UTC)''
 
::I feel a bit strange about your reply, since I don't follow your logic. My moves followed your own rationale for not having ".com" &mdash; that website names don't need them. You cited disambiguation as the reason for Salon.com and TMZ.com &mdash; but ".com" is not the only way of disambiguing, and since "(website)" and ".com" are synonymous, and "(website)" doesn't change the company's name, "(website)" is preferable according to your logic of removing them from Comic Book Resources and the like. It seems now as if you're simply determined to disagree with me no matter what. I'm afraid that seems unnecessarily contentious.
 
::I didn't say anything when you went through several days' worth of my edits, looking for moves you disagreed with, with would seem to fall under the definition of [[WP:HOUND|wikihounding]]. Now, it seems you are continuing to have a very personal, directed issue with me, and intend to follow me around specifically to other articles I edit. I would ask you, please, not to shadow me in an attempt to force your own views on me in an [[WP:OWN]]-like manner. Your indication that you plan to follow me around is troubling. --[[User:Tenebrae|Tenebrae]] ([[User talk:Tenebrae|talk]]) 23:58, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 
:My logic is very simple, and follows exactly the section of the MOS I quoted and bolded. I'll do so once more: "'''If an article title has been stable for a long time, and there is no good reason to change it, it should not be changed.'''" There is more than one way to disambiguate, so I will argue for <Foo.com> in one instance, <Foo (website)> in another, and Foo in a third, if that is the longstanding name.
 
:As for [[WP:STALKING]]... seriously? I don't know whether to be insulted or amused. For the record, '''you''' came to '''my''' talk page and initiated a conversation. I've responded in good faith, and other than that I've made no edits of any description in the last 48 hours. In fact, I've made barely any in the last five days. I have done precisely '''''nothing''''' with either [[TMZ (website)|TMZ]] or [[Salon (website)|Salon]], despite my obvious opposition to their recent moves. Only three days ago you were [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DeLarge&diff=481237000&oldid=480909551 praising my conduct]—what exactly has changed since then? Which of my '''six''' subsequent edits has concerned you so? What single page have I visited that you consider a demonstration of hounding? Please provide some diffs, or quotes, or... ''anything'' more substantial than your rather puerile and paranoid accusation. ''--[[User:DeLarge|DeLarge]] ([[User talk:DeLarge#top|talk]]) 21:52, 13 March 2012 (UTC)''
 
::I'm glad you acknowledged that I've treated you with respect and that I've been a flexible and collegial editor. I'm very disappointed that you choose to call me names ("puerile") and to cast highly personal assertions about my mental health ("paranoid accusation"). I think an objective observer would agree those statements were completely uncivil and uncalled for, but you do not.
 
::For the same reason, I bring up the hounding. I fully understand you don't see it that way. As in your name-calling, you don't think you're doing anything wrong. But that doesn't mean it's OK to name-call or that you're not hounding, which is how I would characterize taking an intense enough interest in another editor to not only look up several past edits in order to revert/challenge them, but then to suggest plans to follow that editor to two more.
 
::I came to your talk page only after you reverted/challenge a number of my edits. It was absolutely proper of me to come discuss such edits with a fellow editor, so I'm not sure why you're seeming to suggest that this was not the right to do.
 
::"[T]here is no good reason to change it"? That is an extremely ill-faith statement. You may not agree with me, but that in no way makes my edit non-constructive and done arbitrarily for "no good reason." I think retaining the integrity of a company name &mdash; following your example &mdash; is a very good reason.
 
::You don't seem to want to let me or my edits be, or to let the matter drop and let other editors revert/challenge if they wish. I've behaved in good faith; I'd like to think you have as well, despite your saying some unfortunate things. All I can do is hope I've given a calm and reasonable explanation of why I believe that your intimation that you would continue to follow me to Salon and TMZ seems hounding. To put it another way, sometimes it's good to put ourselves in other people's shoes. --[[User:Tenebrae|Tenebrae]] ([[User talk:Tenebrae|talk]]) 22:25, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 
:I'm not sure I ever did acknowledge your good conduct. You did with mine, but all I did was highlight your behaviour when it suddenly became lousy. After a week, you've still failed to provide a single diff which supports your nonsensical claim of me hounding you. If you make mistakes and they need to be undone or discussed, that's nothing to do with you personally. You seem to think it's acceptable to make accusations without any evidence or justification, but it's somehow unacceptable for someone to call you out on it. And now, to cap it all, you've stated that a ''direct quotation from the MOS'' is an "ill-faith statement"? You need to take that up at [[Wikipedia talk:Article titles]].
:If you think you're being hounded, put up or shut up: report me at [[WP:ANI]]. Otherwise, you're no longer welcome on this talk page until you're willing to withdraw, redact, or apologise for your accusation. I consider this discussion over until then, and will see you at [[WP:RM]]. ''--[[User:DeLarge|DeLarge]] ([[User talk:DeLarge#top|talk]]) 11:42, 17 March 2012 (UTC)''
 
<nowiki>~~~~~~~~~~</nowiki>
 
POSTSCRIPT: User was banned indefinitely in March 2021. I wonder how much insidious damage he did in the intervening years...?
 
==Notice of Wikiquette Assistance discussion==
Hello, DeLarge. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at [[Wikipedia:Wikiquette assistance#Hounding and name-calling by an editor]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. {{#if:|The thread is [[{{{Wikipedia:Wikiquette assistance}}}#|{{{thread}}}]]. }}{{#if:|The discussion is about the topic [[:{{{1}}}]].}}<!--Template:WQA-notice--> Thank you. --[[User:Tenebrae|Tenebrae]] ([[User talk:Tenebrae|talk]]) 16:21, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
* [[Wikipedia:Wikiquette assistance/archive117#Hounding and name-calling by an editor|Conversation archived]].
 
 
== Mouawad ==
I hate to give any encouragement to [[user talk:Mouawad|blatant spammers]] but I see that you have [[Robert Mouawad]] on your todo list. So you may care to look at <span class="plainlinks">[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Mouawad/sandbox&action=history user:Mouawad/sandbox]</span> as a possible source of info for a bio of Robert or even an article on the company. &mdash; [[User:RHaworth|RHaworth]] ([[User talk:RHaworth|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/RHaworth|contribs]]) 21:33, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
:Hagiographic and completely unsourced, but it might be a starting point. Cheers for that, and well done for spotting my plans. ''--[[User:DeLarge|DeLarge]] ([[User talk:DeLarge#top|talk]]) 00:11, 25 March 2012 (UTC)''
 
==Subaru Legacy==
I wonder if you are interested in a second [[Talk:Subaru_Outback#Let.27s_do_this_again.2C_shall_we.3F|'''discussion''']] regarding whether the [[Subaru Outback]] deserves a standalone article or if it ought to be merged into the relevant generational articles of [[Subaru Legacy]] (and [[Subaru Impreza|Impreza]])? Thank you.---[[User:North wiki|North wiki]] ([[User talk:North wiki|talk]]) 18:23, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
== Possibly unfree File:250px-DSC044032.jpg ==
A file that you uploaded or altered, [[:File:250px-DSC044032.jpg]], has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Possibly unfree files]] because its copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the file's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the [[:File:250px-DSC044032.jpg|file description page]]. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at [[Wikipedia:Possibly unfree files/2012 October 18#File:250px-DSC044032.jpg|the discussion]] if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. <!-- Template:Fdw-puf --> [[User:Stefan2|Stefan2]] ([[User talk:Stefan2|talk]]) 15:37, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
== Orphaned non-free media (File:Mitsubishi rpm7000.jpg) ==
[[File:Ambox warning blue.svg|25px|link=]] Thanks for uploading '''[[:File:Mitsubishi rpm7000.jpg]]'''. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a [[WP:FU|claim of fair use]]. However, it is currently [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Orphanage|orphaned]], meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. [[WP:BOLD|You may add it back]] if you think that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see [[Wikipedia:Non-free content#Policy|our policy for non-free media]]).
 
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "[[Special:Contributions/DeLarge|my contributions]]" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any '''articles''' will be deleted after seven days, as described on [[wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#Files|criteria for speedy deletion]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Orphaned --> [[User:Hazard-Bot|Hazard-Bot]] ([[User talk:Hazard-Bot|talk]]) 04:07, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
 
==Disambiguation link fixing one-day contest==
 
I have decided to put on a mini-contest within the [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links/November 2013|November 2013 monthly disambiguation contest]], on Saturday, November 23 (UTC). I will personally give a $20 Amazon.com gift card to the disambiguator who fixes the most links on that server-day ([https://tools.wmflabs.org/dplbot/ch/dab_challenge.php see the project page for details on scoring points]). Since we are not geared up to do an automated count for that day, at 00:00, 23 November 2013 (UTC) (which is 7:00 PM on November 22, EST), I'll take a screenshot of the project page leaderboard. I will presume that anyone who is not already listed on the leaderboard has precisely <i>nine</i> edits. At 01:00, 24 November 2013 (UTC) (8:00 PM on November 23, EST), I'll take a screenshot of the leaderboard at that time (the extra hour is to give the board time to update), and I will determine from that who our winner is. I <i>will</i> credit links fixed by turning a [[WP:DABCONCEPT]] page into an article, but you'll have to let me know me that you did so. Here's to a fun contest. Note that according to the [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links/The Daily Disambig|Daily Disambig]], we currently have under 256,000 disambiguation links to be fixed. If everyone in the disambiguation link fixers category were to fix 500 links, we would have them all done - so aim high! Cheers! [[User:BD2412|<span style="background:gold;">'''''bd2412'''''</span>]] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 02:20, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
 
==[[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|Speedy deletion]] nomination of [[:File:Julia phillips filmproducer.jpg]]==
[[Image:Ambox warning pn.svg|48px|left|alt=|link=]]
 
A tag has been placed on [[:File:Julia phillips filmproducer.jpg]] requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under [[WP:CSD#F7|section F7 of the criteria for speedy deletion]], because it is a [[Wikipedia:Non-free content|non-free file]] with a clearly invalid licensing tag; or it otherwise fails some part of the [[Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria|non-free content criteria]]. If you can find a valid tag that expresses why the file can be used under the [[Wikipedia:Non-free content|fair use guidelines]], please replace the current tag with that tag. If no such tag exists, please add the {{tl|Non-free fair use}} tag, ''along with'' a brief explanation of why this constitutes fair use of the file. If the file has been deleted, you can re-upload it, but please ensure you place the correct tag on it.
 
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may '''contest the nomination''' by [[:File:Julia phillips filmproducer.jpg|visiting the page]] and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with [[Wikipedia:List of policies|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]]. <!-- Template:Db-badfairuse-notice --> [[User:Stefan2|Stefan2]] ([[User talk:Stefan2|talk]]) 18:42, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
 
==RM notification==
Since you have participated in at least one Requested Move or Move Review discussion, either as participant or closer, regarding the title of the article currently at [[Sarah Jane Brown]], you are being notified that there is another discussion about that going on now, at [[Talk:Sarah Jane Brown#Requested move #10]]. We hope we can finally achieve consensus among all participating about which title best meets policy and guidelines, and is not too objectionable. --[[User:Born2cycle|В²C]] [[User_talk:Born2cycle#top|☎]] 17:03, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
==Orphaned non-free image File:Mitsubishi pistachio.gif==
<span style="font-size:32px; line-height:1em">'''[[Image:Ambox warning blue.svg|35px|left|⚠|link=]]'''</span> Thanks for uploading '''[[:File:Mitsubishi pistachio.gif]]'''. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a [[WP:FU|claim of fair use]]. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see [[Wikipedia:Non-free content#Policy|our policy for non-free media]]).
 
Note that any non-free images not used in any '''articles''' will be deleted after seven days, as described in the [[wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#F5|criteria for speedy deletion]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Di-orphaned fair use-notice --> --[[User:B-bot|B-bot]] ([[User talk:B-bot|talk]]) 17:34, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
 
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[[File:Ambox warning blue.svg|35px|text-top|left|⚠|link=]] Thanks for uploading '''[[:File:Golf Australia logo.jpg]]'''. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a [[WP:FU|claim of fair use]]. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see [[Wikipedia:Non-free content#Policy|our policy for non-free media]]).
 
Note that any non-free images not used in any '''articles''' will be deleted after seven days, as described in [[wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#F5|section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Di-orphaned fair use-notice --> --[[User:B-bot|B-bot]] ([[User talk:B-bot|talk]]) 17:41, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
 
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==[[World Rally Championship 2006 results]]==
Hi, was there a reason why you reverted the changes to this page? I thought the improvements were quite useful. This page looks bad when the tables are stretched to full page width, ''especially'' on widescreen displays but also on normal 4:3 displays greater than XGA resolution. Why did you revert those changes with no explanation in the edit summary? [[User:Andrwsc|Andrwsc]] 19:48, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
 
<table class="messagebox " style="border: 1px solid #AAA; background: ivory; padding: 0.5em; width: 100%;">
:Because there are 34 pages of resultsfrom 1973, all of them following the same rough stylistic template, and the anonymous user (who had made no other contributions) changed two without any discussion or consensus and left the rest as they were; I reverted back to the ''consistent'' style followed on the rest of [[:Template:World Rally Championship results]]. And I didn't explain it because I used [[Wikipedia:Tools/Navigation_popups|popups]], which fills in the edit summary automatically.
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:And for the record, as I recently mentioned on another talk page, 60% of internet users have a screen size of 1024x768, and there's as many using less than that as using more (see [http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp here] and [http://www.onestat.com/html/aboutus_pressbox31.html here] for confirmation). Going on about what looks good at 16:9 or greater than XGA is only discussing what ''one in five'' Wikipedians can see.
 
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:So, I'm reverting again ''to restore a consistent style''. If you want to revert, make sure you do all 34 pages instead of just one or two. But I'd recommend you discuss any changes at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject World Rally]]. Among the members are the two editors who came up with the layout in the first place (I wasn't one of them, I only copied what was there). I'm quite happy to follow the will of the majority, but let's (a) follow due process before making blanket changes and (b) be consistent throughout. ''--[[User:DeLarge|DeLarge]] 20:32, 28 November 2006 (UTC)''
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==DYK for Hans Redl==
::Ok, fair enough. I am a strong advocate of consistency myself. When I get some time, I shall update all 34 pages. I viewed the pages again on a 1024x768 display, and they look bad there too. There is far too much unnecessary whitespace to the right of the manufacturer and driver names, even at XGA resolution. My goal is to format pages so that they look good for '''all''' Wikipedia readers, not just 4 out of 5.
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
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|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions/2022/October#22 October 2022|22 October 2022]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Hans Redl]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that despite losing his left arm in World War&nbsp;II, Austrian tennis player '''[[Hans Redl]]''' reached the fourth round at Wimbledon in 1947?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Hans Redl]]. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//pageviews.toolforge.org/?start=2022-10-12&end=2022-11-01&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Hans_Redl Hans Redl])</small>, and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]]. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK --> [[User:Casliber|Cas Liber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 00:02, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 
== ArbCom 2022 Elections voter message ==
::More importantly, the table headings don't make sense. The "Events" column heading appears above the lists of manufacturers and drivers, which is clearly wrong. That label should appear above the list of event flag icons. [[User:Andrwsc|Andrwsc]] 21:38, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
 
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== Thanks for fixing the vandalism ==
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The [[WP:ARBCOM|Arbitration Committee]] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration|Wikipedia arbitration process]]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose [[WP:BAN|site bans]], [[WP:TBAN|topic bans]], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy|arbitration policy]] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
Thanks for fixing the vandalism on my userpage. Now I can finally activate the 'userpage has been vandalized x times' userbox. [[User:Caper13|Caper13]] 01:55, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
 
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== A word about the EPA size classification system ==
 
</div>
Classification of vehicle sizes by interior volume: it sounds great, but it doesn't work. I can prove this by using this example: say there's a hundred-foot car with the interior volume of a [[Honda Accord]]. Based on the EPA size classification system, it would be classified as a midsize car, which is what it classifies the Accord as. But since the car is 100 feet long, doesn't that seem like a bit of a stretch?[[User:Hondasaregood|Hondasaregood]] 15:10, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
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== Good article reassessment for [[Mitsubishi i]] ==
:I never once offered any approval or endorsement of the EPA's methodology, so getting me to agree or disagree is irrelevant. The bottom line is that the organisation with the responsibility for classifying cars by size in the United States define the RL as mid-sized. Calling it full-sized is contradicted by a [[reliable source]].
[[Mitsubishi i]] has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the [[Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Mitsubishi i/1|reassessment page]]. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. [[User:Grandmaster Huon|Grandmaster Huon]] ([[User talk:Grandmaster Huon|talk]]) 16:20, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 
== Good article reassessment for [[Mitsubishi i]] ==
:You are of course welcome to lobby the EPA directly if you think their system needs revising. Their contact details are available on [http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/contacts.shtml their website], and if you choose to follow this route then I wish you all the best. If or when they revise the RL's classification I'd be delighted to restore your edit, but not before then. ''--[[User:DeLarge|DeLarge]] 15:59, 4 December 2006 (UTC)''
[[Mitsubishi i]] has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the [[Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Mitsubishi i/2|reassessment page]]. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. [[User:750h+|750h+]] ([[User talk:750h+|talk]]) 13:04, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
 
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== "Rearcross" and"Rearcross Hall" entries: Please Delete ==
 
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I have contributed the above named articles, which you are, apparently, unhappy with. On reflection, I realise these contributions are personal observations, and are not suitable for Wikipedia. Therefore, I would request you to delete them.
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Thanks,
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MountainRambler69 <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Mountainrambler69|Mountainrambler69]] ([[User talk:Mountainrambler69|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mountainrambler69|contribs]]) 23:54, 7 December 2006 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
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==[[Maserati MC12]]==
Thanks a lot for [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Automobiles#Maserati MC12|making suggestions]] I'm currently working on them. :) [[User:James086|James086]]<sup>[[User talk:James086|<font color="orange">Talk</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/James086|<font color="green">Contribs</font>]]</sup> 05:10, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
 
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== Recreation of deleted {db-attack} material and other edits ==
 
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Hi, and thanks for your comments. [[User:Yeahsoo]] seems to be an [[Fenqing|angry young Chinese]] POV pusher. From his edits so far I doubt that he can adapt to the NPOV at Wikipedia, since he is both very biased in his editing, and - judging from his English abilities - unable to understand the fine points of [[WP:NPOV]] or other rules at Wikipedia. Maybe it would be best to find a Chinese speaking editor/admin to talk to him. But so far I don't even know if he speaks Cantonese or Mandarin-- [[User:Chris 73|Chris 73]] | [[User talk:Chris 73|Talk]] 23:42, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
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