Module talk:Find sources: Difference between revisions

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{{Hatnote|This talk page is intended for discussion of template content and links. For discussions relating to technical aspects of the Find sources template, see '''[[Template talk:Find sources]]'''}}

{{central|text=[[Special:PrefixIndex/Module talk:Find sources/|all talk subpages of this page]] redirect here.}}

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{{central|text=[[Special:PrefixIndex/Module talk:Find sources/|all talk subpages of this page]], as well as [[Template talk:Find sources mainspace]] , [[Template talk:Find general sources]], and [[Template talk:Find biographical sources]] redirect here.}}

{{oldtfdfull|date= 2017 May 14 |result=no consensus |disc=Template:Find sources}}

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== Request for proper capitalization ==

{{User:MiszaBot/config

| algo = old(180d)

{{edit template protected|answered=yes}}

| archive = Module talk:Find sources/Archive %(counter)d

For proper capitalization, could someone please edit [[Module:Find sources/templates/Find sources]] to change "highbeam" to "HighBeam" and "wikipedia" to "Wikipedia"? Thanks! [[User:GoingBatty|GoingBatty]] ([[User talk:GoingBatty|talk]]) 18:47, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

| counter = 1

:{{done}} — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] ^{[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#00FF00;">Talk</span>]]} 19:08, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

| maxarchivesize = 150K

| archiveheader = {{Talk archive navigation}}

== Google ==

| minthreadstoarchive = 2

Is there any reason that [[Module:Find sources/links/google]] sets the results per page to 50 instead of the user’s preference {{small|(or if it’s by design, why not 100)}}? Also, can we document the {{code|as_eq}} parameter with a link to say, [https://www.google.com/support/enterprise/static/gsa/docs/admin/72/gsa_doc_set/xml_reference/request_format.html#1076745 this documentation]? —<span style="text-shadow:0 0 .15em #900;color:#900">[[User:LLarson|LLarson]]</span> <small>([[User talk:LLarson|said]] &amp; [[Special:Contributions/LLarson|done]])</small> 16:33, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

| minthreadsleft = 4

:{{Done}} Having waited a sufficient amount of time with no objections, I [[Special:Diff/883390443|removed the 50-results-per-page parameter]] from the Google search. —<span style="text-shadow:0 0 .15em #900;color:#900">[[User:LLarson|LLarson]]</span> <small>([[User talk:LLarson|said]] &amp; [[Special:Contributions/LLarson|done]])</small> 03:49, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

}}

== Number of transclusions of Template:Find general sources ==

== Please use HTTPS URL for JSTOR link ==

{{edit template protected|Module:Find sources/links/jstor|ans=yes}}

The purpose of this edit is to provide increased privacy and security for users by having the [[:Module:Find sources/links/jstor|Module:Find sources/links/jstor]] template generate an HTTPS link to JSTOR instead of the current HTTP link. The JSTOR search URL appears to [https://www.jstor.org/action/doBasicSearch?Query=%22Albert+Einstein%22&acc=on&wc=on support HTTPS]. In [[:Module:Find sources/links/jstor|Module:Find sources/links/jstor]], please change <code><nowiki>http://www.jstor.org/</nowiki></code> to <code><nowiki>https://www.jstor.org/</nowiki></code> instead. --[[User:Elegie|Elegie]] ([[User talk:Elegie|talk]]) 05:53, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

:{{Re|Elegie}} {{Done}} -- [[User:John of Reading|John of Reading]] ([[User talk:John of Reading|talk]]) 06:11, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

== Update Google Images to use new-style URL and forced HTTPS ==

{{edit template-protected|Module:Find sources/links/google free images|answered=yes}}

I switched the Google Image search format string to a newer format at [[Module:Find sources/links/google free images/sandbox]], and was hoping for it to be applied to [[Module:Find sources/links/google free images]].

The current template uses the old-style Google image search URL format, with <code>google.com/image?tbm=isch</code> instead of <code>google.com/search?tbm=isch</code>. Currently the old format redirects to the new format, but I think it would be better to just use the new format to avoid any broken links in the future. Also, the [[Wikipedia:External_links#Specifying_protocols|protocol-relative URL scheme is now obsolete]] so I changed it to use <code>https://</code> instead. If this is applied and works out I might make some similar changes to the other Google URLs. Thanks, [[User:Habst|Habst]] ([[User talk:Habst|talk]]) 15:04, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

:[[File:Yes check.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Done'''<!-- Template:ETp --> —&thinsp;[[User:JJMC89|JJMC89]]&thinsp;<small>([[User talk:JJMC89|T]]'''·'''[[Special:Contributions/JJMC89|C]])</small> 17:25, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

::{{ping|Habst}} Thank you for the edit request! Fixes like these are very welcome. (And of course thank you to [[User:JJMC89|JJMC89]] for carrying it out. :) — '''''[[User:Mr. Stradivarius|<span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr.&nbsp;Stradivarius</span>]]''''' ^{[[User talk:Mr. Stradivarius|♪&nbsp;talk&nbsp;♪]]} 12:30, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

== Some google searches using this module have "-wikipedia" at the end ==

I've noticed an issue occurring with [[Template:Find sources mainspace]] that I believe originates with this module..<br>

An example of what is occurring:<br>

On [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Edmonton_%26_Area_Land_Trust&diff=876878265&oldid=876814312 this diff] you can see [[Template:Article for deletion/dated]] at the top. The first two ''Find sources'' links search with "-wikipedia" included in the search term, which seems to negatively affect the results coming back.<br>

I'm hoping that someone may know what is wrong so that this can be corrected.

== Too complicated ==

This module seems to me like it is needlessly complicated. Why is it a good idea to store the configuration for each template in its own module subpage instead of in the wikitext of the template? That appears to make it harder to edit for no apparent reason. [[User:Pppery|&#123;&#123;3x&#124;p&#125;&#125;ery]] ([[User talk:Pppery|talk]]) 02:32, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

:I am guessing because [[Module:Find sources/autodoc|auto-documentation template]] also uses it? —&nbsp;<small>&nbsp;[[user:Hellknowz|<span style="color: #B00;">HELL</span>KNOWZ]]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;▎[[User talk:Hellknowz|TALK]]</small> 11:33, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

:: It would still be possible to implement autodoc even without /templates cfg pages. [[User:Pppery|&#123;&#123;3x&#124;p&#125;&#125;ery]] ([[User talk:Pppery|talk]]) 19:59, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

:: As I have just done. I also think that the /autodoc template config pages should also be in Wikitext and associated with the template, but it's not clear exactly where. [[User:Pppery|&#123;&#123;3x&#124;p&#125;&#125;ery]] ([[User talk:Pppery|talk]]) 21:09, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

See [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2019 February 15#Module:Find sources/templates/find sources]]. [[User:Pppery|&#123;&#123;3x&#124;p&#125;&#125;ery]] ([[User talk:Pppery|talk]]) 21:54, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

[[Template:Find general sources]] has "869860 transclusion(s) found" as of 06:36, 30 November 2023 (UTC), as I just checked https://templatecount.toolforge.org/index.php?lang=en&namespace=10&name=Find_general_sources#bottom .

== Nomination for deletion of Module:Find sources/templates/Find sources ==

{{moved from|Template talk:Find sources|[[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 01:05, 31 July 2020 (UTC)}}

[[File:Ambox warning blue.svg|30px|link=]][[Module:Find sources/templates/Find sources]] has been [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion|nominated for deletion]]. You are invited to comment on the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2019 February 15#Module:Find sources/templates/Find sources|the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page]].<!--Template:Tfdnotice--> [[User:Pppery|&#123;&#123;3x&#124;p&#125;&#125;ery]] ([[User talk:Pppery|talk]]) 22:00, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

(Appreciate it if another user can reply below and confirm this.)

== Add [[Library Genesis]]? ==

{{moved from|Template talk:Find sources|[[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 01:05, 31 July 2020 (UTC)}}

I increasingly find [[Library Genesis]] to be a very helpful search engine for academic papers, more so than Google Books. In particular, it excells at finding book reviews. Ex. compare LG (<small>blacklisted link removed -- [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 01:05, 31 July 2020 (UTC)</small>) return hits and [https://scholar.google.co.kr/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=Groundswell.+Winning+in+a+World+Transformed+by+Social+Technologies&btnG= Google Scholar]. I first noticed it few weeks ago while looking for reviews for [[The Expanding Circle: Ethics and Sociobiology|this book]] I wrote an entry on. If anyone is concerned about legality, note that LG has been mentioned at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request]] (with a caution note) for quite a while now, with no objections/controversy. We could add a link to such note to the template through a tiny hperlink to address any related concerns. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]&#124;[[User talk:Piotrus|<span style="color:#7CFC00;background:#006400;"> reply here</span>]]</sub> 04:30, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

This is written here because [[Template talk:Find general sources]] redirects here. [[User:RZuo|RZuo]] ([[User talk:RZuo|talk]]) 06:36, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

== Have ==

{{moved from|Template talk:Find sources|[[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 01:05, 31 July 2020 (UTC)}}

been planning on adding Sage and Cambridge Core. Any objections? [[User:Winged Blades of Godric|<span style="color: red">&#x222F;</span><span style="font-family:Verdana"><b style="color:#070">WBG</b></span>]][[User talk:Winged Blades of Godric|^{<span style="color:#00F">converse</span>}]] 06:52, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

:Fine with me. No objections, just like I presume no objections to my proposal above. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]&#124;[[User talk:Piotrus|<span style="color:#7CFC00;background:#006400;"> reply here</span>]]</sub> 05:34, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

:Quoting from what appears right now on the template page, this is "'''roughly 1% of all pages'''" on English Wikipedia. [[User:RZuo|RZuo]] ([[User talk:RZuo|talk]]) 06:42, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

== Inclusion of ''NYT'' ==

::Also, quoting from [[Module_talk:Find_sources/Archive_1#Wikipedia_Library_text]], "'''this is an 800k-transclusion template'''" in September 2021. [[User:RZuo|RZuo]] ([[User talk:RZuo|talk]]) 06:58, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

{{moved from|Template talk:Find sources|[[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 01:05, 31 July 2020 (UTC)}}

I don't particularly have an issue with it, but I do want to just bring up for discussion the fact that the ''[[NYT]]'' is the only newspaper included with this template. While it is probably true that the ''NYT'' has the best claim to being the newspaper of record for the English speaking world, I'm saying that as an American, and I can imagine those in other English speaking countries objecting that the ''NYT'' is not the best source for them, and that perhaps another paper should be included, or that no specific paper should be included, so that Google News (a more dynamic way to find a quality source, but also not as curated) can be used instead. I guess my point is mainly that this template in some way implies that we're endorsing the ''NYT'' over every other newspaper, and while in a practical sense that's probably the reasonable thing to do for the situations this template is used for, we should at least have some discussion to establish a consensus. (Also, as a minor cosmetic note, ''NYT'' ought to be italicized, and I'd appreciate someone with template editing privileges making that fix.) - [[User:Sdkb|Sdkb]] ([[User talk:Sdkb|talk]]) 05:27, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

== Edit request 12 January 2024 ==

== Excluding non-Wikipedia source ==

{{moved from|Template talk:Find sources|[[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 01:05, 31 July 2020 (UTC)}}

I noticed the template's Google news search excludes [https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/sungwon-cho-used-to-make-goofy-voices-for-fun-now-hes-got-millions-of-fans-fandom-files-ep this article], though the word 'wikipedia' does not seem to appear anywhere in it.

{{edit template-protected|Module:Find sources/templates/Find general sources|answered=yes}}

See: {{find sources|SungWon Cho used to make goofy voices}}

A discussion at [[Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)]] resulted in consensus supporting the proposal to "remove all individual news outlets" from [[Module:Find sources/templates/Find general sources]] (closure: [[Special:Diff/1195065906]]). This means removal of the following lines:

<pre>

{

code = 'new york times',

display = "''NYT''",

tooltip = 'The New York Times',

},

{

code = 'ap',

display = 'AP',

tooltip = 'Associated Press',

},

</pre> [[User:Adumbrativus|Adumbrativus]] ([[User talk:Adumbrativus|talk]]) 05:26, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

:{{done}}<!-- Template:ETp --> by Sdkb in [[Special:Diff/1195169672]] [[User:SWinxy|SWinxy]] ([[User talk:SWinxy|talk]]) 22:16, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

== Proposed removal on 'Find video game sources' template: ==

[[User:Oornery|Oornery]] ([[User talk:Oornery|talk]])

:{{ping|Oornery}} My best guess as to why this happens is that when Google crawled that page, it contained the text "Wikipedia", but it doesn't contain it any more. (Maybe it appeared in the "latest articles" feed or something like that.) However, if you notice a pattern of this occurring, it might be a good idea to report it to Google, as it might be a problem with their algorithm. — '''''[[User:Mr. Stradivarius|<span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr.&nbsp;Stradivarius</span>]]''''' ^{[[User talk:Mr. Stradivarius|♪&nbsp;talk&nbsp;♪]]} 01:29, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Remove both [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=%22Find+video+game+sources%22&prefix=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject+Video+games%2FReference+library&fulltext=Search+reference+library&fulltext=Search VG/RL] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=%22Find+video+game+sources%22+prefix%3AWikipedia+talk%3AWikiProject+Video+games&title=Special:Search&profile=default&fulltext=1 WPVG/Talk] (both don't seem to link anywhere) on [[Template:Find video game sources]] (these are the last two links) [[User:Superb Owl|Superb Owl]] ([[User talk:Superb Owl|talk]]) 18:16, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

== Internet Archive? ==

: Unclear what you change you are requesting. Please clarify. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 09:27, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

{{moved from|Template talk:Find sources|[[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 01:05, 31 July 2020 (UTC)}}

I use [[Internet Archive]] all the time to look for sources, especially on old topics. Would it make sense to include a full-text search of [https://archive.org/ archive.org] on this template? [[User:AleatoryPonderings|AleatoryPonderings]] ([[User talk:AleatoryPonderings|talk]]) 20:57, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

:Hmm, interesting thought. I do get a lot of sources value out of the Internet Archive, but I also see it as sort of a more advanced tool less essential than some of the others listed. <span style="color:#AAA"><small>&#123;{u&#124;</small><span style="border-radius:9em;padding:0 5px;background:#088">[[User:Sdkb|<span style="color:#FFF">'''Sdkb'''</span>]]</span><small>}&#125;</small></span> ^{[[User talk:Sdkb|'''talk''']]} 01:44, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

::Fair enough—certainly a bit clunkier to use, too. Just a thought. [[User:AleatoryPonderings|AleatoryPonderings]] ([[User talk:AleatoryPonderings|talk]]) 02:53, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

== Trim "list of" from argument? ==

== Template-protected edit request on 24 July 2020 ==

{{moved from|Template talk:Find sources|[[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 01:05, 31 July 2020 (UTC)}}

{{edit template-protected|Template:Find sources|answered=yes}}

Please italicize {{tq|NYT}} per [[MOS:ITALICS]], since it's an abbreviation of the name of a newspaper. <span style="color:#AAA"><small>&#123;{u&#124;</small><span style="border-radius:9em;padding:0 5px;background:#088">[[User:Sdkb|<span style="color:#FFF">'''Sdkb'''</span>]]</span><small>}&#125;</small></span> ^{[[User talk:Sdkb|'''talk''']]} 01:47, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

:Sorry, I don't see the guidance you are referring to. Can you please quote the relevant MOS guidance? Thanks. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 03:17, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

::{{u|Jonesey95}}, sure:

{{tqb|Italics should be used for the following types of names and titles, or abbreviations thereof:

*'''Major works of art and artifice''', such as albums, books, video games, films, musicals, operas, symphonies, paintings, sculptures, newspapers,...}}

::<span style="color:#AAA"><small>&#123;{u&#124;</small><span style="border-radius:9em;padding:0 5px;background:#088">[[User:Sdkb|<span style="color:#FFF">'''Sdkb'''</span>]]</span><small>}&#125;</small></span> ^{[[User talk:Sdkb|'''talk''']]} 05:15, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

:{{to|Sdkb|Jonesey95}} {{done|done}}, and also in {{tl|Find video game sources}}. '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|<span style="font-size:92%;color:darkblue;font-family:Segoe Script">P.I.&nbsp;Ellsworth</span>]]'''''&nbsp;&nbsp;[[Editor|<span style="color:black">ed.</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|^{put'r&nbsp;there}]]&nbsp;<small>08:20, 24 July 2020 (UTC)</small>

Can the logic here convert "List of foo" as a parameter to become a search for "foo"? e.g. "List of fictional rutabagas" becomes "fictional rutabagas" for search purposes? This would help correctly identify relevant sources in AfDs, and those who actually meant to search for "List of foo" can add the prefix back if desired. My experience is that "list of foo" consistently fails to produce any relevant sources, while "foo" will produce more sources, with some arguably relevant to the discussion. [[User:Jclemens|Jclemens]] ([[User talk:Jclemens|talk]]) 05:59, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

== Template-protected edit request on 30 July 2020 ==

== Chatbots as valid sources or identifiers of them ==

{{edit template-protected|Module:Find sources|Template:Afd2|answered=yes}}

Please copy [[Module:Find sources/sandbox]] to [[Module:Find sources]]. This will allow the template to generate search queries for arbitrary page titles (specified by {{para|title}}) with parenthetical disambiguators separated from the main part of the title (this is already supported for the current page title).

{{u|Awesome Aasim}}, Can you please elaborate on your intentions with [[Special:Diff/1251335553|this sandbox edit]] ? I believe that it would be a perversion of this module and the associated template to admit any notion of AI bots into the module configuration either as 1) a reliable source, or as 2) a good way to find reliable sources (their hallucinations are legion). Hence, I would be against porting your changes to the module or to the template without consensus achieved at an Rfc on this page advertised at the main venues where AI bots are being discussed, as well as at [[WP:VPR]]. Thanks, [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 04:51, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Please also copy [[Template:Afd2/sandbox]] to [[Template:Afd2]], which will make use of this new parameter.

:I kind of agree as well. However, Google and Bing also index unreliable sources. I was initially going to put in a query "find reliable sources for $1" but then decided against it for some reason. [[User:Awesome Aasim|Awesome]] [[User_talk:Awesome Aasim|Aasim]] 14:00, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

I posted a section on [[Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion#Find sources and parenthetical disambiguiators]] proposing these changes. There has been no response in the past week. The [[Template:Find sources/testcases|testcases]] are unaffected. The change is demonstrated in [[User:Danski454/sandbox3|one of my sandboxes]]. [[User:Danski454|Danski454]] ([[User talk:Danski454|talk]]) 20:16, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

:: That is, of course, true. However, I have never seen Google or Bing invent a very convincing-looking source out of whole <s>cloth</s> bits, creating authors who do not exist, or very complex and scholarly-looking titles that look real but do not exist (but are quite similar to pieces of other titles that do exist), and so on. If the task assigned were to add sources to an article that do not exist but would rarely get challenged, AI bots are definitely the way to go. It's quite possible vandals or lazy or clueless editors are doing this already, and it is a problem that will have to be addressed at some point. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 15:34, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

: {{done}} Please document the new parameter. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 01:02, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

:::When a chatbot is powered by a search engine, it is less likely to make stuff up; but that doesn't mean it doesn't pull from unreliable sources. I have tried Copilot before (not necessarily for Wikipedia tasks, but for personal tasks like clarifying math concepts) and it has not really failed me. On the other hand, ChatGPT has occasionally made stuff up, especially when it does not query from the web. [[User:Awesome Aasim|Awesome]] [[User_talk:Awesome Aasim|Aasim]] 15:45, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

:::: Imho, this page is not the place for Wikipedia editors to debate whether chatbots are more or less likely to hallucinate under this or that circumstance, and, pardon me, but anecdotal evidence about failure to fail in casual use by non-experts is close to worthless. Please use the AI discussion venues for that. Here we should debate whether a find sources module should use the results of AI, however triggered, and imho the answer to that is a slam-dunk 'no'. I will shut up now, and hopefully others will chime in. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 16:26, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

::::: Agreed entirely with Mathglot here. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 16:53, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

:Google's top-level "AI overview" results are rarely totally accurate, but they do give the source links, which in aggregate ends up being significantly ''more reliable'' for us than their raw top search results, which, often being shit like quora or low-quality zines, do not provide sources at all.

:I don't know if linking to another engine prompting something like ChatGPT would get better AI-enhanced results than Google or Bing in that respect, since they are putting a good deal of effort into making it give back real online-accessible sources. That seems to align with our goal here.

:Of course the other question is whether it's more enticing for the novice editor to have a shiny link saying "ChatGPT" or whatever latest AI tool is out there, instead of just clicking "Google", even if the result is the same. Also, calling exclusively the Google AI overview results does not appear possible right now as it's still considered an experimental feature, and it doesn't appear to be available in private browsing either. But that's my thought going forward. [[User:SamuelRiv|SamuelRiv]] ([[User talk:SamuelRiv|talk]]) 17:52, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

<small>'''Listed at:''' [[Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)]]. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 16:35, 16 October 2024 (UTC)</small>

:I think that even if chatbots were 100% accurate in their output, we would still want to avoid using them for use-cases like this because of how heavily these technologies rely on Wikipedia itself as an information source. We need to stay upstream of LLMs to avoid circular referencing. _signed,[[User:Rosguill|'''''Rosguill''''']] ^{[[User talk:Rosguill|''talk'']]} 16:47, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

::I wonder if with the right prompt engineering we can get these chatbots to actually spit out reliable sources. We can maybe base our entire prompt based on something like [[WP:RSPS]]. Although it probably would overfill the query parameter. [[User:Awesome Aasim|Awesome]] [[User_talk:Awesome Aasim|Aasim]] 17:25, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

::: Are you proposing to engineer a solution that operates without human intervention? Because if you are successful, you should quit your day job and launch the next AI start-up, or become CTO of one of the existing ones. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 17:30, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

::::No, a person will still need to click on and then review what is provided, and provide follow up queries. The queries I pass into the ?q=... parameter may be a good start, but I don't think they are a good end. But us Wikipedians should know this; just as the first page of Google/Bing search results can at times be littered with stuff like [[WP:DAILYFAIL]] and [[WP:NEWSMAX]], depending on the query and depending on previous searches.

::::I have largely toyed with ChatGPT and found it is not always good. Web-based LLMs like Copilot and Gemini are a bit better, although I remember they had a bumpy start, sometimes pulling nonsense from places like Reddit and Facebook.

::::I do not agree that we should just copy and paste the exact output of an LLM. I only think AI is good to assist humans, but practically can never replace humans. [[User:Awesome Aasim|Awesome]] [[User_talk:Awesome Aasim|Aasim]] 17:38, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

:I think that including AI-oriented links is likely to cause more problems than it solves. [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 19:41, 17 October 2024 (UTC)