Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 January 10: Difference between revisions

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=== January 10 ===

<!-- Please do not add new nominations here.

==== Category:Rangoon ====

Use the current day's NEW NOMINATIONS section

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:''The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''

Thank you for your cooperation.

The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete and redirect'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 17:06, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

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==== NEW NOMINATIONS ====

:{{lc|Rangoon}}<br/>

<!-- Please add the newest nominations below this line -->

*{{{3|'''Delete''', I have moved all articles from this cat to [[:Category:Yangon]], because "Rangoon" is the antiquated name. [[User:Hintha|Hintha]] 00:05, 11 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

*'''Comment:''' Did you talk this over with other editors, and then form a consensus on Yangon/Rangoon? It may well be better-known by its antiquated name. -[[User:JHFTC|Toptomcat]] 00:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

:I was given approval on Wikiproject Burma/Myanmar to do so, and there were no objections for relocating the articles. Because using "Rangoon/Yangon" may be controversial (because some users claim, as in the "Burma/Myanmar" case, is not neutral in point of view, and can be interpreted as having political leanings toward the democracy movement in Myanmar. --[[User:Hintha|Hintha]] 00:41, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

**'''Question''' for Hintha. I see a discussion on [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Burma/Myanmar|project talk]] about [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Burma/Myanmar#Moving_cats_that_use_.22Myanmar.22_as_an_adjective|using "Myanma" as an adjective rather than "Myanma"]], but no recent discussion there about Rangoon/Yangon. [[Talk:Yangon]] opens with a discussion about using Rangon or Yangoon, but it has been sporadic (with a lot of undated contributions) and the last post was over a month ago: there appears to me to be no consensus. [[Category talk:Yangon]] is empty.<br />Please can you give us a link to the discussion you are referring to in which you were given approval? --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|BrownHairedGirl]] ^{[[User_talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])} 11:45, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete or Redirect''', seeing as how it's pretty much done already. --[[User:Wizardman|<span style="color:#0D0;background:#009">Wizardman</span>]] 00:57, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' The main article is at [[Yangon]], and the name of the category should match. [[User:Bluap|Bluap]] 18:59, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''CategoryRedirect''', ''Rangoon'' is definitely the better known term. like the movie [[Beyond Rangoon]], and activities of a certain [[Jane Fonda]]... [[User:132.205.44.134|132.205.44.134]] 23:19, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Tree of life ====

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:''The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''

The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''no consensus''', and [[:Category:Organisms]] has been created now anyway. Further discussion at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tree of Life]]. [[User:the wub|the wub]] [[User_talk:The wub|<span style="color:green;">"?!"</span>]] 15:49, 26 January 2007 (UTC) <br/>

:'''Propose renaming [[:Category:Tree of life]]''' to [[:Category:Organisms]]

*{{{3|'''Rename''', "Tree of life" in an unintuitive name for the supercategory of all organisms and types of organisms. [[User:Ragesoss|ragesoss]] 23:41, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

*'''Support.''' Keep the nifty picture, though- it will remain germaine to the cat. -[[User:JHFTC|Toptomcat]] 00:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Support.''' with the suggestion that [[Phylogeny]] might be an equally approriate new name. [[User:Kail Ceannai|Kail Ceannai]] 07:36, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Support''', prefer ''Phylogency'' as the target, given what the subcategorization contains. [[User:Serpent's Choice|Serpent&#39;s Choice]] 09:04, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

::Part of the reason why I proposed "Organisms" is that it allows a better stream-lining of related categories, while it is less likely to be populated with other types of articles. In addition to organisms, there are many concepts related to phylogeny. Likewise, there are many organism categories where phylogeny is not the common factor ([[:Category:Aquatic organisms]], for example). As it stands, the only place for such non-evolutionary organism categories is the overpopulated supercategory "Biology", and this would still be the case if "Tree of life" were changed to "Phylogeny".--[[User:Ragesoss|ragesoss]] 13:36, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Rename''' per nom. Existing name is highly ambiguous (see [[Tree of life]]), and the branch does not exclusively contain articles ''about'' "phylogeny" though it may ''be'' a phylogeny itself. -[[User:Choster|choster]] 15:26, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Rename''' Name is too informal and sounds like a miracle cure in a fantasy novel. --- [[User:Safemariner|Safemariner]] 01:19, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Comment''' The Tree of Life isn't technically the organisms themselves but their relationships, or rather it is about their relationships. The organisms are life, how they are tied together by their common descent, or their phylogenetic systematics is the Tree of Life. However, Choster is right, the existing name is ambiguous to the point of uselessness, and it's quite clear by what's in the tree of life, that the category IS the organisms and various subsidiary things, not their relationships. This should be posted at [[WP:TOL]] to get input from people in the know who can suggest a functioning category, if one is needed. [[User:KP Botany|KP Botany]] 02:55, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

::You raise a valid point, but I think all the non-organism pages currently in ''Tree of life'' can easily find homes in existing categories (''Phylogenetics'' or ''Evolution''). As it is, this category is an unwieldy hybrid. Thanks for mentioning it on the WikiProject, which I totally forgot about.--[[User:Ragesoss|ragesoss]] 16:16, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Comment''' — if the category is going to be treated as the highest category for organisms, then it may be synonymous with [[:Category:Life]], which already exists (the highest taxon is [[Biota (taxonomy)|Biota]], or [[life]]).

::''Life'' is much more inclusive that ''Organisms''; it includes all kinds of philosophical, scientific, anthropological, sociological, and other kinds of of articles (Life extension, Biology, Artificial life). ''Organisms'' is neatly delimited in ways ''Life'' is not.--[[User:Ragesoss|ragesoss]] 15:58, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Support''' - [[User:UtherSRG|UtherSRG]] [[User_talk:UtherSRG|(talk)]] 16:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Comment''' Let's NOT rename this category. Let's just create the category Organisms. Again, they're NOT the same thing, making this category something it's not is just pointless. It's like saying we don't need the category One-wheeled-bicycles, so let's rename it DVD players, because we need a category for DVD players--the two are not the same, whether we have one or the other is not a function of the existence of the one or the other. I'd like a little sense to come over WP:CFD at some point. [[User:KP Botany|KP Botany]] 22:28, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''do NOT rename''' at least not without the consensus of those who use the category. Tree of Life has a specific meaning, it indicates a relationship to other projects, it is used elsewhere. and whatever is done, do not move pages unnecessarily into evolution, of all WP topics the hardest to manage because of the different approaches. of course things could go elsewhere, but what's here is here for a reason. However, the category: organism would be a good one and after we reject this renaming it can easily be started & the appropriate pages added. trust KP.'''[[User:DGG|DGG]]''' 05:19, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Comment'''. There is ongoing discussion of the talk page of the Tree of Life WikiProject: [[WP:TOL]]. Given that the consensus is clearly in favor of creating the ''Organisms'' category, that's been done. What's not clear is what to do with the Tree of Life category, but since some editors see a different role for it than as the supercategory of all organisms, deletion is probably not the answer. At this point, this renaming discussion is moot. But please join the discussion on WP:TOL.--[[User:Ragesoss|ragesoss]] 17:06, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

'''Do not rename''' I think Tree of Life is a valid category. It is about looking at the phylogenetic relationships of organisms. I think the name is clear and understandable for that sense. Any article that discusses the phylogentic relationship of living organiisms, or sub-group or living organisms, is a good fit for this category. -- [[User talk:Dalbury|<b style="color:navy;">Donald Albury</b>]] 01:17, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Best Original Song Golden Globe winners ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''merge to [[:Category:Best Original Song Golden Globe winners]]'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 16:08, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

:[[:Category:Best Original Song Golden Globe winners]] into [[:Category:Best Original Song Golden Globe]]

*'''Merge''' - I created the former without realizing that the latter already existed. But as long as the subject's come up, can we use this nomination to come to a consensus as to whether the categories for Golden Globe winners should include the word "winners"? Looking at the parent cat [[:Category:Golden Globe Awards]] some have "winners," some don't and some have two categories, one with and one without. Makes me no never mind which way we go (although I have a slight preference for including "winners" for consistency with other awards categories such as the Academy Awards) but we should choose one or the other. [[User:Otto4711|Otto4711]] 22:46, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Comment''': I like 'winners' myself, unless the category contains articles which are ''not'' only about the winners (controversies surrounding who it went to on a particular year, an article on the award itself, et cetera) -[[User:JHFTC|Toptomcat]] 00:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Merge either way''', distinction is not particularly useful. [[User_talk:Radiant!|<b><span style="color:#DD0000;">&gt;<span style="color:#FF6600;">R<span style="color:#FF9900;">a<span style="color:#FFCC00;">d<span style="color:#FFEE00;">i</span>a</span>n</span>t</span>&lt;</span></b>]] 13:27, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Merge to [[:Category:Best Original Song Golden Globe winners]]''' They obviously should be merged one way or another. Just my own opinion, I think including the word "winners" sounds a little better and makes it a little more clear what the category is for. But [[:Category:Best Original Song Golden Globe]] would be acceptable too if that's what other people prefer. [[User:Dugwiki|Dugwiki]] 18:24, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:The Art of Noise ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''rename'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 16:06, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

:'''Propose renaming [[:Category:The Art of Noise]]''' to [[:Category:Art of Noise]]

:'''Propose renaming [[:Category:The Art of Noise albums]]''' to [[:Category:Art of Noise albums]]

:'''Propose renaming [[:Category:The Art of Noise songs]]''' to [[:Category:Art of Noise songs]]

*{{{3|'''Rename''', Artist name was renamed; change of category name to match. [[User:Pbryan|pbryan]] 22:12, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

*'''Rename''' per nom. -[[User:JHFTC|Toptomcat]] 00:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Rename''' per nom. --[[User:Wizardman|<span style="color:#0D0;background:#009">Wizardman</span>]] 00:58, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Maps of Oklahoma ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''merge'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 16:05, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

:[[:Category:Maps of Oklahoma]] into [[:Category:Oklahoma maps]]

*'''Merge''', Essentially the same, but don't know which is the correct name. [[User:OKtag|OKtag]] 18:45, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Merge''' into [[:Category:Oklahoma maps]] because many maps will be of small parts of the state, not "of Oklahoma" as such. [[User:Honbicot|Honbicot]] 18:51, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Merge''' into ''[[:Category:Oklahoma maps]]'', convention of ''[[:Category:Maps of the United States]]'' -- <i>[[User:ProveIt|Prove It]] ^{[[User talk:ProveIt|(talk)]]}</i> 22:28, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Merge''' per Honbicot. -[[User:JHFTC|Toptomcat]] 00:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Merge''' to match the rest of the U.S. [[User:Hmains|Hmains]] 02:41, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Maps of Texas ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''merge'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 16:03, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

:[[:Category:Maps of Texas]] into [[:Category:Texas maps]]

*'''Merge''', Essentially the same, but don't know which is the correct name. [[User:OKtag|OKtag]] 18:45, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Merge''' into [[:Category:Texas maps]] because many maps will be of small parts of the state, not "of Texas" as such. [[User:Honbicot|Honbicot]] 18:51, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Merge''' into ''[[:Category:Texas maps]]'', convention of ''[[:Category:Maps of the United States]]'' -- <i>[[User:ProveIt|Prove It]] ^{[[User talk:ProveIt|(talk)]]}</i> 22:23, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Merge''' per Honbicot. -[[User:JHFTC|Toptomcat]] 00:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Merge''' per nom to match rest of U.S. states [[User:Hmains|Hmains]] 02:42, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

====Golden Globe nominees====

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:''The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''

The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 17:01, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

* [[:Category:Best Director Golden Globe Nominee]]

* [[:Category:Best Drama Actor Golden Globe Nominee (film)]]

* [[:Category:Best Drama Actor Golden Globe Nominee (television)]]

* [[:Category:Best Drama Actress Golden Globe Nominee (film)]]

* [[:Category:Best Drama Actress Golden Globe Nominee (television)]]

* [[:Category:Best Drama Picture Golden Globe Nominee]]

* [[:Category:Best Drama Series Golden Globe Nominee]]

* [[:Category:Best Musical or Comedy Actor Golden Globe Nominee (film)]]

* [[:Category:Best Musical or Comedy Actor Golden Globe Nominee (television)]]

* [[:Category:Best Musical or Comedy Actress Golden Globe Nominee (film)]]

* [[:Category:Best Musical or Comedy Actress Golden Globe Nominee (television)]]

* [[:Category:Best Musical or Comedy Picture Golden Globe Nominee]]

* [[:Category:Best Musical or Comedy Picture Golden Globe nominees]]

* [[:Category:Best Musical or Comedy Series Golden Globe Nominee]]

* [[:Category:Best Supporting Actor Golden Globe Nominee (television)]]

* [[:Category:Best Supporting Actor Golden Globe Nominee (film)]]

* [[:Category:Best Supporting Actress Golden Globe Nominee (television)]]

* [[:Category:Best Supporting Actress Golden Globe Nominee (film)]]

* [[:Category:Films featuring a Best Drama Actor Golden Globe nominated performance]]

* [[:Category:Films featuring a Best Drama Actress Golden Globe nominated performance]]

* [[:Category:Films featuring a Best Musical or Comedy Actor Golden Globe nominated performance]]

* [[:Category:Films featuring a Best Musical or Comedy Actress Golden Globe nominated performance]]

* [[:Category:Films featuring a Best Supporting Actor Golden Globe nominated performance]]

* [[:Category:Films featuring a Best Supporting Actress Golden Globe nominated performance]]

* [[:Category:Golden Globe-nominated films]]

:'''''Delete all''' as [[Wikipedia:Overcategorization#Candidates_and_nominees|nominee]] categories.'' -- <i>[[User:ProveIt|Prove It]] ^{[[User talk:ProveIt|(talk)]]}</i> 17:37, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*''Delete all'' as above, should normally only be categorizing award winners, not nominees. [[User:Dugwiki|Dugwiki]] 18:53, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete all''' - It is too cumbersome to track award nominees through categories. [[User:Dr. Submillimeter|Dr. Submillimeter]] 19:04, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete all'''. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collction of information. --[[User:Wizardman|<span style="color:#0D0;background:#009">Wizardman</span>]] 00:59, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete all''' Not likely to be complete. [[User:Thepangelinanpost|Jordan]] 01:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete all''' per above. [[User:Doczilla|Doczilla]] 05:51, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*Concur with deletion. [[User_talk:Radiant!|<b><span style="color:#DD0000;">&gt;<span style="color:#FF6600;">R<span style="color:#FF9900;">a<span style="color:#FFCC00;">d<span style="color:#FFEE00;">i</span>a</span>n</span>t</span>&lt;</span></b>]] 13:27, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete all''', concur exactly with Wizardman: Wikipedia is ''not'' an indiscriminate collection of information. These lists of awards nominees can easily be found on dozens of other websites, but using categories on Wikipedia is not an appropriate way to house the information. --[[User:Cyde|<span style="color:#ff66ff;">'''Cyde Weys'''</span>]] 16:50, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', maybe lists (''maybe''), but definitely not categories. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] 15:17, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' all nominee categories. --[[User:Lquilter|lquilter]] 15:40, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

**See also a [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_January_12#Category:Academy_Awards|related discussion]]. -- <i>[[User:ProveIt|Prove It]] ^{[[User talk:ProveIt|(talk)]]}</i> 14:34, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Reservoirs of Greece ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''speedy delete'''. [[User:the wub|the wub]] [[User_talk:The wub|<span style="color:green;">"?!"</span>]] 13:11, 11 January 2007 (UTC) <br/>

:{{lc|Reservoirs of Greece}}<br/>

{{{3|Empty category replaced by [[:Category:Reservoirs in Greece]]. [[User:Skysmith|Skysmith]] 17:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

* '''Speedy delete''' --[[User:Lquilter|lquilter]] 17:50, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

* '''Speedy delete''' this one. The 'snowball's chance in Hell' standard applies. -[[User:JHFTC|Toptomcat]] 00:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' per nom and being blank. --[[User:Wizardman|<span style="color:#0D0;background:#009">Wizardman</span>]] 00:59, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:English laws ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''keep separate'''. Given the comments about clearer naming, I recommend a new listing to find an alternatvie name. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 20:30, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

:New listing at [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 January 17#Category:English laws]]. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 21:00, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

:[[:Category:English laws]] into [[:Category:English law]]

*'''Merge''', Actually I am not quite sure what kind of merge would be appropriate but I think these categories at least overlap a great deal. [[User:Skysmith|Skysmith]] 17:11, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. The first category is for individual laws, the latter for the whole field. -[[User:Choster|choster]] 17:21, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' per choster. Different concepts, both cats needed. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|BrownHairedGirl]] ^{[[User_talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])} 18:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' "Laws" is or should be for enactments, while "law" is the overall category for articles about law. [[User:Honbicot|Honbicot]] 18:52, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Keep but rename as something''' - The subtle difference in semantics is not necessarily going to be recognized by the average reader. Worse, a simple typo or mistaken use of the plural or singular form could place an article in the wrong category. The two should not be merged, but one of them should be renamed for clarification. [[User:Dr. Submillimeter|Dr. Submillimeter]] 19:08, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Rename''' to something like [[:Category:English statutes]] or [[:Category:English legal acts]] perhaps? [[User:Otto4711|Otto4711]] 19:17, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

**'''Comment''' Otto4711, did you look at [[:Category:English laws]] and its subcats? It includes [[Magna Carta]] and some treaties, which seem to me to be sensible, but neither are statutes. How about renamuing [[:Category:English laws]] as [[:Category:Laws of England]]? --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|BrownHairedGirl]] ^{[[User_talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])} 21:36, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

* comment: If "laws" is used to refer only to enactments then perhaps "statutes" would be a better category name, and more distinctive from "law". It would also get us out of potentially dealing with folks including in the category common law "laws" and maybe would help keep people from including non-sovereign laws (like religious laws or laws of nature). I only float it this as a comment because I'm not at all knowledgeable about international uses of these terms. --[[User:Lquilter|lquilter]] 20:09, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' as related but distinct categories. -[[User:JHFTC|Toptomcat]] 00:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Merge either way''', distinction is not particularly useful. [[User_talk:Radiant!|<b><span style="color:#DD0000;">&gt;<span style="color:#FF6600;">R<span style="color:#FF9900;">a<span style="color:#FFCC00;">d<span style="color:#FFEE00;">i</span>a</span>n</span>t</span>&lt;</span></b>]] 13:27, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' The distinction is extremely useful and removing it would create an almighty mess. [[User:Pinoakcourt|Pinoakcourt]] 13:56, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' distinct, I'm not sure if the way these categories are designed is exactly how the phrases are normally interpreted, but English law usually refers to the legal system of England and Wales, and English laws I believe is being used for historical laws from before the union between Scotland and Ireland, or laws of the United Kingdom which apply only to England. [[User:Kurando|Kurando]] | [[User talk:Kurando|^_^]] 14:10, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Rename''' to something more distinctive. While the arguments of the "Keep"ers are persuasive, they still do not speak to the very high chance of confusing the people who Wikipedia is supposed to serve when they are looking for information in this area. (Hint: it is not the Enlish law buffs who already know everything about this subject) --- [[User:Safemariner|Safemariner]] 02:39, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''keep distinct''' It is not necessary to be a specialist in this sort of thing to see the totally different topics in the two categories. They are large categories as well, and much would be lost by merging them. '''[[User:DGG|DGG]]''' 05:21, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

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==== Category:Pages referenced by the press ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''rename'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 17:08, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

:'''Propose renaming [[:Category:Pages referenced by the press]]''' to [[:Category:Wikipedia pages referenced by the press]]

*{{{3|'''Rename''', This category was previously moved from "Articles referenced by the press", but I still don't think the name is correct. "Pages referenced by the press" is very vague and doesn't automatically trigger anything in my mind saying that it's specifically talking about Wikipedia pages. It could also be talking about any sort of page in any resource referenced by the press. My new suggested name takes care of the ambiguity. --[[User:Cyde|<span style="color:#ff66ff;">'''Cyde Weys'''</span>]] 17:01, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

*'''Rename''' Agree with the above - current name is not very clear. [[User:CiaranG|CiaranG]] 19:08, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Rename''' per nominator. -[[User:JHFTC|Toptomcat]] 00:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Rename''' per nom [[User:Doczilla|Doczilla]] 05:52, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

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==== Category:Old Norse poems ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 17:01, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

:{{lc|Old Norse poems}}<br/>

{{{3|Empty category replaced by [[:Category:Old Norse poetry]]. [[User:Skysmith|Skysmith]] 16:54, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

*'''Delete.''' If there were a ''lot'' more development in the area, I could see them being kept separate, but as is it's just redundant. -[[User:JHFTC|Toptomcat]] 00:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' empty category already covered by Old Norse poetry. [[User:Doczilla|Doczilla]] 01:03, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

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==== Category:Norse sagas ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''reverse merge''', but keep [[:Category:Sagas]] as parent since there is a [[list of sagas]]. --[[User:RobertG|RobertG]] ♬ [[User talk:RobertG|talk]] 09:48, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

:{{lc|Norse sagas}}<br/>

{{{3|Empty category replaced by [[:Category:Sagas]]. [[User:Skysmith|Skysmith]] 16:45, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

*'''Reverse merge'''; [[:Category:Norse sagas]] is older and the main article is [[Norse saga]], and the specificity helps prevent [[epic]]s or worse from being included given the loose usage of the word (e.g. "the ''Star Wars'' saga").-[[User:Choster|choster]] 16:56, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Reverse merge'''. But we probably want to keep [[:Category:Sagas]] as the parent since there are other sagas. I'm assuming that someone knows all of these are Norse sagas. [[User:Vegaswikian|Vegaswikian]] 03:51, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

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==== Category:Australian rock drummers ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''no consensus'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 21:03, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

:{{lc|Australian rock drummers}}<br/>

{{{3|'''Delete''', Redundant against [[:Category:Australian drummers]]. The category is empty. [[User talk:Orderinchaos78|Orderinchaos78]] 15:50, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

*'''Merge''' per nom. [[User_talk:Radiant!|<b><span style="color:#DD0000;">&gt;<span style="color:#FF6600;">R<span style="color:#FF9900;">a<span style="color:#FFCC00;">d<span style="color:#FFEE00;">i</span>a</span>n</span>t</span>&lt;</span></b>]] 16:38, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' and populate as it should be a subcategory of [[:Category:Australian rock musicians]]. [[User:Honbicot|Honbicot]] 18:53, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' and populate - changed my mind having read [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Musicians/Categorization]] which I should have done in the first place. [[User:CiaranG|CiaranG]] 21:15, 12 January 2007 (UTC) <s>'''Merge''' Where does it end? Pop drummers, indie rock drummers, heavy metal drummers, jazz drummers? The mind boggles. [[User:CiaranG|CiaranG]] 19:10, 10 January 2007 (UTC)</s>

*'''Keep''' and populate per [[User:Honbicot|Honbicot]]. This is the main defining characteristic for most of its members. [[User:Pinoakcourt|Pinoakcourt]] 13:58, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' - defining characteristic of its members? What members? It doesn't have any members! No need to subdivide drummers by genre.

*'''Delete''' empty categories are not very useful. --- [[User:Safemariner|Safemariner]] 02:41, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' or (at most) delete ''without prejudice to recreate''. This fits in perfectly with the general categorization scheme at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Musicians/Categorization]] which is widely accepted and generally non-controversial. The fact that this ''particular'' category is not yet populated merely indicates that our coverage is still lacking. It may not be in use ''today'', but "rock music" ''is'' a very broad genre. We have dozens of sub-sub-genre categories for guitarists of various nationalities (particularly American), including indie-rock, heavy-metal, etc.. And yes, there are fewer articles about drummers than about guitarists, but there is still plenty of room for expansion here. Singling out Aussie rock drummers for non-categorization seems like blatant systemic bias, unless we allow it to be recreated once people are ready to populate it. Why Aussies and not [[:Category:American rock drummers]] (well populated, reinforcing my "systemic bias" theory)? What about [[:Category:Serbian blues guitarists]], [[:Category:Polish folk guitarists]] or [[:Category:Finnish heavy metal guitarists]]? Frankly, I suspect that there are way more notable Aussie rock drummers than potential members of those last three! [[User:Xtifr|Xtifr]] _{[[User talk:Xtifr|tälk]]} 20:56, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

:*Why do you assume bad faith or systemic bias? Is it not possible that the nominator did not know about the other categories you listed as counter-examples? Which counter-examples I don't much see the need for either, but regardless their existence or non-existence has no bearing on whether ''this'' category should be kept. [[User:Otto4711|Otto4711]] 00:13, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

::*I definitely don't assume bad faith—systemic bias is usually unintended and innocently done. I've got no quarrel with nom, who saw an empty category and, quite reasonably, nominated it for deletion. I'm just saying that this is part of a bigger categorization scheme being run by the Musician Wikiproject. ''That'' is the biggest argument for keeping (or deleting without prejudice if it is deleted). There's ''lots'' of room for expansion here, even though the category is currently empty, and the category ''is'' part of a well-established categorization scheme. Which is ''usually'' considered a good argument for keeping a category. This is not a randomly-created category, it's part of a larger plan. If you've got a problem with that plen, that should probably be discussed at the project page. But otherwise... --[[User:Xtifr|Xtifr]] _{[[User talk:Xtifr|tälk]]} 12:34, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

::**I tend to agree that delete without prejudice is the best choice --- [[User:Safemariner|Safemariner]] 17:30, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

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==== Category:Companies of Macao ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''speedy deleted'''. [[User:the wub|the wub]] [[User_talk:The wub|<span style="color:green;">"?!"</span>]] 13:12, 11 January 2007 (UTC) <br/>

:{{lc|Companies of Macao}}<br/>

{{{3|Empty category creator has already blanked. [[User:Skysmith|Skysmith]] 15:22, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

*'''Speedy delete''', empty and duplicate of [[:Category:Companies of Macau]].-[[User:Choster|choster]] 16:18, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Redirect''', do not delete as "Macao" is a legitimate spelling, even if it isn't the one that has been chosen. [[User:Honbicot|Honbicot]] 18:54, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Comment''' - The category no longer exists. Perhaps it was speedy deleted because it was empty? [[User:Dr. Submillimeter|Dr. Submillimeter]] 19:09, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

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==== Category:Ethiopian visual arts ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 17:02, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

:{{lc|Ethiopian visual arts}}<br/>

{{{3|Empty category replaced by [[:Category:Arts in Ethiopia]]. [[User:Skysmith|Skysmith]] 15:16, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

*'''Keep''' and populate. These are not the same thing at all. [[User:Nathanian|Nathanian]] 15:38, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Merge''', it's indeed not the same, but the overlap is obvious. [[User_talk:Radiant!|<b><span style="color:#DD0000;">&gt;<span style="color:#FF6600;">R<span style="color:#FF9900;">a<span style="color:#FFCC00;">d<span style="color:#FFEE00;">i</span>a</span>n</span>t</span>&lt;</span></b>]] 16:38, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', category is empty so there is nothing to merge. Articles may be suitable for [[:Category:Arts in Ethiopia]], [[:Category:Ethiopian art]], or a subcategory of [[:Category:Arts genres by country or nationality]], all of which are subcategorized under [[:Category:Visual arts]] which has no other subdivision by political or cultural body. -[[User:Choster|choster]] 16:50, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Comment''' This is an example of the inconsistency created by a botched reorganisation last year, which left the global and national art/arts/visual arts categories out of alignment. [[User:Honbicot|Honbicot]] 18:56, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' Empty categories are not very useful --- [[User:Safemariner|Safemariner]] 02:42, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

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==== Category:Costin ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 17:01, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

:{{lc|Costin}}<br/>

{{{3|Category out of context and blanked by the creator. [[User:Skysmith|Skysmith]] 15:09, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

*'''Delete''' per Skysmith. [[User:Budgiekiller|Budgiekiller]] 18:47, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*Catgory has already been deleted. This discussion should be closed --- [[User:Safemariner|Safemariner]] 02:43, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

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====[[:Category:Golden Globe Award nominees]]====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 17:01, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

:'''''Delete''' as [[Wikipedia:Overcategorization#Candidates_and_nominees|nominee]] category.'' -- <i>[[User:ProveIt|Prove It]] ^{[[User talk:ProveIt|(talk)]]}</i> 14:53, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', use a list instead, it's more comprehensive. [[User_talk:Radiant!|<b><span style="color:#DD0000;">&gt;<span style="color:#FF6600;">R<span style="color:#FF9900;">a<span style="color:#FFCC00;">d<span style="color:#FFEE00;">i</span>a</span>n</span>t</span>&lt;</span></b>]] 16:38, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' nominee category. --[[User:Lquilter|lquilter]] 20:05, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' or maybe '''listify'''. Even if a list is made should probabyl de deleted anyway. --[[User:Wizardman|<span style="color:#0D0;background:#009">Wizardman</span>]] 01:00, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' I nominate this category for deletion --- [[User:Safemariner|Safemariner]] 02:44, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' nominee category. A list would be better. [[User:Thepangelinanpost|Jordan]] 23:17, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

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==== Category:Cities named for Kirov ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 16:58, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

:{{lc|Cities named for Kirov}}<br/>

{{{3|subcategory of deleted category ''Cities named for Soviet leaders'' (unless somebody has a better idea, that is. [[User:Skysmith|Skysmith]] 14:48, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

*'''Delete''', not a defining characteristic. Add a list in the [[Kirov]] article. [[User_talk:Radiant!|<b><span style="color:#DD0000;">&gt;<span style="color:#FF6600;">R<span style="color:#FF9900;">a<span style="color:#FFCC00;">d<span style="color:#FFEE00;">i</span>a</span>n</span>t</span>&lt;</span></b>]] 16:38, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' - A series of other categories for cities named after people (Lincoln, Columbus, etc) were already deleted because the cities had little in common with each other aside from their names. The same could probably be said here. [[User:Dr. Submillimeter|Dr. Submillimeter]] 19:11, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''''Delete''' as [[Wikipedia:Overcategorization#Unrelated_subjects_with_shared_names|unrelated subjects with shared names]].'' -- <i>[[User:ProveIt|Prove It]] ^{[[User talk:ProveIt|(talk)]]}</i> 22:31, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' Not useful --- [[User:Safemariner|Safemariner]] 02:45, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

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==== UK MPs ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''"no" to en-dashes; no consensus on Grutness' rename proposal.''' In the light of BrownHairedGirl's statement that these categories were created for the convenience of cross-checking by contributors to the subject area, may I suggest that consideration be given to whether these categories should be treated as ''maintenance categories''? They should perhaps be placed on the articles' ''talk'' pages, and not on the articles themselves? All the articles perhaps belong in [[:Category:Members of the United Kingdom Parliament]]. --[[User:RobertG|RobertG]] ♬ [[User talk:RobertG|talk]] 10:55, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Moved from speedy. '''No vote''' [[User:the wub|the wub]] [[User_talk:The wub|<span style="color:green;">"?!"</span>]] 14:49, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*Typographical errors ([[hyphen]] should be an [[en dash]]) nominated by —[[User:Psychonaut|Psychonaut]] 15:28, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1801-1802]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1801–1802]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1802-1806]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1802–1806]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1806-1807]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1806–1807]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1807-1812]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1807–1812]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1812-1818]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1812–1818]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1818-1820]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1818–1820]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1820-1826]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1820–1826]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1826-1830]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1826–1830]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1830-1831]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1830–1831]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1831-1832]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1831–1832]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1832-1835]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1832–1835]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1835-1837]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1835–1837]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1837-1841]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1837–1841]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1841-1847]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1841–1847]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1847-1852]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1847–1852]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1852-1857]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1852–1857]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1857-1859]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1857–1859]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1859-1865]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1859–1865]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1865-1868]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1865–1868]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1868-1874]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1868–1874]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1874-1880]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1874–1880]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1880-1885]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1880–1885]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1885-1886]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1885–1886]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1886-1892]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1886–1892]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1892-1895]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1892–1895]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1895-1900]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1895–1900]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1900-1906]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1900–1906]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1906-1910]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1906–1910]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1910-1918]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1910–1918]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1918-1922]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1918–1922]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1922-1923]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1922–1923]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1923-1924]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1923–1924]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1924-1929]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1924–1929]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1929-1931]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1929–1931]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1931-1935]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1931–1935]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1935-1945]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1935–1945]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1945-1950]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1945–1950]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1950-1951]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1950–1951]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1951-1955]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1951–1955]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1955-1959]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1955–1959]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1959-1964]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1959–1964]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1964-1966]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1964–1966]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1966-1970]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1966–1970]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1970-1974]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1970–1974]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1974-1979]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1974–1979]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1979-1983]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1979–1983]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1983-1987]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1983–1987]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1987-1992]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1987–1992]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1992-1997]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1992–1997]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1997-2001]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 1997–2001]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 2001-2005]] to [[:Category:UK MPs 2001–2005]]

**Semi-addition:

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1974]]

**[[:Category:UK MPs 1910]]

**These were "short Parliaments" within one calendar year. Any change to the standard names beyond [[en dash]]es/[[hyphens]] should also apply to these two. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 16:30, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

***'''Change all to [[:Category:United Kingdom Members of Parliament 2001–2005]] and similar'''. "UK MPs"is not standard naming. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''[[User_talk:Grutness|<small style="color:#008822;">wha?</small>]]'' 03:01, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

****Why do we use en-dashs in category names? Seems to be a typing annoyance not worth the typographic gain. [[User:Kusma|Kusma]] [[User_talk:Kusma|(討論)]] 09:34, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*****Agreed. I don't think non-standard-ASCII punctuation is appropriate. If nothing else, it'll make the URLs look really silly. And "UK MPs" is far from the optimal naming convention for these categories anyway. Recommend taking it to CFD. --[[User:Cyde|<span style="color:#ff66ff;">'''Cyde Weys'''</span>]] 14:10, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

**'''Oppose endash''' - non-standard characters - while endash may look better, people are more likely to type hyphen than dash. Keep endash to textspace. Grutness's suggestion above however has merit and should be considered as an alternative to standardise the names. [[User talk:Orderinchaos78|Orderinchaos78]] 15:53, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Object''', use standard characters if possible. [[User_talk:Radiant!|<b><span style="color:#DD0000;">&gt;<span style="color:#FF6600;">R<span style="color:#FF9900;">a<span style="color:#FFCC00;">d<span style="color:#FFEE00;">i</span>a</span>n</span>t</span>&lt;</span></b>]] 16:38, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*Now that it's at CFD, I support Grutness's proposal. "UK MPs" is a bad category name. I figured out what UK is, but I didn't really know what MP meant until Grutness expanded it. I thought MP stood for Military Police ... (a more common use of the abbreviation in the United States, anyway). --[[User:Cyde|<span style="color:#ff66ff;">'''Cyde Weys'''</span>]] 17:05, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Grutness with hyphen not dash''', although the meaning of the abbreviated categories should be pretty clear in the context of the articles they're used on. [[User:Kusma|Kusma]] [[User_talk:Kusma|(討論)]] 18:20, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Kusma''' [[User:Budgiekiller|Budgiekiller]] 18:49, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Oppose ndash''' (a nuisance to type, keep it endash in textspace);<br />'''very very strong oppose''' grutness rename (I am the creator of these categs). MPs usually serve for several parliaments, so most MPs have three or four of these categories, and some have up to ten. These category names were chosen precisely because they are short, after a previous attempt to create them with long names led to a massive clutter at the bottom of articles (for the worst case see [[T. P. O'Connor]] as it is now, and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=T._P._O%27Connor&oldid=70245283 as it was with longer names]. (Note that Grutness's names would be even longer).<br />These categories are very useful, but they are only workable with short names, and these are intentionally as short as possible.<br />For earlier discussions, see [[Category talk:British_MPs#MPs_by_Parliament]]; [[Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 August 14#category:MPs_of_the_United_Kingdom_House_of_Commons.2C_by_Parliament_and_subcategories]] (see also [[Category_talk:British_MPs#CFD_for_MPs_by_Parliament|Kbdank71's explanation of the closing decision]].<br />Further discussions at [[Category talk:British MPs#Renaming_subcategories_after_restructuring]].<br />Note that the since it is useful to categorise MPs in several different ways (by country, party and parliament), a compromise has to be made between clarity and brevity. Every article on an MP should spell out the abbreviation, so it should be clear when viewed; if not, the category text should clarify. -[[User:BrownHairedGirl|BrownHairedGirl]] ^{[[User_talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])} 18:51, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Comment''' - Sorting people by the terms that they served in a government body (in this case, the parliaments that they served in) is not good, as it leads to lots of categories cluttering the bottoms of individual articles. I am inclined to vote to upmerge or delete, although I am now confused because the discussion is in two different places. [[User:Dr. Submillimeter|Dr. Submillimeter]] 19:22, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

**I have found it extremely useful to find all the MPs by Parliament, and you can see why by going to the talk pages for some of the later categories. While links in the articles on MPs elected by general election may turn blue because of someone with a similar name but who is not an MP, only the MP will find his article in the category. The categories therefore guarantee that when we say "There are articles on every person who has sat in Parliament since 1964", that this is absolutely true. [[User:Sam Blacketer|Sam Blacketer]] 19:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

***'''Comment''' There is a lot of merit in what Dr. Submillimeter says, but I created these categories to assist in populating the lists of MPs, as Sam Blacketer describes. I am inclined to think that they might cease to be so important once we have at least a stub article on every MP, but despite a very fast pace of article creation, that point is some way off yet (at a rough guess, we have over half of about 6,000 articles created). In the meantime, these categories are invaluable for cross-checking the integrity of the lists, and for identifying all sorts of problems in cross-linking. Meanwhile, the shortness of the categ names helps minimise clutter. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|BrownHairedGirl]] ^{[[User_talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])} 21:22, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*I would oppose a change to an 'en' rather than a simple dash. Sometimes I go to the search panel and enter the category name and it makes it difficult if the unorthodox typography is allowed. So far as the additional suggestion of expanding the abbreviations, I can see the reason, but I accept what [[User:BrownHairedGirl|BrownHairedGirl]] says about making things very long. I also think it would be very disruptive in changing all the articles in the categories, especially since they have been changed before. [[User:Sam Blacketer|Sam Blacketer]] 19:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

**What's important is the end product (see [[m:eventualism]]). We should never shy away from doing what is right because we are worried about some short-term negatives. --[[User:Cyde|<span style="color:#ff66ff;">'''Cyde Weys'''</span>]] 23:32, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

***I happen to resile from the thought that Wikipedia could ever be 'finished', but I take your point: however, [[User:BrownHairedGirl|BrownHairedGirl]] had the answer to it, in that the categories might cease to be necessary once there were stub articles about every MP. We have only got back to 1964 so far as comprehensive coverage goes. [[User:Sam Blacketer|Sam Blacketer]] 00:22, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Oppose''' I am greatly impressed with the thoroughness and succinctness of the system as is and feel that any change whatsoever would be for the worse. [[User:Pc1dmn|roundhouse]] 01:49, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Oppose''' This is an unnecessary and pedantic proposal. [[User:Dovea|Dovea]] 17:42, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Oppose''' En dash is a non standard character. Proposed renaming is far too long. [[User:The Proffesor|The Proffesor]] 18:21, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Oppose''' En-dash, '''weak oppose''' Grutness proposal, by reason of length and difficulty of typing, which makes it hard to enter these ''de novo'' (as opposed to adding them by AWB or whatever afterwards). Agree that these are somewhat unwieldy categories, and should be considered (long-term) provisional pending the construction and proper disambiguation of lists "MPs elected in the United Kingdom general election, XXXX" and "List of United Kingdom by-elections (XXXX - XXXX)" now underway. [[User:Choess|Choess]] 20:16, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Oppose''' Very difficult to type an endash when searching --- [[User:Safemariner|Safemariner]] 02:46, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Support'''. My rationale was given in the original nomination; I therefore wish to address the arguments made by the opposition votes to date:

**The arguments about the en-dash not being a "standard character" are fallacious; the en-dash is and has long been the standard typographical symbol for expressing numerical ranges. Using a hyphen in this context is simply incorrect.

**With respect to the argument that the en-dash is "too difficult to type", the presentation of Wikipedia articles should not be determined by what is convenient for the editors, but rather what is convenient, unambiguous, and aesthetically pleasing for the readers. Moreover, the en-dash is not particularly difficult to enter; editors who don't have a dedicated key or key combination for this symbol can use the HTML entity <kbd>&amp;ndash;</kbd>.

**The argument that en-dashes make searching more difficult is a valid one, but IMHO one which should be taken up with the MediaWiki search engine developers. A good search engine should establish character equivalence classes for precisely this sort of situation. —[[User:Psychonaut|Psychonaut]] 00:21, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

::'''Reply''' to Psychonaut

::*The en-dash is not a standard character in the sense of being directly accessible from a keyboard. Yes, it's a standard in typography, but a category name is not a place for typographical exactitude (the isues here are different to those in body text)

::*To my surprise, <kbd>&amp;ndash;</kbd> in categ names does appear to work. But requiring it greatly increases the chances of inaccurate entry of categ names, which leads to either redlinked categs or editors not using the categs when they appear redlinked. Omitting categ names is far more inconvenient to the reader than having a slightly shorter dash.

::*Most importantly, categorisation has to work ''with the software we have now'', rather than ''the software we would like to have''. I wish the software allowed category arithmetic &ndash; for searches like <kbd>(([[:Category:Astronauts]] AND [[:Category:Russian people]] AND [[:Category:1804 deaths]]) AND (NOT [[:Category:Rock drummers]] or [[:Category:Vegetarians]]))</kbd> &ndash; but for now it doesn't, which is why CFD has a lot of discussion about manually-creating intersection categories. If the search engine is improved as you would like it to be, I will be delighted to support using ndashes, and we can have a mass conversion of existing categories … but for now it doesn't. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|BrownHairedGirl]] ^{[[User_talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])} 12:46, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

::Using endashes makes it difficult for readers. We editors tend to forget that readers like to search. endashes just do not offer any advantage in this situation. The web is not print media and print media typographical conventions should not be blindly imported into the web. --- [[User:Safemariner|Safemariner]] 17:37, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

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==== Category:Climate by state ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}}'''speedy delete'''. [[User:Mairi|Mairi]] 21:35, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

:{{lc|Climate by state}}<br/>

{{{3|Empty category, creator requests deletion in the text. [[User:Skysmith|Skysmith]] 14:40, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

*'''Speedy delete''' [[User:Budgiekiller|Budgiekiller]] 18:50, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Speedy delete''' [[User:Lquilter|lquilter]] 21:15, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

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==== Category:Christmas customs by country ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''speedy delete''' by creator request. '''''×'''''[[User:Meegs|Meegs]] 09:31, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

:{{lc|Christmas customs by country}}<br/>

{{{3|Empty category creator has blanked. [[User:Skysmith|Skysmith]] 14:38, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

*'''Speedy delete''', empty and duplicate of [[:Category:Christmas traditions by country]].-[[User:Choster|choster]] 16:16, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Speedy delete''' [[User:Lquilter|lquilter]] 21:15, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

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==== Category:Catholic families ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 16:56, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

:{{lc|Catholic families}}<br/>

{{{3|Empty category creator apparently blanked almost immediately. [[User:Skysmith|Skysmith]] 14:35, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

*'''Delete''' On the one hand there are so many Catholic families with little else in common that this is category clutter, while on the other hand many mainly Catholic families contain non-Catholic members, so this category could indirectly mislabel people. [[User:Nathanian|Nathanian]] 15:40, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' - completely inappropriate to describe a group of people by an individual characteristic. --[[User:Lquilter|lquilter]] 21:16, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Comment''' - Looks like Catholic families was blanked only because there is a category [[:Category:Roman Catholic families]]. I note that there are also "[[:Category:Jewish families]]" and the supercat "[[:Category:Families by religion]]". We should delete the whole C:FBR hierarchy. I reserve judgment on the Jewish families since it's used as an ethnicity as well as a religion. --[[User:Lquilter|lquilter]] 21:18, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' per nom. Also, with Lquilter, delete families by religion category. Each individual will be listed in the category of his/her religion. It is redundant. [[User:Pastordavid|Pastordavid]] 00:23, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' All such categories, including [[:Category:Jewish families]]. [[User:Pinoakcourt|Pinoakcourt]] 13:59, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' per nom. [[User:Xiner|Xiner]] ([[User talk:Xiner|talk]], [[Special:Emailuser/Xiner|email]]) 23:05, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' Empty categories are not very useful --- [[User:Safemariner|Safemariner]] 02:49, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

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==== Category:Brewpubs ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 16:56, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

:{{lc|Brewpubs}}<br/>

{{{3|Empty category replaced by [[:Category:Beer and breweries by region]]. [[User:Skysmith|Skysmith]] 14:27, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

*'''Delete''' per nom. [[User:Xiner|Xiner]] ([[User talk:Xiner|talk]], [[Special:Emailuser/Xiner|email]]) 14:32, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' as being blank. --[[User:Wizardman|<span style="color:#0D0;background:#009">Wizardman</span>]] 01:01, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' Empty categories are not very useful --- [[User:Safemariner|Safemariner]] 17:39, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

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==== Category:Bacteria organized by reaction to gram stain ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 16:56, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

:{{lc|Bacteria organized by reaction to gram stain}}<br/>

{{{3|Category no longer in use, replaced by [[:Category:Bacteria organized by reaction to stain]]. [[User:Skysmith|Skysmith]] 14:13, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

*'''Delete''' per nom. [[User:Xiner|Xiner]] ([[User talk:Xiner|talk]], [[Special:Emailuser/Xiner|email]]) 14:32, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*This sounds like it would make a better list, so '''delete'''. [[User_talk:Radiant!|<b><span style="color:#DD0000;">&gt;<span style="color:#FF6600;">R<span style="color:#FF9900;">a<span style="color:#FFCC00;">d<span style="color:#FFEE00;">i</span>a</span>n</span>t</span>&lt;</span></b>]] 16:38, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', <small>(Radiant makes a good point as well)</small> [[User:Budgiekiller|Budgiekiller]] 18:52, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' - the new category is good, though, I think, because it looks like there is a move afoot to fill in this taxonomy. --[[User:Lquilter|lquilter]] 21:23, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' Empty categories are not very useful --- [[User:Safemariner|Safemariner]] 17:40, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

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==== Category:Aviation accidents and incidents in Czechosolvakia ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''already been deleted'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 16:56, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

:{{lc|Aviation accidents and incidents in Czechosolvakia}}<br/>

{{{3|Category with a typo, based on the edit comments creator would have wanted deletion . [[User:Skysmith|Skysmith]] 14:11, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

*'''Delete''' per nom. [[User:Xiner|Xiner]] ([[User talk:Xiner|talk]], [[Special:Emailuser/Xiner|email]]) 14:33, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*Category already deleted. --- [[User:Safemariner|Safemariner]] 17:41, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

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==== Category:Portugal-related projects ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 16:56, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

:{{lc|Portugal-related projects}}<br/>

{{{3|Seems to be a double of [[:Category:WikiProject Portugal]]. [[User:Montchav|Montchav]] 13:38, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

*'''Delete''' per nom, duplicate and could end up becoming used for vaguely related Portugal pages. [[User:Budgiekiller|Budgiekiller]] 18:53, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' per Budgiekiller. [[User:Xiner|Xiner]] ([[User talk:Xiner|talk]], [[Special:Emailuser/Xiner|email]]) 23:05, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' redundant cat --- [[User:Safemariner|Safemariner]] 02:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

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==== Category:Celebrity Fit Club ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 16:50, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

:{{lc|Celebrity Fit Club}}<br/>

{{{3|Category is obsolete as participants (US and UK) are listed at [[:Category:Celebrity Fit Club participants]] --[[User:Starrycupz|Starrycupz]] 13:03, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

*'''Delete''' per nom. [[User:Xiner|Xiner]] ([[User talk:Xiner|talk]], [[Special:Emailuser/Xiner|email]]) 14:34, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' redundant category. I question the need for the other version too. [[User:Doczilla|Doczilla]] 01:05, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' Empty categories are not very useful --- [[User:Safemariner|Safemariner]] 17:41, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

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==== Category:Amusement parks accidents ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''speedily deleted''' per nom. [[User:David Kernow|David Kernow]] <span style="font-size:90%;">[[User talk:David Kernow|(talk)]]</span> 13:29, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

:{{lc|Amusement parks accidents}}<br/>

{{{3|Emty category replaced by [[:Category:Amusement park accidents]]. [[User:Skysmith|Skysmith]] 12:56, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

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==== Category:Angelina songs ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''category already deleted'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 16:25, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

:{{lc|Angelina songs}}<br/>

{{{3|Category for songs of an apparently non-notable band that has no article in Wikipedia. [[User:Skysmith|Skysmith]] 12:53, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

*'''Delete''' per nom. [[User:Xiner|Xiner]] ([[User talk:Xiner|talk]], [[Special:Emailuser/Xiner|email]]) 14:35, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' per nom, pretty clear cut. [[User:Budgiekiller|Budgiekiller]] 18:53, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Rename''' - the person who set this up seems to have got confused between [[Angelica (band)]] and the name of Brad Pitt's wife. Easy mistake to make.... This should be renamed to 'Category:Angelica songs', but I don't know how to do this. [[User:Majabl|Matthew]] 21:48, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*Please close this discussion as category seems to have already been deleted --- [[User:Safemariner|Safemariner]] 02:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

::I don't think that this category should have been deleted, but rather renamed - see my comment above. Can someone who knows how to do this do so? [[User:Majabl|Matthew]] 22:39, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

::*Proedure: Create new category and edit all articles in old category and reassign them to new category. --- [[User:Safemariner|Safemariner]] 17:43, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

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==== Category:Army groups by nationality ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 16:24, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

:{{lc|Army groups by nationality}}<br/>

{{{3|Empty category apparently replaced by [[:Category:Armies]]. [[User:Skysmith|Skysmith]] 12:52, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

*'''Delete''' per nom. [[User:Xiner|Xiner]] ([[User talk:Xiner|talk]], [[Special:Emailuser/Xiner|email]]) 14:35, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' per nom (although the actual replacement is [[:Category:Army groups]]). [[User:Kirill Lokshin|Kirill Lokshin]] 15:54, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' Empty categories are not very useful --- [[User:Safemariner|Safemariner]] 17:44, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

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==== Category:Articles lacking sources from January ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''Speedy deleted''' per CSD G6, maintenance. --[[User:Cyde|<span style="color:#ff66ff;">'''Cyde Weys'''</span>]] 23:30, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

:{{lc|Articles lacking sources from January}}<br/>

{{{3|Empty former maintenance category. [[User:Skysmith|Skysmith]] 12:50, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

*'''Delete''' per nom. [[User:Xiner|Xiner]] ([[User talk:Xiner|talk]], [[Special:Emailuser/Xiner|email]]) 14:36, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' These referencing categories are proliferating in a sorry fashion. It is possible that more time is spent on them than on referencing that can be directly attributed to their existence. [[User:Honbicot|Honbicot]] 18:59, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

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==== Category:Articles lacking sources from January 09/07 ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''Speedy deleted''' per CSD G6, maintenance. --[[User:Cyde|<span style="color:#ff66ff;">'''Cyde Weys'''</span>]] 23:30, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

:{{lc|Articles lacking sources from January 09/07}}<br/>

{{{3|Empty former maintenance category. [[User:Skysmith|Skysmith]] 12:49, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

*'''Delete''' per nom. [[User:Xiner|Xiner]] ([[User talk:Xiner|talk]], [[Special:Emailuser/Xiner|email]]) 14:36, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' These referencing categories are proliferating in a sorry fashion. It is possible that more time is spent on them than on referencing that can be directly attributed to their existence. [[User:Honbicot|Honbicot]] 18:59, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

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====Astram Line templates====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''speedy delete''', creator blanking (were blanked on December 30) and category emptiness are both speedy deletion criteria. --[[User:RobertG|RobertG]] ♬ [[User talk:RobertG|talk]] 13:03, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

:{{lc|Astram Line logos}}<br/>

{{{3|Unused category creator has already blanked. [[User:Skysmith|Skysmith]] 12:46, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

:{{lc|Astram Line pictures}}<br/>

{{{3|See above. [[User:Skysmith|Skysmith]] 12:46, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

:{{lc|Astram Line templates}}<br/>

{{{3|See above. [[User:Skysmith|Skysmith]] 12:46, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

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==== Category:Affiliates of Rover's Morning Glory ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 16:17, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

:{{lc|Affiliates of Rover's Morning Glory}}<br/>

{{{3|Depopulated and replaced category that is no longer needed. [[User:Skysmith|Skysmith]] 12:09, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

*'''Delete''' per nom. [[User:Xiner|Xiner]] ([[User talk:Xiner|talk]], [[Special:Emailuser/Xiner|email]]) 14:37, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' Empty categories are not very useful --- [[User:Safemariner|Safemariner]] 02:51, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

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==== Category:Female models ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''keep'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 16:15, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

:{{lc|Female models}}<br/>

{{{3|Please '''delete''' this category, which is pointless as all really famous models are female. [[User:Abberley2|Abberley2]] 10:48, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

* '''Keep''' They're not, that's why there is also a Category:Male models. [[User:CiaranG|CiaranG]] 11:05, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

* '''Keep''' - as above - [[User:Skysmith|Skysmith]] 12:10, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Keep''', we've got plenty of other women/men categories. <s>Maybe one day we'll</s> We already have a massive [[:Category:Women]] and [[:Category:Men]]. --[[User:Montchav|Montchav]] 13:39, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' per all. [[User:Xiner|Xiner]] ([[User talk:Xiner|talk]], [[Special:Emailuser/Xiner|email]]) 14:37, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' - one of the few gender-parity categories where we don't have to argue whether gender is significant. <g> --[[User:Lquilter|lquilter]] 15:38, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Very strong delete''' Category clutter. [[:Category:Male models]] might be justified on the same basis as certain female categories, ie that in the field of modelling notable people of one gender (male in this case) are the exception, but I would delete that too. [[User:CiaranG|CiaranG]] can't seriously think that there are anywhere close to as many famous male models as female models. [[User:Nathanian|Nathanian]] 15:42, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

:I don't think that, nor is it relevant - just two of the reasons why I didn't say that. [[User:CiaranG|CiaranG]] 12:04, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' per CiaranG. [[User_talk:Radiant!|<b><span style="color:#DD0000;">&gt;<span style="color:#FF6600;">R<span style="color:#FF9900;">a<span style="color:#FFCC00;">d<span style="color:#FFEE00;">i</span>a</span>n</span>t</span>&lt;</span></b>]] 16:38, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

:*Not sure CiaranG said '''Delete'''... [[User:Budgiekiller|Budgiekiller]] 18:56, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

:**Oops, misreading on my part. I meant "per Abberley" but Cieran's sig just seems to stand out more. [[User_talk:Radiant!|<b><span style="color:#DD0000;">&gt;<span style="color:#FF6600;">R<span style="color:#FF9900;">a<span style="color:#FFCC00;">d<span style="color:#FFEE00;">i</span>a</span>n</span>t</span>&lt;</span></b>]] 12:59, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' as all above keeps. [[User:Budgiekiller|Budgiekiller]] 18:56, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' Sparsely populated category-clutter. [[User:Honbicot|Honbicot]] 19:00, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' even though the nomination is based on a false premise. [[User:Otto4711|Otto4711]] 19:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' Normally, categories by gender are deleted. The exception would be when the person's gender actually makes a notable difference in the occupation, which presumably it does for professional models. Since there is most likely a substantial difference between being a male model and being a female model, both categories should be kept. [[User:Dugwiki|Dugwiki]] 19:47, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' per [[WP:CATGRS]], which says "A gender-specific category should only be implemented where gender has a specific relation to the topic." In this case it clearly does: modelling is a gendered occupation (if [[Kate Moss]] gets fired, they won't hire a man instead). --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|BrownHairedGirl]] ^{[[User_talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])} 21:29, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' It is underused, and people would be better off going to the national categories. If this was important or useful, it would have been used more widely. [[User:Pinoakcourt|Pinoakcourt]] 14:01, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

::Just to reply, underpopulation doesn't mean it's not useful. It could simply mean that editors aren't aware the subcategories exist and/or noone has taken the time yet to fully populate them. [[User:Dugwiki|Dugwiki]] 18:26, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' Keep per [[User:Dugwiki|Dugwiki]] above --- [[User:Safemariner|Safemariner]] 17:46, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' without a doubt[[User:Zadignose|zadignose]] 16:34, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' Underpopulation is not a reason for deletion by itself and gendered categories have their uses. [[User:Dimadick]]

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==== Category:Stalinists ====

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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. <fontspan colorstyle="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</fontspan> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''

:The result of this debate was '''speedy delete''', recreation of deleted contents. &mdash; [[User talk:Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington|<fontspan colorstyle="color:black;">'''Nearly Headless Nick'''</fontspan>]] 09:42, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

:{{lc|Stalinists}}<br/>

{{{3|category previously deleted. see [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2005_April_20#Category:Stalinists] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2005_November_6#Category:Stalinists]. [[User:Soman|Soman]] 09:34, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

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==== Category:Jewish-American businesspeople ====

<noinclude>{{Delrevafd|date=2011 March 31}}</noinclude>

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 16:13, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

:{{lc|Jewish-American businesspeople}}<br/>

{{{3|Relisting per [[Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2006 December 14|DRV]] after my deletion following [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_December_6#American_businesspeople_by_ethnicity|previous discussion]] was apparently "unethical". [[User:RobertG|RobertG]] &#9836; [[User talk:RobertG|talk]] 09:18, 10 January 2007 (UTC)}}}

* '''Delete''', overcategorisation. --[[User:RobertG|RobertG]] &#9836;♬ [[User talk:RobertG|talk]] 09:18, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' per above. [[User:Doczilla|Doczilla]] 09:47, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' as overcategorisation; it's an irrelevant intersection, probably useful only to anti-semites. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|BrownHairedGirl]] ^{[[User_talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])} 12:05, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Speedy Delete''' as re-created category deleted in CFD. - [[User:Darwinek|Darwinek]] 12:14, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' Either we categorize businesspeople by ethnicity, or we don't. We already removed them all, what would be unethical which is to put just one back, singling out one for special treatment. If we let one back, all the others will want to come back too. -- <i>[[User:ProveIt|Prove It]] ^{[[User talk:ProveIt|(talk)]]}</i> 14:16, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' per BrownHairedGirl [[User:DuncanHill|DuncanHill]] 13:45, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' per BrownHairedGirl. [[User:Xiner|Xiner]] ([[User talk:Xiner|talk]], [[Special:Emailuser/Xiner|email]]) 23:06, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' per <i>[[User:ProveIt|Prove It]]</i> --- [[User:Safemariner|Safemariner]] 02:52, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' per BrownHairedGirl.--[[User:67.161.13.243|67.161.13.243]] 08:05, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

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==== Category:Red pandas ====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 16:12, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

:{{lc|Red pandas}}<br/>

:{{lc|Famous red pandas}}<br/>

Line 50 ⟶ 634:

*'''Delete''' - We do not need a category for one species of [[mustelid]]. [[User:Dr. Submillimeter|Dr. Submillimeter]] 09:49, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' both per nom as overcategorization. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|BrownHairedGirl]] ^{[[User_talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])} 12:08, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Sad delete''', very much over the top, but it did teach me that a [[Firefox]] was the same thing, so that's something positive. [[User:Budgiekiller|Budgiekiller]] 18:58, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*''Delete'' per BrownHairedGirl despite the fact that red pandas are a favorite animal [[User:Kail Ceannai|Kail Ceannai]] 07:41, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete both''' Sad. [[User:Xiner|Xiner]] ([[User talk:Xiner|talk]], [[Special:Emailuser/Xiner|email]]) 23:07, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

*<s>'''Delete both'''</s> They can go into [[:Category:Pandas]]--well, apparently there isn't one. [[User:KP Botany|KP Botany]] 03:00, 12 January 2007 (UTC) Or [[:Category:Bears]] it seems. I didn't know they were bears, I thought they were more closely related to the raccoon or something. So, already there is a category. [[User:KP Botany|KP Botany]] 03:08, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

:There was debate for a time about the panda, but it's generally accepted now that it is a bear. The [[Red Panda]], despite its name, is not that closely related to the panda. Instead the red panda is something else that's not entirely defined by the sounds of it.--[[User:T. Anthony|T. Anthony]] 10:34, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

::The references on the red panda's classification are poor and need revision. It may not belong with mustelids, either. [[User:Dr. Submillimeter|Dr. Submillimeter]] 12:12, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

:::I'm forgetting my mammals biology, it seems. Yeah, I remember now that the red panda wasn't really considered to be that close to the panda, so I guess it needs classified at a higher order, and maybe that's why the categories were created to begin with. I'm at this point not really certain what to do, and realize I don't know enough about red panda biology to make an informed opinion on the matter--and taxonomy of obscure animals is rather complex. [[User:KP Botany|KP Botany]] 14:37, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

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====New Zealand ethnicity categories====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''rename'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 16:00, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

As per [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_December_22#Category:Indian-New_Zealanders.2C_Category:Samoan-New_Zealanders.2C_Category:Welsh-New_Zealanders|previous cfd]]. There are 24 categories for NZ ethnicity, and all but eight use an unhyphenated form. I'd like to bring the other eight into line:

*{{cl|American-New Zealanders}} &rarr;→ {{cl|American New Zealanders}}

*{{cl|Canadian-New Zealanders}} &rarr;→ {{cl|Canadian New Zealanders}}

*{{cl|English-New Zealanders}} &rarr;→ {{cl|English New Zealanders}}

*{{cl|German-New Zealanders}} &rarr;→ {{cl|German New Zealanders}}

*{{cl|Irish-New Zealanders}} &rarr;→ {{cl|Irish New Zealanders}}

*{{cl|Scottish-New Zealanders}} &rarr;→ {{cl|Scottish New Zealanders}}

*{{cl|South African-New Zealanders}} &rarr;→ {{cl|South African New Zealanders}}

*{{cl|Spanish-New Zealanders}} &rarr;→ {{cl|Spanish New Zealanders}}

[[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''[[User_talk:Grutness|<small><font colorstyle="color:#008822;">[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?]]</font></small>]]'' 03:25, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

* '''Rename''' for consistency, although I'm not in love with the basic category--when it's nationality as a modifier of nationality, I think it's likely to create confusion (a) as to which is the modifier and which is the modified nationality; (b) what are the criteria (parentage, citizenship, former citizenship). --[[User:Lquilter|lquilter]] 16:32, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*Sounds oxymoronic to me, actually. [[User_talk:Radiant!|<b><span style="color:#DD0000;">&gt;<span style="color:#FF6600;">R<span style="color:#FF9900;">a<span style="color:#FFCC00;">d<span style="color:#FFEE00;">i</span>a</span>n</span>t</span>&lt;</span></b>]] 16:38, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

* '''Merge all''' Unless there's a reason for this type of hybrid category. [[User:Xiner|Xiner]] ([[User talk:Xiner|talk]], [[Special:Emailuser/Xiner|email]]) 23:08, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

**'''Comment''' - merge to where? And are you also suggesting deleting or merging all the other hundreds, if not thousands, of categories on ethnic origin? There are 126 in {{cl|American people by ethnic or national origin}} alone. These categories may ''sound'' oxymoronic, but they're not - they are for New Zealanders, listed according to their ethnic origins. Thus, for example, [[Daniel Vettori]] is listed as an Italian New Zealander and [[Jonah Lomu]] as a Tongan New Zealander, in exactly the same way that [[Peter Arnett]] is listed as a New Zealand-American. The standard form for New Zealanders is without the hyphen. The standard form for some other nationalities such as the US is with one. My only point is that whichever is appropriate should be used consistently (such that all NZer categories are X New Zealanders, and all those for Americans are X-Americans). [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''[[User_talk:Grutness|<small style="color:#008822;">wha?</small>]]'' 23:42, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

:I agree fully with [[User:Grutness|Grutness]] to '''rename''' the categories but not with the merging. Merge to where is right. [[User:RIANZ|RIANZ]] 02:51, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

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====Category:Nobles of England====

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''merge'''. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 15:56, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

: '''Merge''' [[:Category:Nobles of England]] into [[:Category:Peers of the United Kingdom]].

: '''Merge''' [[:Category:Nobles of France]] into [[:Category:French nobility]]

: '''Merge''' [[:Category:Nobles]] into [[:Category:Nobility]]

* '''Merge''' and '''delete''' - Apparently this little category tree got created and not noticed. It's redundant of the much more established [[:Category:Nobility]] tree. --[[User:Lquilter|lquilter]] 02:14, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Merge''' the established categories reflect the differences between the English and French nobility, but these ones don't. [[User:Honbicot|Honbicot]] 19:01, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

* comment: I posted a note on the talk page for the person who started these categories but no response yet. --[[User:Lquilter|lquilter]] 13:58, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

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