Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals/Archive/March 2007: Difference between revisions

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===Fencing-bio-stub===

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I Propose {{cl|Fencing biography stubs}} and {{tl|Fencing-bio-stub}}. There are at least 60 articles. The only problem is there may not be enough non bio stubs for a stubs for a cat. [[User:Waacstats|Waacstats]] 22:48, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

*Support. It doesn't look like this will empty {{cl|fencing stubs}} to a disgraceful extent, given that it'll thereby have this as a subcat. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 02:14, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

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===Canadianfootball-bio-stub===

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I propose {{cl|Canadian football biography stubs}} and {{tl|Canadianfootball-bio-stub}}. Again there are at least 60 articles. Please note these are for people involved in the sport of [[Canadian football]] and not Canadians involved in the sport of football/soccer. I would appreciate some help with the naming of the category (and possibly template) to help distinguish this category from {{cl|Canadian soccer biography stubs}} and {{tl|Canada-footy-bio-stub}}. [[User:Waacstats|Waacstats]] 22:48, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

*Comment - we use the slightly nonintuitive {{tl|Amfoot-bio-stub}} as a child of {{tl|Americanfootball-stub}} - a similar name of Cafoot-bio-stub would make some sort of sense (not that i really like it or the American football equivalent). As to the category...? [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''<small><font color="#008822">[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?]]</font></small>'' 23:10, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

:* that idea made melook at other stub templates, what about {{Tl|cfl-bio-stub}} analogous to {{tl|afl-bio-stub}} for australian rules football. [[User:Waacstats|Waacstats]] 23:48, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

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=== 4 foo-sport-bio-stub===

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A number of countries with large (but not yet very large) bio categories could easily take a sport-bio-stub so I propose

*{{cl|Spanish sportspeople stubs}} / {{tl|Spain-sport-bio-stub}}

*{{cl|Polish sportspeople stubs}} / {{tl|Poland-sport-bio-stub}}

*{{cl|Norwegian sportspeople stubs}} / {{tl|Norway-sport-bio-stub}}

*{{cl|Swedish sportspeople stubs}} / {{tl|Sweden-sport-bio-stub}}

although I hav not done a full count I am sure all will pass 60 stubs and also be new parents to between 2 and 3 sub categories as well. [[User:Waacstats|Waacstats]] 22:48, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

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=== {{tl|house-band-stub}} / {{cl|House music group stubs}} ===

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According to StubSense there is 104 potential stubs, according to CatScan from {{tl|band-stub}} there is 95 possible candidates. I suggest upmerged template first to see if there is "too many" false positives, if there isn't, then category too. [[User:Monni1995|Monni]] 19:23, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

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=== {{tl|house-musician-stub}} / {{cl|House musician stubs}} ===

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CatScan says there is 37 potentials tagged with {{tl|electronic-musician-stub}} in {{cl|House musicians}}. StubSense says there is 260 potential stubs starting from {{cl|House musicians}}. I think truth is somewhere in between. I suggest upmerged template first and optionally category after proper count gives over 60 stub articles. Some articles would be double-tagged with national electronic-musician-stub, but I think that isn't something bad. [[User:Monni1995|Monni]] 13:41, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

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==={{tl|pune-geo-stub}}===

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Hi, I am proposing this new stub regarding city of pune. There are many article marked with this stub. This stub was already created by me. Though I was not aware of this standard procedure of proposing and then creating. Have a look at [[:Category: Pune city stubs]] which shows that there are enough article to support creation of this stub. Please decide on soon as this stub is already marked for deletion. :(

Following are standard guidelines for proposing a new stub, lets see if this stub meets criteria

* Is there a stub for this topic already? Check [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub types]].

'''Checked! No such stub exists'''

* Will the new type be well-defined enough to help editors identify articles that they have the expertise to expand? Remember that using stubs categories is a way to facilitate article expansion

'''Definately helpful, there are many new articles regarding pune that are marked with this stub'''

* Does the new stub type cover ground not covered by other type, or create a well-defined subtype that does?

'''Some (not all) [[pune]] related article are marked in {{tl|maharashtra-geo-stub}}, but those are lost in long list that this stub has. Having a more specific stub makes sense'''

* Will there be a significant number of stubs in this category; are there enough article stubs to warrant this new type?

'''Right now I am able to find some 65 articles and are marked with this stub, and can definately grow if other volunteers jump in'''

* Would your new stub type overlap with other stub types?

'''Possible, but overlapping is among different categories, For eg; [[Sawai Gandharva Music Festival]] is a very well known music festival of pune. It is stubed in both {{cl|Music festival stubs}} and this stub.'''

*If you are breaking a subcategory out of a pre-existing category, will the new stub reduce the size of the parent category by a significant amount?

'''I don't believe so'''

Now please decide quickly, I don't want this stub to get deleted before any decision is reached. And sorry for not proposing it here.

[[User:Mayur.thakare|spacejuncky]] 04:48, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

:This stub type has been nominated for deletion at WP:SFD already - as such proposing to create something already created seems a little strange. What you created as a geography stub is not being used as such - it is being used as a generic stub for the cuity, and as such should not be called Pune-''geo''-stub. Similarly there is no reason for the word "city" in he title of the stub category. these are the reasons I suggested renaming at WP:SFD.

:To answer your specific comments:

:* Is there a stub for this topic already?

:**Yes - Maharashtra-geo-stub.

:* Will the new type be well-defined enough to help editors identify articles that they have the expertise to expand? Remember that using stubs categories is a way to facilitate article expansion

:**"Definitely helpful" is not an answer to "Is it well defined". The answer is "no" - it is defined as a geo-stub but clearly not being used as such.

:* Does the new stub type cover ground not covered by other type, or create a well-defined subtype that does?

:Geography items related to Pune are covered by Maharashtra-geo-stub. other articles are definted according to what they are - Indian-organisations, universities, people, etc.

:* Will there be a significant number of stubs in this category; are there enough article stubs to warrant this new type?

:**No. There would not be if it was used according to the definition of what this stub is. There are only about 20 Pune geography articles in the category. the others have no relevance to geography whatsoever.

:* Would your new stub type overlap with other stub types?

:**Definitely. It cuts through the geographical/organisational/biographical/educational hierarchy, and tries to pass all of these off as "geographical".

:*If you are breaking a subcategory out of a pre-existing category, will the new stub reduce the size of the parent category by a significant amount?

:**I agree with your answer, '''I don't believe so'''. For a new stub category, the answr should be "Yes".

:I repeat what I said at SFD - a Pune-stub might be quite useful, but it is clear that you do not want a Pune-geo-stub, since very few of these articles are about locations. As such, they should be double-stubbed with a Pune-stub (if such is warranted) and with whatever Indian or Maharashtran specific stub typ[e is also correct. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''<small><font color="#008822">[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?]]</font></small>'' 00:50, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

: I am not really getting what you guys are arguing about. What I see the reason behind what I feel confusing comments from you all is the fact the name is Pune-'''GEO'''-Stub. I screwed with the name, it is very misleading and I am sorry for that. When I created this stub there was no intention of creating stub for Pune geography or Pune division/district geography. My only intention was to have all pune '''city''' related article stubbed so that more volunteers chip in to expand those article. When stubbed any enthusiastic wikipedian can find that all pune '''city''' related articles at one place. This is what I want to convey, now whatever you decide its your decision. I am not keen in helping in creating stubs for all six division of Maharashtra as suggested, because frankly I am not able to see it. Plus I will be on short vacation so wont be logging in for next 7-10 days. :)

[[User:Mayur.thakare|spacejuncky]] 04:07, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

:Okay. To cut a long story as short as I can and to combine comments from here and SFD, part of the problem is with the geo-stub, yes, and Maharashtra-geo-stub does need splitting. When it is split (which will probably be very soon) it will almost certainly be split by district. As to a non-geo type for Pune, the main problem is the name of the city and the district are the same. To call it Pune-stub would therefore be confusing, as would calling it Pune-city-stub (which by stub naming would indicate a stub for articles on cities in Pune District). {{tl|PuneCity-stub}} would get round that, and would be used double-stubbed (i.e., articles would receive that and another stub template - for example a stub on a university in Pune would receive both Pune-stub and India-university-stub). The main question that remains is whether a separate PuneCity-stub would have enough stubs if a Pune-geo-stub was used for all articles on geography in Pune District, since it is usual in those cases not to double-stub an article with the city stub (places in New York City, for instance, get NewYork-geo-stub - NY State's geostub - but not NYC-stub). [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''<small><font color="#008822">[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?]]</font></small>'' 08:24, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

::District or division? The existing subtype of Maharashtra-geo-stub is Konkan-geo-stub, for the [[Konkan Division]]. Of course with Pune, we have the complication that Pune is the name of a [[Pune|city]], a [[Pune District|district]] and a [[Pune Division|division]], altho thankfully not of a taluka. <span style="font-family:cursive">[[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]]</span> [[User_talk:Caerwine|<small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred">Caer’s whines</small>]] 23:17, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

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===Calvinism stub===

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We at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Calvinism]] would like a stub template for our stub articles. You can find a list of our current stub articles at [[:Category:Stub-Class Calvinism articles]]. While I'm not sure that 100% of these all qualify strictly as stubs. I'm sure it's more than the 30 required for a WikiProject stub template, and nearly certain that more than 80 of the 122 stubs would be classified as a stub by anyone.

The proposal would be to use the name [[Template:stub-calvinism]], and continue using the current category.

-- [[User:TimNelson|TimNelson]] 02:59, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

*The current category, as in {{cl|Stub-Class Calvinism articles}}? But that's a talk-page, WP1.0 assessment style cat, and which there's already a means of populating. If you want a stub type per se, it'd by convention be at {{tl|Calvinism-stub}} / {{cl|Calvinism stubs}}. I may be confused about what you mean here... [[User:Alai|Alai]] 03:21, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

*Given that we have nearly 2000 stub types, all in the form X-stub, I doubt you'll get much support for calling this one stub-X. Also, there is a specific difference between the wikiproject specific article class system and general stub categories, so using the current category wouldn't make sense. If there are a reasonable number of artices, then a {{tl|Calvinism-stub}} and {{cl|Calvinism stubs}} would be reasonable, though I wonder exactly why you want that given that you're already using a WP class-grading system. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''<small><font color="#008822">[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?]]</font></small>'' 03:23, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

* '''Modified proposal''': I propose instead that we name it as suggested by [[User:Alai]] and [[User:Grutness]]. Their overwhelming arguments convinced me!

: -- [[User:TimNelson|TimNelson]] 03:47, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

::Sounds sensible. We also have {{tl|Lutheran-stub}} (which is possibly not the world's best name). '''Support''' modified proposal. [[User:Valentinian|Valentinian]] ^{[[User_talk:Valentinian|T]] / [[Special:Contributions/Valentinian|C]]} 23:11, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

*'''Support modified proposal'''. Plenty of stubs to include. I almost proposed this one a few weeks ago. [[User:Blarneytherinosaur|Blarneytherinosaur]] [[User_talk:Blarneytherinosaur|talk]] 03:58, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

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===Surprisingly Absent Basketball Terminology===

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The term "airball" is definitely basketball jargon and (through empirical tests of my girlfriend) anyone who is unfamiliar with the game will surely have little idea of what the term really means. This is why I propose a stub for this term, as it has also been sighted in many articles:

Jason McElwain,

Traveling (basketball),

Jim Valvano,

1983 NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Tournament,

Raja Bell-Kobe Bryant Rivalry,

21 (basketball)

In the article: '''Variations of basketball''' it is only given a bracketed definition, however, because it is used in all these other articles I think it is worth having.

:Note that this page is for proposing stub templates and categories: if you just want to create a stub article, just edit [[airball (basketball)]], if if your account is too newly-created, ask at [[WP:AFC]]. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 04:48, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

::Agreed, altho unless the article is going to include information about the origin or other history of the term, a link to the Wiktionary entry would be better. <code><nowiki>[[wikt:airball]]</nowiki></code> will produce a link to the Wiktionary entry on [[wikt:airball|airball]]. <span style="font-family:cursive">[[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]]</span> [[User_talk:Caerwine|<small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred">Caer’s whines</small>]] 05:03, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

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===[[:Category:European football biography stubs]] split===

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Categories for those nation already have Template

*[[Template:Iceland-footy-bio-stub]] and [[:Category:Icelandic football biography stubs]] (56 stubs)

*[[Template:Slovenia-footy-bio-stub]] and [[:Category:Slovenian football biography stubs]] (60 stubs)

*[[Template:Macedonia-footy-bio-stub]] and [[:Category:Macedonian football biography stubs]] (60 stubs)

But there is a big problems, the total numbers of these nation's players article, almost all were stub, it look stupid to cat all article in the nation to stub cat. [[User:Matthew_hk|<span style="color:yellow; background-color:black;">Matthew_hk</span>]] [[User talk:Matthew_hk|''<font color="Blue">t</font>'']][[Special:Contributions/Matthew_hk|''<font color="red">c</font>'']] 04:39, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

And unmerged Template for

*{{lt|Georgia-footy-bio-stub}}

*{{lt|Montenegro-footy-bio-stub}}

[[User:Matthew_hk|<span style="color:yellow; background-color:black;">Matthew_hk</span>]] [[User talk:Matthew_hk|''<font color="Blue">t</font>'']][[Special:Contributions/Matthew_hk|''<font color="red">c</font>'']] 04:59, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

*'''Support''' categories are close enough and templates seem viable size wise. [[User:Waacstats|Waacstats]] 07:42, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

*'''Support''' - I have gone ahead and started making cats. [[User:Poulsen|Poulsen]] 06:21, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

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===[[:Category:Italian football biography stubs|Italian]], [[:Category:French football biography stubs|French football biography stubs]], split===

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Just like the [[:Category:English football biography stubs|English one]], split into player's position. [[User:Matthew_hk|<span style="color:yellow; background-color:black;">Matthew_hk</span>]] [[User talk:Matthew_hk|''<font color="Blue">t</font>'']][[Special:Contributions/Matthew_hk|''<font color="red">c</font>'']] 04:39, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

*Makes sense. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 04:58, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

**'''Support''' . [[User:Waacstats|Waacstats]] 07:44, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

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===European politicians===

Eventhough the toolserver database only contains obsolete data, it still has its uses. I suggest the following templates (categories if / when we find 60 articles):

*{{tl|Ukraine-politician-stub}} Stub Sense reports 49 articles (out of 330 articles. The category now holds 390 articles).[http://tools.wikimedia.de/~interiot/cgi-bin/queries/stub_sense?category=Ukrainian+people+stubs&num_pages=4000&dbname=enwiki]

*{{tl|Luxembourg-politician-stub}} Stub Sense reports two figures: 47 [http://tools.wikimedia.de/~interiot/cgi-bin/queries/stub_sense?category=Luxembourgish+people+stubs&num_pages=4000&dbname=enwiki] and 54.[http://tools.wikimedia.de/~interiot/cgi-bin/queries/stub_sense?category=European+politician+stubs&num_pages=4000&dbname=enwiki] Iff we get a category, I'd like to hear some native speakers of English commenting on the category name. We have {{cl|Luxembourgian politicians}} but {{cl|Luxembourgish people}}. I presume this means that the correct name will be {{cl|Luxembourgian politician stubs}} if / when we find 60 stubs?

*{{tl|Lithuania-politician-stub}} Stub Sense gives 53 [http://tools.wikimedia.de/~interiot/cgi-bin/queries/stub_sense?category=European+politician+stubs&num_pages=4000&dbname=enwiki] which is probably a little too high. Anyway, enough for an upmerged template.

*{{tl|Iceland-politician-stub}} 40+, upmerged template

*{{tl|Croatia-politician-stub}} 40+, upmerged template

*{{tl|Serbia-politician-stub}} 40+, upmerged template

[[User:Valentinian|Valentinian]] ^{[[User_talk:Valentinian|T]] / [[Special:Contributions/Valentinian|C]]} 01:04, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

:Wiktionary suggests that Luxembourgian is the noun, Luxembourgish is the adjective. Thus bio-stubs relating to Luxembourgians should be in Cat: Luxembourgish people stubs. The politicians permcat is thus incorrectly named and should probably go to CFD. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''<small><font color="#008822">[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?]]</font></small>'' 01:28, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

::Based on both [[List of adjectival forms of place names]] and the style guide I use, the GPO style guide, Luxembourger is the noun, and Luxembourg is the adjective form to be used. Firefox's spell checker doesn't complain about Luxembourgian (or Luxembourger), but it does not like Luxembourgish at all. [[Luxembourgian]] appears to refer to the language not the people. My 1962 copy of Webster's New International Dictionary, Second Edition, doesn't give any adjectival forms at all which suggests that the word hasn't been in the English language long enough to obtain a definitive adjective form. Still, given that we have several sources that concur that using ''Luxembourg people'' and ''Luxembourg politicians'' is correct usage (not necessarily the only correct usage, but at least a correct usage) why don't we go with {{cl|Luxembourg politician stub}}? <span style="font-family:cursive">[[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]]</span> [[User_talk:Caerwine|<small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred">Caer’s whines</small>]] 09:14, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

:::I'd prefer a name as consistent with the others as possible but if the permcat goes to CFD, a lot of other categories need to go the same way (see subcats of {{cl|Luxembourgish people}}, most importantly {{cl|Luxembourgian people by occupation}}) [[User:Valentinian|Valentinian]] ^{[[User_talk:Valentinian|T]] / [[Special:Contributions/Valentinian|C]]} 13:42, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Because of this discussion I've done a mass CFD nomination at [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_March_25#Luxembourgian_people]] suggesting a standardization on ''Luxembourgian''. <span style="font-family:cursive">[[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]]</span> [[User_talk:Caerwine|<small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred">Caer’s whines</small>]] 19:41, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

:I've been bold and given Lithuania a proper category anyway; I found almost 70 articles. [[User:Valentinian|Valentinian]] ^{[[User_talk:Valentinian|T]] / [[Special:Contributions/Valentinian|C]]} 19:36, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

===Split of {{tl|Wintersport-bio-stub}}===

{{tl|wintersport-bio-stub}} is over 650 articles, 2 sports and three nationalities having there own categories, according to stubsense the following would be possible (remember numbers may be inflated as I haven't done a hand count)

*{{cl|Ski jumping biography stubs}} / {{tl|Skijump-bio-stub}} (207 articles)

:*{{tl|Norway-skijump-bio-stub}} (45 articles) (upmerged included in above total)

*{{cl|Cross country skiing biography stubs}} / {{tl|XC-skiing-bio-stub}} (229 articles excluding below)

:*{{cl|Swedish cross country skiing biography stubs}} / {{tl|Sweden-XC-skiing-bio-stub}} (78 articles)

:*{{cl|Finnish cross country skiing biography stubs}} / {{tl|Finland-XC-skiing-bio-stub}} (75 articles)

:*{{cl|Norwegian cross country skiing biography stubs}} / {{tl|Norway-XC-skiing-bio-stub}} (76 articles)

:*{{cl|Russian cross country skiing biography stubs}} / {{tl|Russia-XC-skiing-bio-stub}} (70 articles)

*{{cl|Alpine skiing biography stubs}} / {{tl|Alpine-skiing-bio-stub}} (194 articles).

[[User:Waacstats|Waacstats]] 17:55, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

*Seems like a good plan to me. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 18:15, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

*I can't say I'm happy about about using an abbreviation, albeit one that is well determined as long as skiing is being mentioned. How about {{cl|Nordic skiing biography stubs}} / {{tl|Nordic-skiing-bio}} et al. instead of the XC entries? At the least, we could use it as a parent anyway for those who compete in the Nordic combined so as to as avoid double stubbing. Also, shouldn't that be {{tl|skijumping-bio-stub}}? After all, we don't have a {{tl|ski-bio-stub}}. Finally, we ought to consider {{tl|biathlete-stub}} (65 entries) and either {{tl|shootingsport-bio-stub}} (123 entries, not counting the biathletes) or {{tl|shootingsport-stub}} (25 non-bio entries plus the athletes) to serve as a second parent for the biathlete stubs short of {{cl|Firearms stubs}}. (All numbers courtesy of Stub Sense). <span style="font-family:cursive">[[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]]</span> [[User_talk:Caerwine|<small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred">Caer’s whines</small>]] 23:13, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

:* I agree that it probably should be skiijumping and not skijump, I also have no problem with using crosscountry as opposed to XC it's just that when you have a nation split the template becomes very large but then that not a big problem. Using nordic skiing instead of XC would not be a good idea because nordic skiing also encompases ski jumping, biathlon, nordic combined but as a parent for these cats I think would be useful

I back a proposal for biathlon but suggest {{tl|biathlon-bio-stub}} in case there are any people who are known for there involvement in biathlon without necessarily being biathletes (coaches, organisers, announcers etc). I also back {{Cl|Sports shooters biography stubs}} but should the template be at {{shootingsports-bio-stub}} (the events are categorised under shooting sports) or {{tl|sportshooting-bio-stub}} (the people involved are categorised under sport shooters). [[User:Waacstats|Waacstats]] 11:22, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

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===Syria sports===

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First I apologize, I didn't know about this proposal system being in place, so I had actually created the stub template ( {{[[:Template:Syria-sports-stub]]}}) and category... If they should be deleted before this proposal is accepted, someone can do that or tell me. Some articles that could use this proposed stub: [[Abbasiyyin Stadium]], [[Al Majd]], [[Al Taliya]], [[Al-Assad Stadium]], [[Al-Futowa]], [[Al-Hamadaniah Stadium]], [[Al-Horriya]], [[Al-Ittihad (Aleppo)]], [[Al-Jaish (Syria)]], [[Al-Karamah]], [[Al-Wahda (Damascus)]], [[Al-Wathba]], [[Hutteen (Latakia)]], [[Jablah (football club)]], [[Khaled bin Walid Stadium]], [[Syria at the 1948 Summer Olympics]], [[Syria at the 1968 Summer Olympics]], ....., [[Syria at the 2000 Summer Olympics]],[[Firas Al Khatib]], [[Tarek Jabban]], [[Teshrin]], [[Aatef Jenyat]], [[Adnan Al Hafez]], [[Jamal Al Sharif]], [[Anas Al Khouja]], [[Firas Issmael]], [[Jehad Al Hussein]], [[Mosab Balhous]], [[Mustafa Hamsho]], [[Naser Al Shami]], [[Zyad Chaabo]], [[Ghada Shouaa]], [[Joseph Atiyeh]], [[Al-Fayhaa Stadium]].

*Fairly sensibly scoped, but is it big enough for a separate category? (i.e., at least 60 existing stubs) If not, I suggest the template be kept, upmerged. (Though -sport-bio- and sport-venue- templates might be more useful for that purpose.) [[User:Alai|Alai]] 02:43, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

**Hi, I added some more, bringing the total above 30 articles. I should have mentioned that all these articles are part of WikiProject Syria (The requirement mentions 30 or more if associated with a WikiProject). Also, I am not opposed to having sport-bio and/or sport-venue templates. [[User:Asabbagh|Asabbagh]] 03:09, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

***The scope of WPJ Syria is Syria (unless I've very much mistaken), and there's already a {{tl|Syria-stub}}, so the "30 clause" doesn't apply here (otherwise, I'd apply everywhere). So, I'd suggest upmerging, as above. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 05:01, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

*I believe the category is likely to be populated with 60 and more stubs in time. There are still hundreds of uncreated Syrian sport biography articles which are when created, most probably going to be stubs. That is if there aren't already 60 or more uncategorized articles out there. By the way, I've moved the stub template to the correct page - {{tl|Syria-sport-stub}}. - [[User:Anas Salloum|<font color="Black">'''''A''n</font><font color="Grey">as'''</font>]] ^{[[User talk:Anas Salloum|<font size="-4">talk'''?'''</font>]]} 08:39, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

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==={{tl|organist-stub}}===

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*A stub for all the organists that are currently in {{tl|keyboardist-stub}}. A quick look on the Wikiproject [[WP:PipeOrgan|PipeOrgan]] '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject PipeOrgan/Article List#Organists|here]]''' will show the current list of organists, marked with '''stub''' as appropriate (there are still about 50 organists still to add to this list which may/not be stub class. Current estimate is around 85-100 articles. &ndash;[[User:Mdcollins1984|MDCollins]] (''[[User talk:Mdcollins1984|talk]]'') 00:40, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

*:I think this is a good idea. [[User:Computerjoe|Computerjoe]][[User talk:Computerjoe|<span style="color:red">'s talk</span>]] 23:02, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

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===2000s singles subtypes===

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Now over 800, these look pretty safe bets:

*{{cl|2000s rock single stubs}}

*{{cl|2000s pop single stubs}}

I won't try to give counts; not only is the data I have now about six weeks old, there's also much undercatting (the musicistas don't seem to be much into genre cats, so instead these languish until they get a "by artist" cat (which is then genre-ised in turn), which can take some time... [[User:Alai|Alai]] 05:29, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

:Support.[[User:Goldenrowley|Goldenrowley]] 15:25, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

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===baseball pitcher subcats===

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*{{cl|1960s baseball pitcher stubs}}

*{{cl|1970s baseball pitcher stubs}}

To un-upmerge the templates {{tl|1960s-baseball-pitcher-stub}} and {{tl|1970s-baseball-pitcher-stub}}, which seem to be well-populated now. But, without the WPJ messages, please! [[User:Alai|Alai]] 21:07, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

: '''Oppose''' changing template body, need wider consensus of removing mention of WPJ from all similar templates. '''Support''' de-upmerging alone. [[User:Monni1995|Monni]] 22:10, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

::Well, I wasn't actually convassing opinion on that, just complaining in passing. It's been discussed before, and I'm fairly sure the consensus was to get rid of them. (I've been getting rid of them as I come across them, personally.) Come to that, it's rather implied by [[WP:STUB]] and [[WP:ASR]]. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 23:45, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

:::'''Support''' but are the un-upmerged categories going to be a subcat of {{cl|Pre-1980 baseball pitcher stubs}} or moved out to {{cl|Baseball pitcher stubs}} and the first category renamed {{cl|Pre-1960 baseball pitcher stubs}} (my preferrred option)

::::That latter would make more sense to me. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 19:23, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

:: '''comment''' Reading [[WP:ASR]] or [[WP:STUB]] doesn't convince me that WPJ specific additions to stub notices are discouraged. [[WP:ASR]] says it doesn't apply to stub notices and [[WP:STUB]] contradicts itself on stub layout guidelines. Only thing sure is that every stub creator is allowed (by first exception in [[WP:STUB]]) to use common sense when applying formatting to the stub template layout. [[User:Monni1995|Monni]] 16:20, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

:::If you're telling me it's a "sure thing" that "avoiding self-references" means "add as many as you like", and that some alleged inconsistency in [[WP:STUB]] means that the whole thing is null and void, I can only assume you're taking advantage of "the day that's in it". [[User:Alai|Alai]] 22:58, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

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=== {{tl|electronic-band-stub}} / {{cl|Electronic musical group stubs}} + {{tl|Germany-electronic-band-stub}} ===

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About 150 stubs (~600 stubs including children) according to StubSense, with 2 existing child stubs. Category name sounds weird, but that's what the child stubs already use. With my usual self-oppose I suggest upmerged template for Germany (about 40 stubs) just to make sure I can speedy it later if it gets the remaining stubs. If I would care about speedy proposals (usually I just create them out-of-procedure), I would use it in this case. [[User:Monni1995|Monni]] 16:03, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

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===Juggling===

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I'd like to propose a category of juggling related stubs. Articles that could be tagged with it include [[Jason Garfield]], [[World Juggling Federation]], [[Thomas Dietz]], [[Anthony Gatto]], [[Luke Burrage]], [[Ben Beever]], [[Albert Lucas]], [[Flash (juggling)]], [[Chops (juggling)]], [[Columns (juggling)]], [[Box (juggling)]], [[Reverse cascade]]. It would be especially nice to see this category as there is currently a controversy as to whether juggling is more entertainment or sport (or recreation etc), while all stubs could be neatly sorted into one juggling category. —[[user:Kncyu38|KNcyu38]] ([[user talk:Kncyu38|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kncyu38|contribs]]) 04:27, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

:Certainly sensibly scoped, but I'd wonder if there's enough existing stubs for a {{cl|juggling stubs}}. I'd certainly have no objection to an upmerged {{tl|juggling-stub}} template... but per your comment, I'm not sure where I'd suggest upmerging it to! (BTW, is there a wikiproject?) [[User:Alai|Alai]] 05:04, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

::Personally, I'd upmerge it into sports stubs. There's no wikiproject as yet. —[[user:Kncyu38|KNcyu38]] ([[user talk:Kncyu38|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kncyu38|contribs]]) 08:05, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

:::Based on the current permcat parentage, I'd say it belongs under {{cl|Culture stubs}}. Despite ESPN's efforts to turn everything into a competitive sport, juggling is more popularly considered to be entertainment or recreation than sport. However, if there are enough stubs to warrant a separate stub category, I wouldn't oppose adding {{cl|Sports stubs}} as a second parent of {{cl|Juggling stubs}}. <span style="font-family:cursive">[[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]]</span> [[User_talk:Caerwine|<small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred">Caer’s whines</small>]] 20:46, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

:ISTR we at one time had a circus-skills-stub or similar, which at the time was deleted as not having enough stubs. perhaps it would be useful to reinstate it for juggling, acrobatics, and other similar performing arts? [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''<small><font color="#008822">[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?]]</font></small>'' 23:52, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

::Just in case you're asking me: I'd be fine with any stub template that contains the word juggling, really. —[[user:Kncyu38|KNcyu38]] ([[user talk:Kncyu38|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kncyu38|contribs]]) 05:49, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

:::[http://tools.wikimedia.de/~interiot/cgi-bin/queries/stub_sense?category=circus+skills&num_pages=300&dbname=enwiki According to stubsense], that would seem to just about be viable (as an upmerger target for the juggling stub template or otherwise). [[User:Alai|Alai]] 06:04, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

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===Split of Egyptian people stubs===

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Templates and categories for: {{tl|Egypt-politician-stub}}, {{tl|Egypt-writer-stub}} (Haven't done a precise hand count, but definitely have enough).

Just templates for: {{tl|Egypt-footy-bio-stub}} and {{tl|Egypt-mil-bio-stub}} (same as above but definitely do not have enough yet to justify a category)--[[User:Thomas.macmillan|Thomas.macmillan]] 18:29, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

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===Backpacking-stub===

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I would like to propose a generall stub type backpacking-stub for use with [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Backpacking|WikiProject Backpacking]] that will hold and allow us to sort and categorize all stub-class articles in WP Backpacking. There are hundreds of stub articles that fit into this category, including:

* [[Mountain Safety Research]]

* [[Coleman Company]]

* [[CamelBak]]

* [[Clean climbing]]

* [[100-Mile Wilderness]]

* [[Springer Mountain]]

* [[Mount Oglethorpe]]

* and most articles in [[:Category:Trail stubs]]

*The main problem as I see it is that either this or trail stubs is viable, having both seems a bit counterproductive - as you say, most of one would be in the other. Perhaps widening the scope of trail-stub to cover both trail walking and backpacking would be a better option than a completely new stub type? [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''<small><font color="#008822">[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?]]</font></small>'' 00:07, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

*I agree that the cross-cutting across {{tl|trail-stub}}, {{tl|climbing-stub}}, and {{tl|leisure-company-stub}} is a problem. That last, at just over 200 stubs is not in need of a split sizewise, but I could support an {{tl|recreation-company-stub}} to make the companies there more likely to be relevant to WikiProject Backpacking. <span style="font-family:cursive">[[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]]</span> [[User_talk:Caerwine|<small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred">Caer’s whines</small>]] 00:49, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

:'''Suggest''' the use of {{tl|hiking-stub}} as more comprehensive to both wilderness trails and backpacking. Leisure company is more like travel and leisure. Hiking and backpacking are more like sports. [[User:Goldenrowley|Goldenrowley]] 03:17, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Combining the suggestions above, I'd like to make the following amended proposal:

#create {{tl|hiking-stub}} and {cl|Hiking stubs}}

#upmerge {{tl|trail-stub}} into that and delete {{cl|Trail stubs}} - at least for the time being.

That way, we don't have a nearly empty Hiking stubs category. if it looks like there are sufficient stubs on hiking that aren't about trails, per se, then we can always re-create that stub's own category later. The backpacking WikiProject would then have three different stub types and two categories (the other being the {{tl|climbing-stub}}/{{cl|climbing stubs}} combo) to look for articles in. We can also have a look at splitting leisure-comany-stub at a later date, if it grows some. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''<small><font color="#008822">[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?]]</font></small>'' 04:54, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

:Yes, I agree with you all. I was hoping to create a backpacking stub that could cover all sorts of relavent articles without the need for lots of different tags. This would provide an easy way for users to access many types of backpacking/hiking related stub data and really help the project out. If this remains the generall view, I will create it and perform the merger after the designated time (unless someone with more knowledge that will do a better job would like to do it). [[User:Leif902|Leif902]] 22:20, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

::'''Support''' both hiking stub and category. [[User:Goldenrowley|Goldenrowley]] 03:29, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

:::As there seems to be support, I have gone ahead and created {{[[Template:hiking-stub|hiking-stub]]}} and [[:Category:Hiking Stubs]]. If you want me to do more, ex. upmerge trail-stub, etc. you can contact me on my talk page as I probably won't check back here and am no longer watching the page. Please help improve it if you can. - [[User:Leif902|Leif902]] 02:33, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

P.S. Sorry if I violated a time limit, I wasn't sure if there was one (is there one?).

I've moved this to {{cl|hiking stubs}}, per usual naming conventions, and adjusted the categorisation somewhat. Time is supposed to be five days, but if this is populable to 60 (or perhaps even 30, given the WPJ), I don't see any problems. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 04:06, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

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==={{cl|The Gambia geography stubs}}===

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And another country reaches the 60+ mark - 74 stubs, in fact. This one has had a template for a while, and can now be de-upmerged. And yes, since the name of the country is officially ''The'' Gambia... [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''<small><font color="#008822">[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?]]</font></small>'' 07:09, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

*'''Support''' of course. Just wait until you see the number of geo-stub splits that I can propose in a week woo hoo![[User:Aelfthrytha|Aelfthrytha]] 12:59, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

*'''Strong support for speedying''' I don't see a reason to wait for a category in this situation.--[[User:Thomas.macmillan|Thomas.macmillan]] 18:21, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

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===Pinball stub===

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There's more than [[:Category:Pinball games|100 good stub articles]] between titles, manufacturers, individuals and other related articles. However the stub types currently associated with these articles are various uncoordinated types of video game categorizations. Pinball really is its own separate beast, and there is already a [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Pinball|WikiProject Pinball]] that is growing slowly but steadily. Propose a pinball-stub category. Any objections? [[User:Fractalchez|Fractalchez]] 21:40, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

:Actually that's 100 articles, both stub and non-stub in that category. StubSense reports [http://tools.wikimedia.de/~interiot/cgi-bin/queries/stub_sense?category=Pinball+games&num_pages=4000&dbname=enwiki 43 pinball-related stubs] of which [http://tools.wikimedia.de/~interiot/cgi-bin/queries/stub_sense?category=Pinball+computer+games&num_pages=4000&dbname=enwiki 16 stubs] are for pinball computer/video games. In theory, everything pinball related should already have {{tl|arcade-stub}}, since pinball games is a subset of arcade games. I'll admit that it would be nice to have a clearer separation between video arcade games and (electro-)mechanical arcade games, but given the relative numbers of articles and stubs, I think it might be more useful to create {{tl|arcade-videogame-stub}} as part of a splitting off of the video arcade games so as to avoid having pinball and other gaming machines with mechanical action (such as coin-op pool tables) fall unintentionally into the video game hierarchy. <span style="font-family:cursive">[[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]]</span> [[User_talk:Caerwine|<small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred">Caer’s whines</small>]] 22:33, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

::Looking at it, that seems just fine. My main concern was just getting some semblence of standarization, since pinball machines are one of those things that don't fit all that well into other categories. But "arcade" covers it well. I may want to revisit this if/when the pinball pages actually grow to require it, but this well satisfies my current concerns. Much thanks. [[User:Fractalchez|Fractalchez]] 20:36, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

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===Illinois-geo sub-types===

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*{{cl|Chicago geography stubs}}

*{{cl|Chicagoland geography stubs}}

*{{cl|Rockford-Freeport-Rochelle geography stubs}}

*{{cl|Peoria-Canton geography stubs}}

*{{cl|Greater St. Louis (Illinois) geography stubs}}

Parent is now oversized (Midwest states must be in season, or something), and these are growing too far to give sensible counts, but I'm pretty sure about the first three, at least. On double-stubbing alone the Chicago types is viable. The other four all all based on [[combined statistical area]]s, truncating as necessary to state boundaries (fairly drastically in the case of St. Louis, obviously. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 21:00, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

:That last one might be better named {{cl|Metro-East geography stubs}} since apparently [[Metro-East]] is the local name for that area, variously with and without the hyphen, tho the wiki article uses it. <span style="font-family:cursive">[[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]]</span> [[User_talk:Caerwine|<small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred">Caer’s whines</small>]] 22:46, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

::Excellent idea. It seems a bit variable as regards county membership, as well as hyphenation, but nothing a little explicit scoping statement won't prolong^Wcure. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 01:23, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

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===Bangladesh history stub===