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:::The fish story doesn't make sense. Your assertations don't make sense either: ''many people prefer stateless, voluntary capitalism'' --since when? --[[User:Albamuth|albamuth]] 23:14, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
::::The fish story makes sense. Traditional anicthists consider whales to be a kind of fish, or at least as bad as one. Anictho-whalists, based on science, do not. Traditional anarchists consider wage labor, interest, and profit to be a kind of exploitation or rulership, or at least as bad as one. Anarcho-capitalists, based on economics, do not. [[User:24.243.188.29|24.243.188.29]] 02:50, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
:I love when people try to rearrange their arguments as a deductive chain. They think they're making their case stronger by showing how it follows of logical necessity, but in reality they're showing how minor flaws in one step destroy their case utterly. I don't find such logic-chopping productive. So let's begin. In 2) you shift from supporting maximal liberty to supporting liberty for all. If they're the same thing, 2) is a non-sequitur because maximal liberty could obtain, for example, when A has 2 liberty and B has 3 liberty. Perhaps you mean maximal *equal* liberty. While we're not looking, you in fact do shift to this in 3). 4) is true, but it unfortunately also holds for the economic policies of anti-capitalism. Seizing the product of my labor to level out a potential hierarchy is itself a hierarchy. (Traditional anarchists like to get around this by claiming that, no, they're just taking direct action to maintain a state of anarchy, but who do they think they're fooling?) 5) is true - sometimes. Sometimes states enforce private property rights. Usually they violate them and more often support socialist economic policies (income redistribution, social security, exemption from prosecution for union violence and on and on and on). *Some* people who call themselves anarchist look at all superficially hierarchical occurrences and want to get rid of them; the more honest ones favor preventing women from trying to look beautiful because that creates a hierarchy in which they can get what they want from men more easily. There is plenty of room for debate on what constitutes an undesirable hiearchy. So ancaps find it less distateful to allow a worker-boss "hierarchy" to develop than to force a hierarchy by expropriating someone's labor. So traditional anarchists find it less distasteful to seize the labor of the more productive than to allow a worker-boss hierarchy to develop. Does that make one more anarchist than another?
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