Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Images to improve/Archive/May 2008: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 07:05, 24 May 2008

Revision as of 07:04, 25 May 2008

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::::Ok I tried it quickly. When I put it to the colour you asked it blends with the background too much and thus becomes illegible again. [[User:XcepticZP|XcepticZP]] ([[User talk:XcepticZP|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

::Anyway, thanks again - you've done a great job. [[User:Diego pmc|diego_pmc]] ([[User talk:Diego pmc|talk]]) 18:04, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

==Flag of the Union of South American Nations==

{{Resolved}}

<center><gallery>

Image:BanderasAmericanas.jpg|USAN flag

Image:Flag of the Union of South American Nations.svg|Start

</gallery></center>

'''Article(s): [[Union of South American Nations]], [[Dutch language]]'''

'''Request:''' SVG, it sould be extreemly simple, just add the SVGs of the flags together in the correct position and presto!-- [[User:SelfQ|SelfQ]] ([[User talk:SelfQ|talk]]) 14:47, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

'''Graphist opinion:''' I'm on it. [[User:Mangwanani|Mangwanani]] ([[User talk:Mangwanani|talk]]) 17:36, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

::Here's a start. [[User:Mangwanani|Mangwanani]] ([[User talk:Mangwanani|talk]]) 17:58, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

:::The last ones are [[:Image:Flag of Brazil.svg]], [[:Image:Flag of Venezuela.svg]] and [[:Image:Flag of Argentina.svg]]. Don't forget to credit all of the sources for your images in the image description. Also the coat of arms in Ecuador's flag seems sqashed. Could try [[:Image:Flag of Ecuador.svg]] instead. /[[:User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 18:42, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

::::That is the flag I used. Brazil and Argentina are corrupted. Don't know what happened with Venezula... [[User:Mangwanani|Mangwanani]] ([[User talk:Mangwanani|talk]]) 15:34, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

:::::Oh ye, its corrupted too. [[User:Mangwanani|Mangwanani]] ([[User talk:Mangwanani|talk]]) 15:37, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

::::::It's probably a naming problem. Brazil, Venezuela and Chile probably all have definitions/elements called "star" (or star1 etc). Both Argentina and Uruguay probably have definitions/elements called sun. That's my first guess anyhow. The problem with the Ecuadorian flag is that it is wider then the others. When it's squashed the CoA should remain unsquashed (but still centered). /[[:User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 19:15, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

:::::::Pass [[User:Mangwanani|Mangwanani]] ([[User talk:Mangwanani|talk]]) 19:55, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

::::::::My suggestion is just stick with the civil variants as much as possible, just like it was done with Peru. [[User:Zscout370]] <small>^{[[User_talk:Zscout370|(Return Fire)]]}</small> 02:51, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::I think it would be best to stick as close to the original as posible, you would not add another star to the flag of the EU just because it would be easier to make. I would have thought this would be a snap, clearly I underestimated my knowledge of SVG's. My apologies. --[[User:SelfQ|SelfQ]] ([[User talk:SelfQ|talk]]) 21:37, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

::::::::::It still can be done, I just need to find time to hack at it. [[User:Zscout370]] <small>^{[[User_talk:Zscout370|(Return Fire)]]}</small> 21:40, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::::If it hasn't been done by the time my exams are over I will give it a shot. My plan was to rename the definitions. I.e. open the brasil falg in a text editor and replacing every occurence of "star" by "br-star" and similar for the other clashes. But if anyone gets around to it before then thats great too =) /[[:User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 09:31, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

:There we go, should be fixed now. /[[:User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 03:12, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

::Resolved? [[User:Mangwanani|Mangwanani]] ([[User talk:Mangwanani|talk]]) 16:17, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

:::Yes, its perfect, cheers. --[[User:SelfQ|SelfQ]] ([[User talk:SelfQ|talk]]) 16:32, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

== Intifada deaths ==

{{Resolved|1=[[User:Timeshifter|Timeshifter]] ([[User talk:Timeshifter|talk]]) 00:46, 22 May 2008 (UTC)}}.

'''Article:''' [[Second Intifada]]

'''Request:''' I used an online program to create this SVG chart: [[:Image:Intifada deaths.svg]]

It is currently in this article and section:

*[[Second Intifada#Combatant versus noncombatant deaths]]

There I used this wikicode:

:<nowiki>[[Image:Intifada deaths.svg|thumb|400px]]</nowiki>

In the caption it says "click image to enlarge."

So people do so, and arrive at the image description page where the image is at this size:

[[Image:Intifada deaths.svg|thumb|none|256px]]

Can someone adjust the size of the image so that it is around 600 pixels wide on the commons page, [[commons:Image:Intifada deaths.svg]], so that it is easily legible there? I don't know anything about SVG image editing.

:<nowiki>[[Image:Intifada deaths.svg|none|600px]]</nowiki>

[[Image:Intifada deaths.svg|none|600px]]

Also, what freeware SVG image editor is the easiest to use? I am interested in simplicity more than I am interested in options.

I see these pages:

*[[Comparison of vector graphics editors]]

*[[List of vector graphics editors]] --[[User:Timeshifter|Timeshifter]] ([[User talk:Timeshifter|talk]]) 02:54, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

**I recommend [[Inkscape]]. It's fairly easy to learn and hey, it's free.--[[User:HereToHelp|HereToHelp]] ^{([[User talk:HereToHelp|''talk to me'']])} 03:18, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

***Thanks. Any others you would recommend also? Is Inkscape easy-to-use for creating charts and graphs? That is my current interest. --[[User:Timeshifter|Timeshifter]] ([[User talk:Timeshifter|talk]]) 06:44, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

****Yes. Go to File->Document properties->Grids tab, which helps you keep everything nice and even. The text editing can be a little buggy at times, but it's useable, and there's good color editing and alignment tools, located in the main icon bar towards the right.--[[User:HereToHelp|HereToHelp]] ^{([[User talk:HereToHelp|''talk to me'']])} 11:44, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

*****Thanks again! I hope to check it out soon. --[[User:Timeshifter|Timeshifter]] ([[User talk:Timeshifter|talk]]) 22:26, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

(unindent) I did not know this. I have been using the Firefox browser a long time, and it sees a larger version of the chart when the chart is clicked on the image description page. But in Internet Explorer, one gets a message asking whether to open or save the SVG file. If one does not have an SVG viewer (like the freeware image editor [[IrfanView]]) installed, then one will not see the larger version of the chart. So this makes changing the default size of this chart more important. The SVG chart needs to be larger, or I will have to put back the GIF version of the chart in the article, [[Second Intifada]], so that when people click the chart in the article they see a more legible version. The Gif version is not as legible though at the 400-pixel-wide size of the image found in the article. Compare here:

[[Image:Intifada deaths.svg|thumb|none|400px]]

:<nowiki>[[Image:Intifada deaths.svg|thumb|none|400px]]</nowiki>

[[Image:Intifada deaths.gif|thumb|none|400px]]

:<nowiki>[[Image:Intifada deaths.gif|thumb|none|400px]]</nowiki>

Click the GIF image to see that it enlarges in any browser. --[[User:Timeshifter|Timeshifter]] ([[User talk:Timeshifter|talk]]) 07:17, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

IMHO this diagram needs some additional work:

* legend for brown color code missing

* legend for violet color code missing

* death number besides blue bullet to be removed

--[[User:Túrelio|Túrelio]] ([[User talk:Túrelio|talk]]) 07:30, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

:I agree. I used a primitive online editing program to create the chart. It is very quirky and did not allow me to do what I wanted. The chart could use a lot of work. I encourage others to create additional charts using better tools. Please upload those charts separately with different names. I want to keep working on this chart myself. I could use help though in getting it to a larger default size. --[[User:Timeshifter|Timeshifter]] ([[User talk:Timeshifter|talk]]) 07:36, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

::Additionally the weblink in the bottom should be removed. If that is the source for the info then that should be mantioned on the image page but not in the image itself. Anyhow I'll give it a try to have 600px as the standard viewing size (IE and FF). /[[:User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 15:17, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

[[Image:Intifada_deaths.svg|thumb|400px|[[:Image:Intifada deaths2.svg]]]]

:::OK [[:Image:Intifada deaths2.svg]] should do it. Also removed the url and the number 44 from the blue bullet point. Text is still needed for the last bullet points though. /[[:User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 15:29, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

::::Thanks! The chart is used outside Wikipedia, too. So the URL is needed. I will need to learn an SVG program. There are so many things wrong with my original chart due to the quirkiness of the online editing program I used. I have a request. Could you put "Killed by Israeli civilians" at the bottom right of the chart in the same format as the other column labels? I was unable to do it myself because the online program messed up other stuff when I tried that. Then you can remove the label text altogether from the blue label on the right side. Then I will upload your version of the chart (with or without the URL) in place of my original version. --[[User:Timeshifter|Timeshifter]] ([[User talk:Timeshifter|talk]]) 22:24, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

:::::Added the lable at the bottom of the blue bar but left the legend since all the other colours had them. Although I can see a need for the url when the chart is used outside wikipedia I'd leave it of the one used here, since we have specific image pages all that's needed is to put that info there instead. The only thing that's missing is some sort of legend for the brown and violet colours. Couldn't come up with a good formulation myself but if you have any suggestions I'll be happy to add them. /[[:User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 03:07, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

::::::Thanks again. How about "Israeli breakdown" and "Palestinian breakdown"? Also, do you happen to know what font the Wikipedia CSS style sheets are using for the SVG text in the chart? It looks good. It might be good to add that font name directly into the SVG code so that the SVG chart looks good outside Wikipedia, too. The SVG chart has a thin ugly font outside Wikipedia when I download the current SVG file and look at in my image editor, [[IrfanView]].

::::::Thought of something else. It might be good to label the totals too on the side: "Israeli total" and "Palestinian total." --[[User:Timeshifter|Timeshifter]] ([[User talk:Timeshifter|talk]]) 07:21, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

:::::::Added the last labels. The whole font issue is tricky since mediawiki has a notoriously bad track record when it comes to fonts. Removing the comic sans tag is however never wrong since it is a silly font to start with =). Anyhow hope the final version is ok. /[[:User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 14:13, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

::::::::It seems that I am having the same problem as before with the online chart creator. One thing gets fixed but then another problem shows up. When I removed the font name from the SVG code text I see that a serif font was then used by MediaWiki. A sans-serif font was being used by MediaWiki before. The serif font makes the chart almost unreadable at the size it is used in the wikipedia article (400 pixels wide).

(unindent) I uploaded a clearer version of the chart. A different sans-serif font is used this time (not comic sans). It has one less column, and no longer has a legend (now unnecessary). I also removed "Deaths" on the left side. I returned the source URL. It is important and takes little space. I will keep experimenting (see farther down) and uploading new versions. Feel free to do the same. I like this temp page for experimentation. It is the only way to see what MediaWiki will do with the SVG file. I still need to figure out how to make the default size of the chart larger on the commons image description page.--[[User:Timeshifter|Timeshifter]] ([[User talk:Timeshifter|talk]]) 06:53, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I downloaded and installed Inkscape and tried to figure out how to make charts a little bit. It looks way too difficult at first glance. So I looked at Google spreadsheets, and this is how far I have gotten:

*http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pxFe8WMMfSgBXHCHuC0wXZA&hl=en

It can export the chart in PDF, HTML, CSV, Excel, .ods (OpenDocument Spreadsheet format used by Open Office), and text. I think I might try Open Office next. I believe it edits charts and can save them in SVG. --[[User:Timeshifter|Timeshifter]] ([[User talk:Timeshifter|talk]]) 06:53, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

:Timeshifter, Do NOT delete people's posts. My deleted post was as follows(so all the people can see what you're trying to cover up):

::::Why are you incapable of using the set request format presented at the top of this page? The graphic lab is doing you a favor, so you should give us the courtesy and not mess up our system. This is happening way too often. These out of format requests need to be removed and not considered. [[User:XcepticZP|XcepticZP]] ([[User talk:XcepticZP|talk]]) 19:45, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

:[[User:XcepticZP|XcepticZP]] ([[User talk:XcepticZP|talk]]) 10:26, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

::I had responded to you concerning all of this on the talk page: [[Wikipedia_talk:Graphic Lab/Images to improve#Format Anomalies]], and I had implemented your request. So I removed your now-offtopic comment, since it was a duplication of the talk page, and I did not want to have to duplicate my reply here. So it was not a cover-up. Please [[WP:AGF]], and please reread [[WP:CIVIL]]. And please do not continue this offtopic discussion here. --[[User:Timeshifter|Timeshifter]] ([[User talk:Timeshifter|talk]]) 12:01, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

(unindent) The first SVG image, [[:Image:Intifada deaths.svg]], is not currently showing up. I put in a request for help at:

*[[commons:Commons:Administrators' noticeboard/Attention#Image:Intifada deaths.svg]] --[[User:Timeshifter|Timeshifter]] ([[User talk:Timeshifter|talk]]) 12:48, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

::The only problem with your update is that it once again made the image to small to read for IE users. I thought that was the main problem we tried to fix. Regarding the URL. I repeat that it should be in the image page and not in the actual image, if you want to use the image with the url outside wikipedia then you can add it to that version. Also lastly I think that the image was probably clearer when there were legends but that's a minor problem which can be fixed in the image caption. /[[:User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 14:40, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

:::Fixed image size and URL, also cleaned up the code and uploaded to [[:Image:Intifada deaths.svg]]. /[[:User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 15:13, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

:::Thanks! We might agree to disagree on the URL. Sources are commonly added to charts and graphs. I think the chart and the chart text is clearer at 400 pixels wide when the legend is removed. Can you tell me what to do in Inkscape to increase the default size of an SVG chart? I have been experimenting with another program, OpenOffice.org Calc, to try to create this chart better. I am having some luck with it. But it will take more time. --[[User:Timeshifter|Timeshifter]] ([[User talk:Timeshifter|talk]]) 15:19, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

::::Actually, it does look nicer without the legends. I've added the legend info to he image page instead, that way it can be put into the image description if desired. Hte default size problem is due to the "viewbox" parameter that had been added to the image. However if you just remove the viewbox parameter then you suddenly see all of the white space surrounding the image. The way I solved it was to reove the viewbox parameter then copy paste the whole image into a new image where the "page size" was the same as the image size. Then save it as "plain svg". This also had the added benefit of removing random junk code in the original version. If you find a good program for making charts in svg then please give me a shout since apart from doing it by hand in Inkscape (tedious) I haven't found any and there are a lot of charts/diagrams in [[:commons:Category:Images that should use vector graphics]] with subcategories. /[[:User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 15:45, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

:::::Thanks for the Inkscape how-to. [[OpenOffice.org Calc]] and [[OpenOffice.org Draw]] seem to be working for me so far. I have a chart built with them based on a spreadsheet using the stats in the chart here. It needs more work. [[OpenOffice.org]] can save in many formats, such as an .odg file. I have been looking for converters to SVG. Here are some links so far:

:::::http://www.google.com/search?q=svg+open+office

:::::http://www.google.com/search?q=odg+to+svg+converter

:::::http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/SVG_Import_Filter

:::::http://media-convert.com/ - Online tool.

:::::http://holloway.co.nz/docvert/

:::::[[OpenDocument software]]

:::::I am also checking out Swivel.com. Here is what I have so far:

:::::http://www.swivel.com/data_sets/show/1015629

:::::I don't know how to convert the data set to a bar chart there yet.

:::::I added the legend to the image caption at [[Second Intifada#Combatant versus noncombatant deaths]]. See this version:

:::::http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Second_Intifada&oldid=213739185 --[[User:Timeshifter|Timeshifter]] ([[User talk:Timeshifter|talk]]) 01:29, 21 May 2008 (UTC)