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MiszaBot II (talk | contribs) m Archiving 2 thread(s) from Template talk:WPBannerMeta. |
MiszaBot II (talk | contribs) m Archiving 2 thread(s) from Template talk:WPBannerMeta. |
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When constructing banners with large numbers of taskforces, it is useful to construct as "main taskforces", check the categories exist, and then "hook" them. Obviously the hooked ones come in tens, so it would be helpful if templatepage would prompt for the categories of 10 taskforces. Is there anything I have overlooked? — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 09:56, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
:Ah. I'm now triggering [[:Category:Pages with too many expensive parser function calls]] with all these ifexist calls. — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 11:00, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
== [[Template:WikiProject Anime and manga]] ==
::Reinventing?! I don't know what you're talking about! I'm trying to make a square wheel! =D But in any case, the reason I haven't converted yet is because we're doing some stuff with our B-class checklist that AFAIK WPBannerMeta can't do (and *not* because I really like being able to root around in the raw code, honest!). That being said, I haven't taken the time yet to study in detail just what WPBM *is* capable of, so do you want to surprise me? <span style="white-space: nowrap;">「[[User:Dinoguy1000|ダイノ]][[User talk:Dinoguy1000|<span style="color: #080; font-weight: normal;">ガイ</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Dinoguy1000|<span style="color: #F90;">千</span>]]？！」<sup>(Dinoguy1000)</sup></span> 19:21, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
:::Well, tell me what you're doing with your B-checklist and I'll bet we can do it with WPBM. — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 19:29, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
::::It's a bit complicated...
::::*class=Start
::::**B1-B6=N/unset - class stays at Start (B-Class checklist gets displayed only if one or more of B1-B6 contains *something*)
::::**B1-B6=Y - class upgrades to B
::::**B1-B6=various - class upgrades to C
::::*class=C/B
::::**B1-B6=N/unset - class at C
::::**B1-B6=Y - class at B
::::**B1-B6=various - class at C
::::You may also want to have a look at the source of [[Template:WikiProject Anime and manga/B check]] and some of the [[Template:WikiProject Anime and manga/testcases|testcases]]. <span style="white-space: nowrap;">「[[User:Dinoguy1000|ダイノ]][[User talk:Dinoguy1000|<span style="color: #080; font-weight: normal;">ガイ</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Dinoguy1000|<span style="color: #F90;">千</span>]]？！」<sup>(Dinoguy1000)</sup></span> 19:37, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
:::::Seems like with the simple addition of a [[Template:WPBannerMeta/class|custom class mask]], WPBM would work. Just take the code you are using for the b-checklist, drop it in the mask, and you're good to go. Anything else? <font color="red">[[User:DeFaultRyan|'''De''']]</font><font color="green">[[User Talk:DeFaultRyan|'''Fault''']]</font><font color="blue">[[Special:Contributions/DeFaultRyan|'''Ryan''']]</font> 20:06, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
::::::Dino, check your sandbox and testcases ;) — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 20:18, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Yep, so I saw. =) There are still a few issues relating to some esoteric assessments the current banner does (I think the only two are that it allows templates and categories to both be tagged as redirects, and that it allows project pages to be tagged as templates (and automatically does so if they are a subpage of [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Anime and manga/Userbox]])), the current banner uses some custom assessment categories ({{category|WikiProject Anime and manga templates}}, for instance), and there may be a few other details to suss out; I'm thinking really hard on just what this switch might inadvertently change (of course, we're not ready for it yet, all the task forces and other extras still have to be added). <span style="white-space: nowrap;">「[[User:Dinoguy1000|ダイノ]][[User talk:Dinoguy1000|<span style="color: #080; font-weight: normal;">ガイ</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Dinoguy1000|<span style="color: #F90;">千</span>]]？！」<sup>(Dinoguy1000)</sup></span> 20:25, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
:::::::: ... <span style="white-space: nowrap;">「[[User:Dinoguy1000|ダイノ]][[User talk:Dinoguy1000|<span style="color: #080; font-weight: normal;">ガイ</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Dinoguy1000|<span style="color: #F90;">千</span>]]？！」<sup>(Dinoguy1000)</sup></span> 03:09, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::Hey. You have complete control over the quality assessment by editing [[Template:WikiProject Anime and manga/class]]. Currently there is no namespace detection in it so will just display whatever class you enter. I'm sorry, there is no way to avoid using categories like [[:Category:Template-Class manga articles]], as this template uses {{tl|class}} and we've discussed this at [[Template talk:class]]! If you wanted to populate [[:Category:WikiProject Anime and manga templates]] as well, then the best way is probably to use a ''note'' without visible output. — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 05:09, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::::::Is there any way for me to make it work with the full assessment scale (FULL_QUALITY_SCALE), or am I going to have to just hack it together in {{tld|ANIME/class}}? Also, could you more clearly explain what you mean by using an "empty" note (had a 12-hour shift today for which I was up at 5:30, and it's after midnight now, so not thinking so clearly... need to go to bed already ;P )? Also, I suppose now is about as good a time as any to start discussing the various taskforces and other notes. My major concerns are the merge and split ones, due to having them set up to be able to accommodate targets, via mergeto, mergefrom, and splitto. <span style="white-space: nowrap;">「[[User:Dinoguy1000|ダイノ]][[User talk:Dinoguy1000|<span style="color: #080; font-weight: normal;">ガイ</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Dinoguy1000|<span style="color: #F90;">千</span>]]？！」<sup>(Dinoguy1000)</sup></span> 05:26, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
I've [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:WikiProject_Anime_and_manga/sandbox&diff=288419980&oldid=285711278 added] an example to show what I mean. But I think it would be better to just redirect this to the new category. — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 05:41, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
:All right, that seems easy enough. But right now, I'm more worried about the assessment itself - like I said, will I have to fool with the /class filter to get other namespaces assessing correctly, or is there any way to automate most of it with FULL_QUALITY_SCALE in this particular case? <span style="white-space: nowrap;">「[[User:Dinoguy1000|ダイノ]][[User talk:Dinoguy1000|<span style="color: #080; font-weight: normal;">ガイ</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Dinoguy1000|<span style="color: #F90;">千</span>]]？！」<sup>(Dinoguy1000)</sup></span> 05:47, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
::All the classes you want need to be defined in there. See [[Template:WPAFC/class]] for a typical one, which uses namespace detection if no class is entered. — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 05:55, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
:::All right, looks simple enough. I'll knock it together in the sandbox in a second, then. <span style="white-space: nowrap;">「[[User:Dinoguy1000|ダイノ]][[User talk:Dinoguy1000|<span style="color: #080; font-weight: normal;">ガイ</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Dinoguy1000|<span style="color: #F90;">千</span>]]？！」<sup>(Dinoguy1000)</sup></span> 06:44, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
[[User:G.A.S|G.A.S]] has pointed out several other issues for the conversion at [[Template talk:WikiProject Anime and manga#Moved from Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Dinoguy1000]]. Would you, Happy-melon, or WOSlinker (or some combination of the three of you) care to go have a look and comment? <span style="white-space: nowrap;">「[[User:Dinoguy1000|ダイノ]][[User talk:Dinoguy1000|<span style="color: #080; font-weight: normal;">ガイ</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Dinoguy1000|<span style="color: #F90;">千</span>]]？！」<sup>(Dinoguy1000)</sup></span> 18:22, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
:On my way ... yeah that's probably a better place to discuss these technical issues rather than on your RfA :) — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 12:25, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
== Blocking the categorisation ==
Hi there ! For the [[WP:CHESS|WikiProject Chess]] I have created all the "Category:Foo-Class chess articles of Zut-importance" (e.g. [[:Category:FA-Class chess articles of High-importance]], [[:Category:B-Class chess articles of Bottom-importance]], ...) and the [[Template:Chess-WikiProject]] has been changed to add the corresponding category with the following code:
:<nowiki>|HOOK_BOTTOM = {{#ifeq:{{{BANNER_NAME|Template:Chess-WikiProject}}}|{{FULLPAGENAME}}||{{#ifeq:{{{category|¬}}}|¬|[[Category:{{#if:{{{class|}}}|{{{class}}}-Class|Unassessed}} chess articles of {{{importance}}}-importance|{{PAGENAME}}]]}}}}}}</nowiki>
Also, the "Category:Foo-Class chess articles of Zut-importance" is made a subcategory of both "Category:Foo-Class chess articles" and "Category:Zut-importance chess articles".
But now the "Category:Foo-Class chess articles" will contain a given article twice:
* once because the [[Template:Chess-WikiProject]] automatically tags the article with "Category:Foo-Class chess articles",
* and once because the [[Template:Chess-WikiProject]] automatically tags the article with "Category:Foo-Class chess articles of Zut-importance", which is a subcategory of "Category:Foo-Class chess articles".
What I would like is to impeach the [[Template:Chess-WikiProject]] to add the tags "Category:Foo-Class chess articles" and "Category:Zut-importance chess articles", so that it only adds the tag "Category:Foo-Class chess articles of Zut-importance". Any idea on the safest and easiest way to do that ? [[User:SyG|SyG]] ([[User talk:SyG|talk]]) 11:54, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
:#Are you sure you want to [[impeach]] your template? :)
:#Your code is pretty good, but we have a "hook" especially for this purpose. You might like to have a look at [[Template:WPBannerMeta/hooks/qualimpintersect]] for a neater way to achieve this. At the moment, your code will fail if the editor does not use an capital initial letter for importance (e.g. top instead of Top). There are probably other issues as well.
:#I don't think we have a way to prevent categorisation in the class and importance categories and I don't think it would be a good idea anyway. For one, the [[User:WP 1.0 bot|WP 1.0 bot]] uses these to compile the statistics for your project. ([[Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Chess articles by quality log|This page]] wouldn't work if you didn't populate those categories.) All the other projects which use category intersection also categorise in the normal categories.
:#By the way QUALITY_SCALE = no currently acts the same way as QUALITY_SCALE = yes! You have to remove the parameter to stop it.
:— Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 12:15, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
::In the not-too-distant future, the bot that generates [[Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Chess articles by quality log|those neat stats tables]] is going to be updated; the new code (currently being tested) will do catgory intersections automatically. So each number in that table will become a link to a dynamically-generated list of intersections, without needing to maintain any of the intersection cats manually. So dropping the individual cats in favour of intersections won't just break the existing system, it'll be redundant to the new system; so you'd just have to reverse it when that new version comes out anyway. See [[User:WP 1.0 bot/Second generation]] for more details. <font color="forestgreen">[[User:Happy-melon|'''Happy''']]</font>‑<font color="darkorange">[[User talk:Happy-melon|'''melon''']]</font> 12:29, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
:::A bot is NOT required to create [[User:SunCreator/Test_Page3|those neat stats tables]], you can do it already with PAGESINCATEGORY, see [[User:SunCreator/Test_Page3]]. [[User:SunCreator|SunCreator]] ([[User talk:SunCreator|talk]]) 12:59, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
::I don't understand the advantages of adding categories to "Category:Foo-Class articles of Zut-importance". Why create [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category%3AFA-Class_chess_articles_of_High-importance&diff=288653924&oldid=288653900 these] categories(I mean the category on the category page it, not the category itself). Is not a solution to remove them all? Then you'll not have the duplication. It seemed fine before without them. Perhaps I am missing something. [[User:SunCreator|SunCreator]] ([[User talk:SunCreator|talk]]) 12:59, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Thanks for all your answers ! Here are some reactions:
:::*'''To Martin''': thanks for the hint about [[Template:WPBannerMeta/hooks/qualimpintersect]], I have implemented it in [[Template:Chess-WikiProject]] now. (but I still need to test it a bit, especially the very valuable upper/lower case stuff)
:::*'''To Martin and Happy-melon''': we at the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Chess]] have been using [[User:WP 1.0 bot|WP 1.0 bot]] for years now, so we are very happy and grateful for it. But now we are wondering if we should really continue to use a bot when, as SunCreator mentions, the normal function PAGESINCATEGORY can do the same in real-time with more flexibility. I have read [[User:WP 1.0 bot/Second generation]] but I am still musing about the actual need for it for our WikiProject, as we do not have taskforces and things like that. In essence, do we still need the bot-generated [[Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Chess articles by quality statistics]] once we have the bot-free [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Chess/Assessment statistics]] ?
:::*'''To SunCreator''' (and others): my understanding of the "Category" concept is that the more organised they are, the better. I thought they were meant to be a very pyramidal structure, hence my desire to have "Category:Foo-Class articles" contain all subcategories like "Category:Foo-Class articles of Zut-importance", so that "Category:Foo-Class articles of Zut-importance" is not uncategorised. Am I misled ?
:::[[User:SyG|SyG]] ([[User talk:SyG|talk]]) 13:25, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
::::To maintain the pyramid of organised categories how about instead putting them in [[:Category:Chess articles by quality]] and [[:Category:Chess_articles_by_importance]]. [[User:SunCreator|SunCreator]] ([[User talk:SunCreator|talk]]) 13:37, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
#SyG, I need to do some work on your template because unfortunately that hook does not work with weird importance scales. (Bottom-importance is interpreted as Unknown-importance now.) Feel free to remind me if I haven't done it in a couple of days.
#Yes you can do the pretty tables using PAGESINCAT but you can't do the quality log that I linked to earlier, and this is one of the main functions of the bot. And please reread Happy-melon's advice: the new bot will be here sometime ...
#Perhaps you two would like to continue the discussion about the categorisation on your project talk?
— Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 14:53, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
The WP1.0 bot has run for years, and now maintains lists of 2 million articles for eight hundred projects. While I agree that the PAGESINCATEGORY magic word offers ''in principle'' a real-time update, this is in reality not usually true given the vagarities of the job queue and page caching. But I do not agree that the system you propose offers any greater flexibility; if anything, it offers less. The WP 1.0 bot currently generates [[Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Chess articles by quality log|logs]] and [[Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Chess articles by quality|a priority worlist]] that track the evolution of your project's articles over time. You can [http://toolserver.org/~cbm/cgi-bin/wp10.2g/alpha/cgi-bin/table.pl?project=Chess see for yourself] what the second generation bot will be like (this is obviously a alpha-phase, expect bugs at this stage): as well as overall stats, [http://toolserver.org/~cbm/cgi-bin/wp10.2g/alpha/cgi-bin/list2.pl?projecta=Chess&importance=High-Class&quality=Start-Class&run=yes intersections] are generated dynamically, including the timestamp and version link to ''when'' the assessment was made, and [http://toolserver.org/~cbm/cgi-bin/wp10.2g/alpha/cgi-bin/log.pl?project=Chess logs] on a per-project or per-page basis, showing the evolution of the article's rating over time. Historical graphs of how a project's articles have improved are likely to follow; and you can [http://toolserver.org/~cbm/cgi-bin/wp10.2g/alpha/cgi-bin/index.pl? see] how WPChess is doing in comparison to other projects at ensuring a thorough coverage of article assessments, for both quality and importance.
That's all the stuff that the WP1.0 team can do for your project. The 1.0 assessment scheme, as the name suggests, is not just about WikiProjects. The 1.0 Editorial Team is responsible for creating static releases of Wikipedia: online stable archives, DVDs, and even printed books. The Assessment Scheme is how the Editorial Team identify articles that are of a high-enough quality to be included in such static media: articles are assigned a weighting based on their ratings for quality and importance, and articles that receive a high-enough ranking get automatically compiled by a bot script, reviewed for quality and 'cleanliness', and compiled into the final release. So in one sense it's very simple: if no Chess-related articles are assessed on the 1.0 Assessment Scheme, no Chess articles will be considered for static releases. Of course, if articles happen to also be assessed by another project that ''does'' use the assessment scheme, then they may still be included, but many may not. For instance, [[Rules of chess]] would be excluded automatically, and articles like [[Emanuel Lasker]], despite being assessed by numerous other projects, probably wouldn't be identified either because the other projects have marked it as low-priority. And yet you ''are'' using the 1.0 Assessment Scheme, to the letter! Electing to go through the process of assessing and maintaining articles, yet not to take advantage of the benefits that that entails, both to WPChess and to Wikipedia in general, seems fundamentally misguided. <font color="forestgreen">[[User:Happy-melon|'''Happy''']]</font>‑<font color="darkorange">[[User talk:Happy-melon|'''melon''']]</font> 15:21, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
:'''To Happy-melon''': Thanks for your detailed explanations, now I see much more clearly what the new version of the bot will do. Sorry I did not explain myself clearly, my intention was not to abandon the assessment scheme, but simply to use directly the PAGESINCAT to manage the assessment table. As you notice, there are many other things the bot does and will do, so probably we will use both in parallel (I mean, the PAGESINCAT for the table and the bot for the other stuff, notably the log) until the 2nd version of the bot is alive, and fully switch to the bot then.
:'''To Martin''': sorry to be such a pain with the Bottom-class, which is indeed the class why we have all these problems in the first place. I do not want to give you more work, you probably have much more important features to develop. So maybe if I just revert to the former code, however inelegant, it will work correctly ?
: [[User:SyG|SyG]] ([[User talk:SyG|talk]]) 16:33, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
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