Ogg formats in HTML5: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 23:04, 5 October 2020

Revision as of 19:42, 13 January 2021

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| title = Ogg Theora, H.264 and the HTML 5 Browser Squabble | date = 6 July 2009

| author = RoughlyDrafted Magazine | publisher = RoughlyDrafted Magazine

| url = http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/07/06/ogg-theora-h-264-and-the-html-5-browser-squabble/ | accessdateaccess-date = 14 February 2010

}}</ref>

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* Embedding of multimedia by the use of clear and straightforward <code>video</code> and <code>audio</code> elements would require less effort than mastering the [[HTML element#Images and objects|<code>object</code>]] element or learning [[ActionScript]] as required by Adobe Flash.{{fact|date=January 2012}}

[[Chief technical officer|CTO]] at [[Opera Software]], [[Håkon Wium Lie]] explained in a Google tech talk entitled "The <video> element" the proposal of Theora as the video format for HTML5:<ref>{{cite web |title=Håkon Wium Lie on the video element in HTML 5 |url=http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5545573096553082541&ei=LV6hSaz0JpbA2AKh4OyPDg&hl=un |accessdateaccess-date=2009-02-22 |publisher=Google Video |date=2007-03-29}}</ref>

{{quote|I believe very strongly, that we need to agree on some kind of baseline video format if [the video element] is going to succeed. [...] We want a freely implementable open standard to hold the content we put out. That's why we developed the [[Portable Network Graphics|PNG]] image format. [...] PNG [...] came late to the party. Therefore I think it's important that from the beginning we think about this.}}

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|url=http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,140408-pg,1/article.html

|title=Mozilla, Opera Want to Make Video on the Web Easier |publisher=PC World |date=2007-12-07

|accessdateaccess-date=2009-06-30

}}</ref>

Support has been available in experimental builds of [[Opera (browser)|Opera]] 9.5 since 2007,<ref>{{cite web

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|publisher=Dev.opera.com

|date=2007-11-07

|accessdateaccess-date=2009-06-30

}}</ref> and Ogg Theora is fully supported since [[Opera 10|Opera 10.50]].<ref>{{cite web |url=http://my.opera.com/core/blog/2009/12/31/re-introducing-video |title=(re-)Introducing <video> - Official blog for Core developers at Opera |first=Philip |last=Jägenstedt |publisher=Opera |date=2009-12-31 |accessdateaccess-date=2010-01-02}}</ref>

[[Gecko (layout engine)|Gecko]] 1.9.1 (browsers based on this engine include [[Mozilla Firefox 3.5]] and [[SeaMonkey]] 2.0<ref name="seamonkey2">{{citation

|title = SeaMonkey 2.0 - What's New in SeaMonkey 2.0

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|first = Robert |last = Kaiser |publisher = seamonkey-project.org

|url = http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/seamonkey2.0/

|accessdateaccess-date = 2009-10-31}}</ref>), released on June 30, 2009, was the first non-experimental layout engine to support Ogg formats. [[Google Chrome]] included support in their 3.0 release (September 2009),<ref>{{cite web

|url = http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/09/google-chrome-after-year-sporting-new.html

|title = Google Chrome after a year: Sporting a new stable release

|first = Anthony |last=Laforge

|date = September 15, 2009

|accessdateaccess-date = 2009-09-22

}}</ref> along with support for [[H.264/MPEG-4 AVC|H.264]]. However, they did not support [[MPEG-1]] (the parts patents on which are thought to have expired), citing concerns over performance.<ref>{{cite web

|url = http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2009-May/019992.html

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|date = May 29, 2009

|publisher = [[WHATWG]]

|accessdateaccess-date = 2009-06-24

}}</ref>

Microsoft began work in October 2017 on implementing support for Ogg, Vorbis, and Theora in Windows 10 and [[Microsoft Edge]].<ref name="firewalldvsufw">{{cite web|title=Microsoft adding Ogg, Theora, and Vorbis open media formats to Windows 10|url= https://www.slightfuture.com/technote/ufw-vs-firewalld|website=Ctrl blog|accessdateaccess-date=10 October 2017}}</ref>

==Opposition==

On October 17, 2007, the [[World Wide Web Consortium]] encouraged interested people to take part in a "Video on the Web Workshop", held on December 12, 2007, for two days.<ref>{{cite web |url = http://www.w3.org/2007/08/video/ |title = W3C Video on the Web Workshop |accessdateaccess-date = 2008-06-14}}</ref> A number of global companies were involved, submitting position papers.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.w3.org/2007/08/video/positions/|title=Workshop Papers|publisher=[[W3C]]|accessdateaccess-date=2009-06-23}}</ref> Among them, [[Nokia]]'s paper<ref name="nokia-ogg">{{cite conference

|first = Stephan

|last = Wenger

|title = Web Architecture and Codec Considerations for Audio-Visual Services

|booktitlebook-title = W3C Workshop on Video on the Web, December 12–13, 2007

|date = 28 November 2007

|url = http://www.w3.org/2007/08/video/positions/Nokia.pdf

|accessdateaccess-date = 2008-02-25

}}</ref> states that "a W3C-led standardization of a 'free' codec, or the active endorsement of proprietary technology such as Ogg [...] by W3C, is, in our opinion, not helpful". [[Xiph.org]]'s codecs, while licensed under a [[BSD licenses#BSD-style licenses|BSD-style]] [[permissive free software license]], implement a standard controlled by Xiph.org themselves, rather than a multi-vendor community such as MPEG. [[Apple Inc.]], a member of the [[MPEG LA]], has also opposed the inclusion of Ogg formats in the HTML standard on the grounds that [[H.264]] performs better and is already more widely supported, citing patents on their codec's efficiency and the lack of precedents of "Placing requirements on format support", even at the "SHOULD" level, in HTML specifications.<ref name="apple-ogg">{{cite mailing list

|url=http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2007-March/010392.html

|title=&#91;whatwg&#93; Codecs (was Re: Apple Proposal for Timed Media Elements)

|date=21 March 2007

|accessdateaccess-date=2008-02-25

|mailinglistmailing-list=whatwg mailing list

|last=Stachowiak

|first=Maciej

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|title = &#91;whatwg&#93; Video codec requirements changed

|date = 10 December 2007

|accessdateaccess-date = 2008-02-25

|mailinglistmailing-list = whatwg mailing list

|last = Hickson

|first = Ian

|archiveurlarchive-url = https://www.webcitation.org/66FyLFzqr?url=http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2007-December/013135.html

|archivedatearchive-date = 18 March 2012

|url-status = dead

|df = dmy-all

}}</ref> replacing the reference to Theora and Vorbis with a placeholder:<ref>{{cite web |url=http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=1142&to=1143 |title=(X)HTML5 Tracking |publisher=[[HTML5]].org |accessdateaccess-date=2009-06-23}}</ref>

{{quote|It would be helpful for interoperability if all browsers could support the same codecs. However, there are no known codecs that satisfy all the current players: we need a codec that is known to not require per-unit or per-distributor licensing, that is compatible with the open source development model, that is of sufficient quality as to be usable, and that is not an additional submarine patent risk for large companies. This is an ongoing issue and this section will be updated once more information is available.<ref>{{cite mailing list |url=http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2007-December/013152.html |title=&#91;whatwg&#93; Removal of Ogg is *preposterous* |publisher=Lists.whatwg.org |date=11 December |accessdateaccess-date=2009-08-25 |mailinglistmailing-list=[[WHATWG]] |archiveurlarchive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20080821163038/http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2007-December/013152.html |archivedatearchive-date=2008-08-21 |url-status=dead }}</ref>}}

The removal of the Ogg formats from the specification made it completely file format neutral, like previous versions of HTML. The decision was criticized by a number of [[Web developer]]s. A follow-up discussion also occurred on the W3C questions and answers blog.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.w3.org/QA/2007/12/when_will_html_5_support_soone.html |title=When will HTML 5 support &lt;video&gt;? Sooner if you help |last=Connolly |first=Dan |date=December 18, 2007 |publisher=[[W3C]] |accessdateaccess-date=2009-06-23}}</ref>

In response to criticism, the [[WHATWG]] has cited concerns over the Ogg formats still being within patent lifetime and thus vulnerable to unknown patents.<ref>{{cite mailing list |url=http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2007-December/013154.html |title=Re: &#91;whatwg&#93; Removal of Ogg is *preposterous* |date=11 December 2007 |accessdateaccess-date=2008-02-25 |mailinglistmailing-list=whatwg mailing list |last=Hickson |first=Ian |archiveurlarchive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20080821194930/http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2007-December/013154.html |archivedatearchive-date=21 August 2008 |url-status=dead |df=dmy-all }}</ref>

Such [[submarine patent]]s may also exist for formats like [[MP3]]. Also, the [[H.264/MPEG-4 AVC|AVC]] patent licensing policy is subject to change in a not-yet-clear manner.<ref>{{cite news |last=Paul |first=Ryan |title=Decoding the HTML 5 video codec debate |work=Infinite Loop / The Apple Ecosystem |date=2009-07-05 |url=https://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/07/decoding-the-html-5-video-codec-debate.ars |accessdateaccess-date=2012-07-25}}</ref>

==Adoption==

{{As of|2010|May}}, HTML5 video is not currently as widespread as Flash videos, though of recent rollouts of experimental HTML5-based video players on websites, DailyMotion is so far the only one to use Ogg Theora and Vorbis formats,<ref>{{cite web |title=Watch Video…without Flash |publisher=Dailymotion |date=2009-05-27 |url=http://blog.dailymotion.com/index.php/2009/05/27/watch-videowithout-flash/ |accessdateaccess-date=2010-05-18 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20100822205946/http://blog.dailymotion.com/index.php/2009/05/27/watch-videowithout-flash/ |archive-date=2010-08-22 |url-status=dead }}</ref> which suggests an increasing early interest in adopting HTML5 video.

"[[WebRTC]] Audio Codec and Processing Requirements" Internet standard drafts, published in 2011-2013, require free formats, including [[Opus (audio codec)|Opus]], which was developed, among others, by programmers associated with [[Xiph.Org Foundation]] (the maintainer of [[Ogg]]).<ref>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-03</ref><ref>https://wiki.xiph.org/OpusFAQ</ref><!-- does WebRTC use Opus in Ogg? -->