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: Someone told me that this discussion is flaring up again, so here I am. The danger is that international recognition is a sufficient, but not necessary criterion to determine the existence of a sovereign state. Otherwise, we should state that the PRC was a unrecognized state or non-soverign state from 1949 to 1971 because it was not recognized by a majority of countries in the world and it was not a UN member during that time. We could say that the United States was not a soveriegn state in the early 1800's because the British diplomatically harassed those who tried to cozy up with the fledging American republic. This demonstrates the existence of a temporal POV: that is, a POV that changes with respect to time. What we can do is this: for each entity with controversial soveriegnty, we include a footnote, which says "sovereignty disputed: see so and so article for the different points of view." We should also sample various non-governmental world atlases for the purpose of verification in order to minimize the possibility of political agenda. [[User:Allentchang|Allentchang]] 16:41, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
::Er, the PRC had at least as much recognition in the 50s and 60s as the ROC has now, and I don't think anybody is suggesting we remove the ROC. UN membership is certainly irrelevant - nobody would deny that Switzerland was sovereign before 2002, for instance. As to the United States, that's ridiculous - the United States had diplomatic recognition of some sort from most European states starting in 1783. Including, er, the British, who, so far as I'm aware, never made any effort to prevent other states from having diplomatic recognition from them. At any rate, the PRC, which had effective control over the whole of mainland China, is hardly comparable to some dubious entity like South Ossetia or Transnistria, the latter of which, at least, apparently can't even issue its own passports. Of the ''de facto'' states, North Cyprus and Somaliland seem like they should potentially be mentioned. The rest seem highly problematic. [[User:John Kenney|john k]] 17:12, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
::: In this discussion, I agree with you. But I would go farther and push for the pure and simple deletion of this article. Why? Because the criteria for including states in it is either subjective and/or based on [[WO:OR]] (Montevideo, etc), or corresponds to some other clearly-defined notion, such as UN membership, recognition, etc. Ask yourselves this question: What states would you have in this list, and which criterion not involving original research allows their inclusion. [[User:Dpotop|Dpotop]] 19:34, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
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