Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Photography workshop/Archive/Sep 2014: Difference between revisions
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::Yes to both, and thank you for the follow-up!--[[User:Kintetsubuffalo|Kintetsubuffalo]] ([[User talk:Kintetsubuffalo|talk]]) 10:39, 2 September 2014 (UTC)
::{{ping|EuroCarGT}} Sorry if I'm stepping on your toes here, but you didn't put up an <nowiki>{{I take}}</nowiki> so I went ahead and pulled out a higher res version of the signature. I had an idea on how to do it that I wanted to try out. Again, sorry if I butted in where I wasn't wanted. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
:::{{ping|MjolnirPants}} It's okay. Remember this is not a race or some photo editing competition. If you feel like you want to help go ahead! Also we're volunteers just doing what we can to assist each other. [[User:EuroCarGT|<span style="color:cyan">'''///Euro'''</span><span style="color:grey">'''Car'''</span>]][[User talk:EuroCarGT|<span style="color:orange">'''GT'''</span>]] 20:22, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
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'''Graphist opinion(s):'''
:{{i take}} <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
::{{done}} <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
:Wow, great, thanks! Can we round out the Transparent metal double eagle, or would that be OR?--[[User:Kintetsubuffalo|Kintetsubuffalo]] ([[User talk:Kintetsubuffalo|talk]]) 14:03, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
::I don't think it would be [[WP:OR]], because we're talking about an image, not factual claims. I suppose one could argue that extrapolating out the missing pieces is some sort of [[WP:OR|Synthesis]], but that would be highly spurious. I didn't do so initially because I was trying to preserve the integrity of the image. But as long as the image is illustrating that type of coin, instead of that coin in particular, I don't see any problem with modifying it. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
:::Let me know what you think of it now. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
:They're wonderful, thank you so much!--[[User:Kintetsubuffalo|Kintetsubuffalo]] ([[User talk:Kintetsubuffalo|talk]]) 14:35, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
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'''Graphist opinion(s):'''
:{{done}} I also removed the watermark. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
::Sorry so late-great, thank you!--[[User:Kintetsubuffalo|Kintetsubuffalo]] ([[User talk:Kintetsubuffalo|talk]]) 00:42, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
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'''Graphist opinion(s):'''
:{{done}} <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
::Thank you. [[User talk:Jaqeli|Jaqeli]] 13:09, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
:::{{ping|MjolnirPants}} Can you please clean a bit around his headwear at the left? [[User talk:Jaqeli|Jaqeli]] 15:45, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
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'''Graphist opinion(s):'''
:{{done}} <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
::{{ping|MjolnirPants}} This is perfect. Thanks a lot. Can you please remove that shining behind and around the head of Luarsab? [[User talk:Jaqeli|Jaqeli]] 19:44, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
:::{{done}} <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
::::{{Ping|MjolnirPants}} Please crate new files for colourisations; do not overwrite originals. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 22:47, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|Pigsonthewing}} I performed the edits as requested. If you have a problem with that, take it up with the person posting the request, or better yet: fix it yourself. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
::::::No, MjolnirPants, take responsibility for your own actions, and certainly don't ask other people to follow you around clearing up your messes! A colourization should ''never'' overwrite the original; they are different animals. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 00:08, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
::::::What Jonbod said; but furthermore, you were ''not'' asked to replace the original image. I've [[:Commons:Commons:Village pump#Colourising and replacing images|raised this matter on Commons]], too. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 12:14, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
:::::{{Ping|Johnbod}}, {{Ping|Pigsonthewing}} Both of you need to read [[WP:CIVIL]] and come back when you have. You will '''never''' get my cooperation the way you are approaching me, and you both should damn well know better than to think you would. Especially when you come here acting as if you are correcting me on some policy violation, when all you are doing is shouting opinions at me. Had you approached me with a level of civility, I would have agreed that the colorized versions should be separate files and been happy to fork them off. Indeed, I '''do''' agree that they should be different files. However, after the way you two have approached me, I have no intention of helping you in any way. So once again: If you have a problem with the way something is, go fix it. Continuing to be rude to me will not accomplish anything more than to convince me that I'm wasting my time by volunteering here. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
::::::I think it is you who needs to read WP:CIVIL, since nothing John or I have said transgresses it. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 13:08, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
:::::::Accusing someone of creating a mess and telling them to "take responsibility" for it does not fall under any definition of civility, nor does simply saying that someone is doing something wrong and it should be done a different way. Read [[Wikipedia:Civility#Avoiding_incivility|Avoiding incivility]], where two of the points are that explaining one's self and avoiding being bossy are part of how one remains civil. Had your initial post brought up concerns about the appropriateness of colored images and asked my opinion, or even been a ''request'' for me to fork out colored versions, instead of a demand that I do so, I would have. Instead, you posted a demand that I do things differently (appending "please" to a demand does not make it less of a demand), Johnbod came along and accused me of being irresponsible and creating a mess, and you chimed back in with the claim that I was '''not''' asked to colorize the images, but rather to create new, colored versions (despite the fact that the request was simply to colorize that image). There's nothing civil about that. Following is an example of how this could have gone down:
:::::::*'''You:''' I'm not sure it's appropriate to colorize these images. MjolnirPants, do you think you could fork out the colored versions of these requests until this matter is resolved?
:::::::*'''Me:''' No problem.
:::::::I'm sure you think that's not how I would have actually responded, but you are wrong. I have had no involvement in this issue beyond being asked to colorize an image, and then being criticized for doing so. If you can work up consensus for a "no colorizing images' policy, I would be happy to abide by it. I would even vote in favor of it, as the concerns expressed below in [[#Ilia Chavchavadze]] are valid in my opinion. However, when you come here without a policy in hand and insist I do things a certain way, then point to discussions you have had with others (including one user who is supposedly retired) '''after''' the fact (without ever making an effort to include me in that discussion) as the reason for this, you are not making efforts to change how something is being done, but rather making efforts to engender a conflict between the two of us. Finally, simply telling you how I will react under certain circumstances does not constitute incivility on my part. My initial response to you may have bordered on incivility in that I never explained why I won't cooperate, but you now have that explanation. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
:::::::::I'm sure Andy and Johnbod could have been more polite. Perhaps they should have added a smiley face or something, but not being "polite" is not a personal attack by wikipedia's definition. So invoking that was wrong. Alternatively, you could have been a whole lot defensive and touchy. What you did was clearly wrong. Replacing an historically authentic image with a colourised one should never happen. Personally, I think unspeakable images such as [[:File:Mary Eristavi (crop) colorized.jpg|this]] should never happen ''at all''. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 14:24, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::1) It is quite possible (see above and your own post) to be uncivil without engaging in personal attacks, I never accused anyone of engaging in personal attacks, and [[WP:CIVIL]] is about civility, not just personal attacks.
::::::::::2) Telling me I am "clearly wrong" to tell people that I will not respond to demands and rudeness is ridiculous. It also accomplishes nothing but broadening the conflict.
::::::::::3) I am not responsible for that example image you gave, nor is that example even of a replaced image. The original is [[:File:Mary Eristavi (crop).jpg|right here]], and it is linked in the description of the image you posted. Additionally, I am not responsible for making '''any''' of the colorization requests, nor am I responsible for fulfilling '''all''' of them. Even in those cases where I have taken a request, I took it and fulfilled it in good faith, while assuming good faith on the part of the requester. For you to attempt to blame me because you feel the request should never have been made is highly ridiculous.
::::::::::Finally, I've already explained that I will not be harangued into doing anything. This argument is counterproductive and I'm through with it. For the last time: If you have a problem with the way I handled the requests, go ahead and fix it yourself. That's all I have to say on the matter and I'll not be drawn any further into this sort of tripe nonsense. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
::::::::::::'''You''' are personally responsible for all the images you make and alter. It is quite understandable that other editors get angry when they read self-justifications like that. You cannot avoid responsibility by presenting yourself as some mere technician who is 'just obeying orders'. I linked the Mary Eristavi image as an example of the kind of image that should ''never'' be made in the first place. I didn't know who'd made it, but I see that you ''were'' responsible for the recent update of it: [[:File:Mary Eristavi (color2).png]], which is just as bad IMO. I still see not 'incivility' by Wikipedia's definition. Of course I know that the quite beautiful original b+w photograph exists. Creating the coloured abomination serves no more purpose other than creating a coloured-in version of a Julia Margaret Cameron photograph. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 16:41, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
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:{{i take}} <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
::{{done}} <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
:::Thanks a lot for your great work. [[User talk:Jaqeli|Jaqeli]] 11:59, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
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'''Graphist opinion(s):'''
: {{i take}}<span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
:: {{done}} In the future, you should bring this sort of request to the [[Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Illustration workshop|Illustration Workshop]]. There are a lot more people familiar with vector graphics over there. :-) <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
:::Thank you. No, most of the signatures are requested here and most of the signatures for SVGization were actualy done here so again thanks a lot for your great work. [[User talk:Jaqeli|Jaqeli]] 15:47, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
::::I think you may have missed the point, Jaqeli. The Illustration Workshop deals with SVGs/vectorization, the Photography Workshop deals with raster graphics. Posting a vectorization request here might have got you what you want, but it's most definitely in the wrong place and will end up archived in the wrong place too. So pretty please, with a cherry on top... '''<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS; font-size:1.3em; letter-spacing:-0.07em; line-height:1em;">[[User:nagualdesign|<font color="#000000">nagual</font>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<font color="#ABAB9D">design</font>]]</span>''' 19:33, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
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:{{i take}} Do you want the halo removed as well? <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
::Yes please if you can. [[User talk:Jaqeli|Jaqeli]] 16:11, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
:::{{done}}<span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
::::{{ping|MjolnirPants}} Thanks a lot. It is great. Can you please make the crown and the handle of sword with more golden color? [[User talk:Jaqeli|Jaqeli]] 14:34, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
:::::I bumped the saturation levels on the crown and sword hilt. That's actually making it ''less'' golden, because gold doesn't show very saturated colors, but if it looks better, it looks better. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
::::::{{ping|MjolnirPants}} Thank you for you great work again. [[User talk:Jaqeli|Jaqeli]] 14:57, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
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: This picture could quite possibly be the most dramatic picture of the Armenian Genocide. I have nominated it for FP awhile back, and I want to nominate it again. The nomination, unfortunately, did not go through (see: [[Wikipedia:Featured_picture_candidates/Armenian_mother]]). You can see why people have opposed it there and make initial improvements accordingly. I would really love if we can improve it to bring it up to FP quality. If you want to work with the original file, here's the [http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/cph.3a48241/ link] to the LOC page. I'd say, the .tiff is the best file to work on in this case. Perhaps we can make it large enough for FP while retaining its quality? That'll be ideal. Also, I'll greatly appreciate it if you can upload the alternates through different files. Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks in advance, [[User:EtienneDolet|Étienne Dolet]] ([[User talk:EtienneDolet|talk]]) 18:00, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
'''Graphist opinion(s):'''
:{{i take}} I've got some ideas on how to work this image that I think will yield spectacular results. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
::{{done}} Tell me what you think of it now. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
:::My my my...what a wonderful job. The power and emotion emanating from this photograph has been lifted to new levels. I can't thank you enough {{u|MjolnirPants}}. I shall nominate it to FP either today or tomorrow. [[User:EtienneDolet|Étienne Dolet]] ([[User talk:EtienneDolet|talk]]) 06:02, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
::::If you're happy with the results, could you please mark this request as resolved? Thanks so much. :) <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
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: I scaled it up, cropped it, tweaked the levels to try to bring out some of the details and got rid of the compression distortion. Let me know what you think. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
::That's worlds better, thank you!--[[User:Kintetsubuffalo|Kintetsubuffalo]] ([[User talk:Kintetsubuffalo|talk]]) 15:21, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
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'''Graphist opinion(s):'''
:{{i take}} Do you want the background removed and a .png made of it? <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
::Either way. This one looks great, thank you!--[[User:Kintetsubuffalo|Kintetsubuffalo]] ([[User talk:Kintetsubuffalo|talk]]) 15:22, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
:::Thank Centpacrr. He/she's the one who actually made the changes. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
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'''Graphist opinion(s):'''
:{{done}} I also scaled it back up just a tad, so it is still the same width. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
== File:Krokan.jpg ==
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:{{done}} <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<
::Thank you. [[User talk:Jaqeli|Jaqeli]] 21:53, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
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