Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request/Archive 3: Difference between revisions
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makes the same claim and contains in its bibliography the paper,
*GK Cwierawa, "Ányos Jedlik-wengierski pioner elektrotechniki", ''Kwartalnik Historiki Nauk i Techniki'', No 2, 1971
which I assume is the source of Simon's information. I am not looking for a copy of the whole paper (I don't read Hungarian anyway) merely the citation for Jedlik's original publication of his work (assuming that there is one). Thanks. [[User:Spinningspark|'''<
:There doesn't seem to be a citation in the [http://droptone.googlepages.com/jedlik.pdf article].--[[User:Droptone|droptone]] ([[User talk:Droptone|talk]]) 21:02, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
::Thanks for that, please leave it up until user Edison has seen it as well who is also interested. I am surprised you have it in English, presumably that is a translation not the original? [[User:Spinningspark|'''<
:::That's from ''Made in Hungary...'', not the original Hungarian article.--[[User:Droptone|droptone]] ([[User talk:Droptone|talk]]) 07:47, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
::::Oh I see, in that case you have misunderstood, I can already read ''Made in Hungary'' on google books preview. It does in fact have a source (although not inline in the text, it's on page 404) which I have quoted above. What we are trying to do is trace the source of Simon's claim since we doubt it is true. I am looking for the Hungarian paper he quotes, not the book itself. Even that is not the end of it since a 1971 paper author could not possibly have direct experience of an 1828 event, that paper itself must have had a source which is what I am ultimately trying to establish. [[User:Spinningspark|'''<
:::::Seems it went unpublished:<blockquote>His experimental machine made in 1861 had a special feature of technological importance; namely, the principle of self-excitation, in other words, the dynamo principle first appeared in the operating instructions Jedlik wrote for this machine. This machine was only used as a demonstration device, and Jedlik did not publish the new construction.[http://ppp.unipv.it/Collana/Pages/Libri/Saggi/Volta%20and%20the%20History%20of%20Electricity/V&H%20Sect2/V&H%20175-182.pdf]</blockquote> citing Verebely (1931), "Ányos Jedlik A Hungarian Pioneer of Electricity", ''Elektrotechnika'' '''24''', pp. 213-26 and Singer, H., and Hall, W. (1958), ''A History of Technology'', vol. V, part 2.10, p. 187. Apparently the operating instructions appeared in an inventory for the university. The "1828 event" you mention is i think one of 292 experiments listed in 1829 which concludes: "an electromagnetic wire can create continuous rotating movement around a similarly electromagnetic wire", a DC motor w/ commutator, not a dynamo.—[[User:EricR|eric]] 16:17, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
::::::One user has inserted claims in several articles tht Jedlik invented the electric motor, the electric motor with electromagnets for the stationary and rotating parts along with the commutator, the electric vehicle, and several other things. I have asked in the [[Electric motor]] talk page for a good reference showing what year he publicly demonstrated and published any such inventions, and have not gotten a satisfactory response. A photo of a museum model is shown in the article, which is claimed to be from 1828, with many modern features, but with uncertain provenance. There are many cases of museums having illustrative models constructed in modern times, but falsely claimed to be the device constructed many years earlier. The above sounds like there was an inventory at the university dating to 1861, which is the first documentation, if not publication. This is a pretty weak claim, given that others had published publicly demonstrated, been written up in the scientific and popular press and taken out patents for "electromagnetic wire rotating around electromagnetic wire" long before 1861. A college teacher could be expected to build demo devices to illustrate what was going on ion the field, and it is too easy to attribute decades of developments to the first year Jedlik did any demo of electromagnetism in his classes, back in 1828 or whenever. It sounds like a backdated claim. More translation of what he wrote, and clear statement of when he wrote it, is essential to understand Jedlik's role. Recent web pages or popular articles which simply assert, without references, that Jedlik "invented the electric motor in 1828" are not convincing when other claimants have lots of public presentation of their work at the actual time of their inventions. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 16:43, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::::I don't think we need to try and convince anyone here at the library. We just need to say what documents we want them to go find. [[User:Spinningspark|'''<
::::::::So you are looking for #290 from an 1829 notebook which details 292 experiments used as demonstrations in his classes for the motor, and an 1861 university inventory that contains operating instructions for the dynamo. Or is it enough to show that he did not publish on either?—[[User:EricR|eric]] 22:52, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
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