Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals/Archive/March 2007: Difference between revisions
Content deleted Content added
Goldenrowley (talk | contribs) m add Euro-FC |
Goldenrowley (talk | contribs) m archived more topics. |
||
Line 1:
'''March 2007 stub proposal archives'''
===Thai-geo subtypes===
{{sfp create}}
*{{cl|Northern Thailand geography stubs}}
*{{cl|Isan geography stubs}}
*{{cl|Central Thailand geography stubs}}
*{{cl|Southern Thailand geography stubs}}
Parent is now oversized, and as the country has over 70 first-order subdivisions, those seem unlikely to be viable in the short term. Instead, I suggest upmerged provincial templates, feeding into the above allegedly generally-recognised [[regions of Thailand]]. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 19:36, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
:Generally support/I question naming of Isan is that a good idea? [[User:Goldenrowley|Goldenrowley]] 20:29, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
::That's what the {featured) [[Isan|article]] is called. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 22:37, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
:::"Northeast Thailand" is an alternative name, according to [[regions of Thailand]].It looks like Isan is a regional name, based on the language and can be spelled several ways. [[User:Goldenrowley|Goldenrowley]] 23:57, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
::::If there's a case for a different name, I'd suggest addressing that at the article in the first instance. If we have a {{tl|Isan-geo-stub}}, then also having a template or redirect at {{tl|Northeast-Thailand-geo-stub}} might be sensible, though in the first instance I was thinking in terms of having only the upmerged provincial templates. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 01:22, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
:::::Ok I am in consensus. [[User:Goldenrowley|Goldenrowley]] 04:32, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
*Support and will help sort it. [[User:Aelfthrytha|Aelfthrytha]] 13:48, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
{{sfd bottom}}
==={{cl|Irish sportspeople stubs}}===
{{sfp create}}
Oversized parent, these would hit 133. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 06:21, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
:'''Support''' would also be a parent for {{cl|Republic of Ireland football biography stubs}}but what about {{cl|Northern Irish football biography stubs}} which is a subcat of a subcat of {{Cl|Irish people stubs}}. [[User:Waacstats|Waacstats]] 00:41, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
::If you can tell me exactly what the scope of {{cl|Irish people}} is (other than "deeply muddled"), I might be able to answer that. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 05:20, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
{{sfd bottom}}
===Euro political party sub-types===
*{{cl|Former Yugoslav political party stubs}} 133
*{{cl|Scandinavian political party stubs}} 91
I realize we normally avoid semi-arbitrary conglomerations of countries, but these two ''do'' have permcats (though with stray capitalisation, which makes me wonder just how well-thought out they actually are). Otherwise, we might look at carving up the continent by UN geoscheme sub-region. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 06:11, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
:Possibly the Scandanavian one, but a quick glance at {{cl|Europe political party stubs}} convinces me that there is some considerable undersorting into the existing subtypes. In any case, the former Yugoslav one should be considered only after all other options have been exhausted. <span style="font-family:cursive">[[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]]</span> [[User_talk:Caerwine|<small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred">Caer’s whines</small>]] 07:14, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. I don't see the relevance in the "Scandinavia" group (without going into that the defintion of this groups is still a bit tricky). Scandinavians understand each other peoples' languages and have similar cultures but that's about it. There is next to no policy coordination between the Nordic countries and no formal bonds between the parties either. The Nordic Council never had any power and it will never get it. [[User:Valentinian|Valentinian]] <sup>[[User_talk:Valentinian|T]] / [[Special:Contributions/Valentinian|C]]</sup> 15:17, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
===Bird sub-types===
Line 74 ⟶ 105:
:::{{tl|criminologist-stub}} could be merged into {{tl|criminology-stub}}. {{tl|law-enforcement-stub}}, {{tl|forensics-stub}}, and {{tl|prison-stub}} would be subcategories of {{tl|criminal-justice-stub}}. If really necessary, I could probably find 30-60 stubs to create for each... the topic is that underrepresented. But don't have the time to do that now, and it's better to do them more gradually. And such arbitrary requirements are just that... arbitrary. For now, I just won't bother tagging them as stubs, because lumping all these together under {{tl|crime-stub}}, especially for criminology topics, is not useful for people working on the articles. --[[User:Aude|Aude]] <small>([[User talk:Aude|talk]])</small> 21:49, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
:::: I think the first task is to sort the crime stub articles into the 5 (or more) existing categories, then see how many are have left over, since Carewine mentioned there are 450 undersorted crime stubs, a good sort may clean it right up into good condition again? [[User:Goldenrowley|Goldenrowley]] 05:03, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
{{sfd bottom}}
==={{tl|China-geo-stub}} further split, Alai solution===
{{sfp top|East China, Southwest China, North China, Northeast China, Anhui, Guangdong, and Zhejiang geo stubs all proposed. No clear outcome.}}
We've already split off South Central China geography stubs into a category which contains five templates for the provinces in the region, and that's done something to reduce the PRC geography stubs. However, the main cat is still at five pages - slightly less than 1,000 stubs. I propose furthering the Alai solution by adding four more categories: East China geography stubs, Southwest China geography stubs, North China geography stubs, and Northeast China geography stubs. Only the Northwest region is not ready for a split - for all of the others I simply stopped counting at 65, and I stopped at letter "L" so there would be quite a bit remaining. This would save a lot of work down the road and get the category under control. Along with that, I propose making the Anhui, Guangdong, and Zhejiang geography stubs subcategories of the relevant regions. [[User:Aelfthrytha|Aelfthrytha]] 13:03, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
*Sounds reasonable. With any luck, it may also be a step on the way to alleviating the ongoing "mainland" bickering. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''<small><font color="#008822">[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?]]</font></small>'' 00:14, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
*Support. (Eponymous support even, I suppose.) This is clearly growing quite quickly, and if it continues doing so, we may be able to just split by more of the first-order divisions before too long. I think we should probably create {{cl|Northwestern China geography stubs}} too, since it'd have an existing subcat in the form of {{cl|Xinjiang geography stubs}}. Of course, it won't so much alleviate the "mainland" bickering, as open up a second front: whichever possible parent one chooses, the other faction will complain about it (witness Instantnood showing up on my talk page recently in relation to the South Centrals). I believe I'm going to take the matter back to SFD, and perhaps if necessary DRV, to attempt to get clearer resolution one way or another. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 01:36, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
::I have to say I doubt whether this will result in any less fighting. Even in my current ___location on the island that may or may not be part of the PRC or the ROC depending on who you ask, people can't get along politically. Expect people on both sides of the strait and beyond to get along? I don't think so. [[User:Aelfthrytha|Aelfthrytha]] 04:09, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
:::I was really meaning more with HK and Macao vs "Mainland". RoC is asking too much. If the UN can't solve that, I doubt a bunch of stub sorters can. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''<small><font color="#008822">[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?]]</font></small>'' 22:53, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
::::As I was saying, it won't so much alleviate anything as... [[User:Alai|Alai]] 03:34, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. But the new categories should remain sub-cats of Category:Mainland China geography stubs in any case. Mainland China (which is commonly known simply as China) is the main part of the People's Republic of China. [[User:Michael G. Davis|Michael G. Davis]] 19:41, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
**POLLY WANT A CRACKER
*:All very well, except that "Mainland China" is an ''unofficial'' description which lends itself to all sorts of misinterpretation (is Hainan mainland China?). Also, there are no permcats for "Mainland China" (for the same reason), so there's no reason why there should be stubcats. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''<small><font color="#008822">[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?]]</font></small>'' 04:18, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
*** As far as I know "mainland China" is not unofficial. Governments use it, international organizations use it, and the press uses it, too. Hainan is mainland China. What do you mean by permcats? [[User:Michael G. Davis|Michael G. Davis]] 04:44, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
****Permcats, to quote [[Wikipedia:Glossary#Permcat]], ''A permanent category - that is, a category into which an article is assigned to aid reader navigation, as opposed to a temporary assignment relating to a process such as cleanup or stub sorting.'' [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''<small><font color="#008822">[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?]]</font></small>'' 05:06, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
*****Thank you. I created several permanent categories for mainland China, but another editor was following me all the way through, took away all articles, and requested to delete these categories. Why did it happen? By the way, Hainan has always been considered to be mainland China. [[User:Michael G. Davis|Michael G. Davis]] 07:47, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
******These categories being? Where they considered at [[WP:CFD]], or "speedied"? [[User:Alai|Alai]] 08:17, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
*******They were marked to be empty and shortly after that they were deleted. Is that what speedied means to be? [[User:Michael G. Davis|Michael G. Davis]] 12:24, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
********Creating them was discussed, and rejected. Creating them after the discussion was deleted. [[User:SchmuckyTheCat|SchmuckyTheCat]] 16:11, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
*********Can either of you please tell me ''which'' categories were deleted, whether or not they were "speedied"? [[User:Alai|Alai]] 16:43, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
**********[[:Category:Airports in mainland China]], [[:Category:Transportation in mainland China]], [[:Category:Cinema of mainland China]]. [[User:Michael G. Davis|Michael G. Davis]] 22:20, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
***********(I've taken the liberty of linkifying the above, please excuse.) These do indeed seem to have been speedied as "reposts", as nominated by StC: however, none were actually previously deleted, so I'm attempting to disentangle the story here. In the case of "airports", it seems to have started off as a proposal to rename the PRC category to MC(!), which failed, have been created anyway as {{cl|Airports of mainland China}}, featured in [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Instantnood, et al./Evidence]], and then been empty ''for a year'' before being deleted. That would at least would seem to be in "angels fear to tread" territory as far as (re)creation without some clear consensus to do so. However, if you wish to re-open those matters, please take it up with the deleting admins, at [[WP:DRV]], or at the appropriate naming convention page, and settle the matter one way or another, rather than having a "second front" on the stubcats without regard to any consistency between the two. In any case, I don't know of any past or present permanent parent to the ''geography'' stubcat, so I don't see how those assist us here. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 00:28, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
*Comment, where does [[Qinghai]] go in this scheme? Both the [[Northwest China]] and [[Southwest China]] articles claim it as part of that region. <span style="font-family:cursive">[[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]]</span> [[User_talk:Caerwine|<small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred">Caer’s whines</small>]] 17:39, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
**Oops. Those articles are certainly in need of being properly referenced, IN's certainly not wrong about that. On the basis of [http://www.usc.cuhk.edu.hk/wk_wzdetails.asp?id=1290], [http://www.chinavista.com/hyper-c/areas.html] and [http://www.worldbank.org.cn/English/content/china-environment.pdf], it appears to actually be in the NW. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 18:16, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
*All these regions are regions in mainland China. Passer-by 22:18, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
**POLLY WANT A CRACKER
**Which isn't an official sub-division, isn't an official name, and most pertinently of all, isn't how the permcats are organised. Whither {{cl|geography of mainland China}}, {{cl|Subdivisions of mainland China}}, {{cl|provinces of mainland China}}, {{cl|autonomous regions of mainland China}}, if this is such a great idea? BTW, can you please fix your signature so that it links to your user page (or user_talk: page)? Thanks. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 05:02, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
***"Mainland China" is not an unofficial terminology. It is official. I don't know why there isn't perm cat for mainland China, but it depends on different situations. Provinces and so on have their bases in the Constitution, therefore [[Category:Provinces of the People's Republic of China]] and so on. Passer-by 10:33, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
****Please explain in what contexts "mainland China" designates itself as "mainland China" for official purposes. Not when "mainland China" participates in the Olympics, say. Nor when "mainland China" issues passports. No permcat for ''this'' situation doesn't exist. The "provinces of the PRC" are quite distinct from "mainland China". If you're not going to create one, and have its existence subject to the will of the community, it makes very little sense to insist that stubs are grouped that way, seemingly solely on the basis of being able to mobilise enough "votes" at SFD and WSS/P, but not elsewhere. And, please link your signature. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 16:41, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
*****The People's Republic of China does not designate <i>itself</i> as "Mainland China". It defines the majority of itself to be "Mainland China". The People's Republic of China government, for example, releases economic and demographics figures of mainland China. Agencies of the People's Republic of China such as the Securities Regulatory Commission regulates financial activities in mainland China, whereas the People's Bank issues bank notes and coins for use in mainland China. [[User:Michael G. Davis|Michael G. Davis]] 22:20, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
******I repeat my question, which was not couched in terms of how the (entirity of the) PRC designates itself. When "mainland China" participates in the Olympics, it does so as "China". I don't know what passports issued in "mainland China" say precisely, but I'm betting it's "People's Republic of China", and not "mainland China". Your argument is that the PRC is ''in effect'' divided into three portions for any number of purposes (which I don't dispute, have never disputed, and have had IN lecturing me on for months), one of which ''ought'' to have some distinct appelation we can use, and which you wish to do so as "mainland China". But what I don't see is: any evidence this is an official ''designation'' (as opposed to an occasional description in specfic comparisons); any evidence this is the "most common name in English" for that portion; or more to the point, any established consensus on Wikipedia to name, scope and categorise things on such a basis -- and I firmly believe that stub types are entirely the wrong place to start. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 01:14, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
* '''Support''' split. Categorise the new categories under mainland China geography stubs. - [[User talk:Privacy|Privacy]] 19:09, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
**Why? [[User:Alai|Alai]] 01:14, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
*** Why should [[:Category: Mainland China geography stubs]] be deleted, skipped and ignored in the first place? - [[User talk:Privacy|Privacy]] 07:10, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
****POLLY WANT A CRACKER!
{{sfd bottom}}
| |||