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[[User:Janhrach|Janhrach]] ([[User talk:Janhrach|talk]]) 13:26, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
:{{done}}<!-- Template:ETp --> – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 14:36, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
== Problems with this module ==
I get it, semantic web shit is cool for nerds, but this doomed tech experiment is hurting Wikipedia instead of helping it. The people responsible should switch focus; their goal should be to help Wikipedia editors and not the likes of Google and LLMs and other cringe techbro buzzwords. I understand that the ideal solution, getting rid of wikidata, will not happen, so we should try to minimize the harm it is causing.
There are a bunch of problems with this module:
# This module shows errors, but it is '''not clear how to fix''' the errors unless you spend 73 hours trying to understand how it and Wikidata work. The solution should be two-fold:
#* It should be made clear on wikidata ''and'' in the article which attributes are missing/incorrect. Nota bene, currently this is explained in neither of those places. One or the other is not an acceptable solution. It should be explained in both places.
#* Someone should write a detailed tutorial/helppage. But a link to that is ''not enough''; in addition we need specific instructions which piece of data is causing the problem.
# The warning messages are '''alarmist and displayed very prominently''', even when it is an incredibly minor problem or not a real problem at all. A very large majority of the pages in [[:Category:Module:Wd_reference_errors|Category:Module:Wd reference errors]] do not have a problem that is big enough to warrant such a obnoxious warning message.
#*For example: A reference url without a title (which appears to be optional at Wikidata) is handled poorly. For comparison, <code><nowiki>{{Cite web|url=https://github.com/andresriancho/w3af/releases/tag/1.6.54}}</nowiki></code> produces:<br>[https://github.com/andresriancho/w3af/releases/tag/1.6.54 https://github.com/andresriancho/w3af/releases/tag/1.6.54]. <span style="color:#d33">{<nowiki/>{</span>[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Cite_web cite web]<span style="color:#d33">}}: Missing or empty |title= (</span>[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:CS1_errors#citation_missing_title help]<span style="color:#d33">)</span><br>That still gives a clickable reference and the red message is less prominent. <br>The Wikidata equivalent instead shows nothing. No explanation of what is wrong or how to fix it. All you get is this message that explains nothing and links to generic advice that isn't applicable:<br><span style="color:crimson">Error: Unable to display the reference properly. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Module:Wd/doc#References the documentation] for details.</span><br>
#The message '''doesn't even link to the reference URL'''.
#The message '''falsely claims it is an error''' when no error has occured. There is just a missing piece of wikidata. 99.99999% of people who see that message are not willing and able to add that piece of wikidata.
#The message '''doesn't even link to the place on Wikidata''' where the problem is.
#The message uses <span style="color:crimson">crimson</span> while other messages like the cite web template use <span style="color:#d33">#d33</span>.
This means that people would have to read and understand all that documentation, find the ___location where the reference is inserted, figure out they have to click on the pencil icon, discover an entirely new and incredibly unuserfriendly interface on a separate website and figure out how to fix the error there, then go back to the article to see if they actually managed to fix the problem, discover they have not or that there are other problems and repeat the process (newsflash: 99% of Wikipedia editors won't do all that, why are you trying to force them to).
Even if you do something that should be simple, e.g. you add an infobox to an article, you get the message and no way to fix it. For example {{tl|Infobox Swiss town}} causes problems for example in [[Lausanne]], [[Geneva]], [[Zug]], [[Montreux]], [[Bern]], [[Solothurn]] (I got too lazy to find more examples).
I understand that this is people's baby and the WMF probably wasted a fuckton of money on it; but it should be clear that this is a net negative for 99% of editors at the moment. Things used to be so simple. More complexity is not an improvement. [[User:Polygnotus|Polygnotus]] ([[User talk:Polygnotus|talk]]) 04:00, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
:That is quite a rant. I agree with one point, at least. In [[Lausanne]], reference #2 displays "Error: Unable to display the reference properly. See the documentation for details." instead of displaying "https://www.pxweb.bfs.admin.ch/pxweb/fr/px-x-0102020000_201/-/px-x-0102020000_201.px/table/tableViewLayout2/?rxid=c5985c8d-66cd-446c-9a07-d8cc07276160", which is the source that supports the population figure. Showing only the error message is unhelpful. Showing the URL along with a more explanatory error message would be helpful; something like "Error: url requires title in Wikidata" (with a link to the relevant section of P1082 in the article's Wikidata entry) might lead ambitious editors to fix the actual problem. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 04:26, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
:{{ping|Polygnotus}} On the problems you listed:
:# The relevant section is four-paragraph-long. While it doesn't directly describe how to fix a reference, it makes it clear when is the error printed. Everyone who doesn't understand can ask on this page. Yes, the messages could refer to specific parts of the reference which are invalid, I will work on that later. Note: this module is not directly related to Wikidata as a project, it is a <u>Wikipedia module</u> for rendering data.
:# Yes, the messages should be more specific. As for the messages being too alarmist, see [[Module talk:wd/Archive 1#Reference formatting bug when using "author name string" (P2093)|this discussion]]. [[User:Trappist the monk]] wanted an error message if the reference is not renderable using CS1, and I agree with them.
:# See 2.
:# See 2.
:# Ok, this should also be fixed.
:# This is a minor issue fixable with an edit request.
:In the end, all good arguments against Module:Wd can be summarized into following:
::The error massage should be more specific.
:Right now, I do not spend much time editing Wikipedia. The reference handling function should be cleaned up first. To fix it, it is needed to fix the testcases.
:[[User:Janhrach|Janhrach]] ([[User talk:Janhrach|talk]]) 13:04, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
::The citation (reference #2 in [[Lausanne]]) is renderable using {{tl|cite web}}, though. It looks like this:
::
::{{cite web|url=https://www.pxweb.bfs.admin.ch/pxweb/fr/px-x-0102020000_201/-/px-x-0102020000_201.px/table/tableViewLayout2/?rxid=c5985c8d-66cd-446c-9a07-d8cc07276160}}
::
::The error message is incorrect. This basic problem is not yet fixed. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 14:44, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Jonesey95}} By "renderable using CS1", I meant without errors. Also, I mentioned the phrase only in the last comment. The documentation is more specific.
:::I know the error message should say what extra properties does the reference contain, or which needed properties it does not, but I will fix that later. Maybe the module should leave reporting a missing title for now, as a temporary solution. [[User:Janhrach|Janhrach]] ([[User talk:Janhrach|talk]]) 14:59, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
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