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::::::{{tq|Traditional ID advocates never tried to add non-anti evolutionists into their group}} Creation scientists did. They made lists of creationists including Newton, Linnaeus and lots of other pre-Darwin scientists that never had a chance to take of position on evolution because they never heard of it. But all this is beside the point. Just don't gather random people and call them ID.
::::::I am ignoring your fallacy claims because it would take forever and they are beside the point of this page. --[[User:Hob Gadling|Hob Gadling]] ([[User talk:Hob Gadling|talk]]) 12:00, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
:::::::But, that's not OR. It would counts as OR if some drastic information was added which would require compelling evidences to be valid. (For example, if I gave a description of his childhood without adding any sources) There's nothing wrong with applying definitions and lack of it will create confusions (like how you initially claimed that Plantinga is an anti-evolutionist because of the label of ID even though that is wrong). Applying definitions are important especially when things are ambiguous and nuanced. For example, in the article [[The eclipse of Darwinism|eclipse of Darwinism]], there is a note clarifying the difference between 19th century "theistic evolution" and modern theistic evolution because these two things actually are different and refer to different things. That honestly makes Wikipedia itself un-trustable with it's information if words and labels were accepted as mere face value.
:::::::Also, I know that ID advocates try to put pre-Darwinian scientists into their lists, but that's different. My statement only applies to post-Darwinian era. They wouldn't tolerate anyone who accepts evolution or thinks that it is compatible. [[User:Asaduzzaman Khan Shahriar|Asaduzzaman Khan Shahriar]] ([[User talk:Asaduzzaman Khan Shahriar|talk]]) 13:03, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
::Except Hoyle's argument very specifically supports an intelligent designer who designed things without starting with [[abiogenesis]]. Since it is an argument against abiogenesis, it makes sense to put the argument here. On the other hand, Plantinga's argument is specifically against metaphysical naturalism. And it cannot be and has never been used against evolution in any way. So, it doesn't logically belong here. The article itself makes it clear that it is an argument against metaphysical naturalism and not evolution. So, it doesn't make sense to put it here at all. It belongs to the article [[Naturalism (philosophy)|naturalism]]. [[User:Asaduzzaman Khan Shahriar|Asaduzzaman Khan Shahriar]] ([[User talk:Asaduzzaman Khan Shahriar|talk]]) 09:02, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
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