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:::Since the Earth receives energy from the Sun, see [[dissipative system]]. A Nobel prize was granted for that idea. [[User:tgeorgescu|tgeorgescu]] ([[User talk:tgeorgescu|talk]]) 20:02, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
:In the ten years since your first attempt at inserting creationist pseudoscience into the article, neither physics nor biology have changed enough to make evolution suddenly contradict the Second Law. --[[User:Hob Gadling|Hob Gadling]] ([[User talk:Hob Gadling|talk]]) 08:58, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
::The Rosenhouse reply to the objection is curious. "The fact is that natural forces routinely lead to local decreases in entropy. Water freezes into ice and fertilised eggs turn into babies. Plants use sunlight to convert carbon dioxide and water into sugar and oxygen, but [we do] not invoke divine intervention to explain the process ... thermodynamics offers nothing to dampen our confidence in Darwinism."
::However, at room temperature and pressure, ice melts to water as heat energy is absorbed from the surroundings, there is less order, increased entropy. In plants, energy input in the form of sunlight produces growth, more order and reduced entropy. Removing heat energy from water freezes water into ice resulting in more order and decreased entropy. Removing sunlight energy from plants results in death and decay, decreased order and increased entropy. That "Natural forces" lead to contrasting results in inorganic and organic open systems presents a question, not an answer.
::"The article brings out: "Organisms are open systems as they constantly exchange energy and matter with their environment." Because plants and animals are open systems, entropy changes in isolated systems are not relevant. Why is this straightforward answer not given as the answer?
::If the issue is increases in order bring negative changes in entropy, the Gibbs free energy equation shows enthalpy (energy) input is able to offset unfavorable change in entropy.
::The objection is addressed, without a reference, by an unusual assertion: "The second law of thermodynamics applies only to isolated systems." Then the second law does not apply to plants and animals as they are open systems: therefore, they are able to grow in size and complexity. However, these same organisms later mature, decline, die and decay in agreement with the second law. The second law clearly applies to plants and animals as open systems and not only to isolated systems. A physics text book states: "The general statement of the second law of thermodynamics is "the total entropy of any system plus that of its environment increases as a result of any natural process."* "Any system" would include open, closed or isolated systems.
::The article also notes "Since Earth receives energy from the Sun, it is an open system." If the second law applies only to isolated systems, then it follows that the second law does not apply to Earth, which is absurd. That the second law applies to Earth is self-evident; everywhere there is evidence of ruins. decay, wear, corrosion,...
::Realizing energy into open systems lowers entropy in organisms but increases entropy in inorganic systems warrants an explanation. Some order such as cyclones and long chain polymers occurs in inorganic systems; however, that degree of order pales in comparison to that of plants and animals. Biological macromolecules such as DNA, and other carriers of genetic code are present only in plants and animals. Their presence could account for plants and animals apparently violating, then following the second law in open systems. Their origin is an enigma.
::At the moment, Wikipedia is informing its readers: "The second law of thermodynamics applies only to isolated systems," which is contradicted by physics, logically absurd, unsubstantiated and lacking a reference, LEBOLTZMANN2
::* Physics, Principle with Applications, SIXTH EDITION, p. 425, D.C Giancoli, Prentice Hall, Upper Saddle River, New Jersey,1998
::[[Special:Contributions/71.163.186.151|71.163.186.151]] ([[User talk:71.163.186.151|talk]]) 21:49, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
== Plantinga ==
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