Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Images to improve/Archive/Jul 2008: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 08:24, 6 July 2008

Revision as of 07:04, 7 July 2008

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:Any takers? '''[[User:Mangwanani|<font color="green">Mangwanani</font>]]''' ^{[[User talk:Mangwanani|<font color="green">(talk)</font>]]} 16:15, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

==Personal Standard of Prince Albert II of Monaco==

{{Stale|1=[[User:DyceBot|DyceBot]] ([[User talk:DyceBot|talk]]) 07:05, 29 June 2008 (UTC)}}

<center><gallery>

Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg|[[:Image:Albertii.gif]] Original image from Monaco web site

</gallery></center>

'''Article(s): '''[[Albert II, Prince of Monaco]] ; [[Flag of Monaco]] ; [[Gallery of flags with headgear]]

'''Request:''' The .png standard is derived from the original image. I think you cannot do anything about the princely crown, too small on the original but both "A"s are connected together in quite a different way. Can something be done about it ? [[User:Hektor|Hektor]] ([[User talk:Hektor|talk]]) 21:15, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

'''Graphist opinion:''':

How about an SVG? I can give it a go when I'm on the right computer later... '''[[User:Mangwanani|<font color="green">Mangwanani</font>]]''' ^{[[User talk:Mangwanani|<font color="green">(talk)</font>]]} 12:20, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

:: I hate to be the one to bring it up, but the image is fair use so it shouldn't really be here... On the other hand I don't see that SVGifying it would do any harm. [[User:Time3000|Time3000]] ([[User talk:Time3000|talk]]) 14:29, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

::: What is the track record of fair use raster to svgs surviving? I would think it's clearly a violation of the terms of (fair) use, since you can scale it to any resolution you like. We had this discussion about the Interpol logo, and it didn't fly. [[User:Dhatfield|Dhatfield]] ([[User talk:Dhatfield|talk]]) 14:52, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

::::Question A : The second file is in Commons, so it clearly is not fair use ? Or it should not be in Commons ? Or can we just correct the second file to the right shape, and keep it in .png format (no .svg) so that it remains non scalable... ?

::::Question B : what is the logic behind the following template then:[[User:Hektor|Hektor]] ([[User talk:Hektor|talk]]) 15:19, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

{{imbox

| imageright = [[Image:Converted to SVG.svg|60px]]

| type = style

| text = This fairuse image was [[Wikipedia:Uploading images|uploaded]] in a '''[[Raster graphics|raster]] image format''' such as [[Portable Network Graphics|PNG]], [[Graphics Interchange Format|GIF]], or [[JPEG]]. However, it contains information that could be stored more efficiently and/or accurately in the '''[[Scalable Vector Graphics|SVG]] format''', as a [[Vector graphics|vector graphic]].<br>

<small>If possible, please upload an SVG version of this image. After doing so, please replace all instances of the previous version throughout Wikipedia (noted under the “[[#filelinks|File links]]” header), tag the old version with <code>{{[[Template:Vector version available|Vector version available]]|<i>NewImage</i>.svg}}</code>, and remove this tag. For more information, see [[Wikipedia:Preparing images for upload]]. For assistance with converting to SVG, please see the [[Wikipedia:Graphic Lab|Graphics Lab]].</small>

}}

:::::As far as I'm aware you can have SVG free use. Such images do exist on the wiki...'''[[User:Mangwanani|<font color="green">Mangwanani</font>]]''' ^{[[User talk:Mangwanani|<font color="green">(talk)</font>]]} 15:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

::::::I'm guessing the second file should not be on commons. There is no free way (i.e. non derivative) of doing the monogram. /[[:User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 17:54, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

:::::::If you are right, that it is forbidden to do a .SVG from a fair use .gif, the template above <nowiki>{{SVG|fairuse}}</nowiki> should be deleted, since it serves no purpose. [[User:Hektor|Hektor]] ([[User talk:Hektor|talk]]) 18:06, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

::::::::All I'm saying is that an svg (or png) designed from a fair use image remains copyrighted by the copyright holder of the fair use image. Whether the new image qualifies for fair use or not I don't know. /[[:User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 18:25, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::So it is allowed to do a .png out of it, upload it on English language wikipedia claiming fair use - since it is non scalable contrary to .svg - , not uploading it to Commons ? Can I ask for that here ? and what about a .svg ? [[User:Hektor|Hektor]] ([[User talk:Hektor|talk]]) 18:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

::::::::::Just had a thought, could this be recreated in SVG freely in the similar style a flag or COA can be? What I'm thinking is of calling this a flag as surely, its used in that style, similar to the [[:Image:Royal Standard of the United Kingdom.svg|Queen's standard]] '''[[User:Mangwanani|<font color="green">Mangwanani</font>]]''' ^{[[User talk:Mangwanani|<font color="green">(talk)</font>]]} 18:51, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::::The differences between CoAs and this image is that CoAs are defined by a [[blazon]]. That means that a free version can be created from the blazon (not from an existing interpretation of it which is why [[:Image:Coat of Arms of Iceland.svg]] is in trouble). Simply recreating an image in svg does not delink the svg image from the copyright of the original, this is why images such as Coat of Arms of Johannesburg above are in trouble. /[[:User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 12:29, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::::: As I understand it the template <nowiki>{{SVG|fairuse}}</nowiki> is indeed a completely pointless contradiction. "...information that could be stored more efficiently and/or accurately in the SVG format". While arguably technically true, functionally nonsense. The fair use rationale stipulates that the image must be low-res. So even if you make a vector version you still have to ''render'' it in low res. The "efficiency" difference between a 30kB PNG and a 20kB SVG is negligible, and the rendering resources needed for SVG do away with that benefit. Accuracy is irrelevant, because you still have to ''deliver it to the viewer'' at low accuracy (ie. low res). Someone could download it themselves and view it in high res, but then ''they'd'' be in violation of fair use. No matter which way you slice or dice it that template is an invitation to waste your time. [[User:Dhatfield|Dhatfield]] ([[User talk:Dhatfield|talk]]) 18:17, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

::::::::::::: Now you give me doubts about <nowiki>{{SVG-Trademark}}</nowiki> as well... [[User:Hektor|Hektor]] ([[User talk:Hektor|talk]]) 18:24, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

{{SVG-Trademark}}

:::::::::::::: That being said, I'd be most thankful if someone cares to produce a nice fair use .PNG of the standard of Prince Albert II. [[User:Hektor|Hektor]] ([[User talk:Hektor|talk]]) 18:27, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::Find a blazon and create the image springs to mind, bearing in mind the cliché "easier said than done". The Joburg raster was uploaded by Flagmanbruce who says he is the FOTW Southern Africa administrator (for want of a better word). '''[[User:Mangwanani|<font color="green">Mangwanani</font>]]''' ^{[[User talk:Mangwanani|<font color="green">(talk)</font>]]} 19:41, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

:But thats just the thing. Coat of arms (and coat of arms like flags) have a blasoning, logos and monograms normaly don't, thus making free versions of the impossible. The Joburg raster is the same as that [http://flagspot.net/flags/za-gt-jb.html#jb here] and is thus not an "original interpretation of the blason" but rather a copyrighted interpretation from 1997. The fact that Flagmanbruce has scanned it gives him no copyrightrelated rights. Thus since the new vector version are a derivative of these they are also copyrighted by whoever created the raster. In order to create a truly free image the new one would have to based only on heraldic rules and the text:

{{quotation|ARMS: Vert, a fret couped Or, the mascle voided Gules, between in chief and base respectively four shield thongs Argent; behind the shield a spine erect Or, plumed Sable.

SUPPORTERS: Two young lions Or, armed and langued Gules, each gorged of a beaded collar dancetty throughout Gules and Azure, the triangles fimbriated Or.

SPECIAL COMPARTMENT: A ground, the flanks Azure and the centre Sable, separated from one another by means of narrow piles inverted, Argent.

MOTTO: UNITY IN DEVELOPMENT.}}

:The new image would have to be created without any regard to the "official" interreation in [[:Image:Jhb Arms.jpg]]. As it is now the new vector versions (although nice and impressive) are fair use at best and should probably not be on Commons. /[[:User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 22:07, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

::Shoot, that needs translation into English. I couldn't draw anything from ''that'' description, that's for sure. [[User:MissMJ|MissMJ]] ([[User talk:MissMJ|talk]]) 22:38, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Back to the Joburg Arms, it isn't entirely based on the raster. My trace obviously was but the rest of the work done by other users was an interpretation of the raster... '''[[User:Mangwanani|<font color="green">Mangwanani</font>]]''' ^{[[User talk:Mangwanani|<font color="green">(talk)</font>]]} 15:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

:I know it isn't entirely based on the raster (let's call it the "official interpretation") but both the trace and iterpretations of the "official interpretation" are processes which create works that are derivatives of the "official interpretation", and those covered by it's copyright. As an example if you watch all of the Star Wars movies and then draw a free hand sketch of the Millenium Falcon then that is stil a derivative of the copyrighted movies.

:What's needed in order to make the image free is basically that you completely forget about the "official interpretation" and do a new image based on the blazon only. As for the blazonings being written in code I wholehartedly agree, it's hard enough to understand them when they are written entierly in one language (swedish for the ones I've done) but the english ones always seem to contain about 50% french in them. There is a heraldic glossary somewhere on Wikipedia (lost the link) but to start I'd recommend asking one of the heraldicaly experienced editors to translate the description to plain english (e.g. [[:commons:User:SanchoPanzaXXI|SanchoPanzaXXI]]), after a while you'll start understanding the ''code''.

:Anyhow this discussion (although important especially for a graphics lab) seems to have trailed of from the original discussion about the Monaco monogram. /[[:User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 12:15, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

::But I speak French and I still don't get them. o_O Silly business this whole coat of arms thing is. [[User:MissMJ|MissMJ]] ([[User talk:MissMJ|talk]]) 21:59, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

:::[[:Template:Blazon]] Is a good starting point for translating the words. Yes CoAs are a complicated business but it's an oportunity to create freely licensed alternatives to copyrighted images which is always nice. /[[:User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 00:00, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

=Resolved=

==Burmese language requests==

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'''Graphist opinion:'''

==Ceylon==

{{Resolved|1=[[User:Kintetsubuffalo|Chris (クリス • フィッチ)]] ([[User talk:Kintetsubuffalo|talk]]) 08:25, 3 July 2008 (UTC)}}.

<center><gallery>

Image:Coat of arms Ceylon dominion.jpg

Image:Coat of arms of Sri Lanka.svg|The current coat: Get the lion and maybe the inner circle pattern off of here.

Image:Coat of Arms Ceylon dominion.svg|Most of it

</gallery></center>

'''Article(s):''' [[Coat of arms of Sri Lanka]]

'''Request:''' SVGify -- [[User:Kintetsubuffalo|Chris (クリス • フィッチ)]] ([[User talk:Kintetsubuffalo|talk]]) 21:28, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

'''Graphist opinion:'''

Couldn't elements from [[:Image:Coat_of_arms_of_Sri_Lanka.svg]] be used instead of tracing this entirely? Or does it need to look older/different from the current CoA...? I'll do a little work; if anyone else decides to work on this, please post. [[User:James1293|James1293]] ([[User talk:James1293|talk]]) 20:00, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

:I can't speak for the original requester, but the lion could probably be taken from the current coat without much trouble. [[Special:Contributions/68.39.174.238|68.39.174.238]] ([[User talk:68.39.174.238|talk]]) 14:24, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

::I would be okay with that if someone wants to cannibalize other images. [[User:Kintetsubuffalo|Chris (クリス • フィッチ)]] ([[User talk:Kintetsubuffalo|talk]]) 01:13, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

:::The Sri Lankan coat of arms svg is being screwy and I can't open it in Illustrator. If anyone can do it, you can copy the lion from that and stick it in the center. This is mostly done, but I don't speak whatever language is used in the banner so I don't feel confident tracing the letterforms; I can't figure out what a lot of the proper strokes would be and I don't want to accidentally spell something wrong. xD [[User:MissMJ|MissMJ]] ([[User talk:MissMJ|talk]]) 02:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

::::I'll try to incorporate the lion. The text is [[Tamil language|Tamil]] (left) and [[Sinhalese language|Sinhala]] (center), it's definitely ''Lanka'' in Sinhala but I'm not sure about the Tamil part. [[User:Fvasconcellos|Fvasconcellos]]<small>&nbsp;([[User talk:Fvasconcellos|t]]·[[Special:Contributions/Fvasconcellos|c]])</small> 14:37, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

:::::The Tamil is "இலங்கை". [[Special:Contributions/68.39.174.238|68.39.174.238]] ([[User talk:68.39.174.238|talk]]) 21:15, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

::::::You can get the Sinhala from [[:si:%E0%B7%81%E0%B7%8A%E2%80%8D%E0%B6%BB%E0%B7%93_%E0%B6%BD%E0%B6%82%E0%B6%9A%E0%B7%8F%E0%B7%80]]. [[Special:Contributions/68.39.174.238|68.39.174.238]] ([[User talk:68.39.174.238|talk]]) 21:21, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

::Added the lion. Managed to add the text as well but I'm not 100% "ලංකා" (in the center) is right. Also please feel free to improve the text alignment. The visible text is converted to paths but a unconverted backup exists to the left of the image (outside the displayed area)./[[:User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 00:40, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

:Thank you so much for picking this back up! :) [[User:Kintetsubuffalo|Chris (クリス • フィッチ)]] ([[User talk:Kintetsubuffalo|talk]]) 03:22, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

::Done, thank you for finishing this! [[User:Kintetsubuffalo|Chris (クリス • フィッチ)]] ([[User talk:Kintetsubuffalo|talk]]) 08:25, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

:::No problems. Does anyone know where the CoA to the right in [http://whom.co.uk/squelch/fe07.jpg this image] comes into the picture? /[[:User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 11:06, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interesting! I never saw that before! Perhaps a different proposal from 1972? [[User:Kintetsubuffalo|Chris (クリス • フィッチ)]] ([[User talk:Kintetsubuffalo|talk]]) 13:58, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

==Carpentry Stub==

{{resolved|1=[[User:XcepticZP|XcepticZP]] ([[User talk:XcepticZP|talk]]) 14:52, 3 July 2008 (UTC)}}

<center><gallery>

Image:Smoothing_plane_drawing.png|Smoothing plane drawing.

Image:Smoothing_plane_drawing.svg|SVG

</gallery></center>

<references/>

'''Article(s):''' [[:Template:Woodworking-stub|Woodworking stubs template]] and woodworking templates.

'''Request:''' Can this be converted to an svg. Or perhaps a similar woodworking-type svg found to replace it? Thank you. [[User:XcepticZP|XcepticZP]] ([[User talk:XcepticZP|talk]]) 08:48, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

'''Graphist opinion:'''

:Although not svg I think there might be better images in [[:commons:Category:Planers]]. /[[:User:Lokal Profil|Lokal]][[Special:Contributions/Lokal Profil|_]][[:User talk:Lokal Profil|Profil]] 13:45, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

:I did a quick trace in Inkscape, just using the default settings. Added a white background while I was at it. —[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] <small>([[User talk:Ilmari Karonen|talk]])</small> 23:13, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

::Notifying requester so this isn't archived as "Stale" without further input... [[Special:Contributions/68.39.174.238|68.39.174.238]] ([[User talk:68.39.174.238|talk]]) 21:32, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

:::Looks great. Thanks [[User:XcepticZP|XcepticZP]] ([[User talk:XcepticZP|talk]]) 14:52, 3 July 2008 (UTC)