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== mention office suites ==
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Would someone be willing to add one? [[User:STufaro|STufaro]] ([[User talk:STufaro|talk]]) 01:08, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
== Intro ==
So, which is the better first sentence for this article?
:"'''Cloud computing''' is a term which is used to refer to the use of [[scalability|scalable]], [[real-time]], [[Internet]]-based [[information technology]] services and resources."
or:
:"'''Cloud computing''' is [[Internet]] ("cloud") based development and use of computer technology ("[[computing]]")."
[[User:Letdorf|Letdorf]] ([[User talk:Letdorf|talk]]) 10:31, 16 January 2009 (UTC).
: The first one is about SOA+utility computing, and the second one doesn't say anything at all... "The key distinction [between cloud and utility] ends up being around changes in the way you architect software, and changes in the way you architect the work being done." --[http://arstechnica.com/guides/other/hp-cloud-computing-interview.ars Russ Daniels] [[User:Tdanecker|Tdanecker]] ([[User talk:Tdanecker|talk]]) 11:15, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
::Okay.... so Mr Daniels says cloud computing is like utility computing, but "architected differently". Should that affect the introductory sentence in this article? [[User:Letdorf|Letdorf]] ([[User talk:Letdorf|talk]]) 13:27, 20 January 2009 (UTC).
: The original (second) definition is at least accurate, if lacking in precision. The proposed replacement is incorrect in that cloud computing does not have to be scalable (but it often is) nor real-time (think [http://open.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/21/the-new-york-times-archives-amazon-web-services-timesmachine/ batch jobs]). A good deal of time and effort went into boiling the many definitions into one compatible consensus view and this was the (generally accepted) result.
Here are a handful of references that [http://www.google.com/search?q=cloud+computing+"based+development+and+use+of+computer+technology" approve of this definition]:
* [http://www.wallstreetandtech.com/it-infrastructure/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=212700913 Cloud Computing Begins to Gain Traction on Wall Street]
* [http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/linux-lotus-domino/tag/cloud-computing/ The difference between Cloud Computing and SaaS]
* [http://bi.cbronline.com/comment/is_the_enterprise_ready_for_cloud_computing_291008 Is the Enterprise Ready for Cloud Computing?]
* [http://www.mobilemarketer.com/cms/news/software-technology/2414.html Soonr brings cloud computing to the iPhone]
* [http://www.top10dedicatedhosting.com/en/?p=374 Cloud Computing Technology Providers and Contributors in 2008-2009]
* [http://www.cyop.net/cloud_computing.html http://www.cyop.net/cloud_computing.html]
* [http://thenextweb.com/2008/10/27/windows-azure-a-clear-perspective-on-cloud-computing/ Windows Azure: A clear perspective on cloud computing]
Please talk first rather than reverting reverts in future, but feel free to expand on the base definition using the best references you can find (extracting signal from the noise can be difficult). -- <u style="text-decoration:none; font-family: papyrus;">[[User:SamJohnston|samj]] <small><sub><font color="maroon">[[User talk:Samj|in]]</font></sub><sup><font color="green">[[Special:Contributions/SamJohnston|out]]</font></sup></small></u> 20:13, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Oops - I just realised the definition wasn't referenced... it is now. -- <u style="text-decoration:none; font-family: papyrus;">[[User:SamJohnston|samj]] <small><sub><font color="maroon">[[User talk:Samj|in]]</font></sub><sup><font color="green">[[Special:Contributions/SamJohnston|out]]</font></sup></small></u> 20:19, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
: I'm not sure what you're saying here - are you claiming that the validity of a definition given in a WP article can be measured by the number of journalists who are lazy enough to cut'n'paste from said article?! I'm sorry, but the phrase ''Internet ("cloud") based development and use of computer technology ("computing")'' is far too vague a definition, IMHO. Lots of "computer technology" is developed and/or used via the Internet, but little of it could be considered "cloud computing", even in the most general sense. For instance, is downloading a file by FTP or accessing a remote CVS repository "cloud computing"? Both would fit that definition.
:: This is a recurrent discussion, but yes, from a user-centric PoV if they can consume raw (FTP, eg [http://www.nirvanix.com/FTPProxy.aspx CloudNAS]) or 'enhanced' (CVS) storage without having to concern themselves with the inner workings then sure it fits; finally we're starting to look at computing from the user's point of view rather than having technology for the sake of technology. -- <u style="text-decoration:none; font-family: papyrus;">[[User:SamJohnston|samj]] <small><sub><font color="maroon">[[User talk:Samj|in]]</font></sub><sup><font color="green">[[Special:Contributions/SamJohnston|out]]</font></sup></small></u> 12:04, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
::: When I mentioned FTP or CVS, I meant the kinds of things people were using the Internet for more than 20 years ago; before "Web 1.0", never mind "Web 2.0". That was still "Internet-based development and use of computer technology". [[User:Letdorf|Letdorf]] ([[User talk:Letdorf|talk]]) 00:28, 24 January 2009 (UTC).
: The "scalable" and "real-time" qualifiers came from the InfoWorld article I cited, which seemed like a pretty good introduction to the subject [[User:Letdorf|Letdorf]] ([[User talk:Letdorf|talk]]) 21:28, 20 January 2009 (UTC).
::If it's that good a resource then add it to the external links, and refine the base definition accordingly. I maintain that neither ''real-time'' nor ''scalable'' are requisites for cloud computing but that's not to stop them being used as examples. -- <u style="text-decoration:none; font-family: papyrus;">[[User:SamJohnston|samj]] <small><sub><font color="maroon">[[User talk:Samj|in]]</font></sub><sup><font color="green">[[Special:Contributions/SamJohnston|out]]</font></sup></small></u> 12:04, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
:Furthermore, of the two references now given for the current first sentence, one explicitly quotes this article(!), and the other is dated January 6 this year, so is highly likely to have been a cut'n'paste from this article. Indirect self-references are obviously ''not'' valid references! (see [[WP:RS]]). [[User:Letdorf|Letdorf]] ([[User talk:Letdorf|talk]]) 21:46, 20 January 2009 (UTC).
::The articles were selected because they assessed/validated the definition rather than just regurgitating it. In any case I've added a whitepaper on the subject which goes into more detail. Given the InfoWorld article predates [http://cloudcomputing.sys-con.com/node/612375 most of the discussion] around the definition, more recent articles better reflect the consensus of the community. -- <u style="text-decoration:none; font-family: papyrus;">[[User:SamJohnston|samj]] <small><sub><font color="maroon">[[User talk:Samj|in]]</font></sub><sup><font color="green">[[Special:Contributions/SamJohnston|out]]</font></sup></small></u> 12:04, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
::: So now there are three refs for the opening statement; they're all dated December 2008 or January 2009, contain phrases that are suspiciously similar to this article around the same dates and hence are almost certainly ''indirect self-references''. These are fundamentally wrong by the rules of WP! [[User:Letdorf|Letdorf]] ([[User talk:Letdorf|talk]]) 00:28, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
::Ok so I've gone over the article and references again and while not an absolute requirement I agree that some reference to "agile, scalable infrastructure", real-time scalability, etc. is useful so I've expanded the intro paragraph accordingly. I hope you are more satisfied with the result now. -- <u style="text-decoration:none; font-family: papyrus;">[[User:SamJohnston|samj]] <small><sub><font color="maroon">[[User talk:Samj|in]]</font></sub><sup><font color="green">[[Special:Contributions/SamJohnston|out]]</font></sup></small></u> 12:31, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
:::Okay, to recap, in the absence of any further objection, I'm proposing deleting the first sentence (apart from the obvious "Cloud computing is...") on the grounds that (a) it doesn't really add anything to the current first paragraph and (b) as I say above, the references given appear to be indirect self-references. [[User:Letdorf|Letdorf]] ([[User talk:Letdorf|talk]]) 17:17, 28 January 2009 (UTC).
:::: The first sentence defines cloud computing; the remainder expands on that definition. You may not like that it's a broad definition, but at least it is accurate; your proposal (real-time, scalable, etc.) is clearly and demonstrably not. As I explained to you above, the three references are not self references but I'll copy the relevant parts here so you can see for yourself:
::::*"Here's why cloud computing — loosely defined as Internet-based development and use of computer technology — has a future and the likely reason why Ellison doesn't like it: Cloud-based services so far are cheaper than traditional IT products, such as large in-house databases."
::::*"Answers to the most complicated computing tasks are found in the clouds. Not the clouds in the sky that shower rain but clouds that deliver a super computing power on the internet. Cloud computing is the development and use of computer technology using the internet."
::::*"Cloud computing refers to the use of Internet-based (i.e. Cloud) computer technology for a variety of services (including storage capacity, processing power, business applications or components)."
:::: The intro has been discussed to death already and we've finally found something that's been stable for months, except that every once in a while someone wanders in and insists on foisting their narrow view on the rest of us. Enough already. -- <u style="text-decoration:none; font-family: papyrus;">[[User:SamJohnston|samj]] <small><sub><font color="maroon">[[User talk:Samj|in]]</font></sub><sup><font color="green">[[Special:Contributions/SamJohnston|out]]</font></sup></small></u> 00:58, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
:::: FWIW, the intro has been discussed [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Cloud_computing/Archive_1#Introductory_sub_section here] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Cloud_computing/Archive_1#Introduction here] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Cloud_computing/Archive_1#Introduction_opaque here] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Cloud_computing/Archive_1#Introduction_paragraph here] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Cloud_computing#Intro here] so you can see why I'm bored already... no offense. -- <u style="text-decoration:none; font-family: papyrus;">[[User:SamJohnston|samj]] <small><sub><font color="maroon">[[User talk:Samj|in]]</font></sub><sup><font color="green">[[Special:Contributions/SamJohnston|out]]</font></sup></small></u> 01:03, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
::::: I'm not really interested in foisting any narrow view on anybody; I'm quite willing to debate whether "real-time" or "scalable" or anything else are defining attributes of cloud computing. What I am interested in is trying to improve an opening sentence that gives a near-meaningless definition which doesn't distinguish cloud computing from pretty much ''anything'' you would use the Internet for, and a bunch of supporting references which appear to me to have used ''this very article'' as their ''own'' source.
:::::Having said that, the somewhat different definition you quote from page 4 of the Micro Focus white paper is rather more specific and does seem at least partly original - IMHO, this would be a better one to use. [[User:Letdorf|Letdorf]] ([[User talk:Letdorf|talk]]) 12:45, 2 February 2009 (UTC).
Wait, you guys cannot be serious - this is somehow better than what was there before? Software Applications? Mobile Enterprise? WTF?:
<blockquote>
'''Cloud computing''' is the use of [[computer data storage]], [[central processing units]], [[business application]]s, [[web applications]] or [[software application]]s, via the [[Internet]], as well as [[software development tools]] and associated [[software architecture]] components like message queues.<ref>[http://architects.dzone.com/articles/cloud-computing-platform-compa Cloud Computing Platform Comparison: (part 1)]</ref><ref>{{cite paper
| first = Mark
| last = Haynie
| title = Enterprise Cloud Services: Deriving Business Value from Cloud Computing
| date = 2008-12-07
| pages = p. 4
| publisher = Micro Focus
| url = http://cloudservices.microfocus.com/main/uploaded/doc/MFECS-WP-deriving-business-value.pdf
| format = [[PDF]]
| accessdate = 2009-02-06
}}</ref> It is a style of computing in which typically [[real-time]], [[scalability|scalable]]<ref name="really">{{cite web|url=http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/04/07/15FE-cloud-computing-reality_1.html|title=What cloud computing really means|last=Gruman|first=Galen|date=2008-04-07|work=[[InfoWorld]]|accessdate=2009-01-13}}</ref> resources are provided "[[Everything as a service|as a service]]"<ref>[http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=707508 Gartner Says Cloud Computing Will Be As Influential As E-business]</ref> over the [[Internet]]<ref>[http://www.web2journal.com/read/612033.htm What's the difference Between Cloud Computing and SaaS?]</ref> to users who need not have knowledge of, expertise in, or control over the technology infrastructure ("in the cloud") that supports them.<ref>[http://www.ebizq.net/blogs/saasweek/2008/03/distinguishing_cloud_computing/ Distinguishing Cloud Computing from Utility Computing]</ref> [[Mobile enterprise]] is cloud computing for business.</blockquote>
: I changed the first sentence to a very light paraphrasing of the third quote [[User:SamJohnston]] has given above, which I considered to be an improvement on the previous sentence - see [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cloud_computing&oldid=268895493 here]. [[User:CloudComputing]] then attempted to expand this and give another ref shortly afterwards. I assumed SamJohnston would have no objections to me using the quote he himself provided on this talk page, but I agree CloudComputing's additions [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cloud_computing&diff=269000024&oldid=268962247] probably don't clarify matters much. [[User:Letdorf|Letdorf]] ([[User talk:Letdorf|talk]]) 17:17, 8 February 2009 (UTC).
:: It seems there were [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cloud_computing&diff=268998699&oldid=268895493 a few] different accounts involved, but the problem is that as soon as anyone starts listing anything in this article those of us who maintain it end up spending half our lives reverting additions - within a day or two that list would have grown to 10 or 15 items. You show me a more precise definition than 'internet based development and use of computer technology' and I'll show you an example of something that doesn't fit. -- <u style="text-decoration:none; font-family: papyrus;">[[User:SamJohnston|samj]] <small><sub><font color="maroon">[[User talk:Samj|in]]</font></sub><sup><font color="green">[[Special:Contributions/SamJohnston|out]]</font></sup></small></u> 00:06, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
::: Okay, let's try that again without the list:
:::''Cloud computing refers to the use of Internet-based (i.e. Cloud) computer technology for a variety of services.''
:::This is marginally more precise and is copied verbatim from the quote you gave above. By the way, ''...spending half our lives reverting additions'' pretty much sums up my experience of being a Wikipedian too. However, making one editor's life easier isn't a good justification for attempting to stymie other editors' efforts to improve an article. [[WP:OWN]] and [[WP:NVC]] have some words of wisdom on this. [[User:Letdorf|Letdorf]] ([[User talk:Letdorf|talk]]) 14:13, 9 February 2009 (UTC).
::: I strongly agree with Letdorf. ''"If you do not want your ideas (for article organization, categorization, style, standards, etc.) challenged or developed by others, then do not submit them"'' --[[User:Emrekenci|Emre Kenci]] ([[User talk:Emrekenci|talk]]) 16:05, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
:::: Did you actually read the thread? Anyway I see you've broken the intro again this afternoon - so long as we're talking minutiae about appropriate use of parenthesis and square quotes how about you tell me where it says you can have parentheses without leading spaces? -- <u style="text-decoration:none; font-family: papyrus;">[[User:SamJohnston|samj]] <small><sub><font color="maroon">[[User talk:Samj|in]]</font></sub><sup><font color="green">[[Special:Contributions/SamJohnston|out]]</font></sup></small></u> 23:04, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
::::: You're right it does not say that anywhere so instead of calling you an abuser like you did, I corrected it. I didnt read the whole threat but I read this part: "''[[WP:OWN]] and [[WP:NVC]] have some words of wisdom on this.''" by Letdorf. And I still strongly agree with that. --[[User:Emrekenci|Emre Kenci]] ([[User talk:Emrekenci|talk]]) 12:14, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
: Are you guys having fun yet? The intro's a !#$%@( mess again. -- <u style="text-decoration:none; font-family: papyrus;">[[User:SamJohnston|samj]] <small><sub><font color="maroon">[[User talk:Samj|in]]</font></sub><sup><font color="green">[[Special:Contributions/SamJohnston|out]]</font></sup></small></u> 03:38, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
:: The current first sentence of the intro comes from one of the quotes ''you'' have cited above, in support of the previous version. Surely you're not objecting to that? I could probably come up with something better, but I decided to compromise, given your intransigence over previous attempts to improve the intro. By the way, have you read [[WP:CIVIL]]? [[User:Letdorf|Letdorf]] ([[User talk:Letdorf|talk]]) 00:20, 23 February 2009 (UTC).
::: Never mind, I already cleaned it up -- <u style="text-decoration:none; font-family: papyrus;">[[User:SamJohnston|samj]] <small><sub><font color="maroon">[[User talk:Samj|in]]</font></sub><sup><font color="green">[[Special:Contributions/SamJohnston|out]]</font></sup></small></u> 17:00, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
:::: I've been pondering over the [[WP:LEAD]] and have discussed it with a few colleagues... the previous version (which was in place without incident for months) is more informative than the current "for a variety of services" wording and as such has been replaced. -- <u style="text-decoration:none; font-family: papyrus;">[[User:SamJohnston|samj]] <small><sub><font color="maroon">[[User talk:Samj|in]]</font></sub><sup><font color="green">[[Special:Contributions/SamJohnston|out]]</font></sup></small></u> 04:45, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
::::: The place to discuss making changes to this article is ''here''. Consensus in Wikipedia is built among WP editors, not among one editor and his mates! [[User:Letdorf|Letdorf]] ([[User talk:Letdorf|talk]]) 18:17, 28 February 2009 (UTC).
:::::: These "mates" happen to include some of the most active people in the cloud computing commmunity and until such time as I can convince them to get involved I am their only representation here. In any case, proposing such a controversial edit to a stable article and then implementing it in the absence of consensus is not on. -- <u style="text-decoration:none; font-family: papyrus;">[[User:SamJohnston|samj]] <small><sub><font color="maroon">[[User talk:Samj|in]]</font></sub><sup><font color="green">[[Special:Contributions/SamJohnston|out]]</font></sup></small></u> 15:08, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
::::::: Regardless of the activities of your acquaintances, this is at best [[WP:OR|original research]]. Controversial? This time I deliberately used a quote (verbatim) ''and'' a source ''you'' had given previously in this discussion, in an attempt to be as un-controversial as possible! It's obvious you have no real interest in building [[WP:CONS|consensus]] here. [[User:Letdorf|Letdorf]] ([[User talk:Letdorf|talk]]) 15:26, 1 March 2009 (UTC).
:::::::: It's well sourced so hardly [[WP:OR|original research]] and there have been two people outside of us contribute to this discussion over six weeks - one wanted to talk about quotes and parenthesis and the other provided a quote that talked about software architecture (e.g. development). I see that as an indication that it's a non-issue for most people and that we would be better to focus our energies elsewhere. Status quo reflects the views of both users and developers while suggested alternatives ignore the latter. -- <u style="text-decoration:none; font-family: papyrus;">[[User:SamJohnston|samj]] <small><sub><font color="maroon">[[User talk:Samj|in]]</font></sub><sup><font color="green">[[Special:Contributions/SamJohnston|out]]</font></sup></small></u> 05:24, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
I seem to have inadvertently stepped into a sh*t storm by removing the first sentence. My rationale for removing it was that it's a completely vacuous sentence, and I'm not sure it's even grammatically correct. In any case, it starts out by "Cloud computing is ..." leading me to believe that what follows is a definition of what cloud computing is. Instead I'm told that it is something that is: 1) "Internet based", and 2) a "use of computer technology". That definition matches about a million different terms and tells me nothing of value. It also sets the whole tone of the article as a lackluster soup of marketing terms. I was reverted as "per talk page", but I fail to see any consensus for it here. Instead I see a number of people expressing concerns over the intro in general and the first sentence in particular, and one editor who is disregarding everyone else's arguments.--[[Special:Contributions/130.233.154.94|130.233.154.94]] ([[User talk:130.233.154.94|talk]]) 12:44, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
: Yes, as you can see, I've been trying to persuade [[User:SamJohnston]] for some time now with the same argument, but to no avail. A clear case of [[WP:OWN]] it seems to me. [[User:Letdorf|Letdorf]] ([[User talk:Letdorf|talk]]) 13:00, 23 March 2009 (UTC).
:: Remind me again why the definition needs to be any more concise, particularly in the absence of a formal definition (and indeed an authorative body with which to create one)? There was no precise definition for the last [[paradigm shift]], client-server, and there need not be here either. If anything this is simply client-server->client-cloud; the shifting of "computing" to the Internet. The assumption is that "cloud" is things like Amazon EC2, which is definitely not the case; most deployments (google, salesforce, etc.) have no virtualisation whatsoever, and yet we talk about this in the lead which is at least a partial concession to Letdorf's demands (above). -- <u style="text-decoration:none; font-family: papyrus;">[[User:SamJohnston|samj]] <small><sub><font color="maroon">[[User talk:Samj|in]]</font></sub><sup><font color="green">[[Special:Contributions/SamJohnston|out]]</font></sup></small></u> 07:34, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
::: User:130.233.154.94 has explained it pretty well above; there's no point in me trying to spell it out yet again. And I see [[User:Eleven even]] seems to have been of the same opinion, but as usual, their contribution has been reverted. So, to recap, in the last few months, myself, Tdanecker, 130.233.154.94 and Eleven even seem to broadly agree that the first sentence of this article is poor, but our opinions don't seem to count here, apparently. You even slapped a [[:Template:uw-vandal]] on 130.233.154.94 for their troubles, which is well out of order. And whether virtualisation is an intrinsic part of cloud computing is a different debate; what we're talking about here is trying to write meaningful English. [[User:Letdorf|Letdorf]] ([[User talk:Letdorf|talk]]) 10:47, 27 March 2009 (UTC).
Here's the Wall Street Journal's latest definition which is hours old ([http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123802623665542725.html The Internet Industry Is on a Cloud -- Whatever That May Mean]). Thanks for the ongoing [[WP:HOUND]]ing though - good to see nothing's changed. -- <u style="text-decoration:none; font-family: papyrus;">[[User:SamJohnston|samj]] <small><sub><font color="maroon">[[User talk:Samj|in]]</font></sub><sup><font color="green">[[Special:Contributions/SamJohnston|out]]</font></sup></small></u> 10:50, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
{{quotation|1=In its broadest sense, cloud computing describes something apparent to anybody who uses the Internet: Information is stored and processed on computers somewhere else -- "in the clouds" -- and brought back to your screen.}}
: That is an exceptionally bad definition, and the WSJ is not the right source to look for one. It's like starting [[Shoe]] with: "Shoes are collections of atoms." I don't know what kind of conspiracy you think there is against you, but I was simply trying to do my small part to fix an obviously bad first sentence of the article. There are many, many problems with the article as a whole, but apparently nobody is allowed to fix any of them.--[[Special:Contributions/130.233.238.136|130.233.238.136]] ([[User talk:130.233.238.136|talk]]) 13:35, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
:: Actually for the average person this is what cloud means, and in any case it's the most reliable source we have. Some people (above) think of it as scalable infrastructure, virtualisation, etc. but the reality is that for the vast majority cloud = Google. For the advanced cloud = Salesforce and for nerds (above) it means Amazon. Is Gmail a "''dynamically scalable and often virtualised resource provided as a service''"? Clearly not. -- <u style="text-decoration:none; font-family: papyrus;">[[User:SamJohnston|samj]] <small><sub><font color="maroon">[[User talk:Samj|in]]</font></sub><sup><font color="green">[[Special:Contributions/SamJohnston|out]]</font></sup></small></u> 00:03, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
::: Google, Salesforce, Amazon or Gmail are not clouds. Three of those are companies, one is a free email service.--[[Special:Contributions/130.233.154.94|130.233.154.94]] ([[User talk:130.233.154.94|talk]]) 10:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
:::: Are you arguing for my case or against it? -- <u style="text-decoration:none; font-family: papyrus;">[[User:SamJohnston|samj]] <small><sub><font color="maroon">[[User talk:Samj|in]]</font></sub><sup><font color="green">[[Special:Contributions/SamJohnston|out]]</font></sup></small></u> 11:48, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
::::: I have no idea what your case is. The old first sentence was bad, the current is acceptable.--[[Special:Contributions/130.233.154.94|130.233.154.94]] ([[User talk:130.233.154.94|talk]]) 13:13, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Layperson's impression of the page: Utterly incomprehensible. Wikipedia should make these esoteric ideas understandable to someone without any IT background at all, such as myself. I would even think that that's the fun part.[[User:Archer070|Archer070]] ([[User talk:Archer070|talk]]) 19:48, 15 May 2009 (UTC)Archer070
After reading the first few pages of the article (and noting that there is a lot of ongoing discussion in this "Introduction" thread, I must agree with Archer070 (as the latest commenter) that this article needs a lot of attention and improvement. However, given the state of the discussion, I'm not sure I should. Is anybody attempting to organize a coordinated effort re this?
--[[User:Bkengland|Bkengland]] ([[User talk:Bkengland|talk]]) 21:19, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
:: Full of Inaccuracies. No criticisms section. Gives credibility to what is in effect a buzzword.
The first and most major inaccuracy is the implication that "cloud computing" is not simply a continuation of the attempt to sell consumers dumb terminals through which they buy services.
The first technical inaccuracy is a huge one. The statement "Up to the 1990s, data circuits (including those that carried Internet traffic) were hard-wired between destinations" is untrue on its face. The first data networks were wireless (depending on how you define a data network). The first public data networks were packet and email based packet networks run through traditonal phone lines.
A more seriously disengenuous inaccuracy is in this statement "The underlying concept of cloud computing dates back to 1960, when John McCarthy opined that "computation may someday be organized as a public utility". This was the mainrame philosophy that the pc revolution put the stake through the heart of. The way this is stated simply rewrites history. The article in effect credits individuals with things they did not intend as well as granting this concept a history it does not have.
The most important inaccuracy in this article is the very concept behind cloud computing. It is an esoteric concept and a hard one to define but it is most certainly not one in which the public is seen merely as consumer to be charged. A more useful definition might remove the business centric focus and explain it more around examples like bittorrent, emule, and the seti@home project. Even more accurately cloud computing should perhaps be put forth as a buzzword or perhaps to be more politic - reimagining, of an old concept.
I did not edit this article as i am certain some here would object strongly and have put a lot of work into this page but this entry should be cleaned up or wiped. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Creid999|Creid999]] ([[User talk:Creid999|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Creid999|contribs]]) 12:30, 8 August 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
Christ al-friggin-mighty. Who would have guessed that the industry best known for its overbearing and insufferable use of stupid metaphors and clumsy jargon would come up with yet another doozy, and then load up the Wiki page that pretends to explain what it means with MORE crappy metaphors and jargon. Elastic? Scalable? What the F-ing bloody hades are we talking about here, a rubber wall for kids to climb at birthday parties? Oh, and thank Gartner for contributing his two cents. Next time someone could point out why his two cents are worth more than my five year old neice's. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/62.150.91.10|62.150.91.10]] ([[User talk:62.150.91.10|talk]]) 11:43, 22 August 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
== Use of survey as source ==
<blockquote>As of 2009, new players, such as Ubuntu Cloud Computing, are gaining attention in the industry<ref>[http://www.oncloudcomputing.com/en/2009/07/the-top-cloud-computing-solutions-people-are-looking-for-in-2009%E2%80%93-survey-by-oncloudcomputingcom/ The Top Cloud Computing Solutions people are looking for in 2009]</ref>.</blockquote>
I've moved the above here for discussion. As I indicated in my edit summary when I first removed it [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cloud_computing&diff=307192646&oldid=307192268], I think the source is very poor and too much of it is [[WP:OR|original research]]. --[[User:Ronz|Ronz]] ([[User talk:Ronz|talk]]) 17:23, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
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