MediaWiki talk:Common.js/Archive 17: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 08:19, 21 October 2009

Revision as of 08:17, 30 October 2009

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:::I like it; it's slightly amusing yet clearly serious. I'd put the whole first sentence in bold, personally, as that's the really important part. [[User:Ale_jrb|<font color="green">A</font><small><font color="green">le_Jrb</font>]]</small>^{[[User_talk:Ale_jrb|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]} 13:08, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

::::Same here. Give me a minute, and I'll tweak the wording, too. =) <span style=white-space:nowrap>「[[User:Dinoguy1000|<span style=color:#00f>ダイノ<span style=color:#080>ガイ]][[Special:Contributions/Dinoguy1000|<span style=color:#F90>千？！]]」^{[[Help:IJP|?]] · [[User talk:Dinoguy1000#top|Talk⇒Dinoguy1000]]}</span></span> 18:52, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

== border="1" in tables ==

Last year we [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.js/edit.js&diff=233046900&oldid=226600579 hacked] the formatting of wikitables to help them appear with borders when rendering in environments without CSS (see [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.css/Archive_5#Wikitable_borders_without_CSS|discussion]]). Now that is coming round to bite us: with the recent wikitech-l thread supporting a move to [[HTML 5]] ([http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2009-July/043865.html] and subsequent), we now have a horde of markup on enwiki that is going to become ''invalid'' [http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2009-July/043865.html]; see the extensive discussion at {{bug|18829}}, which WONTFIXed the idea of applying this style more widely.

I don't think we should give ourselves the task of removing existing invalid attributes at this stage (things like <tt>cellspacing</tt>, <tt>cellpadding</tt> and even <tt>align</tt> are invalid HTML5); the shift from XHTML-1.0-transitional, which we use at the moment, is going to be very slow and steady, and these attributes will not ''break'' output, they will just cause validation errors. But it would be eminently sensible for us to stop continually making the problem ''worse'', by updating our documentation to encourage the correct formatting, and by reverting the change to [[MediaWiki:Common.js/edit.js]] which means every table added using the edit toolbar is added ''broken''. Thoughts? [[User:Also-Happy-melon|<small style="color:red">(also)</small>]]<font color="forestgreen">[[User:Happy-melon|'''Happy''']]</font>‑<font color="darkorange">[[User talk:Happy-melon|'''melon''']]</font> 09:19, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

*I agree, no point in leaving that in. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 11:00, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

*Well I think we should start by warning users about using the already deprecated (HTML4) font tag in their signatures **cough**. — [[User:Dispenser|Dispenser]] 11:29, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

*:''Ouch'' <tT>:D</tt> To be fair, I ''have'' been planning to change it ever since I heard about HTML5 and started looking into it, but I hadn't got around to it. First sig change since 2006!! It also deprecates {{tag|tt}}, which I use all the time... <tT>:(</tt> [[User:Also-Happy-melon|<small style="color:red">(also)</small>]][[User:Happy-melon|<span style="color:forestgreen">'''Happy'''</span>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<span style="color:darkorange">'''melon'''</span>]] 12:58, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

*Yikes, switching from XHTML will require reworking almost all Twinkle scripts. And not being able to use [[XPath]] any longer will suck as well. Hmpf, I guess I'll have a look at jQuery.<br>But anyway, yes, removing <code>border="1"</code> in anticipation sounds like a good idea. I'd suggest adding a rule to remove <code>border</code>, <code>cellpadding</code>, <code>cellspacing</code>, etc. to the AWB general fixes before long, too.<br>[[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#832">Amalthea</span>]] 11:53, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

*:From the wikitech-l discussion (see also [[mw:HTML 5]]) we'll keep trying to serve valid XHTML-1.0 for a fair while longer, until we're totally sick-and-tired of bending over backwards and shouting at screen-scraping bots/scripts to start using the API. Certainly there should be plenty of crossover time with jQuery.<br/><code>class="wikitable" border="1"</code> can certainly be trivially removed by AWB. Cellpadding and cellspacing will be somewhat harder to deal with since they'll affect appearance if they're just blindly removed. [[User:Also-Happy-melon|<small style="color:red">(also)</small>]][[User:Happy-melon|<span style="color:forestgreen">'''Happy'''</span>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<span style="color:darkorange">'''melon'''</span>]] 12:58, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

*::''edit conflict'' It's just Garrett wanting to be cruel to bot operators (and everyone not on the bleeding edge) and not realizing that [[WP:PERSONDATA|not every]] is available via API. Brion has already pointed out that there will be XHTML version of HTML5. — [[User:Dispenser|Dispenser]] 13:11, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

*::For manipulation of the page content (like Twinkle's rollback/revert links) and for several feature where the script input necessarily comes from the current page (batch deletion & protection) I'll always have to parse the rendered & skinned output the user currently sees, scream as you might.<br/>[[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#832">Amalthea</span>]] 13:43, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

*:::It's not me screaming! I don't think Twinkle is the focus of his wrath: that's reserved for pywiki... [[User:Also-Happy-melon|<small style="color:red">(also)</small>]][[User:Happy-melon|<span style="color:forestgreen">'''Happy'''</span>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<span style="color:darkorange">'''melon'''</span>]] 15:01, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

*'''Hold''' until somebody solves and implements a fix for the copy'n'paste issue, preferably so that install based > HTML 5 only users. — [[User:Dispenser|Dispenser]] 15:26, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

*:There is no magic 'solution' to the copy-and-paste issue: the expectations of those reusers are fundamentally divergent from the prevailing policies in web design for the past ten years. Style is separate from content; reuses which do not follow that philosophy are not living in the modern world.

*:Now, we ''can'' continue to support this deviation; we'd need to replace <code>border="1"</code> with <code>style="border:1px solid;"</code>. I'm not fundamentally opposed to that. But I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that in five years time HTML 6 or 7 deprecates the style element entirely - that's the direction we're going in. It's important to approach this from the perspective of legacy support: this is no different to IEfixes or the other style hacks we have - we are taking [[Above and Beyond the Call of Duty|ABCD]] steps to accomodate user agents that render this material ''improperly''. [[User:Happy-melon|<span style="color:forestgreen">'''Happy'''</span>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<span style="color:darkorange">'''melon'''</span>]] 21:08, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand why we need the border to be specified at all. There is lots of stuff that will look terrible if Common.css is not used - why focus on this one tiny thing? I think we should just remove it. --- [[User:RockMFR|RockMFR]] 20:57, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

:I agree. This hack should never have been implemented. —[[User:Remember the dot|Remember the dot]] ^{([[User talk:Remember the dot|talk]])} 19:08, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

== highlighting the edit tab ==

If you look at articles on the polish wikipedia such as say [[:pl:Frank_McCourt]] you can see that they use javascript to highlight the tab to a greater extent than we do. Any objections to implementing this on en?©[[User:Geni|Geni]] 16:30, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

:Yes. --- [[User:RockMFR|RockMFR]] 16:37, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

::Any they are?©[[User:Geni|Geni]] 16:42, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

:::Even if this was visually desirable, [[CSS]] would be a much better way to implement it than JavaScript. —[[User:Remember the dot|Remember the dot]] ^{([[User talk:Remember the dot|talk]])} 17:54, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

::::That was my intial assumption but pl has done it via javescript.©[[User:Geni|Geni]] 18:32, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

:::::pl.wiki has done it poorly, then. In any case, I dislike having the "edit" tab highlighted. [[User:EVula|EVula]] <span style="color: #999;">// [[User talk:EVula|talk]] // [[User:EVula/admin|<span style="color: #366;">&#9775;</span>]] //</span> 19:28, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

What is the advantage of highlighting the edit tab? There's an argument to highlight the discussion tab, if any. We'd have a better encyclopedia if there was more discussion. --[[User:Dweller|Dweller]] ([[User talk:Dweller|talk]]) 19:24, 10 August 2009 (UTC)