Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shen (programming language): Difference between revisions
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<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Nakon|<font color="#C50">'''Nakon'''</font>]] 05:07, 8 March 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist -->[[Category:Relisted AfD debates|Shen (programming language)]]</div>
I should introduce myself; I am Dr Willi Riha, formerly lecturer in comparative programming languages at ▼
▲:I should introduce myself; I am Dr Willi Riha, formerly lecturer in comparative programming languages at the university of Leeds.
:First I agree with you that the license question, which seems to be something of an obsession with HGA, is a blind with respect to the question of notability raised on these pages. As a matter of fact, Shen is under 3-clause BSD and has been since February this year.
:I can say that Shen is not 'still born' (Dingley) or dead and that I have written and am still writing a significant body of work in it; work that in some cases I could not have pursued in ML; an example being the construction of a type secure proof assistant based on Bourbaki's formalisation of PC. HGA's characterisation of Shen as having 'little that's qualitatively unique' is malicious. We also have a team of people working on implementations under half a dozen languages. Finally Greg Spurrier is writing an introduction to Shen in Asciidoc. I am working on concurrent Shen right now. Shen is far from dead.
:I am not an expert on the notability criteria of wikipedia or the question of primary sources. The Shen group has relied heavily on Mark Tarver's written documentation which is excellent and very thorough. So much so that it has deterred people from writing their own, though this is now changing. I know that Mark has encouraged people to step out of his shadow, and I hope with the new license this will happen. I would have thought that Aditya's talk on Shen at the StrangeLoop conference in 2014 should have sufficed in itself to remove the question of notability.
WP:notability says▼
▲:WP:notability says
The term "published" is most commonly associated with text materials, either in traditional printed format or online. However, audio, video, and multimedia materials that have been recorded then broadcast, distributed, or archived by a reputable party may also meet the necessary criteria to be considered reliable sources. ▼
▲:The term "published" is most commonly associated with text materials, either in traditional printed format or online. However, audio, video, and multimedia materials that have been recorded then broadcast, distributed, or archived by a reputable party may also meet the necessary criteria to be considered reliable sources.
on languages like Brainfuck and Malbolge which have far less following or use than Shen.▼
▲:As Mark has pointed out, there are articles in Wikipedia on languages like Brainfuck and Malbolge which have far less following or use than Shen.
Wikipedia guidelines by editing the article himself. I vote for a strong keep. <small>'''Note''': An editor has expressed a concern that [[User:Williriha|Williriha]] ([[User talk:Williriha|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Williriha|contribs]]) has been [[WP:CANVAS|canvassed]] to this discussion. {{#if:|([{{{2}}} diff])|}}</small> <small>— [[User:Williriha|Williriha]] ([[User talk:Williriha|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Williriha|contribs]]) has made [[Wikipedia:Single-purpose account|few or no other edits]] outside this topic. </small>▼
▲:I think that there are enough people in the Shen group to rewrite this stub without Mark having to violate Wikipedia guidelines by editing the article himself. I vote for a strong keep. <small>— '''Note''': An editor has expressed a concern that [[User:Williriha|Williriha]] ([[User talk:Williriha|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Williriha|contribs]]) has been [[WP:CANVAS|canvassed]] to this discussion. {{#if:|([{{{2}}} diff])|}}
:''"HGA's characterisation of Shen as having 'little that's qualitatively unique'"'' is a ''wild guess'' signaled by the weasel words ''"I think I know why"'', working from the observed facts and trying to figure out why Qi/Shen have made ''no'' apparent impact on the programming languages community, which might be expected to use some of its ideas if they were unique. That guess has resulted in no reply other than insult, plus now the above observation that it can do things that [[Williriha]] cannot (easily) do in [[ML_(programming_language)|ML]]. If I'm wrong, I would be interested in specifics about qualitative things that make it unique beyond implementation details, like it being a Lisp. [[User:Hga|Hga]] ([[User talk:Hga|talk]]) 22:21, 8 March 2015 (UTC)▼
▲::''"HGA's characterisation of Shen as having 'little that's qualitatively unique'"'' is a ''wild guess'' signaled by the weasel words ''"I think I know why"'', working from the observed facts and trying to figure out why Qi/Shen have made ''no'' apparent impact on the programming languages community, which might be expected to use some of its ideas if they were unique. That guess has resulted in no reply other than insult, plus now the above observation that it can do things that [[Williriha]] cannot (easily) do in [[ML_(programming_language)|ML]]. If I'm wrong, I would be interested in specifics about qualitative things that make it unique beyond implementation details, like it being a Lisp. [[User:Hga|Hga]] ([[User talk:Hga|talk]]) 22:21, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
* '''keep''' In the Lisp family of languages, Shen stands out in at least two respects: (1) Its type system, which is closer to a general theorem prover than to a traditional type system, and (2) its implementation by compilation to a minimalist subset of itself. Shen is actively developed, well documented in [http://www.shenlanguage.org/tbos.html The Book of Shen], and it has a small but active user base organized in a mailing list. Not being a Wikipedia expert, I cannot say if this suffices for notability, but as a Wikipedia user I would definitely expect Wikipedia to have an entry on Shen. <small
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