Content deleted Content added
m Archiving 1 discussion(s) from Talk:Dnipropetrovsk) (bot |
m Archiving 1 discussion(s) from Talk:Dnipropetrovsk) (bot |
||
Line 130:
:So what! And a site linked to by the story is webinerds.com/company/, which spells it "Dnipropetrovsk".--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 20:28, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
::The above is NOT a personal attack as claimed. It is the URL of a company - I got the link to the company from the article referenced by Yulia Romero above, and wondered how the company spelled the city's name. For some reason, Wikipedia blocks posting the URL with http: in front of it.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 21:10, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
== Weather "data" ==
{{collapse top|Comparison of old and new versions of the Weather box}}
'''Old version'''
{{Weather box|___location = Dnipropetrovsk
|metric first = y
| Jan record high C = 12.3
| Feb record high C = 17.5
| Mar record high C = 24.1
| Apr record high C = 31.8
| May record high C = 36.1
| Jun record high C = 37.8
| Jul record high C = 39.8
| Aug record high C = 40.9
| Sep record high C = 36.5
| Oct record high C = 32.6
| Nov record high C = 20.6
| Dec record high C = 16.3
|year record high C = 40.9
| Jan high C = -1.0
| Feb high C = 0.0
| Mar high C = 6.0
| Apr high C = 15.2
| May high C = 22.1
| Jun high C = 25.6
| Jul high C = 28.0
| Aug high C = 27.4
| Sep high C = 21.5
| Oct high C = 13.8
| Nov high C = 5.2
| Dec high C = 0.2
|year high C = 13.7
| Jan mean C = -3.7
| Feb mean C = -3.4
| Mar mean C = 1.8
| Apr mean C = 9.6
| May mean C = 16.1
| Jun mean C = 19.8
| Jul mean C = 22.1
| Aug mean C = 21.4
| Sep mean C = 15.5
| Oct mean C = 8.9
| Nov mean C = 2.0
| Dec mean C = -2.3
|year mean C = 9.0
| Jan low C = -6.1
| Feb low C = -6.3
| Mar low C = -1.6
| Apr low C = 4.9
| May low C = 10.6
| Jun low C = 14.6
| Jul low C = 16.7
| Aug low C = 15.8
| Sep low C = 10.7
| Oct low C = 5.0
| Nov low C = -0.5
| Dec low C = -4.7
|year low C = 4.9
| Jan record low C = -30.0
| Feb record low C = -27.8
| Mar record low C = -19.2
| Apr record low C = -8.2
| May record low C = -2.4
| Jun record low C = 3.9
| Jul record low C = 5.9
| Aug record low C = 3.9
| Sep record low C = -3.0
| Oct record low C = -8.0
| Nov record low C = -17.9
| Dec record low C = -27.8
|year record low C = -30.0
| precipitation colour = green
| Jan precipitation mm = 45
| Feb precipitation mm = 43
| Mar precipitation mm = 43
| Apr precipitation mm = 38
| May precipitation mm = 42
| Jun precipitation mm = 60
| Jul precipitation mm = 54
| Aug precipitation mm = 43
| Sep precipitation mm = 41
| Oct precipitation mm = 37
| Nov precipitation mm = 46
| Dec precipitation mm = 47
|year precipitation mm = 539
|Jan humidity= 88
|Feb humidity= 85
|Mar humidity= 79
|Apr humidity= 67
|May humidity= 62
|Jun humidity= 66
|Jul humidity= 65
|Aug humidity= 62
|Sep humidity= 70
|Oct humidity= 77
|Nov humidity= 87
|Dec humidity= 88
|year humidity= 75
| Jan rain days = 9
| Feb rain days = 8
| Mar rain days = 10
| Apr rain days = 13
| May rain days = 13
| Jun rain days = 13
| Jul rain days = 12
| Aug rain days = 9
| Sep rain days = 10
| Oct rain days = 10
| Nov rain days = 12
| Dec rain days = 11
|year rain days = 130
|Jan snow days = 16
|Feb snow days = 15
|Mar snow days = 9
|Apr snow days = 1
|May snow days = 0.1
|Jun snow days = 0
|Jul snow days = 0
|Aug snow days = 0
|Sep snow days = 0
|Oct snow days = 1
|Nov snow days = 6
|Dec snow days = 15
|year snow days = 63
|source 1 = Pogoda.ru.net<ref name="pogoda">{{cite web
|url = http://pogoda.ru.net/climate/34504.htm| title = Pogoda.ru.net| accessdate =4 October 2012
|publisher = | language = Russian|date=May 2011}}</ref>
|date=April 2012
}}
'''New version'''
{{Weather box
|___location = Dnipropetrovsk, 1981–2010 normals, extremes 1955–present
|metric first = y
| Jan record high C = 12.3
| Feb record high C = 17.5
| Mar record high C = 24.1
| Apr record high C = 31.8
| May record high C = 36.1
| Jun record high C = 37.8
| Jul record high C = 39.8
| Aug record high C = 40.9
| Sep record high C = 36.5
| Oct record high C = 32.6
| Nov record high C = 20.6
| Dec record high C = 16.3
|year record high C = 40.9
| Jan high C = -1.0
| Feb high C = 0.6
| Mar high C = 7.8
| Apr high C = 16.9
| May high C = 25.4
| Jun high C = 27.8
| Jul high C = 30.1
| Aug high C = 29.9
| Sep high C = 23.3
| Oct high C = 14.4
| Nov high C = 7.3
| Dec high C = 0.6
|year high C = 15.3
| Jan mean C = -2.9
| Feb mean C = -2.5
| Mar mean C = 3.4
| Apr mean C = 11.4
| May mean C = 19.2
| Jun mean C = 21.9
| Jul mean C = 23.7
| Aug mean C = 23.4
| Sep mean C = 17.5
| Oct mean C = 10.0
| Nov mean C = 4.4
| Dec mean C = -1.5
|year mean C = 10.6
| Jan low C = -4.9
| Feb low C = -5.7
| Mar low C = -1.0
| Apr low C = 5.8
| May low C = 13.1
| Jun low C = 15.9
| Jul low C = 17.4
| Aug low C = 16.9
| Sep low C = 11.8
| Oct low C = 4.7
| Nov low C = 1.6
| Dec low C = -3.6
|year low C = 6.0
| Jan record low C = -30.0
| Feb record low C = -27.8
| Mar record low C = -19.2
| Apr record low C = -8.2
| May record low C = -2.4
| Jun record low C = 3.9
| Jul record low C = 5.9
| Aug record low C = 3.9
| Sep record low C = -3.0
| Oct record low C = -8.0
| Nov record low C = -17.9
| Dec record low C = -27.8
|year record low C = -30.0
| precipitation colour = green
| Jan precipitation mm = 76
| Feb precipitation mm = 56
| Mar precipitation mm = 52
| Apr precipitation mm = 46
| May precipitation mm = 34
| Jun precipitation mm = 30
| Jul precipitation mm = 26
| Aug precipitation mm = 22
| Sep precipitation mm = 25
| Oct precipitation mm = 28
| Nov precipitation mm = 72
| Dec precipitation mm = 102
|year precipitation mm = 569
|Jan humidity= 88
|Feb humidity= 85
|Mar humidity= 79
|Apr humidity= 67
|May humidity= 62
|Jun humidity= 66
|Jul humidity= 65
|Aug humidity= 62
|Sep humidity= 70
|Oct humidity= 77
|Nov humidity= 87
|Dec humidity= 88
|year humidity= 75
| Jan rain days = 13
| Feb rain days = 12
| Mar rain days = 12
| Apr rain days = 11
| May rain days = 9
| Jun rain days = 6
| Jul rain days = 5
| Aug rain days = 4
| Sep rain days = 5
| Oct rain days = 8
| Nov rain days = 12
| Dec rain days = 13
|year rain days = 110
| Jan snow days = 11
| Feb snow days = 10
| Mar snow days = 6
| Apr snow days = 0.5
| May snow days = 0
| Jun snow days = 0
| Jul snow days = 0
| Aug snow days = 0
| Sep snow days = 0
| Oct snow days = 0.5
| Nov snow days = 4
| Dec snow days = 9
|year snow days = 41
|Jan sun = 185
|Feb sun = 207
|Mar sun = 269
|Apr sun = 309
|May sun = 325
|Jun sun = 311
|Jul sun = 313
|Aug sun = 287
|Sep sun = 271
|Oct sun = 247
|Nov sun = 173
|Dec sun = 160
|year sun = 3057
|source 1 = Meteoprog.ua<ref name="Not pogoda">{{cite web
|url = http://www.meteoprog.ua/ua/climate/Dnipropetrovsk/| title = Meteoprog.ua| accessdate =18 June 2016
|publisher = | language = Ukrainian|date=June 2016}}</ref>
|source 2 = «Guide to Climate of the USSR».<ref name="Guide to Climate of the USSR">({{cite book| author = | chapter = | chapter-url = | format = | url = | title = Справочник по климату СССР. Выпуск 10. Украинская ССР. Часть 1. Солнечная радиация, радиационный баланс и солнечное сияние | orig-year = | agency = Отв. редактор В.И.Гришко | edition = | ___location = Л.| year = 1966 | publisher = Гидрометиздат| at = | volume = | issue = | pages = | page = | series = | isbn = | ref = }}).</ref>
|date=June 2016
}}
<references/>
{{collapse bottom}}
The old version has a verifiable source.
*{{cite web |url = http://pogoda.ru.net/climate/34504.htm| title = Pogoda.ru.net| accessdate =4 October 2012|publisher = | language = Russian|date=May 2011}}
The new version has two alleged sources:
*{{cite web|url = http://www.meteoprog.ua/ua/climate/Dnipropetrovsk/| title = Meteoprog.ua| accessdate =18 June 2016|publisher = | language = Ukrainian|date=June 2016}}
*«Guide to Climate of the USSR».<ref name="Guide to Climate of the USSR">({{cite book| author = | chapter = | chapter-url = | format = | url = | title = Справочник по климату СССР. Выпуск 10. Украинская ССР. Часть 1. Солнечная радиация, радиационный баланс и солнечное сияние | orig-year = | agency = Отв. редактор В.И.Гришко | edition = | ___location = Л.| year = 1966 | publisher = Гидрометиздат| at = | volume = | issue = | pages = | page = | series = | isbn = | ref = }}
Of the new sources, one only contains information about the weather in Dnepropetrovsk now, and in the next week. It tells us nothing about how the weather varies through the year.
The other dates from 1966. I know Soviet technology was very advanced, but the notion that a source from 1966 tells us about the weather from 1981 to 2010 is hard to believe.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 19:25, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
Toddy1, I revised my citations, and now I guess, the information of the sources of my cites support the text in my edit.Thank you for your opinion.[[User:Paulandys|Paulandys]] ([[User talk:Paulandys|talk]]) <!--Template:Undated--><small class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 11:20, 25 July 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
: {{ping|Toddy1}} I would agree too. Using one year of data to explain climatic conditions is inaccurate due to year to year variability. I am also skeptical of the sunshine hours too; I could not find the WMO climatological data on sunshine data for Dnipropetrovsk. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dnipropetrovsk&oldid=731454308 Currently], the sunshine data is unsourced (not found in both sources) while the temperatures are not backed up by any of the citations mentioned (weatheronline.co.uk only has data from 1982–present). [[User:Ssbbplayer|Ssbbplayer]] ([[User talk:Ssbbplayer|talk]]) 15:09, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
::I think we should revert the new paragraphs. They contain statements that are not supported by citations - for example citations that do not mention the things they are being cited for, or do not even city of Dnepropetrovsk. Let me give some examples:
::*[http://www.weather2travel.com/climate-guides/ukraine/dnepropetrovsk.php#sunshine www.weather2travel.com] is used as a source for "Dnipropetrovsk is sunnier, with an average of 260 clear days, and only 105 cloudy days per year. Hours of sunshine total more than 3,000 per year." The source does not say that.
::*[http://www.seia.gov.ua/seia/doccatalog/document;jsessionid=513E9BB285610BA9DAD5E1B0728C0931.app2?id=638134 ''National Communication of Ukraine on Climate Change''] contains lots of useful information on Dnepropetrovsk, but does not mention Dnepropetrovsk having a "4 degree average temperature rise from 1881 to 2005", nor does it mention that temperatures in Dnepropetrovsk will rise will rise 4 to 4.5 degrees in temperature.
::*[http://pogoda.rovno.ua/klimat-ukrainy-menyaetsya-i-vse-bolshe-nachinaet-napominat-grecheskiy ''Климат Украины меняется и все больше начинает напоминать… греческий (The climate of Ukraine is changing and more and more begins to resemble Greece...)''] does not mention Dnepropetrovsk. It is an example of [[WP:COATRACK]].
::Another thing that disturbs me is that the citations being added are clearly being copied and pasted from other articles. Look at this edit from 16th July.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dnipropetrovsk&type=revision&diff=729368652&oldid=729295093] The access date in the template was 21 January 2009. Maybe the person adding all this stuff is not even reading the stuff that he/she cites.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 20:02, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
:::Yes, the person is not reading the stuff he/she cites. I have seen it on other cities in Ukraine. This example from Adding in statements that are not supported by citations is no better than adding in statements that lack citations. From the [http://www.fao.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Europe/documents/Events_2009/CC_workshop/ukraine_en.pdf FAO source], I did not see any parts that mention that most precipitation falls from November to April. All I see is that precipitation has changed in Ukraine with some areas seeing an increase in annual precipitation and others seeing a decrease. It should be reverted to the last good version. [[User:Ssbbplayer|Ssbbplayer]] ([[User talk:Ssbbplayer|talk]]) 01:06, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
::::I have reverted as discussed. Ssbbplayer agree with reversion proposal. Paulandys thanked me for the edit proposing reversion and has not posted any objection, so maybe that meant that he/she agreed with it.
::::I considered keeping a sentence about the Köppen–Geiger climate classification system, but I got bored going through citation after citation that did not actually mention Dnepropetrovsk, and so were not relevant.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 18:15, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
::::Toddy1 and Ssbbplayer, I would agree with your comments with regards to not quite correct sources and weather box (perhaps they are not quite correct, I'm sorry that I could be misleading, but out of it, it was not done for the vandalism, it was the best of intentions).
For example, data on the duration of sunshine (yes, they are out of date, but I figured that it was better raspolagatpo least what some information on this issue than none at all).
But if you return to the description of the climate, I am convinced that it is true in my version. Here are some facts that should confirm this:
1. First, though for the city the average temperature of the coldest month below -3 ° C (26,6 ° F) (although in fact it is about -3 ° C), then the Köppen climate classification climate must be the climate is moderately cold with uniform moisture (Humid continental climate), but the city to fit entirely in the steppe zone and soil moisture is not highly enough, precipitation as a whole falls less than evaporate (volatility of this region is similar to evaporation, such as areas of Northern California or areas of Central Nevada and is approximately 0,5-0,3) and that meet the criteria for the semi-arid climate, which can not be classified as continental (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6ppen_climate_classification#Group_D:_Continental.2Fmicrothermal_climates)
2. It is also in favor of the steppe (semi-arid) climate advocates that "the climate in the broadest sense - the global climate - characterized by a statistical ensemble of states through which the system" atmosphere - hydrosphere - land - cryosphere - biosphere "in decades", the there is a "climate" - is not only the temperature, but still mode precipitation and evaporation (http://shopkins.uga.edu/dir/Geog1112/Lectures1112/LECT28.хтм). Specifically it is about Dnepropetrovsk is not mentioned in the sources, but they said "the steppe region of Ukraine" and Dnepropetrovsk is located directly in the center of this geographic region. (Https://php.radford.edu/~swoodwar/biomes/?page_id=173)
3. Over the last 15 years in Dnepropetrovsk, every third winter is cold, and the other two relatively mild or cool (often a temperature above the freezing point).
4. My remarks about the city of climate change in the direction of the Mediterranean climate consists in the fact that on the basis of precipitation mode, aridity typical for dry years, and for the wet, the only difference is that during the dry years are very rare rainfall during from May to early October, and during the wet years from mid-May to the end of September and drop them within the period of 3 or 4 times in a thunderstorm (year high in June falls in the form of thunderstorms, but other days with precipitation last for a period of 1-2 days for each month), while due to they do not bear the high volatility of the region a moisturizing character. I'm not talking about "the classic Mediterranean climate", I mean a continental Mediterranean climate (northern boundary). The region has very few agricultural crops that can grow without irrigation of artificial. None of the residents not to count on the rain in the summer as a source of irrigation, which directly proves that the climate is dry in the summer (it is a fact, as Dnepropetrovsk my hometown, I have for many years lived in it, and I know what I'm talking ). So put Dnepropetrovsk in a line with the cities of the "classic" humid continental climate such as for example, Moscow, Detroit, Chicago or even Kiev - is absolutely wrong and not true.
In fact, the climate of the city rather similar to the climate in these regions, for example as the Reno (NV), Denver (Colorado) or to the inner (continental) regions of Iran (as under the regime of precipitation and the net evaporation, and for similar temperature ranges (average, as well as the maximum and minimum). Of course the winter in the region somewhat cooler, but in general the climate is very similar in nature. It can be easily verified.
5. With regard to the hardiness zone through (USDA-zone) of the city, it is in the zone 7a (a source that I cited was a worker and proven), but in the areas of commercial temperature is higher by about 2 - 3 ° C, and they are not far from the city center, in which there rise on the floor area up zone 7b.
There are many heat-loving plants are grown southern subtropical latitudes (quince, cypress, laurel and others).
6. Question by smog in the city, too, is open, due to High luminance level of enterprises and rare rain in the summer in Dnepropetrovsk is able on average from June to the end of September (sometimes with short breaks during rare summer thunderstorms).
Taking into account all of the above me, I propose to add my changes to this section:
{{collapse top|Paulandys's 15:45, 30 July 2016 suggested text for the Climate section of the article}}
{{Talk:Dnipropetrovsk/Subpage}}
{{collapse bottom}}
Toddy1 and Ssbbplayer, I really look forward to your objectivity on this issue. Thank you.
[[User:Paulandys|Paulandys]] ([[User talk:Paulandys|talk]]) 15:45, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
:[[Wikipedia:No original research]] says "Wikipedia articles must not contain original research. The phrase "original research" (OR) is used on Wikipedia to refer to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published sources exist.[1] This includes any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources. To demonstrate that you are not adding OR, you must be able to cite reliable, published sources that are directly related to the topic of the article, and directly support the material being presented."
:Writing down a load of stuff, that you think ought to be true is original research. Giving the stuff citations to "not quite correct sources" that you cribbed from other articles or Google is dishonest.
:As regards your latest proposal, the very first source I checked was to a text on "Köppen Climate Classification System", which does not mention the city. Citations to this kind of irrelevant source are not helpful.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 14:10, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
:*"As the city exemplifies the urban heat island effect, temperatures in commercial areas and in the industrialized areas along interstates are often higher than in the suburbs, often as much as 2.8 °C (5 °F).The city lies in the USDA plant hardiness zones 7a and 7b (Downtown).[5]" The source does not mention any of the stuff in the first sentence. There is a map in source [5] that justifies the statement about hardiness zones - but this is probably of greater significance to an article about hardiness zones than to an article on the city of Dnepropetrovsk. The terms "downtown" and "interstate" are American terms, which have no meaning to the rest of us.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 18:30, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
:*"Owing to geography, heavy reliance on automobiles, and the coal-using industries, such as metallurgical coke-chemical plants, Dnipropetrovsk suffers from air pollution in the form of smog.[7]" Where is in the source is any of that?--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 18:30, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
::::Toddy1, well I knew (or rather I guessed) that you think so, but I'm more than rely on the fact that you understand the concept of "climate zones" and "climatic regions" and what climates they represent. Listen to what you said domestic atlas, is fundamentally different from the situation that actually. Ukrainian climatology very long time moving away from Soviet concepts about climate (whether these are your words). I say to you about the facts, not the quotes in the old dusty books. You see, I was in in the agricultural sector and very strong sign of the climate and its features and I would not write complete nonsense here, if I did not know what I write.
::::Look, I just suggest to make what I write (the description of the climate of the city Dnipropetrovsk region), so maybe it does not describe the city of Dnepropetrovsk, but it describes the region (climate zone) of the city.
::::Just understand description of the city in the form of climate (
::::During the summer, Dnepropetrovsk very warm ...) is not quite correct. You can use this classification to describe the source: <ref> {{cite journal | author =
E. Bouma|url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/227545710_Development_of_comparable_agro-climatic_zones_for_the_international_exchange_of_data_on_the_efficacy_and_crop_safety_of_plant_protection_products1|title= Development of comparable agro-climatic zones for the international exchange of data on the ef fi cacy and crop safety of plant protection products | year = 2005 || publisher = Bulletin OEPP / EPPO, Blackwell Publishing, Ltd. | pages = 1075-1082}} < / ref> (there is a map that clearly indicate the type of climate in the region).
::::Can I edit a chapter, if you want. Or you are using this link (it seems to me justified in full, as this scientific work, and in it we are talking about the crops, and it has to do with the climate zone and the climate as a whole) or the other (better).
::::Just understand one simple thing: dry climate of the region is not as it can not be wet continental - it's true and it's a fact.
::::Thank you for your response and your comments.
::::P.S.At the expense of hardiness zones: We, too, need to know which plants can be grown (and here it does not matter the United States or any other country) literate person reading make for themselves the right conclusions.
::::Thank you, waiting for your response on this issue. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Paulandys|Paulandys]] ([[User talk:Paulandys|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Paulandys|contribs]]) 20:47, 30 July 2016 (UTC)</span></small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:::::The issue is that the citations do not support the content. Providing citations to general texts on classification systems is of relevance only to articles on the classification systems.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 21:07, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
::::::Ok, what articles you want?
::::::To be honest, I have read so many years is: (During the summer, Dnepropetrovsk very warm ...).
::::::Why do you push down the obvious, you read my sources? Why in other Wikipedia articles are worse quotes on the subject, but not here? I just do not understand ... The source, which I gave in the last treatment have a map that clearly shows in which climatic region is Dnepropetrovsk.
::::::Look for example at these sections is really better described the climate of the city ?:
::::::https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver#Climate
::::::https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albuquerque,_New_Mexico#Climate
::::::https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_Lake_City#Climate
::::::https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle#Climate
::::::https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrid#Climate
::::::And that's just cursory examples ... <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Paulandys|Paulandys]] ([[User talk:Paulandys|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Paulandys|contribs]]) 22:16, 30 July 2016 (UTC)</span></small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:::::::If you look at the example of [[Denver#Climate]], you will see that it cites the same source that you wanted to cite for the climate classification. This source explicitly states Denver's climate classification under the Köppen system. It is therefore a relevant source for Denver. But the source does not mention Dnepropetrovsk.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 05:47, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
Comments on [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dnipropetrovsk&type=revision&diff=733371992&oldid=732794828 Latest revision as of 10:17, 7 August 2016 by Paulandys]:
Citation [1] is {{cite web|url=http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/climate/Ukraine.htm|title=The climate of the Ukraine|accessdate=Jul 25, 2016|publisher=weatheronline.co.uk}}. This says the following:
:"The Climate of the Ukraine can be classified as Dfb Climate; a humid Snow climate with warmest month between 10°C and 22°C over average, the coldest month lower than -3°C over average and four or more months above 10°C over average. The coastal areas of the Black Sea have a Cfa Climate,; a warm temperated humid climate with the warmest month lower than 22°C over average and four or more months above 10°C over average. The Climate of the eastern Inland areas can be classified as Bsk Climate, a cold, dry Climate with a dry summer and annual average Temperatures under 18°C."[http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/climate/Ukraine.htm]
Citation [1] was in the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dnipropetrovsk&oldid=732794828 previous version of the article].
Citation [2] is [http://www.zompist.com/pckclimate.html ''World Map of the Köppen-Geiger Climate Classification''] This shows a world map in which Ukraine including the coastal areas is shown as Bs climate (steppe). This source contradicts citation [1].
Citation [3] is {{cite web|url=http://nationalgeographic.org/archive/xpeditions/activities/03/popup/climate.html|title=The climate of the World|accessdate=Aug 7, 2016|publisher=© 1996-2016 National Geographic Society.All rights reserved (NationalGeographic.com)}} This shows a tiny map of the world that shows Ukraine in which Ukraine including the coastal areas is shown as semi-arid. This source also contradicts citation [1].
There is a difference in formatting between citations [2] and [3] that were inserted by Paulandys in his/her edit, which suggests that the citations were copied from other articles.
There is a contradiction between sources that should be discussed.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 12:01, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
:Citations 2 of 3 from the counter to citation 1, here's why: "Climate eastern hinterland can be classified as the Ivory Coast climate, cold, dry climate with dry summers and average temperatures below 18 ° C" (Dnepropetrovsk is located on the South-East (or in the East (according to other sources)) in the steppe zone of Ukraine (Ukraine see the map if you do not know)) where there is a high evaporation, which is contrary to the climate of define as "wet continental climate", please read the literature on bioclimatic zones of the planet, and you will understand everything.
:Here for example in the steppes - the climate is dry, continental nature, but dry. A forest bioclimatic regions - continental wet evenly moistened. Dnipropetrovsk is located in the plains, not in the forest regions, and that the climate is dry steppe.
:http://www.wiley.com/college/sc/deblij/1.pdf
:Read the information and look at the map on the sites, and then I have a feeling that you do not understand what you write. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Paulandys|Paulandys]] ([[User talk:Paulandys|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Paulandys|contribs]]) 15:33, 7 August 2016 (UTC)</span></small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::Do you know which book the pdf is from? It appears to be chapter one of one the following two books:[http://www.wiley.com//college/sc/deblij/books.html]
::*''Geography: Realms, Regions, and Concepts'', by H.J. de Blij, Peter Muller and Jan Nijman, pub Wiley, 16th Edition
::*''The World Today: Concepts and Regions in Geography'', by H.J. de Blij, Peter Muller and Jan Nijman, pub Wiley, 6th Edition
::Whichever it it, the map on page 45 supports a statement that the climate is BSk for Dnepropetrovsk and also cities on the Black Sea coast of Ukraine.
::Nevertheless, other sources paint a different view. For example [http://koeppen-geiger.vu-wien.ac.at/present.htm ''World Map of the Köppen-Geiger Climate Classification updated''], has a link [http://koeppen-geiger.vu-wien.ac.at/data/Koeppen-Geiger-ASCII.zip underlying data]. This zip-archive contains one text file (ASCII text with CRLF line terminators) including the climate classification on a regular 0.5 degree lat/lon grid for the period 1951 to 2000. Dnipropetrovsk is 48°27′N 34°59′, and the nearest data point in the table of underlying data is: 48.25 34.75, which is Dfb.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 18:30, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
{{User talk:Toddy1/climate}}
When I calculated the Köppen-Geiger climate classifications from climate data and the Köppen-Geiger climate classification formulae I got the following results
* Dnepropetrovsk: Dfa
* [[Krivoy Rog]]: Dfa
* [[Zaporozhye]]: Dfa
* [[Sevastopol]]: Cfa
--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 20:13, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
:*With regards to the data that Toddy1 mentioned, it is from 1951–2000 (based on the journal article under the "Data and method" section), which is why it would have a Dfb climate back then (the old [ftp://ftp.atdd.noaa.gov/pub/GCOS/WMO-Normals/TABLES/REG_VI/UP/34504.TXT 1961–1990 data] shows it as Dfb since the July mean temperature is only 21.2). The Dfa is based on the new data from 1981–2010. I also would like to point out that some steppe areas such as most of the prairies in Canada are classified as continental rather than steppe (BSk) so just because it is located in a plains does not necessary mean that it has a BSk climate (this is probably one of the shortcomings of the system but this is just my opinion). Citation 2 and 3 are not reliable as citation 1 since citation 1 mentions the methodology used to derive the map and the data sources while sources 2 and 3 fail to mention on how they come up with the map. I checked the Peel et al source ([http://www.hydrol-earth-syst-sci.net/11/1633/2007/hess-11-1633-2007.pdf]) and similar to the citation 1, most of Ukraine falls under the Dfb zone with a small patch of Dfa and Cfa in the south. Again the source has a detailed methodology in generating the map so these 2 sources are reliable compared to citation 2 and 3. Regarding citation 2, the methodology is subjective for rainfall, using terms such as "heavy wet all year" and "minimal rainfall". What constitutes heavy rainfall year round and what is the threshold required for a place to have minimal rainfall? A similar question is also applied to what constitutes a "wet continental climate"? Also, source 2 overgeneralizes too much climates by saying how humid continental climates have evenly distributed rainfall even though places in Asia have a summer maxima in precipitation. Citation 3 is not as reliable as citation 1 and the Peel et al source. For the weatheronline source, they do not define "eastern inland areas" nor provide a map so I cannot be 100% sure if Dnipropetrovsk lies in the BSk zone. They also defined Cfa wrong since the warmest mean temp must be above 22, not below 22 as what the source says. [[User:Ssbbplayer|Ssbbplayer]] ([[User talk:Ssbbplayer|talk]]) 04:03, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Ssbbplayer}} Please could you suggest a wording for the article.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 15:19, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
::::{{ping|Toddy1}} This is my suggestion for the first sentence. It should be "Under the Köppen–Geiger climate classification system, Dnipropetrovsk has a [[humid continental climate]] (Dfa/Dfb) (citation 1 inserted here)". Citation 1 has good data. Personally, I think this [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dnipropetrovsk&oldid=733401851 version] is the best. Again, being in a plains does not necessary mean that it is semi–arid. It is just on the drier side of the humid continental climate regime. I choose Dfa/Dfb since it is a borderline case as the mean temp in the warmest month in the 1981-2010 period is just above 22 (while older period of references such as the 1961-1990 and 1951-2000 are slightly below 22). [[User:Ssbbplayer|Ssbbplayer]] ([[User talk:Ssbbplayer|talk]]) 15:36, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
| |||