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::On the Citation [[User:Oreratile1207|Oreratile1207]] ([[User talk:Oreratile1207|talk]]) 19:41, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
:::Now I'm ''really'' confused. Which citation? But from your two posts here, it looks like you are asking for help about using or editing Wikipedia. This is not the right place: you should post at [[WP:HD|the help desk]], but you will need to state where (such as: which article, which section) you are experiencing difficulty. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 19:45, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
== Help-page guidance re: parenthetical referencing ==
{{u|Biogeographist}} has taken both the time and the initiative to improve this help page both generally, and specifically by removing the parenthetical reference examples in the wake of [[Special:PermanentLink/976895063#Deprecate parenthetical citations|their recent deprecation]].
(And if I might be permitted to editorialize...)
<div style="margin-left: 0.5em; background-color: #e0f00020;">Biogeographist was one of the more vocal opponents of the proposed deprecation. Ultimately, it was determined that [[WP:CON|consensus]] went the other way.
* For a proposal's opponents to accept and abide by the proposed deprecation is simply what's expected of all Wikipedians.
* <p>Taking action to implement such decisions is also the norm for both supporters and opponents among Wikipedia's dedicated core of contributors, including Biogeographist (as these recent edits reaffirm). The community enjoys a long history of respecting consensus above both personal opinion and ego.</p><p>(There's no shortage of history demonstrating the complete opposite, of course. But I like to think that as a group, we generally take our ideals to heart and strive to embody them.)</p>
* But for an editor to then take the opportunity, in the course of performing those necessary edits, to also make sweeping improvements to the ''rest'' of the page, goes above-and-beyond.
In summary, we are an awesome community of which Biogeographist is an awesome example, and we should all be proud of how terrifically awesome we are. Thank you for attending my TED Talk.</div>
Regarding parenthetical references, though, the implementation plan for the deprecation proposed by {{u|CaptainEek}} was outlined by {{u|Francis Schonken}} thusly:
{{tqb|by=Francis Schonken|I suppose a proposal to implement the proposed deprecation at [[WP:CITEVAR]] might look somewhat like this:{{Talk quote block| Add a bullet to [[WP:CITEVAR#Generally considered helpful]]:
* Converting [[Wikipedia:Parenthetical referencing|parenthetical references]] to numbered footnotes, unless either 1 or 2 below, or both, apply:
*# The article is about a topic for which, in reliable sources, parenthetical references are commonly used, and there is an established consensus on the article's talk page that the article will only use parenthetical references.
*# The conversion creates a mess.}}
This implementation proposal seeks a middle way between very hard implementation ideas (e.g., deprecate outright and/or enforce by bot) and softer implementation ideas (e.g. only deprecate for new pages), both directions already being elaborated in the survey area below.}}
I concur that this strikes a good balance and provides a reasonable way forward on existing articles containing the now-deprecated reference style. However, given that some parenthetical referencing will remain in Wikipedia articles (or at least small pockets of them) for the foreseeable future, there's a reasonable chance for any editor to encounter those references at some point. So, I'm wondering if this help page should still make ''mention'' of the fact that some articles may contain references in a now-deprecated format, and what the options are in making new edits to those articles. Perhaps just a quick one-sentence note linked to the updated section of [[WP:CITEVAR]]? (NOT, by any means, to the deprecation discussion/decision itself!)
I understand the need to keep things simple, and to generally avoid creating confusion for new/inexperienced ones with documentation on how things ''aren't'' supposed to be done (anymore). There's no question in my mind that the help page should no longer provide '''examples''' in the deprecated format. My only concern is whether we should try to prepare editors who may encounter parenthetical references "in the wild", as that could otherwise be a source of confusion as well? -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 13:00, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
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