Wikipedia talk:Help Project/Archive 4: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 20:45, 30 October 2019

Revision as of 09:56, 14 December 2020

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== A renewed effort on the [[Help:Intro]] series ==

Hello all,

I've done an overhaul of the [[Help:Introduction_to_the_Manual_of_Style/1|Intro to MoS]] pages. I'm hoping to further update and improve the [[Help:Intro]] series and merge in some of the disparate help pages into the relevant Help:Intro pages (e.g. [[Wikipedia:Simplified Manual of Style|this]] and [[Help:Referencing for beginners with citation templates|this]]). They already cover more up-to-date versions of all the info in [[WP:Tutorial]]. I'm hoping to eventually supercede the older tutorial, since I think it's off-putting and unhelpful to newcomers. [[User:Evolution and evolvability|T.Shafee(Evo<small>&#38;</small>Evo)]]^{[[User talk:Evolution and evolvability|talk]]} 22:24, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

== Failure of coordination: Screenshot updates and Publish changes button ==

Because nobody seemed willing or able to coordinate the updating of all the Help Pages across en.Wikipedia following WMF's name change of the "Save changes" button to "Publish changes" last year, I've taken this task upon myself. It's taken days of rooting around and cajoling, but I think the job is now completed with my replacement yesterday of old, out-of-date screenshots for all but the most obscure processes or protected templates. Maintenance list [[User:Nick Moyes/sandbox/Updates still needed for Publish changes|here]]

Will somebody now take responsibility for checking my work, please?

I would add that we have had months of new user confusion at the Help Desks because of this issue, and that really ought not to have occurred. There is now the additional matter of ensuring a clear distinction in the minds of new editors between "Publish changes" and "publish" to mainspace. I've added a note to the front of the VE guide to that effect. Where else should it go? Could it be improved? I have also copied this post to [[Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback]] Regards from the UK, [[User:Nick Moyes|Nick Moyes]] ([[User talk:Nick Moyes|talk]]) 11:40, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

== Proposal to overhaul [[WP:I]] and [[WP:T]] ==

I've put up a [[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_146#An_update_of_the_default_introduction_&_tutorial_to_Help:Introduction|proposal at the Village Pump]] to replace the old [[WP:I]] and [[WP:T]] with the superior [[Help:Intro]]. Any opinions welcomed there. [[User:Evolution and evolvability|T.Shafee(Evo<small>&#38;</small>Evo)]]^{[[User talk:Evolution and evolvability|talk]]} 02:41, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

:There are some very interesting help related comments and suggestions in that discussion [[user:leevanjackson|Lee&there4;V]] 21:36, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

== Slight issue ==

So, I prefer to use a black background with green text, as it's easier on my eyes. ''However'', in the last couple of days it's messed up. The the Wikipedia background, '''not''' the article background has been black. The article background has been white, with green text. Just thought it should be reported to someone. ^{(talk page stalker)} '''[[User:Crash Underride|<b style="color:#008caf">Crash</b>]][[User talk:Crash_Underride|<b style="color:#6000c6">Under</b>]][[Special:Contributions/Crash Underride|<b style="color:#6000c6">ride</b>]]''' 14:10, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

:{{Re|Crash Underride}} Someone's asked the same question at [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Bizarre display with green text/black screen gadget]], so I suggest you watch for replies there. -- [[User:John of Reading|John of Reading]] ([[User talk:John of Reading|talk]]) 15:17, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

:{{ec}} {{replyto|Crash Underride}} This is not a place to ask for help, it is the [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] for discussing improvements to the page [[:Wikipedia:Help Project]]. You will probably get advice at [[WP:VPT]]; and it would be best if you mention that you are using the blackskin gadget. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 15:19, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

== Removal of maintenance templates after an RFC concludes ==

I invite input at [[Help_talk:Maintenance_template_removal#Template_removal_after_conclusion_of_an_RFC|Help talk:Maintenance template removal]], for clarifying the text about whether disputed maintenance templates should be removed after an RFC on the issue has concluded. [[User:Alsee|Alsee]] ([[User talk:Alsee|talk]]) 00:06, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

== Growth team is looking for your feedback and ideas ==

Hello!

Have you heard about [[mw:Growth|Growth team]]?&nbsp;

The Growth Team's objective is to work on software changes that help retain new contributors in [[mw:New Editor Experiences/Midsize Wikipedias|mid-size]] Wikimedia projects. We will be starting with Wikipedias, but we hope these changes will benefit every community.

We are contacting your project today, because you may be interested by what we work on.

'''8 ideas we consider: tell us what you think about them!'''

We are considering new features to build, that could retain new editors in mid-size Wikipedias.&nbsp;We will be testing new ideas in Czech and Korean Wikipedias, and then we'll talk to more communities (yours!) about adopting the ideas that work well.

[[mw:Growth/Discussing potential Growth ideas|We have posted the 8 ideas we are considering]]. We would really appreciate your thoughts and the thoughts from your community. Please share the ideas, and [[mw:Talk:Growth/Discussing potential Growth ideas|tell us]] what do you and your community think of those ideas before September 9.

'''Share your experiences with newcomers'''

We want to hear about what is working and what is not working for new contributors in your wiki. We also want to hear any reactions, questions, or opinions on our work. Please post on the [[mw:Talk:Growth|team’s talk page]], in any language!

'''Learn more about us'''

You can visit [[mw:Growth|our team page]] to find out why our team was formed and how we are thinking about new editors, and [[mw:Growth/Project 2018 Q1|our project page]] for detailed updates on the first project we'll work on.

'''Get updates on your project page'''

The [[mw:Growth/Newsletters|Growth team's newsletter]] will provide updates regularly. You can [[m:Global message delivery/Targets/Growth team updates|subscribe to it]].

On behalf of the Growth team, [[mw:User:Trizek (WMF)|Trizek (WMF)]] ([[mw:User talk:Trizek (WMF)|talk]]) 13:35, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

== Feedback for [[User:Citation bot/use]] ==

I just gave this page a major revamp. It could look a fresh pair of eyes, especially from users that never used [[User:Citation bot]] before. Please give feedback at [[User talk:Citation bot/use]]. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;">[[User:Headbomb|Headbomb]] {[[User talk:Headbomb|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Headbomb|c]] · [[WP:PHYS|p]] · [[WP:WBOOKS|b]]}</span> 03:03, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

==Feedback on the article==

I just checked the wikilink [[Wikipedia:Annotated article]] and looked for advice on the sectioning of referencing /notes/bibliography. The article is a car crash, and technically wrong. It takes a 2007 article on a US railway topic and gives advice. Clicking links takes us to the 2018 version of that article, and that has multiple-issue warnings. Glancing at the list of useful advice; it takes us to a raft outdated (say pre- 2015) articles. If anyone is working in this area can I ask you to look at each one. --[[User:ClemRutter|ClemRutter]] ([[User talk:ClemRutter|talk]]) 13:13, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

== proposal to remove IRC chat information from [[Wikipedia:Questions]] ==

I have made a proposal to remove IRC chat information from [[Wikipedia:Questions]]. You can discuss it at [[Wikipedia talk:Questions#Proposal to remove IRC chat from this page]] and I will be removing the information shortly if no other people show up to discuss it. Thanks [[User:Seahawk01|Seahawk01]] ([[User talk:Seahawk01|talk]]) 03:47, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

== Edits to [[Help:Convert]] ==

Consulting [[Help:Convert#Quick start]], I found much of it confusing or possibly inadequate. I've made {{Diff|Help:Convert|880309326|oldid=857714082|label=a number of edits}} there. Please check them over and correct any goofs I may have made, and {{tl|ping}} me when you do so. Thanks! --[[User:Thnidu|Thnidu]] ([[User talk:Thnidu|talk]]) 18:47, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

== "Magic" DISPLAYTITLE template, please update information ==

[[:Template:DISPLAYTITLE]]: Instructions for this template, and documentation templates including it i.e. [[:Template:Correct title examples]], still refer to a totally non-explanatory help page on meta. I would have rewritten it, ''but I am not totally sure what it does!'' I suspect it searches a page for a string of characters and substitutes each instance with another defined string, i.e. non-standard cApiTalS, but it doesn't quite say that. <span style="font-size: small; text-shadow: #d9be47 2em 0.1em 0.3em,#141d97 0.2em 0.1em 0.3em,#2c747b 0.1em -0.1em 0.2em;color:#2b70b7"><small>^{~^\}\_\.[[User:RTG|r]][[User_Talk:RTG|T]]</small>[[Special:Contributions/RTG|G]]</span>'{~ 11:31, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

:{{ping|RTG}} Is [[WP:DISPLAYTITLE]] easier to understand? I have added a link to the documentation of [[Template:DISPLAYTITLE]].[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:DISPLAYTITLE/doc&diff=890284884&oldid=886613072] [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 11:47, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

::{{re|PrimeHunter}} It seems to say the template affects the title above the lead section. If that is the case, I am suggesting that starting with the nutshell on DISPLAYTITLE and clicking the link [[fullpagename]], along with those unfamiliar multicolour pastel highlights, and links to non-descriptive meta sections which link to unrevealing phabricator entries, is probably... Um, I'm going to edit them all so they say this template is used to display a different title than is in the address bar, and/or when you need to display a different title than is in the address bar, use this template unless I am again mistaken. Thanks PrimeHunter. <span style="font-size: small; text-shadow: #d9be47 2em 0.1em 0.3em,#141d97 0.2em 0.1em 0.3em,#2c747b 0.1em -0.1em 0.2em;color:#2b70b7"><small>^{~^\}\_\.[[User:RTG|r]][[User_Talk:RTG|T]]</small>[[Special:Contributions/RTG|G]]</span>'{~ 13:04, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

:::<code><nowiki>{{DISPLAYTITLE}}</nowiki></code> is not a template, it is a [[H:MW#Behavior switches|behaviour switch]]. As such, it shouldn't be documented as if it were a template, that is misleading and leads to confusion. Its entry [[H:MW#Behavior switches|here]] already has a link to [[WP:DISPLAYTITLE]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 15:52, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

::::Maybe, but it is a template at the moment, and it is documented in the template way, so I have edited it. It's just a copyedit basically. The coloured parts are now more obvious, the nutshell is a nutshell, and I believe the lead sentence is conveying what it was intended to, o7 <span style="font-size: small; text-shadow: #d9be47 2em 0.1em 0.3em,#141d97 0.2em 0.1em 0.3em,#2c747b 0.1em -0.1em 0.2em;color:#2b70b7"><small>^{~^\}\_\.[[User:RTG|r]][[User_Talk:RTG|T]]</small>[[Special:Contributions/RTG|G]]</span>'{~ 19:38, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

:::::It is ''not'' a template. With templates, the first parameter is separated from the template name using a pipe; with behaviour switches, it's a colon. This uses a colon: <code><nowiki>{{DISPLAYTITLE:<span style="color:red;">Wikipedia</span> talk:''Help'' Project}}</nowiki></code>{{DISPLAYTITLE:<span style="color:red;">Wikipedia</span> talk:''Help'' Project}} and its effects may be seen at the top. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 22:10, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

::::::For me C++ is a foreign language, though I used to speak some Basic and HTML. In English, a template is a temporary overlay, or a preformed base. I consider this an overlay of sorts in the ''output'', but really I just mean that it says, "Template:" at the top of the page.

::::::However yes, you have stirred some understanding. My interest is piqued. In the template function there are often colon or pipe char after the function name, and thus determines the route of the code thereafter. It sinks. I joyfully bleed understanding. I look up expectantly, but C++ remains a mystery, tugging on my vision, a point somewhere near the top of the mountain. I wrench myself away and continue my journey marching toward Avalon, my eyes on the ground and the horizon, but my head in the sky, filled with anime visions. <span style="font-size: small; text-shadow: #d9be47 2em 0.1em 0.3em,#141d97 0.2em 0.1em 0.3em,#2c747b 0.1em -0.1em 0.2em;color:#2b70b7"><small>^{~^\}\_\.[[User:RTG|r]][[User_Talk:RTG|T]]</small>[[Special:Contributions/RTG|G]]</span>'{~ 13:54, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

:::::::It doesn't say "Template:" at the top of the page. The page where this behaviour switch is described is [[Help:Magic words]]. It is a Help page, in Help space. Not in template space. It's not a template. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 19:18, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

::::::::It's confusing to many users. In MediaWiki and therefore in Wikipedia discussions and documentation, a template is an editable wiki page in the template namespace. The page name starts with "Template:" in the English Wikipedia. Templates are created by editors of the wiki. Templates don't exist from the start when MediaWiki is installed on a server. [[:Template:DISPLAYTITLE]] is a template which happens (on purpose) to have the same name as the magic word <code><nowiki>{{DISPLAYTITLE}}</nowiki></code>. The latter uses syntax similar to templates but is ''not'' a template. Magic words are part of the MediaWiki software at installation and cannot be deleted or edited by users. <code><nowiki>{{DISPLAYTITLE:title}}</nowiki></code> with a colon applies the magic word and doesn't know or care whether a template by the same name exists. <code><nowiki>{{DISPLAYTITLE|title}}</nowiki></code> with a pipe is no longer the magic word but a template call. The MediaWiki developers chose very similar syntax for templates and some of the magic words. <code><nowiki>{{DISPLAYTITLE}}</nowiki></code> with no parameter refers by MediaWiki definition to the magic word and not the template, but there is never reason to use <code><nowiki>{{DISPLAYTITLE}}</nowiki></code> without a parameter. If you want to call a template with the same name as a magic word without using a parameter then you can say <code><nowiki>{{Template:DISPLAYTITLE}}</nowiki></code>. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 21:22, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

:::::::::Ah, I see! {{ping|PrimeHunter}}, thanks for this informative comment. When you wrote that "''The MediaWiki developers chose very similar syntax for templates and some of the magic words''", you revealed the source of much confusion. Design choices are not about function alone, but also about usability. Had a different syntax been chosen for magic words, say using '''<nowiki>{[…]}</nowiki>''' delimiters (or '''<nowiki>{/…\}</nowiki>''', or '''<nowiki>««…»»</nowiki>''', or whatever would work without also breaking the parsing of existing syntax), we might have fewer problems understanding what we're looking at. Yes, that's right, '''humans also read syntax''', not just machines! Should I take this up on MediaWiki, perhaps? But the magic words help page has other problems as well, which I'll address in a new section. [[User:Yahya Abdal-Aziz|yoyo]] ([[User talk:Yahya Abdal-Aziz|talk]]) 01:11, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

== Submit your proposals for Community Growth at Wikimania before June 1! ==

Hello,

[http://wikimania.wikimedia.org/ Wikimania 2019] is organized into 19 “[[wmania:2019:Submissions#Spaces|spaces]]”, which are all accepting proposals for sessions. This email comes from the team organizing the [[wmania:2019:Community_Growth|Community Growth space]].

We would like to invite you to submit a proposal to the Community Growth space because of the actions you’ve done around newcomers on wikis. The [[wmania:2019:Submissions|deadline for submission]] is '''June 1'''. See below for Community Growth submission topics and session formats. Topics and sessions have to be in English.

In the Community Growth space, we will come together for discussions, presentations, and workshops that address these questions:

* What is and is not working around attracting and retaining newcomers?

* How should Wikimedia activities evolve to help communities grow and flourish?

* How should our technology and culture evolve to help new populations to come online, participate and become community members?

'''Recommended topics.''' While proposals related to all aspects of community growth and newcomer experience are welcome, the organizing team is particularly interested in proposals related to:

* ''Research on recruitment, activation and retention.''

* ''Technological approaches''

* ''On- and off-wiki engagement strategies''

* ''Supporting diversity and cross-cultural newcomer experiences''

* ''Lessons learned from beyond Wikimedia, and''

* ''The future of newcomers and editing''

If you are interested in seeing presentations around additional topics, but do not plan to submit a proposal, you can [[wmania:2019:Community_Growth#Topics_suggested_by_community_members|suggest additional topics here]].

If your topic does not fit into our space, remember that there are [[wmania:2019:Submissions|18 other spaces]] that could welcome you sharing your knowledge and perspective.

'''Types of session.''' We prefer sessions that are participatory, interactive, promote conversations, and give a voice to parts of our movement that are heard less often. We welcome the following session formats:

* ''Roundtable discussion''

* ''Panel discussion''

* ''Lightning talk''

* ''Working session''

* ''Teaching session''

* ''Conference presentation''

'''Poster submissions.''' Posters are also a good way to introduce a topic, or show some results of an action. Please consider [[wmania:2019:Poster_session|submitting one]]!

More information about the Community Growth space, topics, and submission formats is available [[wmania:2019:Community_Growth|on the proposal page]].

[[wmania:2019:Community_Growth|Please submit your proposal]]. The reviews will happen at the beginning of June.

If you have questions about Wikimania in general, please ask them [[wmania:2019:Attendance|on the Wikimania wiki]].

Sincerely,<br />

[[User:Trizek (WMF)|Trizek (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Trizek (WMF)|talk]]) 13:05, 14 May 2019 (UTC)<br />

On behalf of the Community Growth leadership team

== Question about [[Help:Talk pages]] ==

Hello, Help Project participants. Please see my question at [[Help talk:Talk pages#An example of a talk page]]. —⁠[[User:Andrybak|andrybak]] ([[User talk:Andrybak|talk]]) 09:46, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

== Very wide template "Inline talk templates" ==

Greetings, Wondering if {{tl|Inline talk templates}} can be changed to a narrower format? It is very wide and requires horizontal scrolling to follow a line across the display. Any improvement is way beyond me & requires expert help. Regards, [[User:JoeHebda|JoeHebda]] ([[User talk:JoeHebda|talk]]) 12:47, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

:I followed the link you provided, it doesn't exhibit any width problem that I can see. It's just an ordinary dab page. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 18:04, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

::Fixed the link, it should have been the {{tl|tl}} template but was mistakenly put as a link instead. I'm not sure what the best way to redesign that template would be, but agree that the current layout isn't optimal. [[User:the wub|the wub]] [[User_talk:The wub|<span style="color: #008000">"?!"</span>]] 23:03, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

== Portal:Contents is really a portal? ==

It has been proposed that [[Portal:Contents]] its subpages and [[Portal:Featured content]] be moved to Wikipedia space and in the discussion came the possibility of moving to Help space. We would like to hear this wikiproject.

See [[Portal talk:Contents#Requested move 9 October 2019]].[[User:Guilherme Burn|Guilherme Burn]] ([[User talk:Guilherme Burn|talk]]) 21:22, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

== Request for information on WP1.0 web tool ==

Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the [[User:WP_1.0_bot|WP 1.0 Bot]]! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the [[:toolforge:enwp10/cgi-bin/pindex.fcgi|web tool]] that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.

We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at [https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScK30kJtKQ3cp-QLY1VJhB94HP2q6437Cdk3E2rVRYHowcL4A/viewform?usp=sf_link this Google form] where you can leave your response. [[User:Walkerma|Walkerma]] ([[User talk:Walkerma|talk]]) 04:23, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

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