Talk:Trinity (nuclear test)
It would be more accurate to say that the Trinity Site was between the towns of Carrizozo and San Antonio, New Mexico. The latter is the closest town to the site.
"Popular culture"
I have to admit a strong bias: I can't stand the "In popular culture" sections which become a hodgepodge for every time a major historical event or theme is mentioned in a TV show, movie, Japanese cartoon, rock song, or science fiction novel (the nuclear weapon entry suffers from this somewhat, and the mad scientist entry had to be have a separate list created because people glutted up the page in an attempt to to add in every instance in "popular culture" of a "mad scientist" character.. so useless). I removed the following text:
In popular culture
- The HBO television series Carnivale makes frequent reference to the Trinity site, initially in the pilot episode and now setting up the testing as a possible culmination point for the series.
Is there a compelling reason to add this? Does it improve the article? Does it improve our understanding of the article? I think that the article for the show should mention that it talks about the Trinity test, and link back here. I don't think such links need to be reciprocal, though. But I understand this is just a matter of taste. Let me know if you seriously think this is really necessary for an understanding of what "Trinity site" is about. --Fastfission 17:49, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- leave it out. - Omegatron 19:55, May 15, 2005 (UTC)
Atmospheric ignition
Multiple sources have said that there were real fears of the blast triggering a Ice-9 type transition - in this case, igniting the atmosphere (!). If someone would be able to verify this as real or fake, it should make a very interesting addition... -- Kizor 21:23, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- From Nuclear explosion:
- In 1945 there was some initial speculation among the scientists developing the first nuclear weapons that there might be a possibility of igniting the earth's atmosphere with a large enough nuclear explosion. This would concern a nuclear reaction of two nitrogen atoms forming a carbon and an oxygen atom, with release of energy. This energy would heat up the remaining nitrogen enough to keep the reaction going until all nitrogen were finished. This was, however, quickly shown to be unlikely enough to be considered impossible [1]. Nevertheless, the notion has persisted as a rumor for many years.
- --Fastfission 00:56, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
Oppenheimer's hindu quote
The article states that ""Now I am become Death, the Destroyer of worlds." was a misquote by Oppenheimer. Can anyone say what the correct quote should have been? -Lethe | Talk 03:21, May 5, 2005 (UTC)
- Well, it depends on the translation. But most of them do "I am become Time" rather than "Death", I believe. I added a reference to an article by Hiyija which goes into it in (a ton of) detail. --Fastfission 04:27, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
Trinity anniversary!
The 60th anniversary of the Trinity shot will be coming up on July 16, 2005 (two months from now). Let's try to get this article up to featured status by that time, as there are likely to be lots of news stories about the shot and lots of people searching google for more information! An ideal article on this might be structured like so:
- Reason for the testing (two paragraph history of the Manhattan Project up to this point, uncertainty of the implosion method)
- Preparation for the testing itself (finding the site, clearing out the locals, Jumbo, 100T pre-test, Laurence's letter, naming the test, etc.)
- The test (the gadget, weather, assembling the bomb, the countdown, detonation)
- Reactions to the test (scientists' reactions, Oppenheimer's quote, etc.)
- Beyond the test (used by Truman at Potsdam, clearing out the rubble, Trinitite, the iconic photography)
- Trinity today (atomic tourism, in culture, symbolism)
Let's work to put something like this together! I'm also thinking that we might want to rename it to "Trinity test" rather than just the "site", but I'm not sure it matters heavily. But it is a thought. --Fastfission 18:52, 15 May 2005 (UTC) /draft +Bethe's determination of the feasibility of the method? +Univ of Calif. workshop on the bomb? +Atomic everything (cocktail waitresses, etc. -- Lew Kowarski )? Would this be on a subpage? Ancheta Wis 01:26, 16 May 2005 (UTC) July 16, 1945 05:45:29 AM, Mountain War Time
- Certainly the whole "it won't work/oh wait maybe it will" etc. problems would be a wonderful addition (plays up for drama well). I'm not sure the Berkeley workshop is entirely germane -- it is less connected with Trinity than it is the MP as a whole. I'm not sure "atomic everything" would apply except so much as it related to Trinity itself -- the famous "blob" picture (Brixner) and that one famous color one (Aeby), and the incessant quoting ("I am become Death"), etc. would be, though. And one thing I would add to the above list is the way it was released to the public: after Hiroshima, and pictures not until later. --Fastfission 01:55, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
+OK, sign me up. I'm going to a bookstore to get Bethe's memoir, and will get started on that aspect of it (unless someone wants to do this part). But the man who simply said "It worked" afterward also had afterthoughts which are germane to the present day. You might also send a note to the political scientists who might enjoy adding commentary, or at least a link to articles about the commentary. There might also be links to the exact section of the Bhagavad Gita#Revelation of the Supreme with the "Sunburst of a Thousand Suns" phrase, etc. Ancheta Wis 10:02, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
The Carrizozo Malpais has a satellite picture of the ___location of Trinity site. There is a Map-it macro with some images of the site and terrain. This area is amazing, by the way. The White Sands, the Black Malpais, with Sierra Blanca overlooking the area (yes, you can ski there), the Apache reservation, I am not sure if the Stealth Fighter wing will get closed down (probably not). Sunspot NM -- there are 2 solar observatories about 50 miles away. Ancheta Wis 10:34, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
I'd like an aerial view of the crater. I added the coordinates so it's veiwable on google satellite but i'm sure there's some public ___domain pictures available somewhere. - Omegatron 23:20, May 17, 2005 (UTC)
- Well, the crater doesn't exist anymore -- it was bulldozed over a long time ago. However there are some common aerial photos juxtaposing the Trinity test explosion and the 100T explosion in terms of magnitude which I'm sure were taken during the Manhattan Project and in the public ___domain. I'll try to dig up a good picture for a good hi-res scan. --Fastfission 00:53, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
- Yeah, right afterwards wuold be better than this. - Omegatron 02:16, May 18, 2005 (UTC)
- The basic one I am talking about is this one (also here) but I'm not happy with any of the copies I have seen online. I think I know where I can find a much higher resolution version, but it will take me a few weeks to get back in town where I can access it. The large black crater was the Trinity blast, the smaller explosion to the south-east of it was the crater of 100 tons of TNT. --Fastfission 04:17, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
- Yeah, right afterwards wuold be better than this. - Omegatron 02:16, May 18, 2005 (UTC)
