Every time info on the alleged Ustase genocide of Jews and others during World War II, someone deletes it.Mbstone
STOP EDITING THIS PAGE PLZ I WILL GET TO THE GENOCIDE
- Please fix your Caps-Lock key. That article isn't yours, so everyone can edit it. And don't edit by deleting, edit by writing NPOV text. If you don't want to do that, go away. andy 12:18, 6 Aug 2003 (UTC)
STOP EDITTING IT User:ZA_DOM
- Congratulations, "ZA_DOM", your mindlessness has apparently succeeded in allowing the extreme Serb viewpoint to take precedence. Great work :P --Shallot 15:57, 10 Sep 2003 (UTC)
(1) The article, as written, is anti-Catholic. Was the Catholic church entirely pro-Ustase during the war?
- Certainly most Catholic believers were not pro-Ustase. But that is not what is written. Exact nature of connections with Catholic Church is explained in detail and if anyone draws conclusion that entire church was pro-Ustase it's his own. Nikola 20:19, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC)
- Yeah, even though we lead them to that conclusion, it's their fault if they make it! We're just innocently throwing around malicious insinuations! --Shallot 15:57, 10 Sep 2003 (UTC)
- What are you talking about? Are you really saying that you believe that this article could lead anyone who reads it to conclusion that entire Catholic Church was pro-Ustase? If yes, could you explain why do you believe that? Nikola 17:59, 10 Sep 2003 (UTC)
(2) No one person owns a Wikipedia article. As it says on every edit page, "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here." Vicki Rosenzweig 15:05, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC)
- The leaders of the church were in fact pro-Ustase. See, for example, Dedijer's book "Jasenovac", which provides a lot of evidence on the subject, including tons of photos of church leaders posing with mass murderers. While anti-fascists were excommunicated internationally, the genocide happened in direct cooperation with the Franciscans and in full knowledge of the Vatican.
- While I agree that the Catholic Church is an organization resembling a corporation in its opportunism at times, there's another side of that coin, too: http://www.hr/darko/etf/jews.html
- --Shallot 15:57, 10 Sep 2003 (UTC)
- I believe the person writing the above is not the same who has edited the page recently. In fact, "ZA_DOM" has repeatedly tried to hide facts concerning the genocide from the article.—Eloquence 16:27, Aug 12, 2003 (UTC)
- Well, those who want to know about Ustase now have one to study. Za dom - Spremni is Ustase greeting, their version of Sieg - Heil. I'll add that to article :) Nikola 20:19, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC)
- Are you sure that Sieg Heil was used in a question-response fashion? -- Error
- No, but Za dom - Spremni could also be used by one person. Nikola 20:05, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Concerning the role of the Croat Catholic Church in WW II, I have yet to complete the list but you can grasp the level of support from this page: Croat_Catholic_Ustashi_clergy
- A bunch of assertions, although I can't help but admire your skill in manipulating history. --Shallot 15:57, 10 Sep 2003 (UTC)
- Again, are you saying that this page is manipulated, that what is described is not what happened? Nikola 17:59, 10 Sep 2003 (UTC)
You can catch up by doing some reading on the subject, John Loftus is good (Unholy Trinity and other workds re: Holocaust and Catholic links) if English is your language, the Croat Catholic Viktor Novak's masterpiece (Magnum Crimen: Pola vijeka klerikalizma na tlu Hrvatske) is in Serbo-Croat and deals with Croat Clericalism from 1900 till 1945 and was written in 1947 right after the war in order to document the many instance in which the Catholic Church not only cooperated but partook in some of the gory atrocities of the Ustasha/Ustashi regime.
Nikola Smolenski is right, 'Za dom spremni' was the Ustasha motto still being used by neo-Ustashis (and their glorifiers) in Croatia such as singer Marko Perkovic-Thompson.
Igor 19:20 ET (Greenwich 24:20), 13 Aug 2003