Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates
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Anschluss nomination removed
to Raul654: May I ask why this nomination was removed, although all objections have been adressed? As it was just behind the nomination for the Yom Kippur War and this article is now under Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Featured log/June 2005 I am a little bid irritated. Themanwithoutapast 02:01, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- After 6 days on the FAC, it had (as I saw it) 1 support (Martg76), and 1 objection (Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus) --- not consensus. If you want, I can put this nom back up for a few days, and see if it gathers a few more comments. →Raul654 02:13, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
- The objections of Piotrus have been addressed 5 days ago, however he has not responded yet. So I would appreciate it to have the article back up as a FAC. Thx. Themanwithoutapast 01:44, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Signed submissions
Proposal: As we have in VFD, only registered users should nominate and vote here.
- I've seen some nominations by anons and unsigned ones. While that itself is not a big problem if the article is good, I fear that if we have to discuss certain issues, we won't know who we are dealing with especially if s/he has a dynamic ip address. Also, that person might not make a commitment to addressing reviewers' objections if he is a casual visitor. To save everyone's time and energy, it would be best if only signed and registered users nominations appear here. =Nichalp (Talk)= 11:12, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)
No, I disagree. There's no reason why anons shouldn't be able to make nominations here, provided they sign. Generally speaking, anons are rare enough that if one particular article gets multiple comments from several nearby IPs, we'll know its the anon (proveded he signs his comments). →Raul654 16:54, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)
I am trying to help an anonymous user nominate this article. Something does not seem right, though. Please help out.--Wiglaf 09:42, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- I've just changed the heading level - I think that's what you were thinking of. violet/riga (t) 10:07, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- Yes, exactly. Thanks! :)--Wiglaf 10:17, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Extremely important problem!
Apparently, template:ref and template:note no longer works. Numerous featured articles have been "broken" (for lack of a better word) by this. I scheduled libertarianism (which uses the templates) for Monday, so I'd appreciate it if someone could fix the problem soon. →Raul654 16:56, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)
- Looks like a MediaWiki problem, not a template or CSS one. I have commented in more detail at your talk page. --cesarb 17:48, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- Ouch. I thought it had been changed so that some ordering was different, like scrubbing the HTML after the template expansion, or something like that. The MediaWiki parser seems to be a real problem... --cesarb 22:36, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- What needs to happen is that intrinsic events called through templates are disabled. I can speak with total disregard, as I don't have to implement this... Perhaps they can add something to put in a character entity code wherever an intrinsic event term crops up where not put in there by Mediawiki.
- smoddy 22:45, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- It's simpler than that; all " and ' characters found anywhere when expanding a template or a template parameter within an HTML attribute should be escaped to " and '. The hard part is to know when you are within an HTML attribute, since the parser is based on text matching and thus does not know its context. Brion has answered on his talk page, and said it's being tracked as bugzilla:2309. --cesarb 23:23, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- I changed libertarianism to the suggested list format for References, which makes it look better. The crosslinks for the references and notes are still broken because the generated id= fails, for reasons mentioned here. (SEWilco 03:58, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC))
- I changed it into an ordered list, and sorted it so the autogenerated number for the note and the reference number match. I believe {{ref}} and {{note}} were meant to be used this way. --cesarb 13:59, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- You are correct; matching autogenerated {{ref}} link numbers with Reference list numbers is the best way to use {{ref}} until an equivalent Citation tool exists. Helpful would be WikiSyntax for an anchor (easier to restrict than transclusion within HTML), but I'm not finding on MediaWiki an "article anchors wanted" discussion; [1] [2] [3] (SEWilco 20:11, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC))
- I changed it into an ordered list, and sorted it so the autogenerated number for the note and the reference number match. I believe {{ref}} and {{note}} were meant to be used this way. --cesarb 13:59, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Brilliant Prose revisited
I still feel there needs to be some mechanism to recognise excellent articles that aren't/can't be featured, since certain articles are apparently beyond consideration for FA status. Exploding Boy 17:06, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
- I'm curious - what do you mean by articles that can't be featured - without intending to provoke (yet another) argument, it's been pretty much decided that any VFD-survivable article can be featured, even if it shouldn't go on the main page. →Raul654 17:47, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
- I took it to mean articles that don't necessarily meet all of the criteria for becoming an FA, like missing references or images. But, I don't know of any reason why an article with brilliant prose couldn't be made into an FA eventually. I see the recognition as someone coming along to add the missing requirements and getting the article featured. slambo 18:10, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
- m:Instruction creep. Let's not make this too complicated, eh? smoddy 18:19, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- I took it to mean articles that don't necessarily meet all of the criteria for becoming an FA, like missing references or images. But, I don't know of any reason why an article with brilliant prose couldn't be made into an FA eventually. I see the recognition as someone coming along to add the missing requirements and getting the article featured. slambo 18:10, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
Two submissions
I want to submit two related articles at one go. The problem is that the boundaries between the two articles are vaguely defined and some content of the two articles will overlap. Indian Railways (the only railways in India) and Rail transport in India. [Work on both articles unfinshed as of now]. How do I feature both? =Nichalp (Talk)= 19:09, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC)
- I suggested you get one finished (with well established boundaries as to what is should or should not contain), then work on the other, before nominating either. →Raul654 20:02, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC)
When was Mass Rapid Transit (Singapore) promoted?
In looking through WP:FA, I noticed Mass Rapid Transit (Singapore) in the list as one I hadn't seen there before. I don't remember seeing this one go through the nomination process and I don't see anything in the Featured Log for it. When was this article promoted? slambo 13:46, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)
The article talk page says they hope to work it up to featured status, mabye someone over enthuastic added it to the list.--nixie 13:57, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- The when was Jun 11, 2005 (as shown in this diff). As it appears to not have gone through FAC first, I have been bold and removed it from the list. --Allen3 talk 14:12, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, that's what I thought had happened. slambo 14:29, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)
Interesting little statistic
Today, the last day of June, is the 181st day of 2005; to date this year, we have produced a net increase of 181 featured articles -- exactly 1 new one per day. →Raul654 June 30, 2005 07:40 (UTC)
Also, for those who are consider this bad news -- bear in mind that the quality of the featured articles has gone up substantially over the past 18 months, so there's hidden increase in value per article. →Raul654 June 30, 2005 07:47 (UTC)
Deryck C
This guy is voting strong opposition to most FACs because he doesn't consider them as famous (on Norman Borlaug: "We Asians have NEVER heard about this guy") or they are too long (on Bertrand Russell: "Object, yes, long, long, too long. Nobody will be interested to read an article of 7919 words."). Can we just not take his votes into consideration? Am I being too harsh? Harro5 June 30, 2005 23:04 (UTC)
He doesn't appear to have read the criteria and it's his first time voting, votes that are inactionable, like he's not famous enough, are generally not counted.--nixie 30 June 2005 23:09 (UTC)
Petaholes/Nixie is right -- if his objections are inactionable, let him know it. His comments on the central asia nom "Oppose at the moment. The contents are good and the article body is well-written, however the introduction is definitely too long. --Deryck C. 2005-06-30 15:33:28 (UTC)" are a valid objection, but from a quick survey, most of the rest are not -- these are ones I ignore. →Raul654 June 30, 2005 23:12 (UTC)
- Thanks for the clarification guys. I did leave him a message on his talk page re: inactionable votes. Harro5 July 1, 2005 05:44 (UTC)
Discussion of Current/Past FA's
I can't seem to find an archive of the discussions of proposed FA status of past featured articles. I'm curious about the discussion about today's FA. Cigarette 1 July 2005 13:09 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Vanilla Ninja. I try to avoid participating on WP:FA, so I probably don't have the moral right to comment, but does today's FA really "exemplify Wikipedia's very best work"? –Hajor 1 July 2005 13:59 (UTC)
- You're right it's too late to affect whether it is granted FA status and the only way to do that is to participate at FAC. But the article's author would probably like to hear any advice for improvement as long as they are polite, detailed, and something can be done about them. Comment on the article's talk page of course. To the original question, the link to that can be found in the header on the top of the article's talk page. - Taxman Talk July 1, 2005 14:04 (UTC)
- Thanks for the reply. I left some comments on Talk:Vanilla Ninja y'day. –Hajor 2 July 2005 19:03 (UTC)
- Taxman is correct. I'll listen to any advice, but to be honest people are against its status there mainly because its such an 'obscure' topic. Hedley 1 July 2005 17:38 (UTC)
- If you had wanted to actually accept advice, Hedley, you would've respected the amendable objections that were presented in the nomination or at least offered some sort of compromise. You did neither and now you're accusing everyone of being against the article because of it's obscurity. That's very disappointing.
- Peter Isotalo July 2, 2005 15:29 (UTC)
- I did take on the objections. I added a small amount of commentary on their music, as brought up, and more recently have fixed complains on it being unclear on the language they perform in. Everyone who supported the FAC, and Raul who promoted it, seen the two objections as not needing to be fixed. In future, if the group have further music videos made, I will branch out into a sub-article if need be. Hedley 3 July 2005 00:20 (UTC)
- You're right it's too late to affect whether it is granted FA status and the only way to do that is to participate at FAC. But the article's author would probably like to hear any advice for improvement as long as they are polite, detailed, and something can be done about them. Comment on the article's talk page of course. To the original question, the link to that can be found in the header on the top of the article's talk page. - Taxman Talk July 1, 2005 14:04 (UTC)
Gauss
Can I confirm User:cognition's objection to the GaussFAC will be ignored like User:Slimvirgin said? Thanks Borisblue 2 July 2005 15:09 (UTC)
- Slimvirgin is stalking me on pages that have nothing to do with LaRouche, like the Gauss article, because of my political views. This is pure McCarthyism. Cognition 2 July 2005 18:55 (UTC)
- Cognition mentions specific things that he wants the article to discuss - are these things LaRouchian (is that even a word) in origin? (A citation would be appreciated) If so, then yes, by the terms of the arbitration committee rulings we can (and are oblidged to) ignore this objection. →Raul654 July 2, 2005 18:59 (UTC)
- You could just say that anyone's objection is "LaRouchian in origin" and the ignore it. You have no evidence that my objection has anything to do with LaRouche, because it doesn't. Just because I happen to admire LaRouche does not mean that I, like any ohter user, cannot edit other topics. Cognition 2 July 2005 19:03 (UTC)
- If you can produce reputable sources who are not directly or indirectly connected to the LaRouche movement, which describe the influences of Kepler, Leibniz, and da Vinci on Gauss; and Gauss's influence on Riemann, specifically the latter's 1852 "habilitation dissertation" (whatever that is), people will be happy to entertain your objection, and indeed, I'm sure the authors would be pleased to include the material, so long as it was relevant and properly cited. But the onus is on you to show that you're making a relevant objection that's actionable within our policies and the arbcom rulings. SlimVirgin (talk) July 2, 2005 19:10 (UTC)
- No way. None of the other users are required to cite sources for their objections to be heard. I must not be treated any differently, regardless of your attempts to have me blacklisted. Cognition 2 July 2005 19:25 (UTC)
- Cognition - I'm in no mood to play these legalistic games. Other people think that your objections are to the Gauss article are LaRouchian in nature, and that's good enough for me. Either cite a (non-LaRouchian) source that makes these connections or I'm saying the objection is moot. →Raul654 July 2, 2005 19:42 (UTC)
- The main author was taking me seriously until Slimvirgin showed up and said that I am to be ignored and blacklisted. No one has any evidence that my objections are "LaRouchian in nature" other than the fact that I have made them. Sorry, the onus is on them to provide the evidence. I am entitled to be treated like any other user. Cognition 2 July 2005 19:54 (UTC)
- Cognition - I'm in no mood to play these legalistic games. Other people think that your objections are to the Gauss article are LaRouchian in nature, and that's good enough for me. Either cite a (non-LaRouchian) source that makes these connections or I'm saying the objection is moot. →Raul654 July 2, 2005 19:42 (UTC)
- No way. None of the other users are required to cite sources for their objections to be heard. I must not be treated any differently, regardless of your attempts to have me blacklisted. Cognition 2 July 2005 19:25 (UTC)
- If you can produce reputable sources who are not directly or indirectly connected to the LaRouche movement, which describe the influences of Kepler, Leibniz, and da Vinci on Gauss; and Gauss's influence on Riemann, specifically the latter's 1852 "habilitation dissertation" (whatever that is), people will be happy to entertain your objection, and indeed, I'm sure the authors would be pleased to include the material, so long as it was relevant and properly cited. But the onus is on you to show that you're making a relevant objection that's actionable within our policies and the arbcom rulings. SlimVirgin (talk) July 2, 2005 19:10 (UTC)
You're being treated exactly like any other user. Your objection sounds fishy to a number of editors, so you're being asked to substantiate it. Do that, or go find something else more productive to do. - Taxman Talk July 2, 2005 21:17 (UTC)
- Yeah, my objection sounds fishy to editors who probably haven't even heard of Gauss. Cognition 2 July 2005 21:50 (UTC)
- Try getting some evidence. If there is evidence, it can be included. If there isn't evidence, it cannot. As simple as that. smoddy 2 July 2005 21:52 (UTC)
- I was the one that challenged you, I've heard of Gauss plenty. And experienced wikipedians can smell the fishiness factors of this new account without doing any math: aggressive editing, rebarbative edit summaries, remarkable familiarity with wiki practices and jargon. Bishonen | talk 2 July 2005 22:52 (UTC)
- Try getting some evidence. If there is evidence, it can be included. If there isn't evidence, it cannot. As simple as that. smoddy 2 July 2005 21:52 (UTC)
- So you're saying that those thinkers whom I had mentioned had no influence on Gauss? Cognition 2 July 2005 22:59 (UTC)
- If you think they did, please provide sources. Otherwise you look like a POV-pushing troll. smoddy 2 July 2005 23:03 (UTC)
- All scientists influence each other; I'm saying that Kepler and Da Vinci didn't have influence notable enough to merit mention in an encyclopedia article. Most biographies of Gauss (the references I used for example) don't even mention their names. Borisblue 3 July 2005 14:37 (UTC)
- If you think they did, please provide sources. Otherwise you look like a POV-pushing troll. smoddy 2 July 2005 23:03 (UTC)
If you people are too lazy to do your own homework, I will do it for you. [4] Cognition 2 July 2005 23:15 (UTC)
- Umm, that's a dead link. The thing is, Raul, I did entertain his request, as I stated in the FAC page, Gauss+ Riemann's habilitation dissertation gets only a few hits, all from Larouche sources and all making only cursory mention of gauss. A googled discussion of Kepler and Da Vinci's influence on Gauss also lists very few sources, and even if I were to include LaRouche sources the information I would add would be very sparse. I've gone through my biographies again as well as googling, and I am certain I will not be able to add the information Cognition asks for without breaking the original research guideline. If cognition will provide a source I will do my best to comply to his request at the best of my ability.Borisblue 3 July 2005 14:28 (UTC)
- I think Bish and Borisblue have made a strong point. I consider the objection moot. →Raul654 July 4, 2005 00:57 (UTC)
- Don't mean to rush, but I've handled the last few (minor) problems 10 days ago, and the voting currently stands at 7-0. How long before it gets featured? Borisblue 15:43, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
- I think Bish and Borisblue have made a strong point. I consider the objection moot. →Raul654 July 4, 2005 00:57 (UTC)
The delay is because I am/was waiting for user:Tannin. I left a message on his talk page several days ago asking him to revisit the nom and reevaluate it - he has not responded, so I'll be mindful of that next time I do the promotions/removals here. →Raul654 18:09, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
- Well, Tannin did visit the article's talk page, and made a few changes himself, which fixed a few more details he found ambigous. Borisblue 03:23, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Image Copyright
A user, well meaning Carnildo, is visiting the various FAC's to object to using fair use images. I know he has the right to object to picture copyright, due to FAC requirement number six: "Have images where appropriate, with good captions and acceptable copyright status. However, an article does not have to have a picture to be featured." However, what considers an "acceptable copyright?" Zscout370 (Sound Off) 18:22, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Copyright FAQ#Licenses for a basic description. Long story short: CC, CC-by, CC-by-SA, GFDL, GPL, BSD (and alike), and public ___domain are all OK →Raul654 18:25, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
- Basically, I'll object to any image tag on Wikipedia:Image copyright tags that isn't in the "public ___domain" or "free license" sections. I'll accept "fair use" under very limited circumstances: in general, if the image is essential to the article and there's no other way to get an appropriate image. --Carnildo 20:49, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
- I wish to explain to you why I am using the Fair use images for the Sybian article. I posted a link to Google, showing many smiliar photos. Though they are on different websites, with different copyrights, there is no way we can trace the copyright. Second, a machine will cost over 1400 USD to buy, and no places rent it due to fear of STD's. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 20:52, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
- If we can't use an image under a free-use license, then we probably shouldn't be using it at all. Difficulty in obtaining a free-use image is not grounds for violating copyright. --Carnildo 22:26, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
- It is the article which is under consideration for featured status, and not the images. It does seem to me unreasonable to reject an otherwise-qualified featured article because the images are fair use. Wikipedia can, and has, used fair use images for main page articles. David | Talk 13:18, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
- Wikipedia can, and has, used fair-use images for main page articles. Should it? I don't think so. --Carnildo 03:50, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
- It is the article which is under consideration for featured status, and not the images. It does seem to me unreasonable to reject an otherwise-qualified featured article because the images are fair use. Wikipedia can, and has, used fair use images for main page articles. David | Talk 13:18, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
- If we can't use an image under a free-use license, then we probably shouldn't be using it at all. Difficulty in obtaining a free-use image is not grounds for violating copyright. --Carnildo 22:26, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
- I wish to explain to you why I am using the Fair use images for the Sybian article. I posted a link to Google, showing many smiliar photos. Though they are on different websites, with different copyrights, there is no way we can trace the copyright. Second, a machine will cost over 1400 USD to buy, and no places rent it due to fear of STD's. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 20:52, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
In reply to both Dbiv and Carnildo re: fair use in featured articles -- this is a subject on which there is much disagreement, and strict rules are not a realistic option. We have to balance our desire to make the database as reusable as possible with our desire to make articles as informative as possible. Both of these are primary our objectives. As such, we have to consider each situation on a case-by-case basis. →Raul654 04:11, July 24, 2005 (UTC)
Please take a look --MarSch 10:42, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
Relationship between FAC and Peer Review
I'm noticing that FAC seems to get more traffic than PR requests. Does anyone else think that is a bit backward? I've seen a whole lot of FAC objections that should have been brought up when the article was up for peer review, so I wonder why there are people voting in FACs if they aren't also commenting in peer review requests. In my opinion, FAC should be a quick process- PRR is where the work should get done. --malathion talk 15:27, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
- You're very much correct. Because FAC is working towards something, people are quicker to find faults. Too many people ignore PR and come straight to FAC for more in-depth reviews. PR is open-ended with nothing to aim for in the end; FAC gets positive or negative comments and a reward at the end. At least that's how it's perceived by some. violet/riga (t) 17:35, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
- I've thought about this issue and have a few things to mention. From one side, as Violet/riga mentions, FAC is the last step before a substantive recognition is made via community consensus. If an article is an FA, we as a community are holding it up as one of our best; therefore we would expect a lot of community involvement and comment in the nominations process. Peer review, on the other hand, is a more general article improvement process, which is helpful but implies no community "stamp of approval" and therefore does not attract as much interest. I have often said that big issues should be dealt with on Peer Review, and FAC should indeed be there to catch the "nitty-gritty" and do a final touch-up before FA-ship, which is why I sometimes vote "review to peer review". Big changes simply shouldn't be made while on the FAC list; they often don't have time to really become a cohesive part of the article. On the other hand, the sheer volume of Peer Review can be intimidating. Right now there are 59 articles on PR, compared to 19 on FAC. While I would rather catch big changes needed while on PR, I have to pick and choose which PR articles can get my attention; on FAC, there is a sense of urgency and every article demands a thorough look. In the end, I guess I would say that while it is unfortunate that so many articles come to FAC with so much left to do (even after long stays on PR), it appears to be a necessary evil. - Bantman 17:47, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
- What they said. Editors are working more toward the "Holy Grail" than they are interested in improving an article for improvement's sake. With a specific goal in mind, they do what they can to speed up the process by skipping PR (I'm afraid that some of my own submissions fall into this category, but I've learned what's needed before an article should be nominated (I'm working on getting another article up to featured status, but it will be some time before I nominate it here with all the other editing that I've been doing)). In some cases, this is fine, but for those articles that need a lot of work, I'm also voting to refer them to PR for further improvement. slambo 18:04, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
- I've thought about this issue and have a few things to mention. From one side, as Violet/riga mentions, FAC is the last step before a substantive recognition is made via community consensus. If an article is an FA, we as a community are holding it up as one of our best; therefore we would expect a lot of community involvement and comment in the nominations process. Peer review, on the other hand, is a more general article improvement process, which is helpful but implies no community "stamp of approval" and therefore does not attract as much interest. I have often said that big issues should be dealt with on Peer Review, and FAC should indeed be there to catch the "nitty-gritty" and do a final touch-up before FA-ship, which is why I sometimes vote "review to peer review". Big changes simply shouldn't be made while on the FAC list; they often don't have time to really become a cohesive part of the article. On the other hand, the sheer volume of Peer Review can be intimidating. Right now there are 59 articles on PR, compared to 19 on FAC. While I would rather catch big changes needed while on PR, I have to pick and choose which PR articles can get my attention; on FAC, there is a sense of urgency and every article demands a thorough look. In the end, I guess I would say that while it is unfortunate that so many articles come to FAC with so much left to do (even after long stays on PR), it appears to be a necessary evil. - Bantman 17:47, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
Minimum number of votes to reach FA status
I have been involved in the Wikipedia:Featured article removal candidates page and I have noticed that many of the FA articles that come up for possible removal had very small discussions prior to reaching FA status. Is it possible to come to consensus on having a minimum number of supporting votes before an article is promoted to FA status? Perhaps having three or four votes in support as a minimum? Or is this an issue that used to come up with FA candidates but no longer does. --Alabamaboy 17:30, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
- The FAC gets more traffic now that it did in the past - nowadays, I tend to look for a certain minimum amount of support (in the neighborhood of 4 or 5 supports, assuming no outstanding objections). If something has no objections but doesn't quite reach this, I tend to let it 'stew' here a little longer.
- In the past, such a minimum was a significant obstacle - some articles simply did not get enough supports, even if no objections were found. As such, I was more reluctant to hold-back articles that had no objections but few supports. On the other hand, this is not so much of an issue now as it has been in the past. →Raul654 17:55, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
- (Doh! edit conflict) I would not be in favor of a minimum number of votes. Some articles that come through just don't interest the people who spend their time reviewing and voting for articles. As was mentioned last month, we don't have enough new FAs to fulfill the one-a-day on the main page without repeating old FAs. Requiring a specific number of votes seems to me an inducement toward sockpuppetry or to advertising the article in places where it might not be appropriate in order to garner more attention. Other articles don't get much discussion because those that were here at the time didn't have much to say about it (or those who would discuss it in detail either didn't have the time to thoroughly evaluate an article and trusted the community opinion). I get the impression that we're rejecting more candidates lately due to a lack of conformance with the FA standards than we're promoting, so in all, it seems like less of a problem to me. But, that's just my $0.02 worth. slambo 17:59, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
- No need to worry. (A) I do not support having a hard-and-fast minimum number of votes -- it's just I've come to believe that 1 support and 0 objections doesn't really qualify as consensus. On the other hand, hard-and-fast minimums just beg for sockpuppetry. (B) We are averaging exactly 1 FA per day (we produced 181 net new FAs in the first 181 days of 2005), so we will likely never run out. →Raul654 18:11, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
- Sounds good to me (and it sounds like this is no longer an issue). Thanks for the information. --Alabamaboy 00:37, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
- I'm new to FAC, but the sort of fluid guidelines did take me by surprise. I'm used to the guidelines over at WP:FPC, so you may want to take a look at those, which are much more rigid, for a starting point for revision/standardization.- Matthew Cieplak (talk) (edits) 20:14, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
- I very much prefer fluid guidelines - the FAC is generally a bit more complicated in terms of voting (you have to supply a reason for objecting, which is often resolved and leads to withdrawn votes). Fluid guidelines make this easier to deal with. →Raul654 20:34, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
- Also, bureaucracy for bureaucracy's sake is a VERY BAD THING. →Raul654 20:35, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
- I'm aware that instruction creep is a particular concern (FAC is mentioned on the page), and it's a bad thing. But there seems to be a lack of clarity as to what is meant by "consensus" and "long enough," except in editors' minds. It would be nice to have some guidelines or at least examples, rather than rules, that people could refer to. Then again, maybe not, as it forces editors/voters to justify their conclusions rather than pointing at a rule. But for the nominator's sake, it would be nice to be a bit more explicit. Maybe I'll spend a bit more time around here before trying to get into policy, though. I was just a bit taken aback by the sheer openness of the policy. - Matthew Cieplak (talk) (edits) 22:05, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
- As it stands now, I have no problem in maintaining the current system - I trust Raul's judgement. On the other hand, should he choose to pass this on to someone else, then I might favour more solid guidelines. Guettarda 05:14, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
- I'm aware that instruction creep is a particular concern (FAC is mentioned on the page), and it's a bad thing. But there seems to be a lack of clarity as to what is meant by "consensus" and "long enough," except in editors' minds. It would be nice to have some guidelines or at least examples, rather than rules, that people could refer to. Then again, maybe not, as it forces editors/voters to justify their conclusions rather than pointing at a rule. But for the nominator's sake, it would be nice to be a bit more explicit. Maybe I'll spend a bit more time around here before trying to get into policy, though. I was just a bit taken aback by the sheer openness of the policy. - Matthew Cieplak (talk) (edits) 22:05, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
This issue is a potential consideration in the Featured Article Removal candidate, Hutton Inquiry which received solely a nomination and an implicit endorsement 'very good article' when nominated in February 2004. David | Talk 13:53, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
- As I said, things worked differently back then. →Raul654 15:49, July 24, 2005 (UTC)
CVG nomination question
I'm working on getting a few RPG games up to FA status. I noticed that some of the articles have no Fancruft in them, but their subpages do. Someone mentioned to me that if the subpage contains Fancruft, then it hurts the articles chances of becoming a Featured Article. Is this true? Or when you guys vote on an article, do you only look at the article that is up for the nomination instead of its character pages? --ZeWrestler Talk 18:30, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
- It depends on the article. For example, when Battle of Hampton Roads came up on FAC, I would have objected if the related articles on USS Monitor and CSS Virginia were not sufficiently detailed. Other articles stand on their own. --Carnildo 19:13, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
- In general, related articles are looked at, but only in a cursory fashion. If there's tons of red links in an article, I think it's a valid to request that they be at-least stubbified. On the other hand, a featured article stands or falls on its own merits -- the linked articles don't have to be perfect (or even necessarily good, IMO) →Raul654 19:19, July 28, 2005 (UTC)
Where do they go?
If a featured article is not put on the main page, what happens to it? Is it just noted as a featured article or is it put on a secondary page? Rentastrawberry 04:59, July 31, 2005 (UTC)
- All featured articles can be found at Wikipedia:Featured articles (which is linked to rather prominently from the main page). Bolded ones are ones that have been on the main page. →Raul654 05:02, July 31, 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the info.Rentastrawberry 05:09, July 31, 2005 (UTC)
Chicago fan votes
I'm not surprised that there are many support votes for the Chicago article. Most of the votes come from wikiproject Chicago editors and have no idea as to how city articles have to be written. They rarely/never have taken part in FAC. While I do have legitimate concerns, I don't think my objection will be taken care of because of these "fan" votes. How would you deal with this situation? User:Nichalp/sg 18:48, July 31, 2005 (UTC)