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Template talk:Disambiguation/Archive 2

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Thivierr (talk | contribs) at 05:54, 22 August 2005 (→Add "what links here"). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Latest comment: 20 years ago by Thivierr in topic Add "what links here"

Template talk:Disambig/Archive1

Adding Category:Disambiguation to Template:disambig

Would adding [[Category:Disambiguation]] (or perhaps [[Category:Disambiguation pages]]) to Template:disambig be a good idea? I know that disambiguation articles would not instantly show up in Category:Disambiguation, but as they are edited, they would be slowly added to it, and this would be better than adding them all by hand even more slowly (and unreliably)... It would also eventually replace the need to maintain Wikipedia:Links to disambiguating pages which currently takes forever and a day to even load. (Hint: if you are an admin and agree, edit the protected page for me, thanks.) --ssd 05:10, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I don't see what non-maintenance practical reason this would have? Not against the idea, though, just curious. Dysprosia 09:33, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)
It just seems to me like a great way to get all the disambiguation pages in one place and eliminate a maintaince headache. Not everything listed on the disambiguation page is still a disambiguation, and I'm sure there are some not listed there. The only problem I see with it is that it'll give a fairly hard test of the category system when the number of articles starts going up. It'll probably be one of the first pages to need splitting. --ssd 06:25, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Are there any cases of a page that should be linked on Wikipedia:Links to disambiguating pages, but should not have a Template:disambig notice? I dont think there would be. If not, then it seems like a great idea. Just one less[sic] page that people need to take care of manually, and more time for people to update and create actual content! Chuq 10:14, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)
They could be placed into the category manually (I.e., have the category put on the page directly, and leave off the template.) if that's really a problem. If they shouldn't be in the category either, they could just be linked from the category description article. A better question would be if there are pages that should have the notice but not be in the category. --ssd 12:29, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Sounds good. -- User:Docu
I think it would be a good idea, although I wonder if Category:Disambiguation should have subcategories for each letter as eventually the main category could have thousands of entries. RedWolf 18:38, Jun 20, 2004 (UTC)
I also wonder similarly. Would a change in implementaiton of the category display to break it into multiple pages be better? --ssd 04:14, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Div tag

Is there a particular use in having the Div tag? In the Cologne Blue tag the footer is now glued to the last line (e.g. on ASA).

A way to correct this is to add extra space at the beginning. This does appear in other skins, but doesn't matter that much there. I'd rather remove the div tag though. -- User:Docu

The div is there to hold the id, which allows a user style for the message, including not displaying it because there is already the category indication. Compare Template_talk:Stub#Adding_a_div_to_allow_user_css_to_override_stub_display

The effect of div seems a pecularity (or bug?) of the Cologne Blue skin. May be that can be corrected with CSS?--Patrick 10:38, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I found another way to fix it: I changed div to font. People have to adjust there[sic] CSS if they were referring to div#disambig (not if they refer to just #disambig). --Patrick 10:52, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Looks much better now. Thank you for fixing it. -- User:Docu
You're welcome. By the way, I found yet another way: one newline after the div tag. That does not seem to give extra space in other skins. I am not sure what is better, font or div.--Patrick 12:11, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Div is certainly the "right" tag to use, but it's much of a muchness, unless the Wikipedia is going in for AAA WAI compliance. - OwenBlacker 02:03, Aug 8, 2004 (UTC)

Ugh. Div is not the right tag to use. Wiki-markup is the right thing to use. And what's with the horrendous use of

s? --Delirium 22:44, Oct 9, 2004 (UTC)

Unprotect

Please unprotect this template, or I'll be forced to use a new template to disambiguate. Templates should not be protected. Good changes to Template:Protected have been possible because that template is not protected. --Cantus 02:41, Aug 12, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks! --Cantus 00:18, Aug 16, 2004 (UTC)

As it's an often[-]used template, it may not be suitable to be updated once per hour. -- User:Docu

Why did you protect this again? Unprotect please, or I'll create a new disambig template. --Cantus 23:01, Aug 16, 2004 (UTC)


See Template_talk:Stub#Unprotect Sep 30, 2004. -- User:Docu

As this is being changed over and over on the same day, I re-protected the template. -- User:Docu

Template-in-a-box

Personally I like the trend towards using boxes around templates. Its cleaner than just italic text, and the reader will see that its not part of the article, and also be more likely to read the template. It also gives a clean, professional feel to Wikipedia in general. Thus I support User:Cantus's edits to change this template to this version, or something similar. I also don't see a need for argument each time this happens, and hope that people can start accepting that design has a place in Wikipedia. -siroχo 05:20, Aug 16, 2004 (UTC)

I second the motion. I was pleased to see the box appear this afternoon, and disappointed to see it disappear again. It visually sets the disambiguation notice off from the disambiguating text a bit, making the page a little easier to understand. Kevyn 07:17, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
On the principle of boxes, I'm somewhat ambivalent-I quite like the boxes-with-pictures scattered across the French wikipedia (List of templates, Stub, Spoilers, NPOV dispute, Copyvio etc[.]), but I also quite like that not all of our templates are quite so in-yer-face. Imho, some templates definitely need to be more noticeable (e[.]g[.] Template:Spoiler), but I'm not convinced that the disambig one does, unless we're gonna move to making all templates be boxed (which is surely a policy discussion that should be held elsewhere).
Whilst I agree wholeheartedly that design has a place in the Wikipedia, unless a full policy discussion is held (and one to which all Wikipedians can easily contribute), I vote to leave this template unboxed. - OwenBlacker 09:10, Aug 16, 2004 (UTC)
I don't think there is a need for a box at all, but there certainly is not need for the spotted border on it. It looks unprofessional, and the tiny italic writing on a gray background is very unreadable. Angela. 17:17, Aug 16, 2004 (UTC)
No need for a box, agreed. But I think that it gives a certain separation from the text that mere italics does not. It really shows that we "care" about our articles, and thus we box out text that is not actually part of them! It gives a professionally-designed uniformity to Wikipedia as well. Regarding the current box, I agree it needs work (God i can just see the arguments starting!). I don't see need for smaller text, and the border should be solid. Luckily i'll be gone for a few days and will be able to let you all fight this out (: —siroχo 17:45, Aug 16, 2004 (UTC)
I also think this needs a nice box and graphic, like a forking symbol. A crude rendition:
X---+--->
    |
    +--->
    |
    +--->
Like green with a little filled in box isntead of X. (I don't know why I imagine it as green.) :-)
Like this:

But with a not-ugly-drawn-in-2-minutes picture :-) - Omegatron 17:22, Jan 26, 2005 (UTC)

U-G-L-Y. The disambig text should not overwhelm, but just explain. -- Netoholic @ 17:39, 2005 Jan 26 (UTC)
:-) Well I think the double lines it has now are ugly. - Omegatron 17:40, Jan 26, 2005 (UTC)
Modify your .css to change its look. -- Netoholic @ 18:18, 2005 Jan 26 (UTC)
I don't care what it looks like to me. I want wikipedia to give a good impression to others. - Omegatron 18:27, Jan 26, 2005 (UTC)
I've read enough outside comments about Wikipedia to know that new users dislike the various colored boxes in our articles. To make yet-another-one for the simple disambig notice is not the right direction. -- Netoholic @ 18:52, 2005 Jan 26 (UTC)

Anotherone here  

Revertion madness & silly protection

I don't know what User:Blankfaze thinks he is doing, but his argument that because this message is usually placed at the bottom of pages it should not be inside a box, is all but ridiculous. Actually, this message should be placed at the top of the page, the same way other messages are placed at the top of the page. Also, some admin, please kindly unprotect this page. --Cantus 23:13, Aug 16, 2004 (UTC)

The page is protected because it is undergoing an unprofessional edit war. Whoever protected it was right in doing so. Please cease your edits until you have polled the community and recieved a consensus to implement this change. blankfaze | (беседа!) 23:17, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
"Be bold" is a Wikipedia policy. No need to poll the community on every single change. That's not the way Wikipedia works. Would you mind explaining to me what a "professional edit war" would be? --Cantus 23:21, Aug 16, 2004 (UTC)
This is different. A change on this page affects hundreds if not thousands of pages. Getting at least some form of rough consensus or even a bit of discussion is a good idea before embarking on a change with such ramifications. Johnleemk | Talk 11:13, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)
all "edit wars" are unprofessional, in my opinion: consensus can always be reached, if a good-faith effort is being made by all. A good solution can be found for any difficulty if all parties involved are working towards such solution. Correct me if I am wrong.Pedant 22:08, 2004 Oct 26 (UTC)

Proposal

A proposal to unify message boxes. See Template_talk:Protected for the proposal. --Cantus 02:42, Aug 18, 2004 (UTC)

invalid HTML

in HTML (and XHTML) a tag can only have one class= in it. MediaWiki removes all but the last one. They're supposed to be combined, class="boilerplate metadata". (I'd do it myself but it's protected) Goplat 21:02, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

A couple things

I actually came here to ask the second question, but after reviewing the discussion and the edit history of the template, I have to wonder-have people been making edits to a protected page and if so, is that appropriate? The real question I have concerns how this template displays-right now the text is jammed up immediately under the last line of an article's text. I find this extremely annoying and unprofessional looking. I'd like a line of space at the top of the template. It seems that sometimes it does display this way-and looking at the edit history, it seems some people may have been experimenting. As it is, I now manually add <br>  onto pages with the template, but that strikes me as a rather ineffective approach. Is there a reason why some additional space couldn't be added to the template? User:Bkonrad/sig2 20:07, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I agree about the extra space. I fixed this, by adding <br style="margin-top:15px"> at the top. Unfortunately, User:Sarge Baldy reverted my change, commenting "rv <br style="margin-top:15px">, italics separates it well enough and the extra space really bugs me" I think it looks much better with the extra space, myself. – Quadell (talk) (help)[[]] 20:53, Sep 29, 2004 (UTC)
Yes, please add the extra space back in (see my comment above Template_talk:Disambig#Div_tag as well). -- User:Docu

Please don't change this page without discussing

This template is used on hundreds, maybe thousands, of Wikipedia pages. Changes you make affect all these pages, so changes should be careful and based on consensus. Please only make changes to this page after discussing here. Thanks, – Quadell (talk) (help)[[]] 02:17, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)

That comment seems very un-wiki. While this text is used on many pages (about 10,000 if you look at the category), improvements can and should be made by anyone that's willing to contribute. What people should not do is revert reasonable edits such that another "war" goes on. That being said, I am going to remove the manual line break <br style="margin-top:15px"> since the paragraph tag already includes a margin. I am going to increase the verticle[sic] spacing there to 1em, which should be sufficient. -- Netoholic @ 03:22, 2004 Sep 30 (UTC)
Revert wars are bound to occur when users don't bother to test the waters before making changes that impact the whole of Wikipedia. Use some common sense. Similar problems happened with changes in the spoiler template. Aris Katsaris 21:17, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
The trouble is, Bkonrad could reasonably say he was boldly making an "improvement" when he took out the border. (You would, presumably, say he was "reverting a reasonable edit".) In the same way, someone could say you "reverted a reasonable edit" by taking out the <br>. It's all subjective.
The look of this box is obviously a contentious issue. That's why I think it's important to get some consensus here as to what the template should look like. – Quadell (talk) (help)[[]] 11:35, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)

I like how the new template says it's a navigational element,[sic] that's a good idea. The margin stuff? Well, that might be a bit too much, but let's try it for a while... The previous comment may be un-whatever, but it's nevertheless common sense,[sic] messing with a template like this one requires some responsibility and it's quite necessary to remind people of that. --Joy [shallot] 11:32, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Wait, what? You yourself made a change to the template without any discussion, adding a blank line at the top that personally annoys me. Personally I like the idea of a simple divider between the end of the article and the disambig message, as it's enough to separate the two things without being too much to annoy people. A spaced line between creates a block of white space I personally find really distasteful. Sarge Baldy 14:03, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)

Actually, I did discuss it, at Template_talk:Disambig#A_couple_things. Three of us agreed that the whitespace is a good idea. No one disagreed. I see now that you do disagree. Ok. I don't know what you mean by "a simple divider"-do you mean a <hr>? – Quadell (talk) (help)[[]] 14:19, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)
Where did you discuss it? That seems to be dated September 29th... I reverted the space on the 23rd and modified it into a divider earlier (on the 20th) and the idea wasn't presented in the talk page in either case. And yes, a simple <hr> remains my personal preference. Sarge Baldy 14:30, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)

If you were referred here by a link in an article

If you were referred here by a link in an article, you might want to go back and fix the link to point directly to the intended page.

Can we get rid of the over-pretentious language? From passive voice to needless explanation "a link in an article"-as opposed to a link in a what?,[sic] this particular change has acadamese[sic] preference for style over substance and length over brevity written all over it.

I suggest this: If a link referred you here, you might want to go back and fix it to point directly to the intended page.

Aris Katsaris 21:17, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I think I used "in an article" there, as opposed to just "link" because some visitors may be directed to that disambig page from an external link, or search engine. -- Netoholic @ 21:50, 2004 Oct 1 (UTC)
It is still superfluous, no need to phrase for all contingencies. How about
  • You may want to point the link that brought you here directly to the intended page.
--MarSch 11:46, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Top & bottom borders

 
No frame, with borders, like this version
 
No frame, with extra space, like this version
 
No frame, without extra space, like this version
 
A line instead, (without extra space above) like this version

I made an edit which added top and bottom double-line borders to the message box, as seen in this edit. I think they look very tasteful, but Bkonrad keeps removing them. I really think some defined separation is needed, since the text does tend to run into the rest of the page. Remembering that any user can modify their[sic] own style sheets to display this message however they[sic] want[sic], do other people think that this is a nice thing to have as a default? -- Netoholic @ 14:14, 2004 Sep 30 (UTC)

  • I personally like the double-line top-and-bottom-only border. It's tasteful. The 1em verticle[sic] space is nice too. – Quadell (talk) (help)[[]] 14:28, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)
  • This one has my support as well. Sarge Baldy 14:32, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)
  • I think a top border would be good enough. The template is used at the bottom of the pages, anyway. Lupo 15:11, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
  • Could you take a shot of the message with a single <hr> line for comparison as well? Sarge Baldy 15:33, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)
  • Nice screenshots. Three points -
    1. Disambigs are frequently used at the top and bottom of pages, so separators on both seems preferable. The "redundant" one tends to disappear from perception.
    2. I like the double line mostly because single lines (HRs) are already used as section separators. This message is a notation, not a section in and of itself.
    3. I dislike that the fact that User:Docu keeps protecting this template.
-- Netoholic @ 21:32, 2004 Sep 30 (UTC)
  • I much dislike the border,[sic] to me it seems like no more than extra clutter. - SimonP 22:09, Oct 3, 2004 (UTC)
    • Your opinion is noted, but please do not edit protected pages. – Quadell (talk) (help)[[]] 22:19, Oct 3, 2004 (UTC)
      • Why not? Many others have edited it. - SimonP 22:24, Oct 3, 2004 (UTC)
        • <sarcasm>Why not vandalize the Feminism page by writing "Femanism suxx!!!" on the top? Other people are doing it.</sarcasm> Others edited this page while it wasn't protected. To edit a semi-protected page, like this one, you should first discuss it on talk and make sure there's a consensus to make the change. (See our policy on the matter.) It looks like, as of now, the bulk of commenters want to keep the bars. – Quadell (talk) (help)[[]] 01:35, Oct 4, 2004 (UTC)
    • Sorry, I thought this page was always protected. It's listed as such at Wikipedia:Protected pages. - SimonP 21:53, Oct 4, 2004 (UTC)
  • I dislike the bars-I think it looks amateurish; however, it is an improvement over having no space and no bars. I prefer space with no bars, but at this point, so long as it doesn't go back to no space, I'm OK with it. User:Bkonrad/sig2 01:47, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • I strongly dislike the bars as well. I also dislike that someone edited this page to add them without first discussing their addition for a significant length of time, as they seem to have appeared quite recently with no notice anywhere I could find. --Delirium 12:35, Oct 10, 2004 (UTC)
  • Not a fan of the bars either. If there must be a border, it should be 1px all the way around, to remain conistent with everything else in Wikipedia. No bars is fine as well. —siroχo 23:22, Oct 10, 2004 (UTC)
  • I also hate the bars (even more than the HRs before them). They make the message stand out more than the page, which is a UI blunder. Was there ever a vote on this? There doesn't seem to be a clear consensus. Dori | Talk 02:41, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)


i.e./that is/&mdash;

I think we need to reach a concensus on what to use in the template between "This is a disambiguation page" and "a navigational aid which...". The template is rather constantly shifting between "i.e.", "that is", and "—"; one should be probably be settled on. For what it's worth, I prefer the look of the dashits[sic] cleanest (see the pictures above for two and the current template for the third). Whosyourjudas (talk) 04:29, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I prefer spaced ndash – because it separates the words. Don't like mdash—because proper use means the words have no spacing and run together. In either case "; that is," should go away. -- Netoholic @ 00:18, 2004 Oct 4 (UTC)
How about the grammatically-correct colon? HTH HAND --Phil | Talk 08:15, Oct 12, 2004 (UTC)
Netoholic is apparently confusing the emdash with the hyphen. An endash joins a range, or is sometimes used in cases of double hyphenation. An emdash (whether it's represented by &mdash;, --, or what have you) is proper here; the colon equally so. ADH (t&m) 00:29, Jan 7, 2005 (UTC)

I'd like to add a [[Special:Allpages/{{PAGENAME}}]] link to the template. This will offer assistance finding additional related pages. Here is a mockup:

This is a disambiguation page – a navigational aid which lists other pages that might otherwise share the same title (find more). If an article link referred you here, you might want to go back and fix it to point directly to the intended page.

The results are a little different (and only slightly less useful) if the page is a Page Title (disambiguation), but I think its still beneficial. Here is one example of how it would work if someone visited Aberdeen (disambiguation) and used the link Special:Allpages/Aberdeen (disambiguation). Fortunately, the disambig page is near the top of the alphabetical listings.

Since the template is still protected, and admin will have to add it, if people like it. Feel free to suggest alternate wording too, this is more about the added functionality. -- Netoholic @ 21:37, 2004 Oct 4 (UTC)

After reading these comments: A bot could first modify the pages and call {{disambig|TITLE}} where TITLE is PAGENAME or PAGENAME without (disambiguation). This will not harm. If this is done the template could be changed.
Example: {{disambig|Aberdeen}} generates

Minor formatting improvement

Very minor, but the Template would be improved with <BR> before the opening italics, to give the call of it some breathing room on the various pages. I notice someone else mentioned it earlier on this page, too. Can someone do this? — Bill 19:59, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Going to try again, Signori Administrators. Isn't this a reasonable request? — Bill 21:23, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
No. That would be a most un-elegant solution. -- Netoholic @ 22:23, 2004 Oct 21 (UTC)

Don't take Netoholic's brusque tone personally, Bill. He's that way to everyone. I think your request is a very reasonable one, and it would improve the page. Whenever anyone adds this, however, someone reverts it. (Often Netoholic.) Consensus on the point has not been reached. You're quite welcome to try to find consensus on the point, though. – Quadell (talk) (help)[[]] 23:38, Oct 21, 2004 (UTC)

If I may, and pardon me if I am wrong User:Netoholic, I believe that he means inelegant from the perspective of the coding, that </ br> is somewhat of a kludge, in that it html is intended to mark[ ]up text to describe its function rather than to style it, and that through the use of stylesheets/.css, anything </ br> can do, a stylesheet could do better, and that CSS would be the preferable way to approach the issue you have pointed out... which would be the "elegant way" to do it. <BR> would actually be incorrect by the way as every tag needs a closing tag,[sic[ "tags which appear as a single tag" need to have this format: </ tagname> rather than <tagname>. I'm pretty sure Netoholic wasn't attacking your sense of style. I think the difficulty of reaching consensus on this comes from a misunderstanding related to this issue.Pedant 00:19, 2004 Nov 3 (UTC)
What's with the stupid space in the tag? lysdexia 20:04, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
He's half-correct in referring to the fact that all XHTML tags must be closed, but the form for a self-closing tag is actually <tag/> (or <tag /> for compatibility). In any event, all forms are converted to the proper XHTML markup by the parser, so the Wikimarkup you use matters not. ADH (t&m) 00:59, Jan 7, 2005 (UTC)

I always think that this message should be a footer, but I keep finding articles where it is a header. Why do people do this?? 66.245.127.59 22:59, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Ideally, this message should appear on the page without scrolling down. If that can only be achieved by putting it at the top (because there are a lot of disambig links or descriptions), it makes sense. -- Netoholic @ 23:43, 2004 Oct 12 (UTC)
Well, you can also tell a page is so by looking at the "(disambiguation)" in its article title. 66.245.25.150 23:45, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
not necessarily-some disambig pages are located just at the article title, like America. so it's important that the notice be visible. Whosyourjudas (talk) 00:06, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Protection?

Why is this protected? So only admins can edit it? Please unprotect. Wikipedia is becoming a very disappointing place. --Cantus 19:58, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)

Many of the most-used templates are semi-permanently protected. This makes sure only edits that have the backing of consensus get made. Here's why:

When one page gets changed, then the server cache for that one page has to be refreshed. No big deal. But when a template which is included on ten thousand pages gets changed, the server has to refresh the cashe on all those pages, which is a serious performance hit. And when there's an edit war on a page like this (which there has been recently), it makes Wikipedia noticeably slower for everyone. So protection makes sure this page is updated infrequently.

So, what change were you thinking about making? – Quadell (talk) (help)[[]] 20:53, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)

I prefer the following wording. We edit articles and links, we do not fix them as they are neither permanent (fixed) or "broken":

This is a disambiguation page a navigational aid which lists other pages that might otherwise share the same title. If you arrived at this page by following a link, it would be considerate for you to go back and edit the link to point directly to the appropriate page.

or possibly, including User:Netoholic's find more link:

This is a disambiguation page a navigational aid which lists other pages that might otherwise share the same title. find more If you arrived at this page by following a link, it would be considerate for you to go back and edit the link to point directly to the appropriate page.

comments?Pedant 22:02, 2004 Oct 26 (UTC)

I suggest...

I suggest the following Wikipedia proposal:

  • All dis-ambiguation pages that are too large to reach the bottom, namely, the dis-ambiguation template, without scrolling down to reach it, should have the "Article (disambiguation)" title format. An "Article" title with no suffix is allowed to stay as a re-direct if there are 2 meanings naturally thought of, the one that is more natural than the other depending on the POV, such as Georgia, where there is the country and the US state. Any comments?? 66.32.244.149 21:24, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Rewording For Grammar & Clarity

The disambiguation notice currently says:

This is a disambiguation page — a navigational aid which lists other pages that might otherwise share the same title. If an article link referred you here, you might want to go back and fix it to point directly to the intended page.

I suggest:

This is a disambiguation page, a navigational aid listing other pages that could share the same title. If an article link referred you here then you could go back and fix it to point that link directly to the intended page.

— Constafrequent (talk page) 01:06, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I dislike this suggestion. The first version is grammatically correct; the second is not. (The first sentence becomes a run-on.)

— dbenbenn | talk 15:02, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

In fact, the first version is grammatically incorrect (or at least deprecated): it uses "which" where "that" would be appropriate. Constafrequent's rewrite does not contain a run-on. Addressing only the which vs. that error, it would read:

This is a disambiguation page - a navigational aid that lists other pages that might otherwise share the same title. If an article link referred you here, you might want to go back and fix it to point directly to the intended page.

That said, the problem I see with the current template is that it assumes it is the only content on the page. I propose:

This page provides disambiguation: one or more links to other pages whose title may be confused with this one. If you were referred here by a link on another page and you know of a page that addresses the topic of that link, you can to back and correct the link on the referring page.

— Dland 21:07, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Disambiguation and hub articles

Is Cannabis properly categorised as a disambiguation article? The suggestion that links leading to it need fixing seems quite inapproriate. Cannabis is now effectively and intentionally a link to a reading list. Laurel Bush 10:14, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC).

Get it right

In all the too-ing and fro-ing I have just read through on this page, someone has still managed to stuff up the message which has been currently agreed upon - can someone with the POWER please edit the template and remove the superfluous 'point'!!

By the way, I think the current message is quite ok - it is perfectly understandable and there is nothing wrong with the style. --Mikeh 13:27, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Be calm, my son. Peace. Now, what did you mean? Without the word "point", it would say "If an article link referred you here, you might want to go back and fix it to directly to the intended page." That wouldn't parse. – Quadell (talk) (sleuth) 15:26, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)
You have missed the 'point'! - there were two of them!!--Mikeh 13:30, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Nope. Possibly you were having a browser problem. dbenbenn | talk 14:00, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Image

Latest comment: 20 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

  Gangleri suggested (on my talk page) that once meta:Image server overload 2005-03 is fixed we could add Image:Disambig.png to this template (suitably sized, of course). Seems like a good idea to me. -- Jmabel | Talk 17:46, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)

I like it, too. But see above Template talk:Disambig#Template-in-a-box for disagreement. - Omegatron 17:55, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)
I also like it. It's already used in some other language versions.. Ausir 21:26, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I just wanted to propose the very same idea when I realized it was already proposed. Of course I support it. German Wikipedia also uses it, so it would be some kind of unification.

The discussion about which text to use started above has also not been finished yet. I would like the version "This is a disambiguation page - a navigational aid that lists other pages that might otherwise share the same title. If an article link referred you here, you might want to go back and fix it to point directly to the intended page." The image together with this text would be perfect.

--Eleassar777 16:50, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Also to note that the same discussion was recently raised on Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#Template:Disambig_and_Image:Disambig.png and seems generally supported, as it is here. As a concrete example I suggest changing the template to one of the following; -- Solipsist 21:45, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 
This is a disambiguation page — a navigational aid which lists other pages that might otherwise share the same title. If an article link referred you here, you might want to go back and fix it to point directly to the intended page.


 
Disambiguation icon
 This is a disambiguation page — a navigational aid which lists other pages that might otherwise share the same title. If an article link referred you here, you might want to go back and fix it to point directly to the intended page.
To repeat what I said at the [[above-linked discussion, I'd seen the disambig image used on other languages' Wikipedias and like it a lot. -- Tetraminoe 06:29, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
Me too. It's great and I'm sure it would be there, if the page wasn't protected. "Call the locksmith!" (quote from Robin Hood: Men in Tights) --Easyas12c 11:00, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
Well it is more that the last I heard, we were having some trouble with overloading of the image servers. As such, images in frequently used templates have been temporarily removed. Once that is resolved I doubt there will be much problem with adding an icon to the disambig template. -- Solipsist 14:00, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
The image was added and removed. I strongly support including the image on the page - makes the disambigs instantly recognizable. It looks like en: is the only wiki without the image! --Yurik 28 June 2005 14:51 (UTC)

"Other pages"?

Latest comment: 20 years ago2 comments1 person in discussion
This is a disambiguation page - a navigational aid which lists other pages that might otherwise share the same title.

Is it necessary to say "other pages"? Other than what? Isn't "lists pages that might otherwise share the same title" enough? DopefishJustin (・∀・) 23:10, Apr 17, 2005 (UTC)


It is indeed enough. --Eleassar777 07:04, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I concur. Fixed. Deco 00:05, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
Er, thought I fixed. When I tried to save it it didn't work. No matter how many times I tried. Crazy software. Will fix ASAP. Deco 00:44, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

Other templates

Normally it's fine if you put two templates on the same page. But try putting Template:Disambig and Template:Wiktionary, for example, on the same page, at the top! Brianjd | Why restrict HTML? | 06:54, 2005 Apr 23 (UTC)

{{disambig}} should go on the bottom of the page. -- User:Docu

Bad CSS

Latest comment: 20 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

On M$IE 5.5 in default skin (Monobook?), the template is (and makes all pages) a bit wider than the window, no matter what the size it is. Please somebody fix this. --Malyctenar 08:53, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

A proposal for a new disambiguation template

Latest comment: 20 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

So many disambiguations have been made; we should either make new templates that will divide the disambiguation category into sets of word starting with a range of or a specific letter so that the category can be more navigatable. Or we could put a variable into the category link. --SuperDude 21:57, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Recent change to this template

"Several terms named after the same word" doesn't make much sense. Nohat 02:34, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Agreed wholeheartedly. I can't really think of a good narrow substitute, though. It's a lot better to say that a term is the word than to say it's named after it, but that's horribly clumsy: "several terms that are the same word"? Maybe a term with several uses? 4pq1injbok 02:42, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

And "Ddisambiguation" (with two leading Ds) is not an English word but a typo. But i'm not in a rush to add editing protected pages to my skills, and in any case it may be tolerable until something else can be fixed at the same time.
--Jerzy·t 02:40, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I have removed "between several" from the sentence, because I felt they were unnecessary and were impeachable because:
  • between has been described in traditional grammars as only acceptable for two items (the -tween has the same root as two). Of course this is nonsense, but text that is seen frequently should be written in utterly unimpeachable language. The usualy alternative among feels strange here, and the verb distinguish subcategorizes for a plural direct object as easily as for a prepositional phrase.
  • several is not really accurate. There could be as few as two or three items to disambiguate (which is a smaller number than most definitions of several provide for), or as many as 100. I don't see that there's any need to quantify the number of items being disambiguated.
I have also changed the word terms to topics because terms don't have a name; they are the name. Topics, on the other hand, can have a name.
The remaining sentence reads This is a disambiguation page which serves to distinguish topics that share a common name. It is short, to the point, and grammatically and factually impeccable. I hope I haven't stepped on anyone's toes. Nohat 05:06, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Well, at least I've been trying to commit these changes. Changing a template that is included on many pages is apparently too tricky to handle right the first several tries. Nohat 05:09, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I have some concerns about this change. Firstly, the image is now going to appear on many pages, something that has been avoided (the stub template, for example) due to server load problems. Secondly, the template now draws the eye more than the main body of the page - something I don't think is a good idea. violet/riga (t) 09:47, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

New look

I love the new look of this template! The box makes it much clearer. However, there's one thing I don't like about it, and that is that there's more padding at the bottom of the box than at the top. I tried to make some changes in the Wikicode and got the extra padding removed. I don't know if the code is the best, but at least it works.

The current look:

This is a disambiguation page — a navigational aid which lists other pages that might otherwise share the same title. If an article link referred you here, you might want to go back and fix it to point directly to the intended page.

My proposal:

 
Disambiguation

This is a disambiguation page which serves to distinguish topics that share a common name.

Disambiguation pages are navigational aids which list other pages that might otherwise share the same title. If an article link referred to this page, you might want to go back and fix it to point directly to the intended page.

Anyone else that want to see this change? Teklund 09:14, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)


Why not just vertically center both cells, like this:

 
Disambiguation
 This is a disambiguation page which serves to distinguish topics that share a common name.

Disambiguation pages are navigational aids which list other pages that might otherwise share the same title. If an article link referred to this page, you might want to go back and fix it to point directly to the intended page.

It's a simpler solution, and avoids inserting the extra space between the two lines of text. --Poiuyt Man talk 11:42, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I don't really mind which of the three you use, but wouldn't the image look better if its background was the same colour as the background of the box. --bjwebb 15:53, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I disagree with the changes to the template's appearance. The fewer gray boxes per page, the better. User:Rdsmith4/Sig 16:12, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)
I definately prefered it as it was before. I honestly don't see what the image is supposed to symbolise, and I don't see what it adds to the Template. Also, why has this Template been edited so many times today, while it is protected? Doesn't protection mean that changes should be discussed? -- Ec5618 19:15, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)
While I'm not too happy about the new version I'm loathed to revert a protected template. I do agree, however, that it shouldn't have been changed in the first place. If there is more support for a reversion I will do it. violet/riga (t) 19:33, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
There has been a fair bit of prior discussion on the inclusion of the arrow image in the disambig template, both on the Village Pump and above at Template talk:Disambig#Image. Personally, I'm in favour of the arrow icon, but the current template is overly prominent. I've two subtler options suggested above. -- Solipsist 19:48, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I strongly dislike the image; and I doubt I'm alone. If any image is to be widely imposed, it should be variable, like the skin. Please don't. Septentrionalis 21:48, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I don't mind the image, as long as it doesn't break the servers, but I don't think much of putting the template inside a box. Boxes in articles indicate a problem in need of fixing and are given prominence because readers need to be warned of these problems before using a page. Disambig pages are pretty self-explanatory and the message does not need such highlighting. - SimonP 22:15, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)
For the log: I like the new suggestion and in particular the image / pictogram. -- mkrohn 20:41, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I also love that 3-way image and I think a real box looks way better than the fake box we have now.--MarSch 11:57, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

meta:Image server overload 2005-03

Isn't meta:Image server overload 2005-03 still a problem? In that case we shouldn't add yet an image to disambiguation pages. -- User:Docu

Not really, because this is the exact same template used on the German Wikipedia, and there have been no reported problems there. Páll 15:59, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The page is still live and it might just be the images in German Wikipedia need removal as well. If we have to choose between 500 illustrated articles and a 30,000 disambiguation pages with an image, I'd rather have the illustrated articles. -- User:Docu

Let's figure out what we're doing first

I think we need to get more of a consensus before deciding what changes we want to make. For a protected template used on many pages (possibly with an included image), frequent edits are undesirable. I'm not sure how I feel about the image, but clearly people are not ready to agree that the changed layout was an improvement. Please figure out something that people believe is a definite improvement first.

With respect to the editing of the text, I propose this version, which adopts some of the changes already made:

This is a disambiguation page which serves to distinguish topics that share a common name. This page exists to help navigate to your desired destination. If an article link brought you here, you might want to go back and fix it to point directly to the intended page.

That's a proposal as far as the text only, not how it should be presented in terms of the unresolved layout issues. --Michael Snow 21:17, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I like both the text, and the italics. We could use a line above or below the text, though it's perhaps not necessary. I don't think we need an image, German wiki be damned. -- Ec5618 22:08, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)

I don't understand this predilection for decorating templates like stubs and disambigs with little images. I think they all look silly. -- Anonymous, 00:00, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I don't agree. I quite liked the image and the layout! Much cleaner. - Ta bu shi da yu 02:50, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I don't understand what improvement this change seeks to make. Michael's suggestion says the same thing as the current version, just in a slightly more verbose way. I really like the current version (used since Nov 2004). -- Netoholic @ 13:15, 2005 Jun 11 (UTC)

I liked the image but not the colour. It was awful. I think we should reinstate the design but with a different colour. Celestianpower 15:39, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I personally liked the new look, I was dissapointed to see it wasn't there when I added the tag. I feel it makes the page look better, and helps catch the eye of the reader, which then explains the purpose and meaning of "disambiguation". Kind of thought that was the point of using the tag. <>Who?¿? 18:36, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Grammar fix needed

The wording This is a disambiguation page which... (which now seems to have been adopted, although when I view Template:disambig itself I see the old wording) is ungrammatical as punctuated. A "which" or "that" clause not set off by a comma should be restrictive (it would tell what type of disambig page "this" is). The actual wording is intended to be a non-restrictive clause, and therefore must have a comma before "which". -- Anonymous, 00:00, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

New image

Even though there has been objections to the new disambiguation tag; we could add the little picture from it to the current tag. --SuperDude 00:19, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I agree. The pictue serves to identify the template at a glance, without having to read. Just like pictures on stub templates help checking stubs for a stub template.--MarSch 12:01, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think that the image draws the eye to the disambig notice much more than we would want. This notice is not the most important part of the page and shouldn't demand attention. I've always liked the idea of having an image though, so my suggestion is that a light, greyscale version is made.

The second point to consider is whether this template is covered by the decision to remove images from massively common templates. Is this massively common? If so, we should hold back from using any image until we have the go ahead to use them on all such templates. violet/riga (t) 22:47, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Vote on version

Latest comment: 20 years ago5 comments5 people in discussion

Below is a list of versions of this template. Version 3 was modeled on Template:Current. Feel free to add alternatives if you think this is necessary. Please vote in the table below. --MarSch 28 June 2005 14:59 (UTC)

I've just started a brief framework idea about how to organise template standardisation for article templates. That would hopefully sort out (part of) this issue. I'm a little worried about the structure of this vote. violet/riga (t) 28 June 2005 17:37 (UTC)
1
This is a disambiguation page — a navigational aid which lists pages that might otherwise share the same title. If an article link referred you here, you might want to go back and fix it to point directly to the intended page.
2
 
Disambiguation
 This is a disambiguation page which serves to distinguish topics that share a common name.

Disambiguation pages are navigational aids which list pages that might otherwise share the same title.

3
  This is a disambiguation page, a navigational aid which lists pages that might otherwise share the same title. You may want to point the link that brought you here directly to the intended page.
4
This is a disambiguation page — a navigational aid which lists pages that might otherwise share the same title. If an article link referred you here, you might want to go back and fix it to point directly to the intended page.

Voting

Voting on versions
signature approved versions comments
MarSch 28 June 2005 14:59 (UTC) 3 > 2 I prefer 3, but I prefer a picture over none
SoM 28 June 2005 15:07 (UTC) 1 It's to go at the bottom of a page, not the top, and in that context 1 looks best.
DES 28 June 2005 15:25 (UTC) 4> 1 > 3 I see no value in the picture, which is not a standard symbol for anything. I think the wording of three is the best of the lot, and the ungrammatical wording of two is the worst. I Like the box on 2 & 3 -- My preference is really for 3 without the picture. So I added a case for that, now option 4.
Teklund 28 June 2005 16:17 (UTC) 3 > 4 The image will immediately let you see it's a disambig page, no need to read the text. Also the box in versions 3 and 4 makes it clear that the box isn't part of the content of the article.
— Dan | Talk 28 June 2005 17:40 (UTC) 1 > 2 > 3 >4 This poll is unnecessarily confusing.
SimonP June 28, 2005 17:58 (UTC) 1 > 2 > 3 >4 Strongly oppose anything that puts the message in a box
Netoholic @ June 28, 2005 18:01 (UTC) 1 Frivolous use if images as icons are an unnecessary burden on the server, and colored boxes offend my eyes. I find that the current (#1) version is just about the most perfect article-space template made. If you don't like it fix it in your personal CSS.
violet/riga (t) 28 June 2005 18:12 (UTC) 1 Don't like that image (may support a less obtrusive one) and the box is unnecessary.
<>Who?¿? 29 June 2005 00:36 (UTC) 1 > 2 I prefer the text layout of 2 with the wording of 1, change vote to remove graphic as possible resource hog.
Radiant_>|< June 29, 2005 07:50 (UTC) 3 > 2 > 1 This should really be decided at WP:TS rather than here.
IByte 29 June 2005 18:10 (UTC) 3 > 1 > 4 Image and layout of 3, wording of 1 (equal to 4). The box with the image identifies the page as disambiguation at a first glance.
Splash June 30, 2005 15:16 (UTC) 3 > 1 I like the image, but dislike the rest of 2. If having images removes 3 and 2, then I prefer 1 to 4. I share some of the concerns about the structure of this vote, however.
Jerzy·t 30 June 2005 21:22 (UTC) ---- The most important issue in this "vote" is that votes of this kind do not measure consensus in accordance of WP policy on voting, and that all policies decided on in this fashion justify undermining of efforts to enforce them.
—Mulad (talk) July 2, 2005 09:58 (UTC) 3 > 1 The border is nice on 3, and the picture seems pretty good to me, and is used in Wikipedias in other languages if I recall correctly. I don't like the weird small text and stuff in 2, so otherwise I'd just prefer to keep things the way they are.
—Grutness...wha? 10:02, 10 July 2005 (UTC) 2 > 3 > 1 > 4 Picture is better than no picture; no box is better than lines are better than box. Small text on 2 is a distinct bonus, as is italicising on 1 (if 3 had been italicised it would probably have topped my vote.
Ardonik.talk()* 16:15, July 14, 2005 (UTC) 3 > 2 > 4 > 1 The picture is aesthetically pleasing, and I'd be glad to see it added to the disambig template. If that doesn't work out, a colored box will do. There has been a recent trend towards making templates more vivid (c.f. the Wikipedia:Image copyright tags.) It's a trend I approve of.
Cool Cat My Talk 12:16, 15 July 2005 (UTC) 3 We need some color to take atention, frame seperates it from everything else. Disambig should primarily take attention. People normaly ignore regular wanings these days... Also a break after the period may look a lot better.

Mysidia 13:16, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

2, 3 I prefer version 3; There needs to be good spacing and a picture, otherwise this notice blends in.

Scriberius 16 July 2005

2 No. 2 looks ok, definetely with that symbol (a lot of other Wikipedias have it, too).

--Viperch 19:09, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

3 No. 3 looks good, definetely with that symbol (a lot of other Wikipedias have it, too).
Trilobite 19:30, 14 August 2005 (UTC) 2 > 3 > 1 > 4 Lots of the other Wikipedias have this, including the German one which I tend to find more professional and a good benchmark for us. I'd rather not have the coloured background, but an icon makes a disambig obvious to the reader at a glance.

Comments

This vote is really flawed (yes, even more than the weird use of tables). If it was even necessary, we should be voting separately on wording as opposed to formatting. It's otherwise too hard to tell what is being measured here. -- Netoholic @ June 28, 2005 18:06 (UTC)

  • I recently noticed the RV of the new design. Has anyone even looked at Tfd disambiguation? As there was a decision before this vote began, it seems. This vote started on 28JUN and the Tfd was finalized 23JUN, unless this vote is due to the Tfd. It was only recently changed because it was earlier protected. If so, please ignore. Thanks. <>Who?¿? 29 June 2005 00:29 (UTC)
    • This vote is due to the TFD. And remember that most stub templates have had their images removed because they're a strain on the server, and the disambig template is used on more pages than any stub bar bio-stub, I believe. And the stub templates are the most appropriate match for this, I believe, and they're not boxed... - SoM 29 June 2005 01:12 (UTC)
      • Thanks for the clarification on both points, as such I have changed my vote. <>Who?¿? 29 June 2005 04:55 (UTC)

Somehow this got deleted:

DES, you said you liked the wording of 3 but without the picture. Why then did you copy the wording of 1?--MarSch 28 June 2005 17:50 (UTC)

--MarSch 29 June 2005 17:05 (UTC)

SimonP, if you strongly oppose (colored) boxes, then you should vote (1 > 2) or something. Not (1>2>3>4), since that means that you can live with 3 and also 4. --MarSch 29 June 2005 17:14 (UTC)
Jerzy, why do you sya that? --MarSch 1 July 2005 13:31 (UTC)

Change and moving of voting

I agree with Radiant and Dan. This should really be on WP:TS and this current vote is too confusing, as there are too many options and modifications. I like ones layout but wording of another. I think, before the vote gets too large, it should be changed to accomodate several layouts and wording structures. Example:

Pic: Yes/No
Text Layout choices: 1/2/3/4
Format Layout choices: 1/2/3/4 (as in Heading/sub heading, or one long sentence; etc..)
Wording choices: 1/2/3/4
Color choices: 1/2/3/4

I know this may seem to make it more difficult than it is, but I think its getting more complicated as it precedes anyhow. <>Who?¿? 29 June 2005 09:45 (UTC)

I agree with a poll split along multiple dimensions as above. i don't have an opnion about which page it should be on. DES 29 June 2005 14:37 (UTC)

I don't see why this should be decided at WP:TS. Once it is decided there that templates should be standardized and what that standard is, we should try to standardize, but what one template looks like should be decided on its talk page. I don't mind if anyone wants to split this poll into several subpolls. --MarSch 30 June 2005 11:26 (UTC)
  • The point is that if there's an existing standard (e.g. coffee roll) then this template should look like that (e.g. have a brown box). We can debate the text and the icon here, if we want. But this debate is actually about the fact that some people prefer a purple box, or no box, to the coffee roll. And that's a standardisation issue. Radiant_>|< July 1, 2005 07:56 (UTC)
    • The coffee roll is onyl for talk templates not for article templates. There is no standard yet for article templates. Discussing that standard should take place at TS.--MarSch 1 July 2005 13:33 (UTC)

Edit function

I strongly disagree that Wikipedians are not able to edit a page if there's no "vandalism" such as this one. Changes of contents are key issues to a open source project. Isn't it a FREE encyclopedia? Scriberius 22:50, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

redesign proposal

Latest comment: 20 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

In spite of a new bordered template with null text, I was proposing a change for this disambiguation template. The last redesign was reverted due to less accurate text. This one should retain the same text therefore will have a higher chance of surviving.

This template will be easy to make hence the pre-made border with null text. Here is the design below: Template:Bordered Will anybody concur with this? --SuperDude 02:25, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Box overuse. There is nothing wrong with the template in its current state. -- Netoholic @ 00:57, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
I agree - we shouldn't use boxes for permanent, high-use templates. violet/riga (t) 09:06, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Where is it placed?

Latest comment: 20 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Some disambiguation pages have the template the top and some at the bottom. Which is the correct position? • Thorpe • 16:08, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

The bottom of the page is the most common by a considerable margin, but I'm not sure if there is an official policy. - SimonP 16:14, July 26, 2005 (UTC)

The old discussion, and my personal preference, is to place it preferably at the bottom of the page, but to ensure it is visible immediately when the page loads at most resolutions. For very long disambig page, it should up top, so that scrolling isn't necessary. -- Netoholic @ 17:27, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks then. I was about to reply to SimonP but you answered my question. • Thorpe • 17:29, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
Latest comment: 20 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I would like to see a link to "What links here", to encourage people to fix *all* of the articles that need to be disambiguated, not just the one that lead them there:

This is a disambiguation page — a navigational aid which lists pages that might otherwise share the same title. If an article link referred you here, you might want to go back and fix it to point directly to the intended page (along with other pages that link here).

--rob 05:50, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Unprotection request

I don't see any reason for this template to be protected. I am listing this template at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. --Ixfd64 06:51, 2005 August 12 (UTC)

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