Talk:Diego Maradona
Retiring Shirt
Didn't FIFA steped back at the decision of allowing the Argentina national team to retire the shirt number 10? Googling for ["camisa 10" argentina fifa] gives some insight.
- FIFA never agreed, Argentina public opinion was never entirely behind this wish... elpincha 21:53, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Discussion of "Cheating"
I've decided to move Maradona cheating in the first para to the later parts. It shouldn't be in the first para at least -- it makes one think he is a habitual cheat, and how such a "cheat" can be such a good player.
Yes he did use his hand, but it's as much the fault of the referee for missing it. I think it's unfair to call Maradona a cheat just because he hooked the ball in once with his hand (in a fraction of a second, one can call it a reaction). Anyway I'll put the general reactions to that goal in. Mandel 12:22, Aug 2, 2004 (UTC)
- First, Maradona himself recently (22 Aug 2005) admited in his TV show "La noche del 10" he used his hand on purpose, it was NOT a reaction, and second, blaming the referee for that goal is like blaming a murder on the police because they failed to catch the killer, i.e. it makes no sense at all. Maradona had a lot of talent, he was a wonderful player and certainly didn't need to cheat to win games, many of us watched him conjure extraordinary goals out of thin air (what a better proof than his 2nd goal on that very same match), but he DID cheat and that, I'm sorry to say, does make him a cheater, there's no point on denying it. --BlackBaron33 18:06, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
What absolute nonsense, how can it be the referee's fault that he used his hand? His cheating was much more than that single incident, his use of performance enhancing drugs was cheating for instance. Bob Palin 15:48, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- How can it be not the referee's fault when the referee missed such a blatant foul? Furthermore ephedrine is never as a performance-enhancing drug; it's a stimulant, like coffee. [1] That chap's trying to lose weight, that's all. (if you've seen him before the finals...)
- Yah, if Maradona is seen as a cheat by taking illegal drugs, then the footballers like Edgar Davids, Jaap Stam and Frank de Boer who tested positive for real ergogenic drugs should be branded cheats. For your info the glorious Zico, also took anabolic steroids to build up his constituents. Mandel 11:01, Aug 5, 2004 (UTC)
- If this had happened to any English player in any match i'm sure they would have done the very same thing as Maradona did, let alone in a final match of the WCUP, so please get over the "Hand of God". 138.40.28.22
- True, I'm sure many players would do it, like the thousands that fake faults and penalties, but that still doesn't make it right, does it?. --BlackBaron33 18:06, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
- The problem is that if we start applying the cheater label to every player that faked a fault, penalty or whatever then we're left with the fact that 95% of the players are cheaters. I say that if the referee convalidated the goal, then it's valid period. FIFA could've made them replay the match (as they did on Uzbekistan-Bahrain) and they didn't. If you wan't to find the guilty part, just blame the ref. --Sebastian Kessel Talk 20:01, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
Zico took those while they were perfectly legal in football, having no law to prohibit its use at the time. Dont try to pollute the carrer of Brazils 2nd best player ever.
When argumenting against using video to aid referees, FIFA has repeatedly stated that referees are "the 23rd player, whose errors are a part of the game". Therefore, when players fake a fault (and they do in every single game), they are just following an implicit rule: if you can fool the referee, then it's legal. Maradona did only that when he scored with his hand, as almost any player would do if given the chance to help their national teams win. So, my English friends, stop blaming Diego and learn to lose a game with some dignity... [agus] 03:17, 11 December 2005
All Time / All Times
Guys, cut it out with the back-and-forth changes.
What do we have this Talk Pages for? I think it's all times.
What does the rest think? --Marianocecowski 07:57, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- If you are writing in English it is "time" - there is only one instance of time (that we know of). If you were to use the word era it would be plural "best of his era" or "best of all eras". That is not a common construction however. Bob Palin 16:02, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- What do you mean with 'English'? You can't deny that 'all times' is used (search the net) though maybe wrong. What about 'Modern Times', 'The Times', 'Medieval Times', 'The Old Times'?
- Anyway, if it's 'more' correct to use 'all time', or it's the wiki-preferred british style, then 'all time' it is.
- -- Marianocecowski 07:55, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- "All times" means "every time". Unless you mean Maradona is the "best player every time", "all time" is it. No one says "an all-times great" -- that is not English. People say "an all-time favorite", "an all-time best". "All time" simply means the "best ever".
- Check the dictionary. Mandel 12:46, Dec 27, 2004 (UTC)
This argument is nonsense. Both "all time" and "all times" are correct. It's just a matter of taste. You can use "time" to refer to time in general or "times" to refer to periods of time, but, all in all, it makes no difference to the content of the sentence. Stop the pseudolinguistics trash talk.
Defenses in Pele's and Maradona's time
Video evidence of Pele's greatest plays shows that he usually had the time to "settle" the ball to suit his best available move (head, left foot, etc), whilst Maradona, on first receiving the ball, was immediately surrounded by defenders. Nobody will deny the relative athleticism and defending might of Italian calcio circa 1987 when compared to the Brazilian league in the 1960s, and this can be sustained by objective evidence (analyzing video, counting average goals per match, comparing tactics or measuring the amount the ball spends in the midfield, among others).
This is not meant to automatically create a case for Maradona being "greater" than Pele.elpincha 21:38, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Please, let's forgo the gushing praise. He was an excellent footballer, as agreed by many as the greatest ever.
- Surely this was started by an Argentinean, trying to prove Maradona to be greater than Pelé.
When will you people understand that you cant compare bananas and oranges? They are different (i.e. different times, different defenses, but also different attacks, and different laws of the game). Perhaps what bothers our 'hermanos' is that Pelé has had a more succeful carrer inside as well as outside the picth.
Maradona was the better player by far because he could do better things against better teams. Look at the 2nd goal he scored against england in 1986. That was brilliant. Pele could rely on his teammates to pass the ball with him far enough to get close to the goal. Maradona had hardly any, he created more goals by himself properly then pele. therefore he is the bettter.--Alexstorer 22:18, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
Maradona's nickname "El Pibe"
In many Spanish-language publications Maradona is known as "El Pibe". For God's sake, don't delete that part of the article just because you think it's just Carlos Valderrama's nickname. "Pibe" is a frequently used nickname which means "boy" or "kid". There are many soccer players who are nicknamed that way, not just Valderrama. See also RAE. Usual. Resultado de Listado de Usual (Real Academia Española dictionary entry on "pibe"). 2004-12-29T22:45Z June 29, 2005 06:37 (UTC)
- that was an edit from an IP address (most likely, not a regular user), no need to make a fuss in here imho. SpiceMan 29 June 2005 06:58 (UTC)
- The germane issue is whether Diego was called that. In my recollection - only a few times by the press in South America (outside Argentina) and Spain, and that is standard treatment for all Argentines, especially if they are short or have baby faces (see for example Javier Saviola, who has both). So I'd advise not having it here. elpincha 29 June 2005 09:14 (UTC)
- If called Pibe, it was usually El Pibe de Oro. Yet, I'm not sure it's so important to have it in the first line of the article. (new section Maradona's nicknames??).
- By the way, 2004-12-29T22:45Z, please make yourself an user (and use it!). --Mariano June 29, 2005 10:33 (UTC)
- If i'm not mistaken, Pibe'd oro was a nick name given in italian. By the way, Mariano, look at User talk:2004-12-29T22:45Z. It seems that's the username already (is confusing, I know). SpiceMan 29 June 2005 15:32 (UTC)
Agreement with FIFA?
Guys, I never heard about this agreement Diego had with FIFA to be allowed to play in the 94 WC despite being on "Weight Loss Drugs". Does anybody have a source? Otherwise, I'd rather remove that part or at least replace it with something less conspirational-sounding.
--Sebastian Kessel 16:19, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- It's supposed to be a unwritten gentlemen's agreement. The WC needed Diego's figure (let's not forget this is business), and Diego had a lot of extra kilos before the WC.
- I don't think you'll find any source, just Maradona saying me cortaron las piernas. -Mariano 06:10, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
- Thanks, I was waiting for somebody to answer. :) I think that we have no sources and it's a serious allegation... It does make sense, but without a credible source it's slander... :) --Sebastian Kessel 15:07, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
- Now that you say it, I don't know how it came to be so wide spread in the collective imaginary.
- But I feel it has to be stated somehow. I think it's OK as you left it. -Mariano 07:31, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
D10s
A brilliant creation IMO. If it is in actual use, it could be mentioned right below the Church of Maradona stuff. And btw, I think most of us have seen the video segments on the Church, but is there any other source on its existence? On the Internet? elpincha 16:00, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
Image
I just rv'd the other image because it doesn't show him as a player. Let's get a free player image... the other one was just too ugly. :)
summit?
Perhaps something can be mentioned about the Summit of the Americas and Diego's resistance to Bush? Maybe about his political views if there's enough info about it. [2]
Croatian background
Irrelevant methinks. The article becomes heavy and less readable when everybody adds his/her pet detail on Diego (eg the Bucaram interview). For the sake or readability, propose not to keep. elpincha 08:08, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
- Great great grand father. not notable. Mariano(t/c) 10:29, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
Rabona pass
- Rabona goal-pass MPG
- Rabona pass MPG
- Pic
- Pic
- ed2k://|file|Futbol%20-%20Maradona%20-%20Argentina%20Vs%20Suiza%20-%20Pase%20De%20Rabona.avi|8283036|D7248EC749DB0A352876749A224C7937|/ Futbol - Maradona - Argentina Vs Suiza - Pase De Rabona.avi
"Hole" position
Shouldn't the position be "deep-lying forward"? The informal "Hole" term can be explained within the article or in Football (soccer) positions, but the datasheet should be more technical, I think. ironcito 18:58, 6 January 2006 (UTC)