Talk:United States dollar
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Mills and thalers
There seems to be a prety big mistake ont he page regarding mills. There is no such animal, and never was. The US coin page makes no mention of them and the mill page says that while the mill was approved, it was never minted. This page says it was minted, and provides an explaination for why production was stopped.
The word "thaler" from which the word "dollar" evolved from actually comes from a woman by the name of Elizabeth Thaler. Her image adorned the obverse of the most commonly traded, pre-revolutionary silver coin in the colonies. The coins were called "thalers", and somewhere, somehow, like a lot of words in American English, "thaler" became "dollar", and we still refer to American currency as "dollars" to this day.
- Mills, while never produced by the federal government, were produced by local governments.
- Secondly, I have never heard that explanation, and quite frankly, strikes me as rather unlikely
First half
The first half is a bit confusing Ilyanep
Explanation of $
I removed the following explanation of th $:
- , which was originally a superimposed U and S
Because I believe it is wrong. I believe the $ is derived from the sign for Imperial Spain (which, as the article points out, was the source of the dollar). Can someone offer historical evidence for the US claim? Slrubenstein
- I believe it actually comes not from the sign for Imperial Spain, but rather from the Spanish abbreviation for "peso", which slowly overtime became the dollar symbol. -- SJK
We agree that the $ derives from Spain, and is not a superimposed U and S. But I am stil not sure about the history. I do not think $ is an abbreviation of Peso; my guess is the peso (just spanish for "weight") also had the Imperial Seal on it during the colonial period. I found this:
- Cuando en Estados Unidos se decidió que la moneda única sería el dólar coexistía todavía el Spanish Dollar acuñado con el escudo de España en una de sus caras. Como se ve en la imagen tiene en sus laterales las columnas de Hércules y unos lazos que las abrazan con la inscripción "PLUS ULTRA".
- Para indicar que se pagaba con esa moneda ponían detrás de la cantidad el signo $ que recuerda la torre y la cinta que le abraza. Desde entonces pasó a ser el símbolo universal del dólar.
on the web-site, http://usuarios.lycos.es/aurenauta/spanishdolar.htm which suggests that the two vertical lines represent the pillars of Hercules, and the S represented the sash, but I do not know how authoritative this source is! Slrubenstein
It isn't. As reported, the $ sign comes from a melded PS, meaning "peso". The first written example has only one slash, not two, which sort of puts a hole in the Pillars of Hercules idea. Anyway, the whole thing was clarified by Dr. Florian Cajori - I'll find you a cite, but it may be on the Straight Dope archive - I'll try to find it when I'm not behind a firewall :) User:Montrealais
- Here it is: [1]. - Montréalais
I checked the SD site; it sounds like the ps. argument is still conjecture, although I admit no less reasonable than the Spanish seal conjecture (also, Cajori was a notable mathematician but not an historian -- which doesn't mean he was wrong, but one would still have to check his research). In any event, we still all agree that it is NOT derived from an abbreviation for "United States," which is what the article originally claimed. Slrubenstein
According to the Bureau of Engraving and Printing (they make those dollars, after all):
- The origin of the "$" sign has been variously accounted for. Perhaps the most widely accepted explanation is that it is the result of the evolution of the Mexican or Spanish "P's" for pesos, or piastres, or pieces of eight. This theory, derived from a study of old manuscripts, explains that the "S," gradually came to be written over the "P," developing a close equivalent to the"$" mark. It was widely used before the adoption of the United States dollar in 1785.
US dollar
Isn't the most common usage "US dollar" rather than "United States dollar? If I were searching on Google (for example) I'd search on "US dollar". </stupid nitpick> Tannin
- US dollar redirects here. - Montréalais
Nickel
'Jordan Langelier: nickel is the term used by the mint. http://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint/index.cfm?action=coin_specifications
- Yes, and the mint occasionally uses the word "penny" as well, for example at [2]. Nonetheless, both "penny" and "nickel" are slang terms, not the name of US coins. "Nickel" doesn't mean "twentieth of a dollar", it refers to the metal that the coin is traditionally made of.
- I don't think it's slang anymore. Today, an educated man would say he picked up a 'nickle'; saying he picked up a 'five cent piece' would be unusual. Cent/penny; there is no argument, but nickle is no longer slang. IMHO, of course ;) Jordan Langelier
- The same could be said of the "penny", in that saying "one cent piece" would be unusual. But ponder this. Each coin contains, in writing, its own name. The twenty-five cent piece, for example, says "Quarter Dollar". What is written on the "nickel"? Also, consider that the mint is only allowed to issue coins which congress authorizes it to. Read the law authorizing the issuance of the "nickel" and see what the law calls it... The word "nickel" is mentioned over at United_States_Coin, which lists every denomination of coin currently or previously issued.
- Perhaps the fine distinction we should make is this. The word "nickel" doesn't mean "twentieth of a dollar", it means "five cent coin". -º¡º
- I don't think it's slang anymore. Today, an educated man would say he picked up a 'nickle'; saying he picked up a 'five cent piece' would be unusual. Cent/penny; there is no argument, but nickle is no longer slang. IMHO, of course ;) Jordan Langelier
Green
Is there any good reason that all the American bills are green? I mean why didn't they use different colours for every bill like in Canada, I mean, like in every other country in the world that I have ever been to (which includes most of Western Europe, pre-Euro). dave 06:02 May 14, 2003 (UTC)
- Yeah, tradition. What I remember from school is that U.S. currency is green is because it was extremely expensive to make green ink, then (during the Civil War). But, when I started looking around, there seems to be a lot speculation, but there apparently is no one reason known, but green ink fades much more slowly than other colors. Please don't compare the Almighty Greenback to Western European currency. Seriously, though; if you were comparing it to others from all over, that would be different, but don't group the U.S. in with Western Europe and don't buy that "common culture" crap. We, really, have very little in common with Europe.
- No doubt! I don't like this Monopoly money other countries have. Long live the greenback . . . heck, I'm upset that they've added a bit of color to the $20 bill.
- Personally, I think all the bills should be in completely different colors. It discourages counterfeiting (as the bills are in different colors, not just green) and it looks nice. The new $20 bill just looks like it's been dipped in dark green paint or something at either end. Oh, and towards the second person, he was talking about the pre-Euro currencies. I wouldn't exactly call it the "almighty greenback" now, seeing as the US dollar is falling against many major currencies. :P
Issuance
I was going to change "issuance" to "issue", but I wondered if the former is actually correct usage in American English? jimfbleak 15:20 May 14, 2003 (UTC)
- Yes issuance is a word. Even the World Bank website uses it. Rmhermen 15:27 May 14, 2003 (UTC)
Welfare increase
Did spending on welfare increase in the early 70s contributing to inflation ? User:Smith03
Government spending in general increased during the Johnson administration, and part of that was because of welfare programs, part of it was wartime expenditures. Also, the energy crisis of 1973 caused price shock inflation. So there were many inflationary factors at this time. 128.227.191.106 05:29, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Page to use for the $1 bill
The $2 through $100 bills all have their own pages. Until recently, I thought that the $1 bill should link here, but now I feel that a better page is Federal Reserve notes. Which do you think is a better page??
The $200 bill
Somebody who saw this page appears to think that there was a $200 bill with Theodore Roosevelt. What kind of person says this??
US $1 coin
No mention of this? - it was minted in 2000, and has an eagle on one side, and a Native American woman on the other side, with baby in papoose (I forget the name, someone who helped the Lewis & Clark expedition survive I think). - MPF 16:06, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- Ah yes, the "golden dollar." Bears a likeness of Sacagawea. -- knoodelhed 05:26, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)
New & old $20 notes
Reading the bit about the introduction of new coloured bills - for how long will the old ones remain valid? - MPF 16:06, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- American currency remains valid at face value forever. - knoodelhed 05:28, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- Thanks; got the impression the old style were being withdrawn because of the ease of conterfeiting them - MPF 11:45, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- The notes are technically valid indefinitely, but paper currency degrades a LOT with repeated handling. It is likely that the older styles of bill will become more and more rare as time passes. This doesn't, unfortunately, stop the problem of it being possible to create many Series 1990 $20 bills, screw them up a bit and pass them off with the excuse "I just found these" or similar. :( RDevz 22:25, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Thanks; got the impression the old style were being withdrawn because of the ease of conterfeiting them - MPF 11:45, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Chronology of denomination articles
In February 2004, the articles for the $5 to $100 bills were created at pages like this: Five dollar bill. A few seconds later, they were moved to articles like this to avoid being unfair to Canadians: American five dollar bill. Originally, they had links only to articles that I thought were of great importance. Then, a few days later, people went to American twenty dollar bill and thought that it should be moved to United States twenty dollar bill. Then, someone moved the pages to articles like U.S. twenty dollar banknote and put more links in them. By then, the articles for the bill pages have improved so much. Then, finally, they moved to pages like U.S. five dollar bill because "banknote" is a primarily European term. People appeared to be doing a good job editing the bill pages. The next major change in the bill articles was to add nicknames such as "sawbuck", and then to give links to bill galleries at http://www.currencygallery.org. The next change was to add the bill's pre-Federal Reserve histories. After that, a blue box was added that simply links all denominations of coins and currency.
Can you think of what the next change in the histories of the bill pages should be?? 66.32.158.89 14:24, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)
The denomination table
Until very recently, the denomination table was at the top. Now, however, it is at the bottom, where it is more difficult to find. Can anyone decide where the best place to put it is?? 66.32.70.244 01:16, 8 May 2004 (UTC)
- FWIW this comment was also left on 'needs attention'--I will remove it from there as this issue seems to have been addressed. Niteowlneils 01:13, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Nickel
The reverse of the U.S. nickel is Monticello, Jefforson's residence, not the Indian Peace Medal. The page wont allow me to edit this so I'm posting it hear in hopes that someone else will be able to correct the mistake.
- Actually, as of March 1, 2004, it is now the Indian Peace Medal. It will return to Monticello in January 2006. More information can be found at Nickel (U.S. coin)#Westward Journey Nickel Series. --Pascal666 02:19, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)
1970s’ inflation not necessarily caused by commodity price increases
It is doubtful inflation in the 70s was caused by commodities increasing prices, as this was a worldwide phenomenon but countries had wildly varying inflation rates.
The more likely cause was simply government spending and thus printing dollars, not only for the Vietnam war but mainly, and more enduringly, for welfare.
That's correct. The hyperinflation of the '70s was caused by the Federal Reserve literally printing money. The deficit was financed with this newly printed money, and hyperinflation ensued. --Dissipate 17:16, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)
While the United States endured high rates of inflation in the 1970's, it did not approach a state that could be described as hyperinflation. Christopher Parham 21:19, 2005 May 1 (UTC)
Crime added to the overview
Recently, someone just added something about crime to the overview. Is the crime of this kind still common as of 2004?? Well, here is a question that I want to see if any registered Wikipedians can answer:
Suppose there were a billion dollar bill. As I'm sure you know, U.S. currency is well-known internationally, and even though billion means 10^9 in the United States, it means 10^12 in many European countries. People would want to counterfeit A LOT, adding 3 extra 0's to the 1,000,000,000. Therefore, it would DEFINITELY need a new anti-counterfeiting feature of changing the footer at the bottom from "ONE BILLION DOLLARS" to something like "ONE GIGADOLLAR". How do you think people would respond??
(Please don't read too much into this. I'm not expecting there to be a time in the near future when a billion-dollar bill enters circulation; this is only an IF statement.) 66.245.10.239 13:35, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- Any counterfeits with "1,000,000,000,000" would stand out to anyone familiar with US currency. Besides, if we ever got to such ridiculously high numbers, it would be due to hyperinflation, and no one would be using such a bill outside the US. Besides, surely anyone who needs to handle US currency would take the time to familiarize themselves with the legal currency, to avoid counterfeits if nothing else, and would therefore be familiar with the fact that the US billion is his milliard Nik42 09:47, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Captialisation?
Shouldn't the D in "United States Dollar" be capitalised? anthony (see warning) 14:36, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- To quote from another response to this same question: This topic has been addressed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics/Style, you'rre welcome to continue it there. Markkawika 08:39, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
currencies pegged to USD, countries accepting USD
there is a mess in these lists on the page. Panama's currency is pegged to the USD, but they are not using USD as currency (according to the Panama Wikipedia page) "and a few more countries use USD" - who exactly? full list needed. East Caribbean Dollar is pegged to USD.
International usage
I would feel better if the analysis of the Dollar/Euro interactions and the ongoing fall of the USD with respect to the EUR was backed by some citations of prominent economists. In the present state, it looks like a lot of economic speculation, that may be true, but that is surely controversial enough to warrant some back-up. David.Monniaux 17:54, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Agreed. If an article is going to make me nervous, I want to see the facts to back it up. -FunnyMan 23:09, Dec 30, 2004 (UTC)
- As I was writing this, I stopped to read through the history and find the initial occurance of these theories. The majority of that section was contributed by a single anonymous user way back on Nov 24 ([3] / [4]). I'm reverting that entire section as a precaution, others are welcome to re-add any useful and fact-backed content that was in it. -FunnyMan 23:09, Dec 30, 2004 (UTC)
- Whoa there, that's a huge revert... The latter parts did sound like shaky conjecture, but the initial factoids are true. There appears to be ample reason to list and elaborate what happened so far, even if we completely omit all futurology. --Joy [shallot] 23:18, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- I've got no problem with what you put back, it looks fine to me. I was just doing a blind revert of the section and leaving it up to "the next guy"--you, in this case--to sort through the conjecture and find anything useful that was in there. You did exactly what still needed to be done, so more power to you. As it stands, though, the section could use a bit of reworking, it seems a bit fragmented, especially the line "The majority of US paper currency is actually held outside of the United States.". One line paragraphs should be avoided whenever possible. -FunnyMan 23:46, Dec 30, 2004 (UTC)
The term "buck"
The article states the following:
The word "buck" is commonly used by Americans to refer to a U.S. dollar. It originated with the colonial fur trade.
Is this an indisputable fact? I've heard various theories about the origin of the name. At any rate, given that a deer is not a fur-bearing animal (a buck, of course, is a male deer), I don't quite see the connection with the fur trade. A little more in the way of explanation would be nice.
circulation....
According to the Review Text in American History by Irving Gordon (1995), the amount of money in circulation in 1892 was about $20 per person. The U.S. Populist Party wanted to change the ratio to $50 per person. The text gives no references nor equations. How was this calculated?
My second question is this...what is the ratio today? According to this United States dollar article, there is nearly US$700 billion in circulation, with an estimated half to two-thirds of it still being held overseas.
$700,000,000,000/3=233333333333.33 in circulation in the U.S. $233333333333.33/295,786,000 people=$788.85/per person.
is that accurate?
please help. Kingturtle 01:40, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- Yes that does sound accurate. But remember that it is the amount of printed currency per person not the amount of money in the bank per person in the U.S. So I am not sure why this statistic would be important or useful for anything. --Clawed 09:09, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
Dimes
The page mentions Eagles, Dollars and Cents as the currency of the US. However, I believe the Dime is also one. This is supported by the fact that the dime coin says "One Dime" and not "Ten Cents". Can anyone confirm this? Mkehrt
- It is. Furthermore, Eagle was never an official currency unit. The US Coinage Act established Dollars as the units, Dismes (sic) equal to 1/10, Cents equal to 1/100 and Mils equal to 1/1000. Eagle was used for the name of gold coins Eagle, Half-Eagle, and Quarter-Eagle, but was never authorized as a unit of currency. It had formerly explained the use of dimes, but that was changed at some point Nik42 09:49, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
US Mint's New Custom
Shouldn't we mention the US Mint's new custom of revising the 20 dollar bill's design every ten years? --crumb 01:31, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
- First off, the Mint has nothing to do with banknotes, secondly, it's not just the 20 that's been revised. Everything from 5-100 was revised in the 90's, and the 20 and 50 were changed most recently, with the 10 being revised next year. Thirdly, there's nothing unusual in a government altering its paper money every so often. Nik42 09:52, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Franklin Half Dollar
The Franklin Half Dollar was removed from the table because it was "no longer in circulation". It was restored to the table because "it is still legal tender".
My understanding is that all U.S. coins, except the gold ones removed from circulation, are still legal tender. If "legal tender" is the criteria, then almost all U.S. coins ever issued should be listed on the chart.
The chart says it is meant for "Contemporary Designs". This raises the question of how recent a design must be to be "Contemporary". On this question, I can only speak anecdotally. The Franklin half dollar ceased production in 1963. My wife has been a bank teller since 1989 and has never seen Franklin half dollar.
The next most recent coin that ceased production appears to be the Eisnenhower dollar. It was in production until 1978. It is still relatively common. My wife sees these at her bank about once a month.
The Eisenhower dollar seems recent and common enough to keep in the chart. However, the Franklin seems to be a rare coin, likely to be seen only by collectors. Based on that, and its position as the coin with the oldest circulation date on the chart, it seems reasonable to remove it from a chart of "Contemporary Designs". --Seitz 06:54, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
The Franklin half dollar, along with any other U.S. coin that contains silver (pre-1965), is no longer in circulation. If one looks at the history of this article, the Franklin half dollar was mistakenly put in as an entry that would belong to a table of all U.S. coins. --Kurthalomieu J. McCool 07:12, September 6, 2005 (UTC)
- A few silver coins are in circulation. I've run across a few silver dimes and 1 silver quarter since I started paying attention to that about a few months ago Nik42 21:35, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
- But, by the same logic, Indian Head cents are still in circulation too. I've found 2 in my lifetime, but this doesn't necessarily mean that are "in circulation". Circulation is being used here as a relative term meaning, more or less, "active circulation" and not fluke instances of a coin surfacing. --Kurthalomieu J. McCool 22:53, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
New security features?
I was wondering, are there going to be any new security features on bills besides the EURion constellation? Like, for example, a holographic patch or strip, or a broken number as featured on the Canadian and European notes?
$ Or US$ In Wikipedia?
How do I refer to US Dollars in Wikipedia articles? Is it "$" or "US$"? E. g. "the ticket costs $10" or "the ticket costs US$10"? I. e. does the dollar symbol always refer to the US currency if not alternatively affixed (C$, A$, etc.)? --Maikel 13:46, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
- I would assume it would depend on context. If the context is clear what nation you're talking about, I see no reason to put a disambiguating abbreviation, whether US or other Nik42 08:37, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
- The Good Style at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (currency)#Currency says it should be "US$", but it's still marked "proposed," and I agree that there is no ambiguity here. —RandallJones 18:48, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
- Thanks for the link and info! --Maikel 14:04, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
Dollar coin nicknames
I've never heard "Gold dollar" or "Sackey" for the Sacagawea dollar, or "Suzy B" for the Susan B Anthony dollar, but I have heard "Silver Dollar" for both of those, despite the illogic, especially with the Sacagawea one. Nik42 08:39, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
- When speaking with tellers, they would laugh in your face if you called either of the small dollars "silver". The "Silver Dollar" is the nickname of the Large Size only. Everyone I have ever encountered knows what a "Suzy B." is. They do get confused when you talk about the "Gold Dollar" but understand when you say "Golden Dollar". "Sacky" is very common among the actual users and proponents of the coins. TEG 14:44, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Vending machines?
As most vending machines are incapable of making change in banknotes, they are frequently designed to give change in dollar coins and occasionally half-dollar coins.
I've never seen a vending maching give change in half-dollars, and have only heard of the Post Office's stamp dispensers giving change in dollar coins. I'm revising that Nik42 21:30, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
- Half dollar coins are rarely used for change from machines. However, many toll systems use them for change, especially on ferry systems like the Washington State Ferries. TEG 14:46, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Federal Reserve
Some cynics also point out that the Federal Reserve makes more profit from dollar bills than dollar coins because they wear out in a few years, whereas coins are more permanent.
I don't think this is true, as the Federal Reserve doesn't make money from replacing worn-out bills, only from printing new bills. Am I mistaken, or is that actually incorrect? Nik42 21:32, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
- I actually think you're correct. They would have to lose money, because they replace the worn out bill with a new one, removing no money from the overall supply. That is nothing but an expense. Markkawika 08:28, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
deprecated
"Large U.S. denominations (deprecated)" is probably bad wording. I had read a "fun fact" once that stated no bill in the history of the u.s. has ever been recalled or deprecated.
- I don't know what you or the article mean by deprecated, i had to look it up [5]. Which is not that same as "depreciate"(to lessen the value of). Which would be true, large bills, i believe $1000 and above are no longer produced, and when one is turned into a bank they send it into the fed. that would sound like a phase out, or deprecation to me. As for straight up recall, seems weird that none have occured, but I'll have to check it out. Joe I 02:00, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
"Dollar" vs. "dollar"
I believe this article should be "United States Dollar" rather than "... dollar", and all specific references to the USD should capitalize the word. This is an official monetary unit (and, therefore, a "title"). Essentially, the difference in reference is between "a dollar" (a value) and "The Dollar" (a title). RadioKirk 04:38, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
- This topic has been addressed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics/Style, your welcome to continue it there. :) Joe I 04:51, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
Three $1 coins
Why are three different one-dollar coins listed in the chart? The Golden Dollar is the only one minted and the only one considered current by the Mint. If we're going to list the SBA and the Eisenhower, why not the Franklin half-dollar and the Buffalo nickel, among others?
The Buffalo nickel has been gone from production since 1938; nearly 70 years ago. In constrast, the Susan B. Anthony dollar has only been gone since 2000 (it was last minted in 1999.) Georgia guy 14:52, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
- I find a length-of-time argument to be unconvincing. How long does it have to be out of production before it's no longer included? 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, 20 years? The Eisenhower dollar has been out of production for nearly 30 years. And one never encounters one in general circulation. At least the SBA's are still out there (when I ask my bank for a roll of dollars, I generally get a mixed roll that's about 1/2 Golden and 1/2 SBA).
- If we're including everything that's in general circulation, why are the Monticello-back nickel and the eagle-back quarter excluded? Those will even be produced again after the special series are done, unlike the SBAs, which are gone forever. The time argument doesn't work here, because the eagle-back was last produced in 1998, while the Monticello-back was last produced in 2003 and will be produced again this year. Jwolfe 21:38, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
Meaning
I think that something needs to be added to this page about the meaning and value of a dollar. What I mean is this: I know that a dollar, in old times, said that it could be exchanged with the US government for equal amounts of gold and/or silver. Then, they removed the statement. Now what is a dollar worth, in that sense? Does it have any actual material value? Is there anything that makes it value other than the fact that it is accepted by all institutions in the US?TrogdorPolitiks 21:09, 17 January 2006 (UTC)