Talk:Cassandra Cain
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Main image
It is likely that if an image from the current "Robin" arc were used as the main image here, it would prove unpopular with many users. Accurate though the image may be for her current situation, it's not a situation many of her fans are happy about, and it would likely be reverted (as it has been in the past). Cass is no longer Batgirl, however, so the main image of her in that costume is not appropriate either. I've scanned in the final image from her own series - after she has stopped being Batgirl, but not yet exactly what we're seeing in Robin. I can understand why people might not prefer it, but I think it's a fair compromise. I'm not deleting the old image either, to be on the safe side.D1Puck1T 19:01, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
- I think it's a good choice for now. The current storyline and interpretation of the character isn't necessarily representative in the long run.Bjones 16:40, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
- Hmm. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:GirlnamedCain.jpg or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:GirlnamedCain.png ? I can understand why people would want the text cropped off, but without the text it almost feels like that could be any girl a trenchcoat.D1Puck1T 22:01, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
You people shouldn't give into immature little whiners. Whether or not the change is permanent, it's current. Trying to keep it out of the article is no more than bias. ACS (Wikipedian) 02:08, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
- It's in the article. It's just not the main image.--DrBat 13:37, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
- The main image being used is also "current", i.e. Cassandra out of uniform - just an image of her out of uniform from a less controversial story. The "immature little whiners" by the way, are mainly her hard core fans, the folks you'd expect to be checking and working on the page the most. Not offering a compromise when one's available is just being stubborn.D1Puck1T 14:12, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
"Save Cass" blog
I've added a link to the blog Save Cass, which is starting a grassroots effort to convince DC Comics to change the villainous direction of Cassandra Cain. Would it be considered too "self-promoting" to be on the page? Either way, for now I'm going to be be bold and post it. --Kuronekoyama 18:44, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not a place for campaigns, rumors, gossip or fan gatherings. This is an encyclopedia. Please, keep that to message boards and other fan-related sites. Thank you.
--Colossus34 18:44, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- Should probably take care of that link to Hal's Emerald Advancement Team on Hal Jordan's page too, then. --Kuronekoyama 20:51, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- Slam! I am alright with keeping the savecass.com blog; I incorporated it and two other sites as references to the fact that this seems not to be a well-received character change. This is not my opnion; this is the opinion of many online fans. I'm just backing that statement up with citations. This is an important part of the character's publishing history and to remove it does the article and the reader a disservice. --Chris Griswold 21:07, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm not. From the Wikipedia guide to External links: Blogs, social networking sites (such as MySpace) and forums should generally not be linked to. Although there are exceptions, such as when the article is about, or closely related to, the website itself, or if the website is of particularly high standard. CovenantD 21:29, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to think I'm being fair and impartial, not letting my liking of Cassandra color my judgement. But I think the links are acceptable, provided they're being used as they currently are, as sources for the statement that there's a negative response.D1Puck1T 23:32, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
How do you reconcile that with the External links guide that I pasted in above? CovenantD 21:06, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
- I see your point. I do believe that savecass.com would be considered one of the "exceptions", as I do believe there is a close relation to this article and savecass.com (at least as much as Hal's Emerald Advancement Team is related to Hal's page). Wikipedia does allow for reporting on fan reactions, I would see this primarily as a case of citing sources. The other sources cited, however, should probably be replaced with the likes of [[1]], [[2]], [[3]], etc. Although honestly, it would probably be best to wait for more reactions to Robin 151 before adding anything anything of that nature. D1Puck1T 22:07, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
D1Puck regardless of whether your a fan or not, per the rules of Wikipedia that CovenantD graciously reposted, Wikipedia is not a place for fan campaigns, rumors, gossip etc and there are no exceptions. colossus34 22:07, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
- Okay so maybe there's one exception. Okay, two exceptions. Three exceptions. Okay so maybe there are five... eight... twelve exceptions, eight of which are on one page. Point being, SaveCass.com is not "closely related" to Cassandra Cain, right?
- ...right?
- Look, in the interests of full disclosure I am one of the posters on this blog. I thought I was very gracious and understanding in pointing out possible problems with the link posting in my original comment. Had somebody taken it off because it's self-promoting or a vanity link, I could have understood that. But there is no argument to be made why D1Puck1T's compromise violates any Wikipedia guidelines.
- And please don't pretend there are "no exceptions." If I had more than twenty minutes, I could find hundreds. --Kuronekoyama 18:52, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Get rid of the blog link, its one persons opinion, and there aren't supposed to be links to fansites.--Wakefencer
I have a compromise suggestion, we add a small paragraph describing the fan reaction, like we have on many, many other articles, then retain the link ONLY as a reference. Jack Cain 18:14, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
- Bad examples are not a reason to emulate. If you can find a Wikireason why these should be allowed, then let us know. Otherwise I'm just going to assume that all the exceptions are mistakes that have been allowed to remain. 19:03, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
- Start looking for articles about Cassandra Cain fan reactions, people. We know it's out there, and it should be a part of this article, but we need acceptable sources. --Chris Griswold 06:44, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't think he intended it to be rascist, though it certainly came out that way. I can see what he means though. The Big Two, DC and Marvel, do a very poor job in seriously creating and supporting minority Superheroes. Asian characters are usually relegated to comically stereotyped assassins/villians, or very minor superheroes, usually with a martial arts gimmick. For DC, the last big Asian Superheroines, Dr. Light and Katana quickly faded into obscurity. Marvel's Mantis had some potential, but she was quickly pushed to the wayside as well. I hope that this recent thing with Cassandra is quickly retconned or otherwise fixed. (Maybe it'll be an evil twin or clone!) Even if she stays an assassin or doesn't go back to being Batgirl, I just hope they keep the strong silent, kicking but characterization, rather than the recent "chatty cathy" characterization, that looks like she came out of a bad Jackie Chan movie.--Wakefencer 15:05, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Inconsistent
She and Tim then eventually engaged in a final battle where she maintained the upperhand.
- This account of the battle is inconsistent with the account published on Tim Drake. Someone familiar with the story (which I'm not) needs to fix one or both. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cribcage (talk • contribs)
Well, for starters, I wrote the original updated summaries for both. One can hold their own whilst another maintains the upperhand in a fight. Open your mind a bit. Cassandra did not dominate Tim, but from what I saw, he wasn't winning. That's not inconsist. It's a change in prospective. Each article shouldn't just be a rehash of the other. Also, sign your comments. Tends to make you look like less of a- Oh. I'm being told I can't say that. Ah well. ACS (Wikipedian) 19:05, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
- What Ace said is essentially the case. Tim was surviving against Cass (considerably longer than anyone since Shiva), but Cass still looked like the superior fighter.D1Puck1T 19:12, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks, Pucky. ACS (Wikipedian) 18:41, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
I was under the impression she was toying with him and could of beaten him at anytime. But she wanted to convince him to join her "cause", whatever that may be. Tangen
Spoilers for upcoming stories
Remember, information for upcoming stories (such as what teams she will be in) should not be put in the article, which reflects her "current" situation. If you have an interview, or similar, stating future events, it's okay to reference it, but not in the main article, and be sure to have a spoiler tag.D1Puck1T 04:50, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
- That could be worded differently. I believe what you mean is not to acknowledge data from interviewers and press conferences as status quo. However, her status as "Batgirl" is a "spoiler" as well? At no point did she reclaim her title in the comics. So, why, exactly, are we making an exception in this case? ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 18:36, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
- Good point. If you think it should be changed back from Batgirl, that would probably be fair. At the same time, however, I don't believe she ever officially gave up the name and title. Since the last panel of the last issue had her walking around without the costume and said she was no longer the following the path of Batman, a lot of people assumed she had given the name up. However she still got called Batgirl in the Robin OYL story, even if she was out of uniform. I could see either way being fair - if you feel it's a spoiler to be using the Batgirl title, I have no problem with it being reverted to Cassandra Cain until the Titans East story (or the upcoming Supergirl story, whichever is appropriate). And yes, what I meant is that it's too early to be putting her as being associated with Titans East, or in that category, and let's keep spoilers to clearly marked sections.D1Puck1T 19:38, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
- I was actually going the other way. The picture's the real spoiler. You make a good point about the name, but I guess it's like Ralph Dibny. I'll get on it. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 20:14, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
- Good point. If you think it should be changed back from Batgirl, that would probably be fair. At the same time, however, I don't believe she ever officially gave up the name and title. Since the last panel of the last issue had her walking around without the costume and said she was no longer the following the path of Batman, a lot of people assumed she had given the name up. However she still got called Batgirl in the Robin OYL story, even if she was out of uniform. I could see either way being fair - if you feel it's a spoiler to be using the Batgirl title, I have no problem with it being reverted to Cassandra Cain until the Titans East story (or the upcoming Supergirl story, whichever is appropriate). And yes, what I meant is that it's too early to be putting her as being associated with Titans East, or in that category, and let's keep spoilers to clearly marked sections.D1Puck1T 19:38, 4 September 2006 (UTC)