Major deletions
User:Thejackhmr recently deleted several entire paragraphs of material from this article on no apparent basis other than his apparent dislike of what it said. Thejackhmr: are you saying that any of these statements are not true? I considered them sufficiently self-evident not to need documentation, but if you are doubting them, I suppose I can search out citations. Or do you have some other reason for the deletions?
I really try to avoid edit wars, so am refraining from simply reverting your edits. I'd like your reply before I edit.
(I will ping Thejackhmr on his talk page to make sure he sees this.) -- Jmabel 04:22, Aug 9, 2004 (UTC)
- No, no... no edit war is going to happen. Your wording, and the concept of liberal as a pejorative term, struck me as subjective, but if there's any place to be liberal with the NPOV rules, this is it. Sorry, i won't bother you here. Bye, ~thejackhmr
- OK, given that I will revert. Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. -- Jmabel 04:40, Aug 9, 2004 (UTC)
Leaders
The recently added list of 20th-century U.S. liberal leaders strikes me as quirky. I certainly agree with:
- Hubert H. Humphrey - Nelson Rockefeller - John F. Kennedy - Robert Kennedy - Edward Kennedy - Allard K. Lowenstein - Eugene McCarthy - George McGovern - Franklin Delano Roosevelt - Paul Wellstone - Fiorello LaGuardia - Walter Mondale. And I guess I can't argue with the inclusion of Daniel Patrick Moynihan (despite some lapses on his part: "benign neglect" and all that), but if he's on the list, then how about other sometimes-lapsed liberals like Henry M. Jackson?
I would certainly add Adlai Stevenson, probably an even clearer inclusion than some on this list. I'd also consider adding Warren G. Magnusson (not even an article yet? Jeez), Ann Richards, Ralph Bunche, Thurgood Marshall, William Scranton (also lacking an article), and John V. Lindsay; that's just off the top of my head.
Is the inclusion of Theodore Roosevelt as a "liberal" an implicit way of making the case that the Progressive movement is part of the stream from 19th-century liberalism to modern American liberalism? If so, Robert M. La Follette, Sr. seems an even more appropriate inclusion in this respect.
William O. Douglas seems to me to be a bit left of "liberal". On the other hand, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and Harry S Truman all were pretty centrist in terms of their times and don't particularly strike me as liberals. All had some liberals in their cabinets (and Carter certainly had one as vice president), but I don't think they themselves were liberals, any more than Lyndon Johnson was.
Also, any reason to include only politicians, not (for example) influential writers like Lionel Trilling or John Rawls?
Anyway, these are just suggestions: feel free to act on them, or discuss, or ignore. -- Jmabel | Talk 01:09, Nov 18, 2004 (UTC)