Wikipedia

Mark Richards

Joined 6 February 2004
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Archive 1 Archive 2

WikiProject Sustainability

Hi Mark!

You asked what you could do in WikiProject Sustainability. If you'd like to be part of the project please add your name to the participants list. There's now a long list of open tasks too to give you an idea of what can be done. I'm hoping to make Wikipedia a really valuable resource for sustainability and ecology.

Thanks for your interest!

--Pengo 10:57, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Been off for a while

I have been taking some time off Wikipedia for a while, so in case there was anything that I said I would do that I didn't, I havn't! Mark Richards 17:29, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)

You've been missed, Mark. I hope to see you back often. :-) In your absence, I've become an arbitrator, so I need more than ever to hear your excellent voice of dissent and consider the perspectives that it raises. Best wishes, Jwrosenzweig 00:41, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

beta Systemic Bias section

Hi, if you wish to help contribute to a beta version of a Wikipedia page section designed to counter-act Wikipedia's systematic bias, please sign the bottom of this section on the Village pump - Wikipedia:Village_pump#Systemic_bias_in_Wikipedia. If not, no worries.--Xed 03:26, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

beta Systemic Bias section opened

See User:Xed/CROSSBOW. Please feel free to add to the discussion. --Xed 12:56, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Notability

Good evening, Mark. In a recent VfD discussion thread, you said that "notability" is not one of the deletion criteria. As we commonly use the term, actually it is.

Notability is often a proxy for verifiability. It is not enough that one person can theoretically verify the existence of something at the time of writing. For Wikipedia to retain credibility, we need a critical mass of informed editors who are willing to watch each particular article and protect it from subtle vandalism for years. Topics that are extremely non-notable generally can not meet that standard and can not be maintained.

The "notability" test is also a part of our defense against bias (which is the real reason that we delete Original Research, Vanity and Wikispam - it's just too much work to keep NPOV). A topic that is insufficiently notable is very difficult to defend against bias, especially if the subject of the article is a Wikipedia participant. By limiting the topics of discussion to "notable" topics, we are far more likely to have enough editors to ensure that the topic is addressed neutrally. The community consensus is that if only a few people are talking about topic X, the burden of proof is on the article's contributor to provide evidence that the article can be saved.

You might want to look at Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not and some of the related discussion pages. This is a topic that gets discussed a lot. Good luck. Rossami 21:54, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to imply that "notability" was explicitly discussed at Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. I just wasn't sure if you'd seen it yet or not. Your list of "reasons for deletion" sounded suspiciously like the synopsis at Wikipedia:Deletion policy. WWIN is generally considered to be the controlling page. If there is a discrepancy between WWIN and Deletion policy, WWIN wins. Apologies if I'm telling you something you already knew.
You also asked where, exactly, the definition of "notability" is written down. One of the problems with Wikipedia is that we are guided by community consensus rather than top-down dictates and authority. (It's also one of our greatest strengths but that's a different discussion.) The consensus emerges through discussions, debates and precedent all over the Wikipedia. Few of the consensuses (consensi?) are promptly updated to the various policy pages. (Assuming you can even find the appropriate policy page - another problem that we have been wrestling with lately.)
The consensus on the notability "rule" emerged across months of individual VfD discussion threads just like the one on the programming languages. The rationale for the rule has never been written that I know of. The standards for implementation have been drafted for a few specific cases but even they remain contentious.
  • For people, see Wikipedia:Criteria for inclusion of biographies
  • For schools, see User:Dpbsmith/BEEFSTEW
  • For towns, the consensus is "if it's in the Census, keep it". In one contentious precedent, we kept an 80-person housing unit. (By the way, I'd love to find that discussion thread again. In my opinion, that was the genesis of the "maintainability" argument.)
  • There's also a general rule that "if the content of each article is small, a single list is better than a mess of sub-stub articles".
You are correct that we need to balance the "notability test" against the "I'm not interested so delete" votes. All I can say is that after watching VfD for months, I have become convinced of the good faith of most participants. They (we?) show a great deference for facts and logical arguments and remain true to our greater purpose of writing an encyclopedia. The few people who abuse the system are pretty consistently shouted down. Many esoteric topics are kept. It just takes a couple of people whose comments show that they are both interested and expert enough to maintain the page. Hope that helps. Rossami 22:49, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for uploading Image:Chillies.jpg; it's very pretty. I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know whether it's released under the GFDL, whether fair use is claimed, or what? Thanks, – Quadell (talk) (help)[[]] 02:52, Oct 2, 2004 (UTC)


wikifun

i noticed your reply and wondered if you wanted to add any ideas or even to do a colaboration. also where would i be able to stick a link where people would see it?? --Larsie 21:54, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Coconut crab

Hi. A couple of months ago you left me some praise on my talk page for my article on the Coconut crab. Thanks! I just nominated the article on Wikipedia:Featured article candidates, so please let me know if you have any comments or suggestions about what I should add to the article. Thanks -- Chris 73 Talk 03:21, Oct 9, 2004 (UTC)

URGENT: Opposition to "Sam Spade": See User:Spleeman/Sam Spade

See a critic's tracking of SamSpade's activities on Wikipedia at User:Spleeman/Sam Spade Vote "NO", or reverse your vote, even at this late hour. This is criticle (and critical) information! IZAK 09:46, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)

See: User:Spleeman/Sam Spade#Political bias:

  • From Sam's own user page: User:Sam_Spade/Theoretical_Biases
  • Removes references to groups such as the KKK as "right-wing" [1]
  • Attempts to sugarcoat racist views [2]
  • The claim the Geli Raubal was Hitler's mistress is just that, a claim [3].
  • Wants Hitler labeled as a socialist on the communism page (see Talk:Communism)
  • Insists on including his personal theories regarding a relationship between nazism and Chinese communism in nazism article:
  • From Talk:Socialism:
    • "I intend to do what I always have, which is insist that the Nazi's were socialist because... they were." (Sam Spade 00:32, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC))
  • Called another editor a "fascist" (Talk:Socialism#protection). This is similar to his attempts to try to provoke me by implying that I was a nationalist, or not an anarchist:
  • More on belief in non-racial eugenics: Why Sam is Right Wing (a list by User:Stopthebus18)
    • Stopthebus18: "People (including our country) have done horrible things in the name of eugenics." (StoptheBus18 16:02, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC))
    • Sam Spade: "Seems to work in Singapore. Bad things have been done in the name of all sorts of medicine, but we don't stop going to the doctor, do we?" (Sam Spade 17:21, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC))
  • Guess what everybody!!! "The attempt to paint them [the Nazis] as "reactionaries" is a propagandistic fraud." (Sam Spade 16:11, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC), Talk:Nazism) Wow! You learn something new everyday.... Not.
  • Hmm. For some reason, Sam doesn't want anybody to know that white-supremacist Wolfgang Droege was involved in drug trafficking [4].

Blocking

I went on a blocking hiatus for about a week and I have seriously cut back. RickK 06:05, Oct 13, 2004 (UTC)

Top Banana

Is your name a refernce to the fantastic game Top Banana? Mark Richards 17:56, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

  • Hi Mark. Sadly I never experienced the wonders of the game you mention (I was an - gasp! - Atari ST user). I started using the name on a TiVo discussion forum, that being the phrase that came to mind when I finally grokked what they do. - TB 07:46, 2004 Oct 13 (UTC)

The Recycling Troll

Gee whiz, someone with a play on "troll" for a username who is going around being a deliberate pain in the ass, I can't imagine who that would be. - Hephaestos|§ 12:40, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Margin of error (disambiguation)

Since this page does not yet point to more than one article, nor even mention what the other topics are, it's not yet really a disambiguation page. Should some material be added before you link to? The comment at the top of the page at margin of error seems like false advertising until that happens. Michael Hardy 19:36, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Poll

I have created a preliminary version of Wikipedia:VfD decisions not backed by current policies/poll. Your comments would be much appreciated. - SimonP 17:10, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)

FYI

For Your Information-Vandalism is a legitimate reason for blocking. Eitherway since my point has been made and I did not make the intial blocks I won't revert on the block log. I would, however, think it to be appropriate if you discussed your unilatteral action with silsor considering he enacted the indefinite blocks. Thanks. Arminius 02:55, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Come join the AIW

You are not currently a member of the Association of Inclusionist Wikipedians. We encourage you to become a member, by listing yourself as such on the AIW page. Posiduck 05:05, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Deletionism

Central High School the largest highschool in Traverse city is up for deletion. Schools stubs can grow and I believe are inherently important articles, i hope you will vote to keep this article :o). --ShaunMacPherson 20:29, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

WP:VFD/HS

Just letting you know that I thought you might be interested in taking a look at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/High schools, as well as what I wrote on Wikipedia talk:Deletion policy. —Lowellian (talk)[[]] 05:44, Oct 31, 2004 (UTC)

Creative Commons

Hey, just wanted to let you know that you can use the {{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}} template on your user page to update your Creative Commons license to include version 2.0 as well as version 1.0. -- Ram-Man 03:03, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)

I've been following your thread over at the Village Pump. I mod for a Creative Commons by-sa based wiki, so I follow the issue pretty close. Here is a Village Pump thread I started when I first found out about GFDL/CC incompatibility, in case you want to read up on prior art. I was planning on getting back on the issue soon, but your thread left me a bit flat-footed. I've put in my two cents - hopefully I didn't hurt matters. Since the problem is technically complex, we probably ought to solicit advice from coders and other Wiki movers and shakers before attempting to go on the Village Pump again. Assuming, of course, that the problem isn't solved in the current attempt. Unfortunately, it looks like everbody is distracted with the upcoming holidays and the AbCom election. So, after the first of the year, do you want to help get a posse together? crazyeddie 23:04, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Image:Tulehu.png

Thanks for uploading Image:Tulehu.png. I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know its copyright status? (You can use {{gfdl}} if you release it under the GFDL, or {{fairuse}} if you claim fair use, etc.) If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know where you got the images and I'll tag them for you. Thanks so much, – Quadell (talk) (help)[[]] 18:38, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for taking care of that. It's a great picture, by the way. – Quadell (talk) (help)[[]] 18:41, Nov 18, 2004 (UTC)

What is damaging?

I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure what you meant by "but please, this is very damaging". Could you explain? Sorry \-: —siroχo 22:35, Nov 24, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. Your concern is something I took into account before removing the pages from VfD. Yes, we do have a process and it's part of the deletion policy. If you take a look at it you'll see what the cases under which you can list an item on vfd are. (top of the "Problems that may require deletion" section) The ones I removed clearly did not apply to any of those cases, thus the process never even should have started. Its not even that another solution was found and we should wait a day to remove them, its that the listings do not comply with the deletion policy at all. I see no reason to let them linger. —siroχo 22:45, Nov 24, 2004 (UTC)

Perhaps encouraging "education" of vfd-goers would help the most. I bet most people voting for the first time on VfD, and probably even several regulars are not entirely familiar with the deletion policy (hence the persistence of unqualified "non-notable"s as reasons). I don't think there is major need for reform considering the current deletion model, except that the policy should be enforced better. This would, in part, involve removing invalid listings as they appear, instead of assuming that its everyone's right to list any article they wish on VfD. Perhaps I acted a little rashly, but when an abuse of policy is entirely obvious, I see no reason to allow it to continue instead of taking steps to correct it immediately, even if it must be on a case-by-case basis. —siroχo 23:04, Nov 24, 2004 (UTC)

I see your point regarding subjectiveness of appropriate listings, and that premature removal could be dangerous. But at present there really isn't anything else stopping someone from listing several articles that do not merit deletion on vfd just to troll. I have to drive a friend to the airport right now, but I'll keep thinking on this. —siroχo 23:19, Nov 24, 2004 (UTC)

Debate about deleting an image

Greetings. There is a spirited debate going on here about whether or not to delete Image:Nevada-Tan.jpg for privacy reasons. Since you have recently voiced an opinion on Wikipedia:Divulging personal details, I thought you might be interested in weighing in. – Quadell (talk) (help)[[]] 18:46, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)

After ten days, it was 8 to 8 or 9, and there was no clear consensus. On ifd, if there is no clear consensus to delete, the image stays. I removed the ifd notice from the pic. – Quadell (talk) (help)[[]] 22:43, Dec 9, 2004 (UTC)


Unverified images

Hi! Thanks for uploading the following image:

I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know its copyright status? (You can use {{gfdl}} if you release it under the GNU Free Documentation License, {{fairuse}} if you claim [[Wikipedia:Fair use|fair us

Also:

Another one

Hi! Thanks for uploading the following image:

I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know its copyright status? (You can use {{gfdl}}:

if you release it under the GNU Free Documentation License, {{fairuse}}

if you claim fair use, and so on.) If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know at my talk page where you got the image from, and I'll tag it for you. Thanks so much. Denni☯ 04:23, 2004 Dec 13 (UTC)

P.S. You can help tag other images at Wikipedia:Untagged_Images. Thanks again.

GIS tutorials

I'm actually rather new to GIS (only been working in the field for a couple years now - still so much I don't know). Sadly there isn't anything free on the Internet that I know of, but ESRI courses seem to be pretty good (if a bit pricey). See http://campus.esri.com/campus/coursesearch/search/processNewUsersCatalog.cfm?CFID=3901879&CFTOKEN=88883689 I've only taken a few of those courses, but I think they were well worth the money. Unless you know you will have to work with it, I'd stay away from ArcView 3.x and go with learning ArcGIS 9.x since the former is being phased out. --mav 01:13, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

VfD

I don't see how BM listing Lloyd House on VfD is 'deletion trolling', as you so eloquently put it. Just because you're an inclusionist doesn't mean that some deletion vote requests you don't agree with are 'trolling'. You are very much in the minority on the keep side on this one. hfool 22:49, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Of course, no harm done. Happy new year to you as well. hfool 01:42, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)
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