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ArbCom voting
Hi,
I notice that you asked the 37 candidates not to vote. I understand the motivation (civility, decorum). I do disagree (two reasons, one, I want to see how they handle themselves, two, as I expect 100 - 300 votes, these would represent perhaps 15% of the most informed voters abstaining). Anyhow, leave my reasons aside. Would you consider relocating your requests to Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2006/Candidate statements? That way other users could discuss the request. Notice, that even though you have phrased it in the form of a question, it is really a request to act (or not act) and not a question soliciting information.
Thank you for thinking it over. Jd2718 20:53, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Other users can discuss the request at Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2006/Candidate statements if they like, but I still want to hear an answer (and reasoning) from each individual candidate. This will help me make up my mind about them. --Cyde Weys 22:13, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
- Cyde, you made a statement instead of asking a question on the candidates' pages. Perhaps you could add a Do you agree? to the end to turn it into a question. Cheers, NoSeptember 22:36, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
- Good point, on second reading it doesn't look like I exactly encapsulated what I was trying to say. --Cyde Weys 22:39, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
- The problem for me is that you have asked the candidates to behave in a certain way. Even the "would you agree?" leaves us essentially with a request. I would like them (and apparently Mailer Diablo would like them) to behave differently. So now instead of one discussion on the talk page, we've got 37 little conversations. At this point it can't be avoided, as I want their assurances that they will vote as much as you would like their assurances that they won't. Jd2718 22:50, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
- It's a pretty standard type of question, actually, and I've seen it in numerous other ArbCom questions. I don't think it's unreasonable. "Here is what I think; do you agree?" If you want their assurances that they will vote, you can simply look and see if they agree with me or not. Some do, some don't. --Cyde Weys 22:54, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
- We have a new problem, which is that you have deleted comments by another user, Mailer Diablo. Not only were they his comments, but they reflected what I wanted to see put to the candidates. I don't know my WP: Policies well enough to tell which the deletions are in violation of, but they certainly violate something. Please restore Mailer Diablo's comments, or I will need to file a report. Jd2718 23:08, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
- If you want to ask your own questions in separate section headings, you are free to do so. Just please don't answer my questions to the candidate without even giving the candidate a chance to respond first. This is question/answer with the candidates; it's not a threaded discussion free-for-all. And by the way, why am I communicating through you with Mailer Diablo? This doesn't make sense. I have nothing against him. I've already tried talking to him twice, only to be snubbed by comment blanking or "merging", and then have you relaying for him. Please tell him to talk with me directly. --Cyde Weys 23:10, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
- I filed a report here. Jd2718 23:48, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
- For future reference, posting a new section on ANI isn't really "filing a report". There's no real process for that kind of thing on ANI; people just post comments there when they have grievances, and sometimes others mostly agree with them, or sometimes they mostly disagree with them. --Cyde Weys 00:00, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
- I filed a report here. Jd2718 23:48, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
- If you want to ask your own questions in separate section headings, you are free to do so. Just please don't answer my questions to the candidate without even giving the candidate a chance to respond first. This is question/answer with the candidates; it's not a threaded discussion free-for-all. And by the way, why am I communicating through you with Mailer Diablo? This doesn't make sense. I have nothing against him. I've already tried talking to him twice, only to be snubbed by comment blanking or "merging", and then have you relaying for him. Please tell him to talk with me directly. --Cyde Weys 23:10, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
- We have a new problem, which is that you have deleted comments by another user, Mailer Diablo. Not only were they his comments, but they reflected what I wanted to see put to the candidates. I don't know my WP: Policies well enough to tell which the deletions are in violation of, but they certainly violate something. Please restore Mailer Diablo's comments, or I will need to file a report. Jd2718 23:08, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
- It's a pretty standard type of question, actually, and I've seen it in numerous other ArbCom questions. I don't think it's unreasonable. "Here is what I think; do you agree?" If you want their assurances that they will vote, you can simply look and see if they agree with me or not. Some do, some don't. --Cyde Weys 22:54, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
- The problem for me is that you have asked the candidates to behave in a certain way. Even the "would you agree?" leaves us essentially with a request. I would like them (and apparently Mailer Diablo would like them) to behave differently. So now instead of one discussion on the talk page, we've got 37 little conversations. At this point it can't be avoided, as I want their assurances that they will vote as much as you would like their assurances that they won't. Jd2718 22:50, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
- Good point, on second reading it doesn't look like I exactly encapsulated what I was trying to say. --Cyde Weys 22:39, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
My username
The "210" in my sig doesn't represent atomic weight. My sig is just configured into such a way that it represents an element designation. The "210" represents a date. ;) --210physicq (c) 00:25, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
My answers
Heya Cyde. Just a heads up, per your request, that I've wrapped up the answers to my Questions page. I will completely understand if you wish to retain your oppose vote in light of this personal delay. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 10:22, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Correcting your comment
Hi Cyde. I see that you changed your voting comment at Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2006/Vote/Geogre with this edit, but Geogre's comment is still there. This is a bit misleading, as it is not clear now what Geogre was responding to - it probably would have been better if you had removed his comment at the same time and said that you had changed your comment. I've removed Geogre's comment and I hope you will make clear that your comments have changed as well - at the moment it looks like that is what you wrote at 00:07 on 04/12/06 - when you actually rewrote it at 03:09. Carcharoth 14:56, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm not responsible for his comment; he shouldn't have left one there in the first place, as it goes against the election rules. --Cyde Weys 15:41, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
- Of course. As long as you are happy with my correcting of the misleading situation your edit created. Do you mind if I add a small comment to your edit noting that the timestamp is wrong and that you changed your comment? Carcharoth 15:55, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
- How about if I just change it back to what I originally wrote? Why does it matter so much anyway? --Cyde Weys 15:57, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
- Of course you can change it back to what you originally wrote. But for clarity, it would be best if you noted the editing and changes you are making, as this is not clear from just looking at the page. A certain amount of minor editing and corrections is acceptable (I do this as well), but given the history here, especially the comments further down the page where people refer to your vote (eg. "Per Scobell302 and Cyde." and "Accusatory response to Cyde's oppose above is bad enough.", it would seem that the amoutn of work to clarify what has happened is justified. I'm really quite happy to add 'small comments' myself to clarify what happened. Not quite sure what to make of "Support per Cyde and Ideogram."... :-) Carcharoth 16:11, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
- How about if I just change it back to what I originally wrote? Why does it matter so much anyway? --Cyde Weys 15:57, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Current arbitrators voting
Hi Cyde. I just noticed that Fred Bauder has voted in the elections. Given your note to the candidates about voting in the elections, would you consider sending a similar note to the current arbitrators? It seems to me that the same reasoning would apply about arbitrators who voted against each other having to work together. Of course, this whole thing becomes a bit silly when you consider that those running in this election might have voted against current arbitrators when those arbitrators were elected (in a different tranche). I agree with MailerDiablo that voting is OK (you should never really restrict that anyway), but that candidates and current arbitrators should not give divisive reasoning (I see that Fred has sensibly not added a comment). Carcharoth 15:11, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Had I known that current arbitrators were going to involve themselves in the elections I would have sent out a similar note ahead of time, but now that it is too late, I don't see much point in proceeding. Besides, Fred's votes (with no associated comments) are not nearly as bad as the stuff I was really trying to protect against. --Cyde Weys 15:51, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks for explaining. If I'm around when Fred comes up for re-election (if he runs, in two years I think) I'll try and remember to ask him this voting question of yours! :-) I'll be interested to see if any other sitting arbitrators vote. Carcharoth 15:58, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
- Actually, Fred is in Alpha Tranche, which comes up next year (see Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee). I believe Charles Matthews has also voted in this year's election (just supports, no opposes, no comments). Newyorkbrad 17:26, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Look for an email from me
Hi Cyde :-) Look for an email from me dated 2 AM last night. I'm interested in your thoughts. Take care, --FloNight 17:20, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
- Look for another email, time around 6 PM. FloNight 23:06, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Trust (or lack of)
I find it exceptionally sad that you were quite happy for people to trust you during your RfA process but your not prepared to return the favour and trust me. Especially as you were in a very similar situation and only had 3 full months of solid participation before you were promoted. Kind Regards - Heligoland | Talk | Contribs 20:43, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, but it's not at all the same situation. I do trust myself. I do not know that I can trust you. If that's inconsistent, so be it. Everyone is inconsistent when it comes to evaluating others versus evaluating themselves. --Cyde Weys 23:04, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
- I'm glad you recognise that to be inconsistent. I look forward to your support at my next RfA. In the interim, I suggest reviewing my edits and confirming that you can trust me. Best Wishes and Kind Regards - Heligoland | Talk | Contribs 23:51, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Arbcom voting
Oops, too late. I decided to only vote "support" (except for one polite instance) and leave all the candidates I didn't like alone. I do respect your point, though. Matt Yeager ♫ (Talk?) 23:40, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Regarding Moral Support
My intent with moral support voting is to suggest that I think the user is trying to be nominated (for admin,arbcom,whatever) for good reasons, but simply does not meet the requirements. Some of the answers given I did like. I did not oppose, and if I had not voted moral support I simply would not have voted at all (since there is no neutral). I certainly not voting moral support out of some kind of Janus-like ambiguity of choice. --ElaragirlTalk|Count 22:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
Your question
Cyde, I removed your question from Paul's page. He'll answer if he wants to, so please don't restore it. It's too late in the day for that kind of question. SlimVirgin (talk) 23:40, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
This is ridiculous. You're saying I'm not allowed to ask a question about something in his candidate statement? No way. If the question offends you, please try to find a way to ask the same question that is less offensive, but don't remove it entirely. --Cyde Weys 23:51, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
And Slim, it's really a shame that you've gone so far downhill as to accuse me of trolling; wherever did you get the idea that it was acceptable to throw around such words about fellow admins? Do you really want to work in such a nasty environment? I'm not going to reciprocate in kind. And by the way, if an uncomfortable question is asked, the best solution is not to get three different people to try to repeatedly censor it. That makes the third-party readers think there's something very sinister going on. --Cyde Weys 23:56, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
- Cyde, you know it's provocative, and unfair to Paul and to Geogre. If you really want to know Paul's opinion of Geogre, e-mail him. If you continue to restore this, there's a risk you'll be blocked for disruption, and it's not worth it, so please just let it drop. SlimVirgin (talk) 23:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
- The point of the question/answer pages is so that everyone can see the results; if it's done in email, it may help me make up my mind, but it won't help others make up their mind. And I don't care if you think my question is "provocative"; it has to do with the substance of his candidate statement and I have every right to ask it. Are we now not allowed to ask anything but bland questions? --Cyde Weys 00:02, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
- You're not allowed to ask questions that amount to personal attacks, and you know whatever answer he gives, or fails to give, won't make a difference to the outcome of the election anyway, so there's no point. In any event, he'll see the question and answer if he wants to. I've protected the page in the meantime and I hope you'll respect that. SlimVirgin (talk) 00:11, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
- This is beyond ridiculous. How is asking a candidate if they endorse someone a "personal attack"? Really, you're just making stuff up now, using certain keywords like "personal attack" and "disruption" because you think if you use those words to describe my actions it'll let you get away with blocking me. Luckily, arbitrators are a bit smarter than that. --Cyde Weys 00:14, 6 December 2006 (UTC)