Lir

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Thanks for the message. One minor inaccurary however. Until the 18th century a number of titles were used. Prime Minister became the sole title from the late eighteenth century. First Lord of the Treasury, though in theory the senior title, in practice is an empty shell, a largely meaningless title that goes with PM, but from the late 18th century PM was the title, even though it never received formal official status until 1905. FearÉIREANN 21:06, 19 Oct 2003 (UTC)

re Jesus: where do you get off, deleting my text without any discussion? I am trying to solve a very difficult problem at that page, and this kind of rude and arbitrary behaviour does not help. Adam 07:04, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)

You deleted the entire section headed The Problem of Jesus. I deleted the reference to ascetics along with all the other historically unsustainable statements in the opening paragraphs, for reasons I explained in the section you deleted! Adam 07:09, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)

OK, thanks. Now we can try and write an opening paragraph. Adam

The opening para ought to be a statement of what everyone can agree on. That he was an ascetic can only be known if you accept the historicity of the Gospels, which is precisely what is not generally accepted. Adam

Thanks :-) Evil saltine 09:35, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)

You are making no effort to achieve an acceptable text, you are just inserting your religious POV in the text, so I will revert and go on doing so. Adam 13:01, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)

re: Jesus page Lir after discussions with Adam have come to compromise over the first paragraph on Jesus. I hope this is acceptable to you. I've put the following text on the Jesus talk page:

Suggested compromise

The principal reason this page was protected was over disagreements concerning the initial paragraph, between Adam, Lir and myself; though I think I was mostly an accidental participant which confused the issue still further. Two way fights are so much easier to disentangle!

Talking with Adam we have agreed this compromise which is a mix of contributions Adam, Lir and myself:

"Jesus Christ (or Jesus of Nazareth, see alternate names below) (c. 4 BC - c. 30) was, according to Christian belief, the Son of God, who brought salvation to man through his crucifixion and resurrection. Jesus is considered to be a major religious figure by several other religions, for instance, he is regarded as a prophet in Islam. The primary source of historical knowledge, about Jesus, is contained within the Christian Gospels, which Christians view as the divinely inspired writings of God.</> Most secular historians accept that the Gospels are sufficient evidence that Jesus existed, but do not believe that the details of his life can be known from the available evidence.

There is no mention of Jesus as an ascetic, because it seems from discussions on this page that it is not considered a sufficiently important matter to raise in the introductory paragraph.
Also I believe Adam has agree to retitle section 1 from 'The Problem of Jesus' to the more innocent 'Introduction'.
I believe that if this compromise is acceptable, we can get the protection from the page removed, and continue as normal.: ChrisG 12:10, 23 Oct 2003 (UTC)