Overcrowding
- This small piece of land is perhaps the most crowded piece of real estate on the planet and is home to about a million Palestinians. Most of these people lived in other parts of Palestine prior to the Naqba (the establishment of the state of Israel), when they had to flee. These Palestinians have not been allowed to return to their home villages, in violation of international law, in particular the fourth Geneva convention.
- While it is popular to describe the Gaza Strip as crowded, it has about the same population as Manhattan Island on a piece of land that is more than 7 times as large. And Manhattan is filled up with offices, highways, and parks. The daytime population of Manhattan is much larger, of course, as workers come in for the day. Gaza is also about twice the size of Washington DC, which has a population more than twice as large as the Gaza Strip. The above paragraph contains the common myth about Gaza.
- Recently, Israel has established settlements (or colonies as Palestinans call them) inside the Gaza strip. Although home to only a few thousand people, large parts of the Gaza strip have been reserved for them. This has worsened the situation of the Palestinians yet further.
The questions of refugees and settlements have been discussed at length in other articles, it is redundant to state them here (as opposed to linking) and have to argue about them again. --Uri
Uriyan -- I have moved some of the points of the above text back in, but have tried to stick to objective facts about the history and demographics of Gaza, and avoided politico-legal issues like the Geneva Conventions. I partly agree with you -- this page is not the place for detailed discussion about the general issue of Palestinan refugees or Israeli settlements. However, it still should mention basic demographic facts, such as how many Palestinians and settlers are there, how much land there is, how much land per capita each uses, how did so many Palestinians end up in such a small area (refugees from 1948 war -- arguments about exactly why they left can be left for elsewhere.) -- SJK
Shouldn't we move the country table to the entry on the Palestinian Authority? Otherwise, we would end up with two different tables for the Palestinian entity (which probably will become an independent nation witin 5 years). I have no objection to the content; I just don't want readers who visit Wikipedia to imagine that Gaza and the West Bank are two different nations. Rather, they are semi-autonomously controlled regions under Israeli administration that soon likely will fuse into one independent nation. RK
- Robert, your optimism inspires me! Five years - I would have estimated more like fifty. May it come to pass as you predict! :)
- I'm in two minds about your suggestion. I don't have a problem with there being duplicated info in West Bank - after all, only some info would be duplicated - the West Bank has a different area and population density, for example. I think Hong Kong is a good example of a broadly similar situation... Martin
- I removed the president and PM, because while in some sense Arafat is the president of the strip, in another sense Sharon is, and in a third sense, nobody is. So it seems misleading to just say President=Sharon. I think the rest of the info can stay... Martin
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Palestinian Refugees
Before you proceed to delete my entry again, perhaps you could specify what part of it in your opinion constitutes a POV, and prove that it has no factual basis. What part do you object to? That the majority are refugees, or that they fled voluntarily? Just because certain facts speak in Israel's favour in no way impairs their status as facts which can safely be included in a NPOV article. LoveOfFate 18:21, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)
- The "voluntarily" is a nonsense (but I don't have to prove it's a nonsense, only to note that it is regarded as such by a body of learned opinion). It is also POV to give the war the name used by only one of the sides. --Zero 20:57, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)
- Since you refuse to provide any references to factual evidence that would justify deleting my entry, I have chosen to take the initiative and provide some of my own sources.
According to you, adding the word voluntarily is a [sic] nonsense as decided by a "body of learned opinion." I am curious who exactly these venerable scholars of yours are, but have no way of knowing since you obviously do not feel compelled to list your sources.
As for mine, a plethora of evidence exists demonstrating that Palestinians were encouraged to leave their homes to make way for the invading Arab armies.
The Economist, a frequent critic of the Zionists, reported on October 2, 1948: "Of the 62,000 Arabs who formerly lived in Haifa not more than 5,000 or 6,000 remained. Various factors influenced their decision to seek safety in flight. There is but little doubt that the most potent of the factors were the announcements made over the air by the Higher Arab Executive, urging the Arabs to quit....It was clearly intimated that those Arabs who remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection would be regarded as renegades."
Time's report of the battle for Haifa (May 3, 1948) was similar: "The mass evacuation, prompted partly by fear, partly by orders of Arab leaders, left the Arab quarter of Haifa a ghost city....By withdrawing Arab workers their leaders hoped to paralyze Haifa."
Benny Morris, the historian who documented instances where Palestinians were expelled, also found that Arab leaders encouraged their brethren to leave. The Arab National Committee in Jerusalem, following the March 8, 1948, instructions of the Arab Higher Committee, ordered women, children and the elderly in various parts of Jerusalem to leave their homes: "Any opposition to this order...is an obstacle to the holy war...and will hamper the operations of the fighters in these districts" (Middle Eastern Studies, January 1986).
And perhaps most conclusive: In his memoirs, Haled al Azm, the Syrian Prime Minister in 1948-49, also admitted the Arab role in persuading the refugees to leave:
“Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes. But we ourselves are the ones who encouraged them to leave. Only a few months separated our call to them to leave and our appeal to the United Nations to resolve on their return.”
I am prepared to compromise and rename the War of Israeli Independence to the more neutral 1948 Arab-Israeli War.
What you seem to overlook is that Wikipedia is an eliteless, collaborative endeavour and I will not tolerate you deleting my entries simply because the facts don't suit you. The only thing that makes any user's argument more valid than another's is providing facts to support it, at which point the argument is essentially over unless of course, the other party chooses to ignore the facts. So stop ignoring the facts, and bring evidence to support yourself if you seriously believe my entries are factually unsound. LoveOfFate 22:26, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)
- Oh not again. Have you actually read any of these sources? The poor quality of your reply indicates that you know very little about this subject. Did you read Morris' new book? Btw, there is a better version of Azm's text in Palestinian Exodus (taken by me directly from the memoirs). Meanwhile, here is a little quotation for you, given you like quotations so much. --Zero 05:47, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)
- I don't suggest that we should trample on others' rights, but one must call a spade a spade: Zionism and rights don't always go hand-in-hand. The very establishment of this state is an affront to the Arabs' rights. Arabs lived in Jaffa. They didn't leave; they were expelled. We went into the villages and said 'Get out.' And they got out. Yes, it's important for me and others that this state be a democratic one, but you still have to consider the difference between ourselves and the other countries and remember that democracy is not an end in itself but rather an instrument. Zionism takes precedence over everything.
-- Limor Livnat, member of the Likud Central Committee, quoted in Tikkun, Sep/Oct 1991, p14.
Is there some information about the isaelian wall in the gaza strip available in Wikipedia, I can not find it.
History of Gaza
I think the history of gaza might be appopriate - but when I say history I mean *history*; at least 2000 years worth. It would help to indicate the jewish and arab links to the area and I was frankly surprised not to find such a history on this page. Maybe I'll add one but I'm concerned by the degree of emotion surrounding articles like this one and perhaps any history I could add would never be considered unbiased by all sides and would probably be promptly deleted. So I'm wondering if some sort of consensus can be reached. There are solid sources concerning Napoleon's march across the gaza strip. Similarly, there are legal documents pertaining to the Ottoman administration of the sanyak/vilayet that could be used; as well as archeological evidence. However, since all these sources would seem to indicate a strong historical Jewish presence in gaza they, of necessity, would attract controversy on this site. Apparently the enlightened neo-liberal post-modernist trend in world affairs is to regard jews in gaza as recent alien "settlers" and to strive to drive them out and seal the borders against their return. In fact, perhaps it would be fair to say that the general historical trend in world affairs is to regard jews anywhere and everywhere as alien "settlers" and to drive them out and seal the borders against their return.. or am I being too extreme? - 84.228.103.146 11:09, 5 July 2005
One of the most densely populated areas?
From the article - I think this should be removed:
- as a result it has one of the highest population densities in the world
Highest population densities of what? It sure isn't denser than many cities in the world. The Gaza strip is roughly the size of Dublin city and its environs (pop. roughly 1 million) and that's one of the least dense cities in the world.
Gaza city itself looks quite dense judging by the map, but I would doubt it even remotely bargains for the position of one of the most dense cities!
Gaza Photos
Archieved to Talk:Gaza Strip/yalop - I got a 37Kb warning. On a talk page! It blew up my browser! Josh Parris ✉ 04:35, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
A new discussion on the pbase Gaza photos
Archieved to Talk:Gaza Strip/yalop2 - I got a 37Kb warning. Again! Josh Parris ✉ 02:15, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Discussion on the pbase Gaza photos continues
Archieved to Talk:Gaza Strip/yalop3 Josh Parris ✉ 5 July 2005 01:36 (UTC)
Typo - missing word
From the article: "The Israeli settlemnts were built on sand dunes that were not used by the Palestinian residents of Gaza but now use more per capita than the Palestinian population."
Maybe it's just me, but "now use more" what? Water? This seems to be missing a key word.
Intro
Heraclius, I see you've reverted the intro again. Would you mind discussing your reasons here? Many thanks, SlimVirgin (talk) 20:28, July 13, 2005 (UTC)