Talk:Iglesia ni Cristo
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Previous discussions:
Unanswered questions in archive
Sources
Sources are requested for the following so that the Disputed flag can be removed:
- The reason for Felix Manalo's departure from his early church memberships.
I believe that this can be sourced from God's Message for July-September 1994. Can someone verify this and give the title of the article? —Theo (Talk) 17:20, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
- I know it was also covered in the 1993 "25 Years in the West" Issue.--Onlytofind 01:13, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
- Church structure—essentially the roles within its organisation.
- Church beliefs and practices.
Each doctrine is written in a book that is published by the INC but is not available to all members of the church. Is there a publicly available source? —Theo (Talk) 17:20, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
- Not to my knowledge. They might be covered in a Pasugo article though, I'm not sure.--Onlytofind 01:13, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
- Missionary activities
- The four internal organizations.
Personal Comment Moved from main article
- Note to the members of the Iglesia Ni Cristo: Brethren, Let us make sure that this article contains only the truth about the true church. This article is a good tool for missionary activities therefore let us not allow our detactors to use this site to belittle the Church of Christ.
This statement was written by 207.233.11.90 (talk · contribs) on the top of the INC article. Since it's a comment written for the editors of the article, I've moved it to where it belongs. --LBMixPro(Speak on it!) 02:59, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
- Welcome to Wikipedia. Wikipedia (or WP as it's sometimes called) has a set of rules and policies, which are made so not to belittle the church, any other subject on the site, nor this site in general. For all new editors to the article, please read WP site policies. Most importantly, this one. Any contribution which fits in the rules of Wikipedia are most welcome, as this article is edited by both supporters and opponents of INC. No matter what their view of the church is, everybody is bound by the Neutural Point of View and must realize that WP is not a tool for advocacy of any kind. Also, you may want to create a username for yourself by clicking the link in the top right hand corner, so you can be easily identified and have many more features than of an anonymous contributer. --LBMixPro(Speak on it!) 03:30, July 15, 2005 (UTC) (updated 14:05, July 21, 2005 (UTC))
- Browsing the edit history of this article, it seems many INC members take this view towards the article. I'm especially concerned about the lack of neutrality towards other religions from their edits.--Ironbrew 08:46, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
- Can you tell us which parts of the article you feel are particularly biased, so we can tackle down the issues? --LBMixPro(Speak on it!) 08:39, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
- I think the major issues have been hammered out already, but it seems the same lady or gentleman who wrote the above POV comment is beginning to insert their personal opinion into this and other INC-related pages as seen by their edits to this and Eduardo Manalo.--Ironbrew 04:20, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
- The other side of the coin is that they are preventing you from inserting your personal opinion to the said articles.
- You have removed contributions with succinct evidence and proof because it seems that you are afraid of any statement which portrays the INC in an unfavourable light, no matter how factual it is. You can either abide by NPOV or have your malicious edits reverted.--Ironbrew 18:33, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
- I'm afraid I'll have to agree with whoever's reverting Ironbrew's edit. Not for POV pushing, which I believe the edit is perfectly NPOV, since it states why religious groups critisize INC, but for the reason of not having a sufficient reference link. The disputed text here is "with the INC holding the belief that it has the sole authority from God to interpret and preach the Bible, and that other religions do not.[http://student631.tripod.com/biblestudentspage/id29.html]"
- Can you tell us which parts of the article you feel are particularly biased, so we can tackle down the issues? --LBMixPro(Speak on it!) 08:39, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
But one problem remains. The link referenced shows proof about INC's belief of sole authority, but it doesn't show proof of why it is critisized.Until you provide a reference link which actually cites critisism for sole authority, I'll have to assume it as original research or personal opinion, sorry. --LBMixPro(Speak on it!) 01:27, July 24, 2005 (UTC)
Forum links
I removed the following from the main article:
- Iglesia ni Cristo in a nutshell (Doctrines exposed) - Postings by Cultic Research in 2002/2003 on an INC forum.
- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10(1) (2) (3) 11 12(1) (2) 13(1) (2) 14 15 16 17(1) (2) (3) 18(1) (2) (3) 19(1) (2) (3) 20(1) (2) 21(1) (2) 22(1) (2) (3) 23(1) (2) 24(1) (2) 25(1) (2)
because it feels like just too much. Is there some way that this can be consolidated into a single source? —Theo (Talk) 19:06, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
An outsider's comment
I am not familiar with the INC, and hadn't heard of it before reading this article. I have to say that the introduction is quite strange and not particularly clear.
- The intro indicates that most notable thing about the INC is the architecture of it's church. Is that correct?
- Did Felix Manalo found the INC? If so, the intro should state it.
- I don't what to say about the grammar of this sentence: "It claims to be the reestablishment in the last days of the first church established by Jesus through fulfillment of biblical prophecies."
- "It is a Christian church that does not accept the doctrine of the Trinity." Why is this in the intro?
--K. 05:38, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
From a physical perspective, yes. But from a religious standpoint, they're mostly viewed in a way which violates NPOV. According to members, Manalo isn't the founder, but Jesus is, hence the name "Church of Christ". Which brings us to your next question... A clearer way to say the above could be: INC claims to have been the reestablshment of the original Church, ran by Jesus; which is the fulfillment of prophecies based around the Revealation. The reason why that sentence about the trinity is in the intro paragraph because it's a distinguishing feature that sets itself apart from most Christian chruches. --LBMixPro(Speak on it!)
I have taken the suggestion of LBMixPro and recast that confusing sentence. —Theo (Talk) 10:45, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
- I see your point about Manalo founding the church. But saying "it was registered" sounds like it was operating in the Philipines prior to that, which doesn't seem to be the case. It needs to be worded differently.
- I am amazed that the spires are most notable thing. I've never heard of a church being notable for it's spires! Seriously though, what source says that it is noted for the spires? --K. 11:06, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
- Well, if you look at the about.com entry about INC, it says this: "One way to recognize them is that they are built to be aerodynamic and include structures on the sides of the church building that could be mistake for a rocket; INC members believe that a time will comes when Christ removes his church from the earth for a period of time during which non-believers will suffer tribulation -- and when they say "remove his church" they mean that the actual building will take off into the air and up into heaven, and that the believers who are inside at the time will go with it..." So from a physical standpoint, in a sense you only know about INC just by looking at the outside of a chapel, it is noted by its spires. It's other source of noteritey is the anti-NPOV perception of INC being a cult. --LBMixPro(Speak on it!) 01:06, July 24, 2005 (UTC)
- Checking back in - hi K.! - it's neo-Gothic architecture, which has spires, and there are many other churches elsewhere with similar designs. That may well be uncommon in the Philippines, but the explanation about aerodynamics looks absolute tosh to me. About.com is far less accountable for its contents than Wikipedia. Tearlach 22:51, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
- Well, if you look at the about.com entry about INC, it says this: "One way to recognize them is that they are built to be aerodynamic and include structures on the sides of the church building that could be mistake for a rocket; INC members believe that a time will comes when Christ removes his church from the earth for a period of time during which non-believers will suffer tribulation -- and when they say "remove his church" they mean that the actual building will take off into the air and up into heaven, and that the believers who are inside at the time will go with it..." So from a physical standpoint, in a sense you only know about INC just by looking at the outside of a chapel, it is noted by its spires. It's other source of noteritey is the anti-NPOV perception of INC being a cult. --LBMixPro(Speak on it!) 01:06, July 24, 2005 (UTC)