Talk:Morrissey

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Englishrose (talk | contribs) at 23:09, 1 February 2006 (-Source analysis=). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Latest comment: 19 years ago by Englishrose in topic -Source analysis=

Morrisseymusic.com

Why is Morrisseymusic.com listed as morrissey's official website? Didn't Morrissey say, "Thirdly, I have no connection at all with the site called Morrisseymusic.com. It is controlled by Sanctuary and I am neither consulted nor involved."--199.176.241.60 13:39, 9 November 2005 (UTC)Reply

It's controlled by Sanctuary but that was considered his official site. http://www.true-to-you.net/ is the site Morrissey uses communicate with fans, that's more like his offical site. Englishrose 14:22, 16 January 2006 (UTC)Reply

Racism

Was there anything that prompted the accusation of racism more than performing in the Union Flag? This objectively looks nationalistic, not racist! David.Monniaux 12:04, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I'm no expert but some read into Morrissey's lyrics that he was racist - "hang the DJ" in "Panic. Apparantly at the time most DJ's were black. A bit tenious i know but some apparantly really do believe it. His comments such as "black people and white people will never really get on or like each other" didnt help either. Hopefully someone with more knowledge can shed a bit of light on it.--195.188.152.14 01:12, 22 May 2004 (UTC)Reply

I think Morrissey's statements were more against genres of music rather than races of people. At the hight of this allegation, Morrissey was seen draped in the Union Flag - something at the time which was uncommon but now, since the Spice Girls' appearance a normality. Ironically, Morrissey also said that "reggae is vile" and his latest contract is with a vile record label. Kabads


Officially, "Panic" was written after a DJ named Steve Wright aired a "futile" Wham! music after a Chernobyl newscast. WolfenSilva
I think the accusations of racism stem from songs like "Bengali in Platforms" and "Asian Rut", and lyrics like "England for the English". I don't actually think Morrissey is being racist-- a lot of this "evidence", and most of his songs, consist of hyperbole, archetype and metaphor. MisterSheik
For Asian Rut and National Front Disco is simply the narrator. In fact, I feel that the song Asian Rut is anti-racist with lyrics such as "Oh, English boys, It must be wrong, Three against one?". I personally think Asian Rut is about desiring humanity based on lyrics such as "(I'm) On my way to somewhere civilised and maybe I'll even arrive". As for National Front Disco, yeah I can see why it is racist BUT Morrissey is describing the events of somebody losing their son to the NF. He does not endorse it. Thus to say that song is racist is absurd. "Bengali in Platforms" isn't racist either. It's more of a celebration of being different and not having to fit in. Morrissey writes this in third person and he is concerned that the subject might "hate" him; it shows affection rather than hatred. In a documentary Morrissey said, "why would I be racist? What would I be trying to achieve?" Don't forget Morrissey is also very positive about his Latino fan-base, which contradicts that he's racist. Englishrose 14:22, 16 January 2006 (UTC)Reply

Miscellaneous

The item that begins "In retaliation to the above-mentioned statement, a contradictory statement, purportedly made by Morrissey..." and continues to quote at length a statement from Morrissey taken off www.true-to-you.net is likely out of the bounds of "fair use" and likely copyright infringement. Even if it is not, I have no idea why such a long and barely newsworthy statement is on what's supposed to be an encyclopedia page.--MrFluff 05:44, 13 December 2005 (UTC)Reply


I removed the item on the Curse of Morrissey. Feel free to re-add if this can be proven to be a common term (hardly registers on google outside of this Wiki-page).


Should the quote from Moz about voting against GWB be removed? It's already on WikiQuote, and this page is getting out of control.--MrFluff 05:53, 13 December 2005 (UTC)Reply

Moz

This is a name people use to refer to Steven Patrick Morrissey. He is more commonly known as Morrissey. He was the lead singer in The Smiths, and later went on to a solo career.


Thank you very much for sharing these pearls of wisdom with us all, thank God we can sleep easy tonight.

WHAT?!?!

"Morrissey is engaged to Jonathon Violet, a famous tunesmith from northern England. "

Who the hell wrote that? Where's the source?

Feud with Robert Smith?

Can anybody elaborate about the 'lifelong' feud between Morrissey and The Cure's Robert Smith?

The whole thing started due to some fairly inocuous comments made by Robert Smith about the Smiths. While he professed an admiration for the Smiths, he added the comment "Morrissey’s so depressing, if he doesn’t kill himself soon, I probably will," which was probably meant in jest, after all, no-one is more aware of Morrissey's miserablist tendancies than Morrissey himself. However, Morrissey responded with typical vitriol, claiming the Cure were 'A new dimension to the word "crap"' Robert Smith then responded with probably the most memorable line of the feud, saying '"If Morrissey says not to eat meat, then I’m going to eat meat; that’s how much I hate Morrissey." This was probably the high point of the feud, most music hacks regard it as an irrelevance now, although Smith and Morrissey continue to lampoon each other in the press, despite the fact that no-one seems to care. Perhaps this is indicative of a genuine feud rather than just a sales-boosting one. SilhouetteSaloon

Relationships

Does anyone know if Morrissey actually entered into any romantic relationships of any merit? There have been some speculations, both of a hetro and homosexual nature, but I was just wondering if there is any evidence to back up any of these claims?


No evidence exists either way. Morrissey is tight-lipped on the subject of his private life, and rightly so, I might add -- what he does is no one's business (this idea goes without saying), and whatever he did say would unquestionably be twisted, dissected, and ultimately corrupted by the media, and, I daresay, interpreted in various opposing ways by much of his longtime, über-devoted fanbase. Weavermoz 02:49, 31 July 2005 (UTC)Reply

Morrissey had a close companion called Jake Walters circa 1993-5. It was widely rumoured the pair were romantically involved, but once again never confirmed or denied (Jake's hands appear on the back of the Vauxhall and I album). Whether true or not, this is the closest to a "public relationship" Morrissey has ever had.

Morrissey was romantically linked to a certain Lee Farrant during the mid 1980s, and they were often seen arm in arm frequenting various south London boutiques.

When we talk about Morrissey having publicly declared his celibacy, what exactly do we mean? That is, are we talking about sex or marriage?

Pistols concert

I don't think Morrissey was at the concert. He may have said he was there, jokingly, as it a known that more people claim to have been there than was actually present. - Kvaks 20:19, 24 September 2005 (UTC)Reply

Why do you think Morrissey was not present...? Certainly the documented evidence is out there (search on http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=morrissey+%22free+trade+hall%22+pistols&hl=en&lr=&start=10&sa=N for numerous references).

Update: The young Morrissey wrote the following letter to the NME, after attending the gig:

18 June 1976 - NME (UK) Review by Steven Morrissey of a Sex Pistols concert: "I pen this epistle after witnessing the infamous Sex Pistols in concert at the Manchester Lesser Free Trade Hall. The bumptious Pistols in jumble sale attire had those few that attended dancing in the aisles despite their discordant music and barely audible lyrics. The Pistols boast having no inspiration from the New York / Manhattan rock scene, yet their set includes, "I'm Not Your Stepping Stone", a number believed to be done almost to perfection by the Heartbreakers on any sleazy New York night and the Pistols' vocalist / exhibitionist Johnny Rotten's attitude and self-asserted 'love us or leave us' approach can be compared to both Iggy Pop and David JoHansen in their heyday. The Sex Pistols are very New York and it's nice to see that the British have produced a band capable of producing atmosphere created by The New York Dolls and their many imitators, even though it may be too late. I'd love to see the Pistols make it. Maybe they will be able to afford some clothes which don't look as though they've been slept in."

source: http://www.passionsjustlikemine.com/moz-mb.htm

This is a fan page (and shouldn't be)

This is not an encyclopedia entry -- it's a page written by some devoted fans who want to portry Morrissey in the best possible light. This is inappropriate, and I think the page needs a significant rewrite; in particular, the "trivia" section should be mostly or completely removed. This is my opinion, but as Bill Hicks said, it happens to be true. R 07:10, 26 September 2005 (UTC)Reply

'Morrissey has told that he enjoys watching boxing'

Quotes such as this from the trivia really do need to be removed, unless the comment can be contextualized into saying something about the man's character.

That said, I'm not sure I'd go quite as far as 'fan page'; what bits do you think are overly sycophantic? Robdurbar 09:40, 26 September 2005 (UTC)Reply

  • I disagree that Morrissey's character needs to be established to the degree that a page of this size seems to attempt. The sheer length of the page gives me pause, and the "Miscellaneous" (formerly "Trivia") section is chock-full of completely irrelevant -- and unattributed -- pablum. "Morrissey is noted for using and liking the Southam Street work of photographer Roger Mayne" has little, if any, importance to an encyclopedic entry on the man. That said, I am impressed with the page's comprehensiveness, but wonder how much of this content is really significant at all. R 16:14, 28 September 2005 (UTC)Reply


Anti Rock Star Image

Strange section this, and not entirely accurate. Morrissey certainly has had brushes with the law (police raiding his house following the Margaret on the Guillotine lyrics), dealing with alcohol and drug abuse (albeit band members habits rather than his own) for example.


I agree, the entire section is highly debatable and confusing. There are plenty of examples of reclusive rock stars and Morrissey's ongoing feuds with the media, other musicians, etc is very rock star-ish. Also, unflamboyant is not a word. Morrissey is often characterized as flamboyant anyway (google: "Morrissey flamboyant" and see for yourself). Basically, this whole section is bogus and should be removed.--MrFluff 04:36, 13 December 2005 (UTC)Reply

Recent changes

An anon ip recently changed "He is 6' (1.83 m) tall." to "His height is between 5'6" and 6'.", and changed "The song Let Me Kiss You from Morrissey's latest album You Are the Quarry is dedicated to her." to "The song Let Me Kiss You was recorded by Nancy with Morrissey and Alain Whyte singing background vocals.". Does anyone know if these changes are valid? Arniep 00:07, 6 November 2005 (UTC)Reply

"The song Let Me Kiss You was recorded by Nancy with Morrissey and Alain Whyte singing background vocals.". That certainly is true, Nancy release the same song on the same day Morrissey did. Englishrose 14:27, 16 January 2006 (UTC)Reply

Opening sentence

The article for "The Smiths" reads '(...)rock group(...)' while this one reads '(...)pop band(...)'. I think it's advisable to mantain the same major music genre between these related articles... after all it's the very same encyclopedia.

Sales

If You Are The Quarry is his most successful album, having sold "more than a million" copies (i.e. about a million plus), how can he have sold 80 million total?

Yeah, anyone have a source for this? - Maximusveritas 15:22, 25 January 2006 (UTC)Reply

I figured for sure it was a typo and changed it to 8 million, then someone just changed it back. There is absolutely no possible way Moz has sold 80 million worldwide, see the note by maximusveritus above.

Animal rights

Is there such a thing as an ethical vegetarian. Ifr so ios he one. SDources only please. I dispute strongly that his latest views have divided the country. That would imply a huge num ber of Brits supported his stance which is clearly false. Please don't insert POPV as fact. The reality is almost everyone thinks he is an extremist whose dangerous POV verges on the criminal, if it isn'tt criminal. Classical example of an uppity pop star who knows how to sing and uses that talent to try and promote political extremism, SqueakBox 16:17, 15 January 2006 (UTC)Reply

Also the justification of his use of the Union flag based on things that happened years later comes across as trying to disprove the fascist roots of Morrissey, and has been removed as such, SqueakBox 16:23, 15 January 2006 (UTC)Reply

You don't like Morrissey, do you? I don't agree with everything you've said here, but I don't have any major problems with the edits you made. I just added an explanation of why Morrissey says he's a vegetarian and a source for some of the criticism he's been getting. - Maximusveritas 17:32, 15 January 2006 (UTC)Reply

I don't like his politics but I used to love The Smiths. But he seems from his actions and words to have become right-wing in the nasty, intolerant motivated by hate sense of the word, and I think about as much of violent animal extremists as I do of Islamic terrorists, ie they make the governemnt batten the hatch down, justifying all sorts of reactionary measures that take away from everyone's freedom because of the actions of a tiny, extremist minority, all very pseudo-radical and unhelpful towards the greater goal of a better, freer world for both humans and animals. I do feel there was some POV pushing in the article as it was, and indeed I haven't actually gone through the whole lot in the editing sense. Your further edits to my edits look great. Anyway I cam to the article reading this article on him, SqueakBox 18:27, 15 January 2006 (UTC)Reply

People that admire Morrissey

Can anybody verify that all these people have publicly admired him? Arniep 03:47, 1 February 2006 (UTC)Reply

Laura Bowen, J. K. Rowling, Bono, David Bowie, Kurt Cobain, Chino Moreno, Daryl Palumbo, Michael Stipe, Jeff Buckley, Noel Gallagher, David Byrne, Joel Madden, Martin L. Gore, Pete Doherty, Harry Hill, Craig Kilborn, Thom Yorke, Chris Martin, Jonathan Ross, Douglas Coupland, Liam Gallagher,Michael Ian Black Jesse Lacey, Ryan Adams, Peter Gabriel, Ricky Gervais, JT LeRoy, Pete Doherty, Jack Black, Davey Havok, Matt Skiba, Brandon Flowers, David Cameron, Colin Meloy, Peter Wentz and Kathy Burke have all publicly stated that they admire Morrissey's work.

Bono, Kathy Burke, J. K. Rowling, Noel Gallagher, Liam Gallagher, Harry Hill all priased Morrissey on the Morrissey documentry, "The Importance of Being Morrissey". of the Documentry

Michael Stipe [1] called Morrissey an "inpiration".

Jonathan Ross said that Morrissey was one of his idols and also made a big fuss about him appearing on his talk show.

Pete Doherty- Morrissey was his hero and when Morrissey criticised him Doherty got very upset. [2]

David Cameron [3]

Brandon Flowers [www.arjanwrites.com/arjanwrites/ 2005/02/the_killers_mys.html] [4] [5].

Kurt Cobain- Mentioned in his biography.

Thom Yorke- Stopped eating meat because of Morrissey. [6]

These are just a few, nearly all of these are common knowledge. I've just picked out the ones that I personally know. Englishrose 09:56, 1 February 2006 (UTC)Reply

  • Note: It shouldn't be a shock because The Smiths were voted the most influential band by The Mirror beating the Beatles. They've influenced a lot of musicions, thus Morrissey is bound to have a large amount of famous public admiration. Englishrose 14:01, 1 February 2006 (UTC)Reply

They have certainly not all said they admire him. Cameron, for instance, says he finds the music strangely uplifting. Everyone in that list must be sourced as saying that they greatly admiring Morrisey or the list cannot remain as it is as what it is is a falsification of the truth apparently planted by Morrisey fans which confuses our readers. As for the claim that this is common knowledge, doesn't look like it as 2 people are challenging this alleged common knowledge that is in fact a fantasy in somebody's head. Thisa is a serious encyclopedia and must be treatred as such, where necessary that means sourcing every word, which in this case has clealry not been done, SqueakBox 14:49, 1 February 2006 (UTC)Reply

Ok then. Common knowledge amongst the majority of Morrissey fans, which it is. Seems though your fussy about the word "admire", I've changed it to "fans of". Englishrose 17:22, 1 February 2006 (UTC)Reply
Cameron said that The Queen is Dead was his favourite album ever and waxed lyrical about the brilliance of it. If that's not admiring his work I don't know what is. Googling each name listed and "morrissey" is likely to bring up a source. These are just the most public of a large list. Sure, demand sources but don't immediately discount things due to the lack of it. Me677 17:14, 1 February 2006 (UTC)Reply
Is it really necessary to make a list of all the people who have publicly stated their admiration of Morrissey? I can't find any other musician or group that has a similar section. It'd be much easier to just leave these out entirely; or, if you think it is necessary put a blanket statement that many entertainers and other notable people appreciate his work, maybe with a few select names dropped in. Spikethehawk 19:34, 1 February 2006 (UTC)Reply

-Source analysis=

Michael Stipe article doesn't contain the word admire, neither does the Doherty article. Indeed none of the 7 links contain the word admire so we stil need a source that for each one of these people admiring him, SqueakBox 14:52, 1 February 2006 (UTC)Reply

I think the point is that the list just looks stupid because it's too long. We should limit it to a few people accompanied by whatever it is they said about him. Arniep 18:36, 1 February 2006 (UTC)Reply
What about a seperate page, "List of notable Morrissey fans"?Englishrose 20:50, 1 February 2006 (UTC)Reply
In that case why not make a separate page for fans of every band/musician to ever come into existence? It's a pointless section and doesn't deserve to be in there. Groups who point to Morrissey as a direct influence on their work is a different story, but does it really matter that Craig Kilborn or JK Rowling are fans of Morrissey's music? Spikethehawk 21:10, 1 February 2006 (UTC)Reply
JK Rowling requested that Smiths/Morrissey references were placed on the set of the Harry Potter films. She get's a lot of inspiration from Morrissey. [7]. Englishrose 23:09, 1 February 2006 (UTC)Reply