User talk:ElectricEye/Archive/Archive0001
|
Welcomer's Barnstar
|
Welcome message
Hi ElectricEye. I'm a little confused. Are you gently telling me I am doing something wrong.I'm not quite sure why I have been sent this tutorial and I will be glad of advice.Sibadd 19:14, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
- I don't see that you've done anything wrong. I just noticed no one ever welcomed you to Wikipedia. :) --ElectricEye 19:16, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
The same VERY late instructing welcome message seriously confused me, too. --Ollj 20:03, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
- Sorry for the confusion. I only noticed you had no welcome so I wanted to welcome you even if late. Sorry for the late welcome. My purpose is not to warn people or stop them from doing anything wrong, but to encourage involvement even if they are vandals. I encourage even vandals to learn and practice where their edits won't be considered vandalism. I leave the warnings and other treatments, such as blocking, up to other members. And again, I'm not saying you are vandalising or anything like that, I just came across your name as someone who didn't have a welcome :) --ElectricEye 20:07, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Yup, also count me as confused by this. I know it wasn't intentional, but I did feel like I'd done something wrong or stepped on someone's toes! I would hope that most people who go to the trouble of signing up (rather than using an anonymous IP to edit) have already skimmed through the guidelines a little. Arg 20:37, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
- I'm beginning to think people are feeling this way because their name is in red, but that's because they haven't edited their user page yet. So if you did anything wrong it might be that you haven't edited your user page yet. :) --ElectricEye 20:40, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
- I think I probably felt it was something I'd done wrong because you added the message just after I'd made a minor change... if I had received your welcome while I wasn't online, I wouldn't have assumed it was my fault. Just a thought! No worries. Arg 20:48, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Green bug?
I'm more concerned about the green hue it leaves on the rest of the discussion page. O_o You probably forgot to add a closing line of code or something. Do you know how to limit the hue to the welcome message? I'm not angry about this or anything, it just bugs me a bit. Other than that, thanks a lot for the welcome, ElectricEye. ^_^ I appreciate your intentions. Fyrius 20:43, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
- Hi Fyrius! :) Thank you for the communications. I am not getting the same phenomenon on my computer so I am unaware of it. It could be I left out a closing tag in the code or something like that. Thank you for pointing this out to me, I'll debug it after I investigate the problem. I know it's a lot to ask, but if you could send a screenshot it would help me to figure out what is happening. Waikiki!!! --ElectricEye 20:50, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Sure, I'll upload a screenshot. On my comp it looks like this: http://img319.imageshack.us/img319/3426/screenshot8tv.jpg But I see you've found out what the problem was already. Whatever you did on my discussion page, it worked. :) Again, thanks for the welcome. Fyrius 20:57, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
- Fyrius, thank you for helping me avoid a problem on many many people's talk pages. (c: --ElectricEye 21:00, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
And thank you for fixing it. Fyrius 21:06, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Welcome template
What template are you using for the welcome messages? Might switch over to it. Tijuana Brass 01:08, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
- I created it. You are free to use it. Waikiki!!! --ElectricEye 01:09, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
- Hmm. Sounds like a thrill. You have a {{template}} that you're using for it? Tijuana Brass 01:18, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
- No template, just copy the code from the top of my page. Do you know how to make templates? I don't, and think it would be a great idea to make it into a template. Waikiki!!! --ElectricEye 01:20, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
- You move fast, I was still working on one when you created yours. I moved it to Template:Welcomeg, the new name is more in line with other welcome templates. Now, when signing a page, type {{subst:welcomeg}} ~~~~ and it'll be all set. Note that I removed your name so all users can use it; signing it with the four tildes will tag it onto the end. Try it out at the Wikipedia:Sandbox! Tijuana Brass 01:33, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
- And no worries about multiple talk page messages. It was fun to watch you move from question, to trying it out, to having it work. Tijuana Brass 01:35, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
- Check the Help Desk for that one. A more experience template programmer should be able to make that work. You seem to have done well by just experimenting, so you may want to try that -- just make sure to do experiments only as previews (or in a sandbox) rather than saving them to a page that will be in use. Tijuana Brass 01:40, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
- Ok. Thanks for all your help, you made my day!!! Waikiki!!! --ElectricEye 01:42, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
- No prob! Glad you're involved. Tijuana Brass 01:44, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Placing welcome templates
When placing welcome templates, would you consider using subst: ? For more information please see Template substitution. Thanks! — xaosflux Talk 03:28, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
- Hi Xaosflux. OK, but let me read Wikipedia:Template substitution first and then get back to you. Waikiki!!! --ElectricEye 03:31, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
- I found it a little confusing because I don't understand everything mentioned. But began to realize someone could vandalize my template and then it appears on ALL NEW USER TALK PAGES. Therefore I will use subst. Originally I was thinking it saved diskspace on Wikipedia to not use subst, but I think preventing BROADSCALED vandalism is more important especially if someone vandalizes my template with pornography. Thanks for the communication. Waikiki!!! --ElectricEye 03:38, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
- Yea, the code makes the usertalk page longer, but the risk redcution is really worth it. The diskspace for text is negligable anyway. — xaosflux Talk 03:40, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
- You are sure working fast, are you running a AWB or a bot? — xaosflux Talk 04:08, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
- Hi again Xaosflux. I can type 200 wpm. Took typing I and II in highschool and that was 24 years ago. --ElectricEye 04:10, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
- You are sure working fast, are you running a AWB or a bot? — xaosflux Talk 04:08, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
- Yea, the code makes the usertalk page longer, but the risk redcution is really worth it. The diskspace for text is negligable anyway. — xaosflux Talk 03:40, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
- I found it a little confusing because I don't understand everything mentioned. But began to realize someone could vandalize my template and then it appears on ALL NEW USER TALK PAGES. Therefore I will use subst. Originally I was thinking it saved diskspace on Wikipedia to not use subst, but I think preventing BROADSCALED vandalism is more important especially if someone vandalizes my template with pornography. Thanks for the communication. Waikiki!!! --ElectricEye 03:38, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Welcome
Thx for your welcome. :Leuk he 12:44, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
- Ditto --The Matrix Prime 05:02, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
- And again. Thanks very much --R Harris 12:41, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
User page warning
I see no reason for your putting a warning on User talk:Fvws talk page since he has not edited very recently. I assume you make have placed the warning on the wrong page and have reverted it. Thanks.--Dakota ~ ° 05:06, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
- Hi Dakota. My message to Fvw was the result of adding welcomes and I noticed Fvw first warned the user instead. My message was a suggestion, not a warning. Also, your talk page is locked so there is now no way to send you a message. --ElectricEye 05:14, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
- My talk page isn't locked to registered users. You can edit it but very new users can't at the present time due to vandalism. Fvw, who is one of the administrators, has been away for quite awhile and he must have had a very good reason for the warning over a year ago. Thank you for good work welcoming users.--Dakota ~ ° 05:42, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Are your eyes actually electric?
Please advise. --NEMT 05:56, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
- Of course. ^_^ Wikiki!!! --ElectricEye 05:58, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
thanks
for sticking up for me, redvers is a twat i agree with you hehe
- I stick up for all new users :) --ElectricEye
Bites
Hi Electric. Ignoring the message above this one (which was only to be expected) - you don't appear to have read all of WP:BITE. Newcomers are most welcome and I have helped out hundreds and mentored several.
However, we would be completely overwhelmed in minutes without someone on New Pages patrol, deleting the 5 or 6 articles per minute that come in that are attacks, vanity pieces, nonsense and cruft.
Most NP patrollers delete the articles and move on. I take time to note to the user that their article has been deleted, give reasons why, provide pages for them to look at showing policy and giving guidance and provide a method of contact so they can speak to me directly.
If that is WP:BITE, then I will stop doing it and just delete the articles without comment like others do. I won't give up on vandalism warnings and NP patrol just because people over-apply WP:BITE.
Thanks. ➨ ❝REDVERS❞ 14:32, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
- Hi Redvers, thanks for the communication. Regarding Mikemort, I did not ignore his message. I gave him a notice[1]. I did not imply at all that you should not delete, revert, etc. --ElectricEye 14:39, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
- Actually I was referring to your warnings[2] to User:B0rk. It is important what you are doing. But I think we should just correct their first offense (revert/etc) while welcoming the person, and then on their second offense give a warning an so on... Please see what I mean at User:ElectricEye/GetWelcomed Anyway, keep up the good work. Waikiki!!! ^_^ --ElectricEye 14:55, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Hi Electric! I've read your theory at User:ElectricEye/GetWelcomed. It's interesting and well put, but I'm afraid I don't agree with it.
At peak hours, vanity, attack and nonsense (VAN) articles added to the 'pedia at the rate of one every 10 seconds or so - sometimes much more. The vast majority of these new articles are from users who have created an account in order to create their VAN article. They will never be seen again, welcomed or not. These users have enough of a grasp of Wikipedia to have created an account, so it's not like they stumbled in and pressed the first button they saw.
Left un"warned", they repost the VAN article and create others. "Warned", they show up on the warner's page and create havoc (that's why the majority go unwarned). If they are welcomed after posting a VAN, that welcome is then often used by the poster as justification for posting the VAN article in the first place: as you've seen today, someone setting out to do something unpleasant will seize on anything that looks like support as a reason to keep on doing what they're doing.
This is counterproductive as it accellerates the user toward being blocked from editing, so they never even get the chance to become a productive editor.
So over-application of WP:BITE has a detrimental effect on the Wikipedia, on the admins clearing up New Pages and on the users posting the VAN articles.
I've tried combining a welcome message with a "warning" and it doesn't work; if the "warning" goes above the welcome message, you get sarcastic comments about how unwelcoming you're being. If the "warning" goes below, the text is missed - the first thing the poster then sees is the second "warning" - which is comparatively harsh in tone.
The other thing to note is the "warnings" themselves. The word "warning" is a useful shorthand, but it doesn't really apply to the first level {{test}} which is a very nice, if short, thank-you message with advice on using the sandbox and visiting the newcomers page. The second "warning" is also not so much of a warning - you're up to test3 before you get a real slap on the wrists. For the vast majority, that level is never reached. Either they have left after seeing their articles vaporized, or they grasp the meaning of the {{test}} template and stop, sometimes settling down into becoming productive editors.
I've found the {{test}} template to be of limited use with VAN posters, which is why I created my own anti-VAN templates. These may not be perfect, but they do tell the user where they stand: what Wikipedia's policies are and even link to a helpful page written in simple language by me offering further advice and explaination. I had tried, in the past, putting a clear link to my talk page in the template - but that led to my March talk archive being full of unsigned abuse and pleas for the article to be restored so mom could see it tomorrow etc. So now, whilst the link is there in my sig, it's not prominent so only the real nutters go looking for it.
And, of course, deleted articles don't show up on a user's contributions page - it may look like they've never posted anything, but the warning you see on a user's page may well be after their 5th or 6th deleted article.
Have you ever done NP or RC patrol? I'd advise spending one evening just monitoring the changes at RC and the additions at NP to see what the "sharp end" can be like. It might change your mind about the WP:BITE guideline being treated like a heavy duty policy :o) ➨ ❝REDVERS❞ 16:46, 8 April 2006 (UTC)