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May 16
Who tends yaks?
I'm editing a wikipedia article about someone described as once being a "yak shepherd". I wasn't aware that yaks were sheep. Is there a more appropriate term? "Yakherd" isn't in the dictionary.... TheMadBaron 09:26, 16th of May 2006 (UTC)
- Perhaps simply "yak herder"? "Yakboy" has a certain charm too, though... Angr (t • c) 09:34, 16th of May 2006 (UTC)
- "yak farmer" seems to exist as well. "Yakowboy" would work, at least if they were hearding "Yakows", (see Dzo). --BluePlatypus 18:04, 16th of May 2006 (UTC)
- Don't search for "yakheard" in the dictionary. It would be "herd of yaks". freshgavinΓΛĿЌ 06:19, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
Yakov Smirnoff ? :-) StuRat 15:40, 17th of May 2006 (UTC)
ooooooooooooooh Stu, that one was a groaner. NOW you're pushing it! Loomis51 00:30, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
- I was going to suggest yakker myself. I think yakherd is pretty obvious, as far as ordinary English constructions go (shepherd, cowherd, swineherd and so on)Skookum1 00:42, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
a phrase
please what is "all your writting needs" in latin. thank you so much.--196.201.156.90 15:06, 16 May 2006 (UTC)Anel--196.201.156.90 15:06, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
- That's a rather ambiguous and elliptical piece of English-language-specific advertising sloganese which isn't a sentence. A translation which makes sense in Latin won't be a literal translation. AnonMoos 16:12, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
Symbols for spacial relationships
Are there any basic spacial symbols that mean "in between" or "touching, on" or "motion towards" (or others) used in any typographical convention, preferably ones you can find in ASCII or on a basic American keyboard? I'm developing my own personal notation system for sign languages. For example, right now, I'm using:
L palm-in th/f1=chin, tap2
L handshape, palm orientation inward, then make the area between the thumb and index finger touch your chin and tap twice
(the sign for "lesbian" in ASL)
But maybe there are already established ways for showing in between instead of using my / or for contact instead of using my =
--Sonjaaa 16:18, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
- Are you aware of SignWriting? There's no Unicode support for it yet (and it would be difficult to implement because of the way the signs are put together), but it does use the asterisk * to indicate touching. Angr (t • c) 18:15, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I am, but I'm not sure if I like it or why it's even becoming popular. It's not as user-friendly as it could have been.--Sonjaaa 21:55, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
- That may be, but it's probably becoming popular because it's the best (only?) available option. English spelling isn't as user-friendly as it could have been, either, but we still muddle through all right! Angr (t • c) 22:07, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
Philippine name
The surname Bustamante is quite common in the Philippines. What does it mean? Is it from the Latin? 66.213.33.2 17:28, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
- It's a Spanish name. (Bustamente is also a variant) In this case I think it's from the late Latin "bustum" meaning "pasture". (It is used as such in several Fueros). "Bustum" can also means "tomb" (in both cases from the past participle of "burere" = "to burn"). It was that meaning which appears to have morphed into the English "bust". --BluePlatypus 17:56, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
hausa
what is the hausa metaphor of the murfu?
- The Hausa are a West African people (who speak, unsurprisingly, the Hausa language). Google tells me that a Murfu is a rudimentary stove based on a cut-apart oil barrel. Anything can be considered a metaphor for almost anything else, so with no context, that's the best I can do. --ByeByeBaby 00:33, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
May 17
May 18
Internship
Can a Canadian person please tell me how he or she prnounces the word "internship"? Do most Canadians place the accent like "in'-tern-ship" or do you place the accent "in-tern'-ship"? J. Finkelstein 01:36, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
- The first way. (Assuming I'm reading the two variants as you intended) Loomis51 02:44, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
- I think I've heard it both ways, but I personally stress the first syllable. INternship, not in-TURN-ship. (FYI: I'm from Calgary.) --ByeByeBaby 06:31, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
- Toronto and Vancouver are also INturnship. 61.25.248.86 06:40, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
- I think I've heard it both ways, but I personally stress the first syllable. INternship, not in-TURN-ship. (FYI: I'm from Calgary.) --ByeByeBaby 06:31, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
Now that we seem to have a consensus amongst us Canadians, who pronounces it the other way? From what I understand, Americans pronounce it the same. But Brits...I don't know...Loomis51 23:31, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- As a Briton, I pronounce it INternship and have never heard the emphasis anywhere else. Skittle 14:42, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Actually, come to think of it, (and this is both an interesting and odd discovery I just had,) the word "intern" can mean two completely different things, depending on how it's pronounced. One definition would be "an arrangement where a person new to a particular field gets on the job experience through a cooperative arrangement with the employer" and the other would be "the forced confinement of an individual by the state (usually by a totalitarian state, or at least in a totalitarian fashion, without due process of the law, due to one's political beliefs, ethnicity etc...)". In other words, "whereas I may get a job as an "INtern" at a Soviet television station, due to my dissident beliefs, the authorities may "inTERN" me in a special inTERNment camp." Loomis51 20:05, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Meaning of a phrase
Can some one please help me with the meaning of the phrase "Rust never sleeps".
- Was the phrase used before Neil Young used it as an album title? I suspect not, in which case you're into the realm of interpretation. The literal meaning is that there is no way of stopping something from rusting once it's begun. I guess Young might have meant that the same applies to life - that things are inexorable. Or something. --Richardrj 10:38, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
- That's not the literal meaning- it's a metaphorical meaning. The literal meaning is that rust never sleeps. HenryFlower 12:12, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
- Depends on your definition of sleep. Are you saying that 'sleep' in this case is a metaphor for 'stop'? If so, I have to disagree. 'Sleep' and 'stop' can be synonyms. --Richardrj 12:16, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
- If you use 'sleep' to mean 'stop', then you are using a metaphor. Sleep is the regular state of natural rest observed in all mammals, birds and fish. Any other use of the word is a metaphor. HenryFlower 15:29, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
- Hmmm - according to Rust Never Sleeps, the title was borrowed from an advertising slogan for an anti-rust paint. The above interpretation might still work, however. --Richardrj 10:42, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
- Depends on your definition of sleep. Are you saying that 'sleep' in this case is a metaphor for 'stop'? If so, I have to disagree. 'Sleep' and 'stop' can be synonyms. --Richardrj 12:16, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
Words
Can anyone please tell me what is the word that describes a word that begins and ends with the same letter,eg Norman.
Thank You
Norman Martin
- I'm pretty sure there's no word for this. A palindrome is a word or phrase that reads the same forwards and backwards, like deified, but Norman is not a palindrome. —Keenan Pepper 15:36, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
- There must be a name for such thing in verses (poetry). If one verse is made of only one word, you have your denomination. --DLL 20:52, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
Learning a language
How can I learn this language —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.55.89.8 (talk • contribs) .
- What language? —Keenan Pepper 15:10, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
what is the meaning of abigna?
- What language? --Shantavira 18:42, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
Does French have retroflex consonants?
Does French have retroflex consonants? —Masatran 16:34, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
- No. Check out French phonology, which has an IPA chart. -user:rasd
- And what about the other Romance languages? —Masatran 16:14, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- I've heard that Sardinian has retroflex consonants. And Romansh is described has having the phonemic opposition /tʃ/~/tɕ/, which under some theories is always actually /ʈʂ/~/tɕ/ (as in Mandarin and Polish), though I don't know if the claim has ever been made specifically for Romansh. Angr (t • c) 17:20, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- And what about the other Romance languages? —Masatran 16:14, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
meaning of Abigna
could anyone knows the meaning of Abigna?
thank you, Guru
- In what language? It is not an English word. --Shantavira 18:44, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
- A quick google seems to indicate that it's a place name; a town in Guinea-Bissau. It's also a term in Redneck English, meaning roughly "of sufficient size". For example: "Hey, Bubba! Why'd y'all get stuck in tha mud holler?" "Well, Billy-Bob, it's 'cause I ain't bought abigna truck. Y'all gimme a tow?" --ByeByeBaby 04:36, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Contraction of "a big enough".
"Trenchtown Rock" lyrics
Okay, according to various lyrics websites, these are the lyrics to "Trenchtown Rock" by Bob Marley and the Wailers: [1]; [2]. So, can anyone tell me what "No want you fe galang so" means? What about "You want come cold I up"? Thanks, — BrianSmithson 18:37, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
- According to this site, the lyric "No want you fe galang so / You want come cold I up" is in Jamaican patois and means, approximately, "I don't want you to act like that / You're trying to keep me down". The same meaning as about 50% of the rest of Bob Marley's lyrics, now that I think about it. I hope you like jammin' too, --ByeByeBaby 04:31, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks. And I hope this jam is gonna last. — BrianSmithson 12:10, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Diaphragm etymology
I have a question about the history of the word diaphragm. I recently expanded the diaphragm page (a disambiguation page) to include many other uses of the word diaphragm. That got me interested in the history of the changing use of that word, and wondering which uses came first, and how each use relates to the other. It is fairly easy to look up the etymology of the original diaphragm word, but how could I get the dates of first use of all the other terms, and find oout how they are related to each other? Carcharoth 20:02, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
- The OED is usually quite good about giving date of first appearance of each different meaning of a word. Angr (t • c) 21:27, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
- I really must get a subscription... The cheapest option seems to be £7.50 for a week. Either that or go to a library. Is anyone with access able to at least say whether their coverage of diaphragm is what I'm looking for? Carcharoth 21:58, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
- I think so. The meaning of "muscle in the abdomen" dates back to 1398, the meaning "anything resembling the diaphragm in form or funtion" back to 1660, the meaning "contraceptive cap" back to 1933, the meaning "septum or partition in shells or plants" back to 1665, the meaning "thin lamina or plate serving as a partition" back to 1665, the meaning "porous cup of a voltaic cell" back to 1870, the meaning "membrane stretched in or on a frame, esp. a vibrating membrane in an acoustic instrument like a telephone" back to 1853, the meaning "assemblage of lines of reference in a telescope" back to 1829. Angr (t • c) 22:14, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
- Wow! Thanks. That telescope reference, which I thought was a new meaning, seems to be the origin of diaphragm (optics). Now, about the dates you've provided, is it OK to put that in Wikipedia somewhere? Do I reference the OED? It might look something like this:
- I think so. The meaning of "muscle in the abdomen" dates back to 1398, the meaning "anything resembling the diaphragm in form or funtion" back to 1660, the meaning "contraceptive cap" back to 1933, the meaning "septum or partition in shells or plants" back to 1665, the meaning "thin lamina or plate serving as a partition" back to 1665, the meaning "porous cup of a voltaic cell" back to 1870, the meaning "membrane stretched in or on a frame, esp. a vibrating membrane in an acoustic instrument like a telephone" back to 1853, the meaning "assemblage of lines of reference in a telescope" back to 1829. Angr (t • c) 22:14, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
- I really must get a subscription... The cheapest option seems to be £7.50 for a week. Either that or go to a library. Is anyone with access able to at least say whether their coverage of diaphragm is what I'm looking for? Carcharoth 21:58, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
- diaphragm (anatomy) (1398)
- resembling a diaphragm (1660)
- septum or partition in shells or plants (1665)
- thin lamina or plate serving as a partition (1665)
- diaphragm (optics) (1829)
- diaphragm (acoustics) (1853)
- porous cup of a voltaic cell (1870)
- diaphragm (contraceptive) (1933)
The ones that aren't dated (not shown) seem to be all the modern engineering uses of the term diaphragm. Presumably the OED hasn't got round to those yet. Carcharoth 22:51, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
- Another note: over on the Science Reference Desk, I was also asking about diaphragm, but in relation to septum and septa (biology). That last one seems particularly relevant to the OED quote above concerning "septum or partition in shells or plants". Is there any way to confirm whether septa (biology) is indeed the same as this diaphragm meaning "septum in shells or plants"? Carcharoth 01:54, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- Basically, they're all about the same: a membrane supported around its edges. The only good question for this page is how or whether to use such detailed citations from the OED, which is not public ___domain. Let's take the specific word etymology discussion back to the specific talk page. And yes, septa is plural for septum; who knows why the septa article uses the plural title??? Dicklyon 06:06, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
In ancient Greek, the word diaphragma (pronounced diap-hrang-ma with aspirated "p") meant "partition wall" or "membrane which divides the lung from the stomach" (Reference: lesser Liddell and Scott). 05:58, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- I can't find my Liddell, because I was going to parse the word properly = dia+phragma; I'm very surprised to see p-h/aspirated 'p' in the previous comment; I would have expected -phragma to be written with a phi (f); on the other hand come to think of it the addition of the dia- prefix would aspirate an initial p- on the root....pragma coming from praxis, action; so the etymology is "between/within/through action" (i.e. life?...and I've probably mussed up possible meanings of "dia" ); or whatever other meaning pragma can derive from praxis. Or not?Skookum1 07:42, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- I wasn't parsing the word morphologically, but giving a rough pronunciation guide. Aspirated "p" was always written with the letter phi in ancient Greek (except that some would say that the stop sound in the "ps" combination written by the letter psi was also aspirated). AnonMoos 18:37, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- I don't have my Liddell and Scott to hand, but I can say with some certainty that dia- does NOT aspirate a following stop, so this word cannot contain the root prag-. Its root must be something like phrag-, phrak-, or phrakh-. Perhaps something related to break/Lat. frangō? Angr (t • c) 08:17, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- The root is phrag- and the 1st. person singular active present indicative verb form is phrassô "to fence". AnonMoos 19:28, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- Phragmite is a kind of cane. Is there a link with "layer", "foil", which was the papyrus use ? --DLL 19:17, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- Phragma (in ancient Greek pronounced p-hrangma) meant "a fence" (or more abstractly, a protective measure). AnonMoos 19:28, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- So the anatomical sense would be "fence between (the abdominal and thoracic cavities)"? Sound right.Skookum1 21:29, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
May 19
Lunchbox in Portuguese
Hello, I'm looking for the original of the Thai word ปิ่นโต /pin.to/ (lunch box). I've learned before that the original word came from the Portuguese word. However I could not find the reference for that. The only word that I found is "pinto" meaning chicken.
Thank you for any question. I searched on the Internet and found one lunchbox that similar to Thai lunchbox [3], but it's written in English not the Portuguese --Manop - TH 03:52, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- Are you sure it's not from the Japanese bento? HenryFlower 09:44, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Very likely from the Japanese (the Thai ป isn't really a p, but sort of half way between p and b).
That said....
The Portuguese past participle bento, related to the Portuguese verb bendizer (to bless), stems from the Latin benedire, "to bless" (literally "to say well").... as in benedictus.
The Japanese word bento (弁当, べんとう) is said to have originated from a 16th Century military commander called Odo Nobunaga [4]. Odo Nobunaga had close links to the Jesuits [5], so it's possible that he borrowed the word from a Portuguese blessing.
If that's the case, then the Thai tiffin carrier might have same root as the name of the Pope. TheMadBaron 11:02, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- Thank you all. --Manop - TH 16:30, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Bento is also a very common Portuguese name (forename, surname and placename, and the name of at least one ship, São Bento (named after Saint Benedict, lost in 1554 [6]). Interestingly, Bento Fernandes, one of the "great missionary personalities of the time," was a contemporary of Odo Nobunaga, and active in Japan [7].... so maybe it was his lunchbox.... TheMadBaron 20:48, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- I don't have my kanji dictionary at hand but I'm quite sure the kanji for bentō are ateji (as opposed to it being a Sino-Japanese compound, or a fully Japanese word), which is an instant indicator of an old Japanese word not of Japanese origin. Since Portuguese words are abundant in Japanese (second only to English), it's a pretty safe bet that that's where it came from. freshgavinΓΛĿЌ 16:08, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
It's entirely possible, I suppose, that "bento" might have been a Portuguese term for a food carrier at the time, even if no longer used in modern Portuguese. If that's the case, the Thai word is perhaps as likely to have been borrowed directly from Portuguese traders, without Japanese influence. Either way, assuming that Freshgavin is correct, all signs indicate a Portuguese origin. TheMadBaron 21:09, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
- According to a Japanese etymology site, the term bento has been used sinse Kamakura period[8], which predates Japanese contact of Portuguese. It says the term is derived from Chinese 便当, meaning convininent. Another theory is it may be derived from 面桶, meaning 'a bucket for a meal' but the site rejects this theory because pronunciations of 面桶 and 弁当 differs in classical Japanese. --Kusunose 03:23, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- That's a very nice site. I'll look at that one again. freshgavinΓΛĿЌ 17:14, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Wiki language codes for "Chinese simplified" and "Chinese traditional"?
I am creating a wiki using some of the content of http://www.dmoz.org.
I would like to know what interwiki language codes to use for the content of:
I am getting the codes from http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias.
For example, the interwiki language code is "fr" for:
I imagine one of them will use "zh"
Which ones do I need for Chinese Simplified and which for Chinese Traditional:
- zh
- zh-yue
- zh-min-nan
- something else?
Thanks!
Brusselsshrek 09:35, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- I don't think we have separate traditional and simplified Wikipedias: they're both the same language, so they're both covered by zh. I suspect that zh uses unicode characters which you can view in either traditional or simplified fonts. Yue and Minnan are for the Yue (Cantonese) and Minnan dialects/languages respectively, and are definitely not what you want. HenryFlower 09:42, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
OK, thanks. Hmmm. Let me ask a follow-up question then. If I map BOTH dmoz Simplified AND Traditional pages to wiki "zh" pages can you see a problem with overlapping? i.e. will pages, as far as you can see, end up with the same wiki name? I don't know enough about the two systems to know if the URL strings would be distinct. Let me give an example: If I start with the English page (phew!) http://www.dmoz.org/Science/ I can see that it has a link to language versions in both Chinese (Traditional) AND Chinese Simplified. These pages are:
- http://www.dmoz.org/World/Chinese_Simplified/%e7%a7%91%e5%ad%a6/
- http://www.dmoz.org/World/Chinese_Traditional/%e7%a7%91%e5%ad%b8/
Since the suffix of these two is different, I could render these two pages in a wiki as (I suppose):
- zh.mywiki.com/%e7%a7%91%e5%ad%a6/
- zh.mywiki.com/%e7%a7%91%e5%ad%b8/
BUT, is it 100% safe to assume that they will ALWAYS be different in the suffix of the URL? Thanks again! Brusselsshrek 09:59, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- No, I don't think they will be different. Compare this one and this one: these use the same characters in simplified and traditional forms, so the suffix is the same. I think you would need to either merge them, or add something to the suffix to distinguish them. HenryFlower 10:09, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Hmmm, thanks, this is all very helpful to a non-Chinese speaker with the task of sorting this out. Since wiki seems to think a single "zh" suffices, is this Simplified/Traditional Chinese rather like the American/British English thing that a wiki page could be written in either as long as a whole page is consistent? (Sure, I understand traditional chars a lot more complex). My thought would be just to take ONLY the Dmoz Simplified pages into the wiki. In your view, would that lose a lot of valuable Dmoz info, or is the Simplified/Traditional content basically just a duplication but in a "different" language? Brusselsshrek 10:27, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- As I understand it, a page can be written in simplified encoding, traditional encoding, or unicode. The simplified dmoz will list simplified and unicode pages, while the traditional dmoz will list traditional and unicode pages, so there will be some duplication. I don't know how popular unicode is versus the specialised encodings, so I don't know how much duplication there would be. Using simplified only is probably the best easy solution, although you'll certainly end up with content which has a lot from the PRC and not much from Taiwan. HenryFlower 10:53, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- Simple and traditional refers primarily to the writing system, only secondarily to the encoding. I suspect that the simplified dmoz will try to list only Unicode pages written in Simplified Chinese. It's not merely American/British, where it's 99% mutually intelligible; it take more education, but I don't know if most Chinese get that education.--Prosfilaes 16:35, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Slovensko and Slovensky wiki language codes?
I am creating a wiki using some of the content of http://www.dmoz.org. I'm making good progress with finding each of the wiki language codes to use, but I would like to know what interwiki language codes to use for the content of:
I am getting the codes from http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias.
For example, the interwiki language code is "fr" for:
My Slovensko and Slovensky is even worse than my Chinese (which itself is limited to "Special Fried Rice").
Thanks! Brusselsshrek 11:00, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- Slovensko is Slovenian, Slovensky is Slovak. Slovenian is sl, Slovak is sk. :) HenryFlower 11:09, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- Wikis here use country codes (see ISO 3166-1) as language codes. There must be inventions sometimes (aulde english, pidgin ...) --DLL 19:12, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
That is strange, because "Slovensko" is also the native name for Slovakia. You can see how George Bush confused these countries. -- Mwalcoff 00:00, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
- Actually I rather suspect that the etymological similarity had nothing at all to do with why he confused these countries. Plain ignorance, more like. Arbitrary username 17:59, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
- How's that strange? The countries have the same name, etymologically. --BluePlatypus 08:40, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Taiwanese wiki language code?
Thanks User:Henry_Flower, you're great at this! (How come you know all this stuff?)
Finally, what is the wiki language code (see above questions) for Taiwanese:
- Ah, that's an easy one. Taiwanese is Minnan, so zh-min-nan. HenryFlower 12:12, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
"ye high"
Where does the expression "ye high" come from? Old English?
I've been looking for a good definition, but there's just none to find (somebody add it to wiktionary, please).
Usage (I think): "He's about ye high (holds up hand to indicate the height of a person)" -Obli (Talk)? 19:39, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- I would have spelled it "yea" or "yay"; here is one page with some information seeming to indicate that it's a fairly recently coined slang term or idiom. --LarryMac 19:53, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- According to Google searches, "yea" is only slightly more popular than "ye", I guess that's what happens to new words that are only used in speech. Thanks for the emytology, I'll add it to wiktionary, myself. -Obli (Talk)? 20:01, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- Actually, it's substantially more popular; searches for just "ye high" or "yea high" or "yay high" by themselves are loaded with false results. Googling for "about [yea/yay/ye] [high/big/tall]" shows that yay is more popular than yea, which tends to be about four times as popular as ye. —Zero Gravitas 20:20, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- In older English there's "ye" as in "all ye", meaning "you". Then there's "ye" for the definite article "the", where the "y" is actually a thorn (þ), and which is pronounced just as "the". Then there's "yea" as in "yes". But that's it, AFAIK. --BluePlatypus 08:34, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
- I've heard it used a lot in the Irish Republic - so probably dialectal as well as archaic. Greatgavini 17:25, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
- A nuance I don't see mentioned in any link so far is that it tends to indicate a bit of estimation is going on. I don't know where it came from, but for what it's worth, I first heard it from my big brother, and the only other time I came across it was in a comic strip, which argues well for the 'recent slang' interpretation. Black Carrot 19:28, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
- It was certainly around in Britain when I was young. Which was some time in the 80s. HenryFlower 19:36, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
- The OED uses the spelling "yay", and the first quotation they have is from 1960. Lesgles (talk) 20:16, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
speech synthesiser
Does anyone know of a speech synthesis program (preferably free or maybe commercial, and for either Windows or Linux) which lets you input the required sounds phonetically in IPA or maybe say SAMPA / X-SAMPA rather than as orthography? It seems that most packages do "text to speech", but it would be nice to have a bit more control. Thanks. Arbitrary username 21:13, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- I doubt it; IPA phonetic notation doesn't convey enough information for a speech synthesiser to do its work. MBROLA uses a .pho format, which is SAMPA with numbers for length, tone, pitch, volume etc. -- EdC 16:35, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
- Many thanks for the tip. That makes sense; I don't mind providing more specific information. I'll have a look into MBROLA. Arbitrary username 17:50, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
- There's this from Microsoft. I haven't read about it, though. Ardric47 02:01, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- Many thanks, though I fear that that one may be a few too many steps removed from the end-user for me to cope with. Arbitrary username 17:52, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- There's this from Microsoft. I haven't read about it, though. Ardric47 02:01, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- Many thanks for the tip. That makes sense; I don't mind providing more specific information. I'll have a look into MBROLA. Arbitrary username 17:50, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
So far to date
Is it corret to say "So far to date" or should one stick to just either "so far", or "to date"?159.134.255.9 00:04, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, it does appear redundant. However the two phrases have different nuances. It would be best if I heard the entire sentence to choose which of the two sounds better. Loomis51 00:25, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
- I could imagine someone saying "Our company found the sources of 12 items so far to date." I wouldn't use the "so far" and I really don't like the sound of that sentence but it does get across the additional meaning that they expect to continue to find more sources in the future. freshgavinΓΛĿЌ 16:00, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
- It still sounds redundant. Only one should be used. Perhaps this is oversimplifying, but "so far" seems to me a more "casual", while "to date" seems to be a more "technical" expression. In many cases both would be acceptable, but I'll give a few examples of where one is clearly more appropriate than the other:
- If you're waiting for a friend to call, and she hasn't yet, you'd definitely say "She hasn't called so far" and NEVER "She hasn't called to date" (with a few exceptions, for example if she's gone missing for many years, it might sound appropriate to say "she hasn't called to date.")
- For more scientific statements, "to date" is more acceptable, but "so far" seems acceptable as well. For example: "To date, we have no hard evidence of extra-terrestrial life." But, as I said, so far can be used as well, but with a less "professional", "scientific" sound. "So far, we have no hard evidence of extra-terrestrial life."
- Bottom line, when in doubt, use "so far" and you probably won't go wrong. Loomis51 23:26, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- Another variant I like is "up until now". JackofOz 02:33, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
May 20
Hung for a sheep as a lamb
While reading Sex Drugs and Economics, written by a British author, I came across the above phrase and I thought it was lovely but it was a novel expression to my American eyes. A few hours later I was listening to Neil Gaiman read on of his stories where an American tourist used the phrase and I realized it was nothing an American would have used as far as I know.
I would love to know how, where and when this phrase originated or at least a site that will not give me the run around while I'm trying to search for it.
Thanks so much for any assistance. - Kubzz 07:10, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
- The first result on Google UK: [9]
- The Oxford English Dictionary has a quotation from Richardson, "Clarissa" (1748): "In for the lamb, as the saying is, in for the sheep." The saying must be older; I don't know by how much.
- 'I might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb.' If the consequence of failure is the same in either case, then go for the option that yields the greatest reward if the venture succeeds.
- Suggested origin:
- Until at least 1800 in England, the penalty for stealing sheep, irrespective of the animal's age or gender, was execution or deportation. Since there is more meat and wool on a fully-grown sheep, why bother putting the same effort into stealing a lamb if the consequence of being caught for either crime was the gallows?
- Someone might see their way to adding this to Wiktionary. -- EdC 16:43, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
- I don't think there is anything exclusively British about this phrase. Perhaps it has passed out of use in the USA, but it is generally understood in the UK today. A little search shows that US author Horatio Alger used the phrase in this book. Notinasnaid 18:40, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
- It is also generally understood in Australia. Not surprising, since we've had more than a bit to do with both penal transportation and sheep. JackofOz 22:51, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Thank so much for the quick responses. :) - Kubzz 07:32, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- According to the Everyman Dictionary of Quotations and Proverbs it was listed in John Ray's Collection of English Proverbs (1670). MeltBanana 14:59, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- I,ve always understood it to mean that, having already stolen a little lamb, you might as well go on to steal a big sheep as well, because the punishment is going to be the same - ie having committed one offence you might as well carry on and commit others. Jameswilson 00:45, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Same pronunciation
This line from Canadian raising puzzles me: "So, whereas the General American pronunciations of "rider" and "writer" are identical [ɹaɪɾɚ], those whose dialects include either the full or restricted Canadian raising will pronounce them as [ɹaɪɾɚ] and [ɹəɪɾɚ], respectively."
One of those words has a d in the middle, the other a t. I don't pronounce them the same and I grew up not far from the "classic" General American" region. Is this really correct or are only the vowels the same in both words. Rmhermen 22:43, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
- It looks like my cut-and-paste of those useless IPA characters didn't work. We need sound more samples! Rmhermen 22:45, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
- They're useful to me... I pronounce them exactly as shown in normal speech. —Keenan Pepper 00:48, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- I added in Template:IPA, so they should show up now. Ardric47 02:04, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- I think it was also noting "the North American English process of flapping, which merges /t/ and /d/ in [ɾ] before unstressed vowels", but I see someone has now changed "writer" into "spider" and the reference to sounding identical to a reference to rhyming. To a Briton, the "Classic" American accent involves pronouncing 't' as 'd' in many places, and I think this is the accent it is refering to. ie "Warder" instead of "water". Skittle 13:49, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- As a Canadian, although I might pronounce the "d" and the "t" differently, by far, the more noticeable difference would be in my pronunciation of the "i". The "ri" in "rider" whould be pronounced like the grain "rye", whereas the word "writer" would rhyme with "fighter". Is it actually any different in American English? Loomis51 23:10, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- So, you're saying the article is right? But now I'm really intrigued because I pronounce the vowel in 'rye' the same as the vowel at the beginning 'fighter'. What's the difference to you? Skittle 23:17, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- Another Canadian here. I pronounce them like the first example. Can't input IPA here so "rai" and "fuy". The article is right (ruyt), and I remember hearing about this (along with cot, caught, and all that) on a TV show about the Canadian accent a couple years ago. freshgavinΓΛĿЌ 17:05, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- Oh, and about the t and d. Both are flapped for me and would probably be written identically in IPA, but because the dipthong of "rider" is a little bit longer than "writer", the flapped "d" from "rider" is a little bit stronger than the flapped "t". freshgavinΓΛĿЌ 17:08, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- In North American English, the vowel in rider is often longer than that in writer. That is the only difference. I'm no expert on Canadian raising, but as I understand it, the rule is that before voiceless stops, the diphthong nucleus of (ay) and (aw) begins higher at [ʌ] (in the article, it says [ə], but never mind) and in other contexts remains lower at, e.g., [a]. This is the same phenomenon that leads to the stereotyped pronunciation of about. The case of writer shifting but not rider would, to my mind, suggest that the mechanism in question is not really the following consonant directly, but diphthong length. mnewmanqc
May 21
Help needed
Following are lyrics (Persian) of Shakila's song Yegaaneh, which I completely love. It would be *awesome* if someone can translate it for me. Thanks a ton!
تا کی به تمنای وصال تو یگانه
اشکم شود از هر مژه چون سیل روانه
ای تیره غمت را دل عشاق نشانه
خواهد به سرآیدشب هجران تو یا نه
جمعی به تو مشغول و تو فارغ ز میانه
هر در که زنم صاحب آن خانه تویی تو
هر جا که شدم پرتو کاشانه تویی تو
در کعبه و در دیر چو جانانه تویی تو
منظور من از کعبه و بتخانه تویی تو مقصود تویی ...کعبه و بتخانه بهانه
ای تیره غمت را دل عشاق نشانه
بلبل به چمن زار گل رخسار نشان دید
پروانه در آتش شد و اسرار نهان دید
عارف صفت حمد تو از پیر و جوان دید
یعنی همه جا عکس رخ یار توان دید
دیوانه منم ..من که روم خانه به خانه
ای تیره غمت را دل عشاق نشانه
جمعی به تو مشغول و تو فارغ ز میانه
عاقل به قوانین خرد راه تو جوید
دیوانه برون از همه آئین تو پوید
تا غنچهء نشکفتهء این باغ که بوید
هر کس به زبانی صفت حمد تو گوید
بلبل به غزل خوانی و قمری به ترانه
رفتم به در صومعه زاهد و عابد
دیدم همه را پیش رخت راکع و ساجد
در بتکده رهبانم و در صومعه زاهد
گه معتکف دیرم و گه ساکن مسجد
یعنی که تو را می طلبم خانه به خانه
ای تیره غمت را دل عشاق نشانه
بلبل به چمن زان گل رخسار نشان دید
پروانه در آتش شد و اسرار نهان دید
عارف صفت حمد تو از پیر و جوان دید
یعنی همه جا عکس رخ یار توان دید
دیوانه منم ..من که روم خانه به خانه
ای تیره غمت را دل عشاق نشانه
جمعی به تو مشغول و تو فارغ ز میانه
deeptrivia (talk) 00:35, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- In case no one answers here, you could try browsing Category:User fa-N for a friendly face. The only person listed at Wikipeida:Translators available for Persian-to-English is User:Nima.nezafati, but s/he hasn't been here since March. Angr (t • c) 10:05, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- If the stupid mullahs hadn't seized power in Iran, the maybe an Ataturk would Romanize the Persian script which would make it easier for people to learn Persian and look up words in a Persian-English dictionary.Patchouli 01:20, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- ROTFL! As I've said on this page before, Romanization will be a stupid idea, because the Roman script is one of the dumbest, and doesn't make any sense at all. In fact the whole world should switch to a real phonetic Brahmi-based script. [^_^] Oh no! I'm talking about it again! deeptrivia (talk) 03:49, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Right word
What word refers to the process by which a company expands too fast and therefore loses its focus? For example, Yahoo! was created as a collection of favourite pages, and now they offer everything under the sun, and seem to have lost their focus. Google used to offer only search, but now they offer social networking and other services that have nothing to do with search. These services usually do not reflect the usual Google quality and corporate culture/values.
Another example could be an company initially offering high-quality online communication services, which clearly reflect their corporate culture and values; but then expanding into online games, then software, then telecommunications, etc. and their products in these new markets do not reflect the quality of their online communication services or their corporate culture/values.
This process does not occur if a company expands quickly, but still retains their focus, quality and corporate culture/values. --J.L.W.S. The Special One 00:40, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- Conglomeration, maybe... AnonMoos 16:03, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- It can be a precursor to the company "reinventing itself". Although that would come later, after they realised they'd lost their focus. JackofOz 02:32, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
How is "re" pronounced?
How does one pronounce "re," the short form of "regarding," as in To: John Doe From:Jane Smith Re: The pronunciation of the word at the beginning of this line!
Since it is a short form of "regarding" it seems "re" should rhyme with "tree."
I have had a boss who is sure it's pronounced as if it were spelled "ray," as in the musical notes "do, re me...," or as if it were Latin such as in the phrase "in re your estate," for example.
I don't like mispronouncing words and would love a definative answer!
Thank you.
- AFAIK, it's not a short form of "regarding", it is Latin, the same word as in "in re your estate". Nevertheless, the word can be pronounced either way ("ray" or "ree"), because Latin words used in English often get anglicized pronunciations (such as pronouncing c like /s/ in et cetera, or pronouncing the first syllable of habeas corpus "hay"). Angr (t • c) 10:03, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- See IETF (RFC 3834) : "Just as the (Latin-derived) prefix "Re:" that is commonly used to indicate human-generated responses ..." --DLL 17:57, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- I've always heard it as "ray". Although I think the only place I've heard it is the Jeeves and Wooster TV series, "in re" being one of Wooster's typical phrases together with "right ho!". (I seriously recommend Wodehouse to anyone who loves the English language, BTW) --BluePlatypus 22:39, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Punjabi
What is the difference between Pakistani Punjabi language and Indian Punjabi language?
- See Punjabi language. There are many dialects of Punjabi, but these don't correspond to the India/Pakistan border. HenryFlower 14:48, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Rules for syllable counting (in English)
What are the rules for counting syllables in English? Does a syllable necessarily contain a vowel (phoneme)?
In the examples below, how many syllables do you count?
- roster
- glide
- slack
- mirage
Based on some simple (simplistic?) rules I've seen, I got 2, 1, 1, and 2 respectively. The thing that I'm not sure about is in words like "slack", whether the whole word is one syllable or whether the "s" is in a separate syllable by itself. --68.238.243.228 16:08, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- You do not need a vowel in an unstressed syllable in English. Any sonorant consonant will do, but there is a tendency to favor nasals as syllable nuclei over liquids. So, for instance Kevin and possum are more likely to be pronounced with a syllabic consonant than Michael or butter. All these words will have vowels pronounced in careful pronunciations.
- As for your examples, you are correct except that in mirage the vowel can be deleated in rapid casual speech, and in that case there would be one syllable: [mɹɑʒ] in my pronunciation. As for the case of slack, the pronunciation of an empenthetic vowel before the s is a feature of Spanish influenced learner English. mnewmanqc
- (Hope you don't mind, I used {{template:IPA}} on your IPA). I think it's an interesting thing, this syllable counting. For example, even if I try to pronounce 'mirage' quickly and casually as Mnewmanqc's IPA indicates, I end up with what I would count as two syllables. m+schwa-rahj (with the 'j' indicating soft french ending. I'm no good at writing IPA). Maybe syllable has some guidelines, since I can't believe linguists would leave it subjective. Skittle 16:53, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- First off, I think Mnewmanqc has it backward: liquids are more likely to be syllabic than nasals. Michael is much more likely to be [ˈmaɪkl̩] than possum is to be [ˈpɑsm̩], and butter is pretty much never [ˈbʌtəɹ] but rather [ˈbʌtɚ] (or [ˈbʌtə] in nonrhotic accents). Both l and n are pretty uniformly syllabic after other alveolar sounds though: [ˈbɑtəl] for bottle and [ˈbʌtən] for button sound distinctly odd. As for how to count syllables objectively (i.e. purely on the basis of some acoustic or articulatory property as opposed to an instinctive gut feeling), it's actually very difficult. Consider the difference between the name Bowie (as in David Bowie, two syllables BOE-ee) and the word boy (one syllable). If you look at spectrograms of the two, you're going to have a very hard time telling them apart; whatever distinctions there are will be incredibly subtle. But every native speaker knows "instictively" Bowie is two syllables while boy has one. It's sad but true, the most reliable way of finding out how many syllables there are in a word is usually to ask a native speaker. Angr (t • c) 17:27, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- (Hope you don't mind, I used {{template:IPA}} on your IPA). I think it's an interesting thing, this syllable counting. For example, even if I try to pronounce 'mirage' quickly and casually as Mnewmanqc's IPA indicates, I end up with what I would count as two syllables. m+schwa-rahj (with the 'j' indicating soft french ending. I'm no good at writing IPA). Maybe syllable has some guidelines, since I can't believe linguists would leave it subjective. Skittle 16:53, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- Perhaps Angr is right about liquids being at least equally likely to be syllable nuclei. I was going by what I think I read in a textbook I used Kreidler's Pronunciation of English. A Course Book in Phonology, I may be wrong in my memory, but the thing is I do both and have no intuitions there. If so, I apologize.
- As for syllable structure, I think you might not look at the spectrogram but the waveform itself. I just did it myself using Praat, and I saw two peaks much more clearly both in the intensity and visible waveform itself in Bowie than Boy. As for Mrage. I do get the complete reduction, but I'm from NYC, and I've done almost all my phonetic analyses of this kind of speech from NYers. I wouldn't be at all surprised that others have less than full reduction in this context. [mɹ] is not normally phonotactically permissible in careful English; so it may also not be in rapid casual speech for many speakers. mnewmanqc
- That's cool about the waveform. I have heard that clusters impermissible in careful speech are often permissible in rapid speech; the canonical example is [ˈpteɾo] for potato in two syllables. Angr (t • c) 22:47, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
EnglishLanguage - singular/plural
How many words in the English Language are the same in the singular as the plural (for example: sheep, fish)? - Jayuu
- Not sure how many, but "craft" (in the sense of a vessel) and "aircraft" are two more examples. --68.238.243.228 18:03, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- And "offspring" and "species" are yet two more examples. Is there a term for words like these?--68.238.243.228 18:09, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- Read the article on mass nouns. You will see that forms like sheeps and fishes do exist.--El aprendelenguas 19:44, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- I'm not a native English speaker, but surely sheeps must be incorrect, whether it be used as a count or a mass noun? Google returns 19 hits for "several sheeps" and 29,300 for "several sheep". I did find one mention of sheeps on the BBC's web site but still... --Vibo56 20:10, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- I don't agree with the way sheeps was used in that BBC article, but the forms do exist, though rare. A good example would be "fishes of the coral reef". If you just say "fish of the coral reef", you are referring to the masses of fish in the reef, plain and simple. "fishes" puts the emphasis on the different types of fish, rather the fish (plural) of each species. It's a very vague difference and not all native speakers will use the words in that way. freshgavinΓΛĿЌ 16:56, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- Isn't this again an example of the distinction between count nouns and mass nouns, as mentioned by El aprendelenguas above? "Fish" is mentioned on the mass noun page as an example of a word which confuses the distinction because both "fish" and "fishes" are acceptable plural forms. My point was that "two fish" or "two fishes" is a matter of personal preference, but there is no such thing as "two sheeps". --vibo56 21:38, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- It could be but I don't think so. If had a bunch of different breeds of sheep in a room, I think it would be correct to call them sheeps, but maybe that's just me. freshgavinΓΛĿЌ 13:30, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- Isn't this again an example of the distinction between count nouns and mass nouns, as mentioned by El aprendelenguas above? "Fish" is mentioned on the mass noun page as an example of a word which confuses the distinction because both "fish" and "fishes" are acceptable plural forms. My point was that "two fish" or "two fishes" is a matter of personal preference, but there is no such thing as "two sheeps". --vibo56 21:38, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- I don't agree with the way sheeps was used in that BBC article, but the forms do exist, though rare. A good example would be "fishes of the coral reef". If you just say "fish of the coral reef", you are referring to the masses of fish in the reef, plain and simple. "fishes" puts the emphasis on the different types of fish, rather the fish (plural) of each species. It's a very vague difference and not all native speakers will use the words in that way. freshgavinΓΛĿЌ 16:56, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- I'm not a native English speaker, but surely sheeps must be incorrect, whether it be used as a count or a mass noun? Google returns 19 hits for "several sheeps" and 29,300 for "several sheep". I did find one mention of sheeps on the BBC's web site but still... --Vibo56 20:10, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- Read the article on mass nouns. You will see that forms like sheeps and fishes do exist.--El aprendelenguas 19:44, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- I think you've uncovered a shocking gap in our coverage: List of English words with identical singular and plural forms does not exist. 'Deer' is another, by the way. There must be some reason why animals are disproportionately represented. Many words of foreign origin are (or can be) the same, though: yen, kimono, baht, etc. HenryFlower 20:14, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- That's because they're from neuter nouns. Old English used to have lots of animal names that were neuter, and neuter singular and neuter plural looked the same. I can't remember the details, but I guess you can start some research of your own by looking at History of the English language and Old English language. --KJ 00:47, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- I can't seem to find anything relevant on Wikipedia. Here are some links to get you started: [10] [11] --KJ 00:56, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- That's because they're from neuter nouns. Old English used to have lots of animal names that were neuter, and neuter singular and neuter plural looked the same. I can't remember the details, but I guess you can start some research of your own by looking at History of the English language and Old English language. --KJ 00:47, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- It is certainly complicated. For instance, cattle is a mass noun but unlike fish, you cannot have a cattle. In fact there is universally accepted no word representing one member of the species. On a related notes, I saw this in the mass noun article:
"Thus, the following are all correct:
- "There are sands in the hourglass." (count)
- "There is sand in the hourglass." (mass)
- "There is a sand in the hourglass." (count)"Rmhermen 00:38, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
The second is certainly correct, the first could be correct if there were say black, white and green sands in the hourglass but I don't see how the third could ever be correct. Rmhermen 00:38, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- I think if I saw the 3rd sentence in an article, I would probably edit it to read either as the 2nd sentence or as "There is a grain of sand in the hourglass," depending on the context. --DavidGC 08:27, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- It's possible. I want to buy a type of sand for some purpose. I look at the ones you offer me, but I don't like them. I ask, "Do you have any other sands?" You say, "There is a sand in the hourglass". HenryFlower 09:25, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- I think if I saw the 3rd sentence in an article, I would probably edit it to read either as the 2nd sentence or as "There is a grain of sand in the hourglass," depending on the context. --DavidGC 08:27, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
May 22
What does this mean?
What does the word "Debauche" mean? I've looked it up on WP but to no avail. Help me. I hate words that aren't familiar.
- I think you mean 'debauch'- as a verb, 'seduce'; as a noun, 'orgy'. The spelling with an e seems to be unusual. HenryFlower 08:48, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- The noun form is debauchery, isn't it? СПУТНИКССС Р 15:37, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- Two different words: a debauch is one instance of debauchery. HenryFlower 18:24, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- There's also "debouch": To emerge, issue". Generally from a small confined area into a wider, more open area. User:Zoe|(talk) 18:15, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Debauch as a transitive verb means to corrupt, to reduce the value of. See dictionary.com's page on the word. The give the etymology as old French de+ bauch - apparently bauch is a sort of beam, so I take debauch to mean "to steer away from the straight and narrow". --Hughcharlesparker 19:15, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Film Review Format
Is there any specific film review format? What I can find from the web is about what can be include in a review, but this is not exactly what I want.
- When you write a film review for a magazine, newspaper or review web site, they will probably have a "house style" for you to follow. If you are writing an essay for school or for your own entertainment, you can write any format you wish. Wikipedia does not carry film reviews, if that was the question. Notinasnaid 13:33, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
This is a school assignment. In my rubric, there is a row which is called "genre format," so it is probably just about the style I write but not any specific format, is that right?
- I may be taking it out of context, but film genre is an important aspect of writing about a film (because the expectations and conventions that flow from the choice of genre). Notinasnaid 18:11, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I don't know Latin
How do you say "In spirit and in truth", "Way, Truth, Life" and "In the Light of the Lord" in Latin? I have looked up various dictionaries but there are just too many options they offer, and I don't know which ones are the best words to use! Thanks a lot!
- In my rough knowledge of Latin, I would guess that In anima et in vero would be "In spirit and in truth", "Way Truth and Life" would be Via, Verum, Vitaque (I particularly like the ring of that!) and "In the light of the Lord" would be In Luce Domini. СПУТНИКССС Р 15:33, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- If any of these are direct quotes from either the Bible or the traditional Catholic liturgy, it would be better to find the original Latin than to translate it back into Latin from English. And "truth" is Veritas, not Verum. Angr (t • c) 15:36, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah, it sounds like they woudl be from the Catholic liturgy. And as for truth, the first word that popped into my head was veritas. I wrote that, but I wasn't sure, so I checked in my Latin textbook, and it gave verum instead. However, my textbook is rather unreliable and I assume that you are more correct. In that case, it would be Via, Veritas, Vitaque, but would it be In anima et in veritate"? СПУТНИКССС Р 15:47, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- Okay, "in spirit and in truth" is from John 4:24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth", which is Spiritus est Deus et eos qui adorant eum in spiritu et veritate oportet adorare in the Vulgate. "Way, truth, life" is from John 14:6 "I am the way, the truth, and the life", which is Ego sum via et veritas et vita. "In the light of the Lord" is from Isaiah 2:5 "O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD", which is Domus Iacob venite et ambulemus in lumine Domini. So, the answers are:
- In spirit and in truth = In spiritu et veritate
- Way, Truth, Life = Via et veritas et vita
- In the light of the Lord = In lumine Domini
- Angr (t • c) 17:01, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- Okay, "in spirit and in truth" is from John 4:24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth", which is Spiritus est Deus et eos qui adorant eum in spiritu et veritate oportet adorare in the Vulgate. "Way, truth, life" is from John 14:6 "I am the way, the truth, and the life", which is Ego sum via et veritas et vita. "In the light of the Lord" is from Isaiah 2:5 "O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD", which is Domus Iacob venite et ambulemus in lumine Domini. So, the answers are:
- I was close. СПУТНИКССС Р 18:41, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Thank you guys a whole bunch! This really helps me a lot :)
U.S. piano tuner strikes chord against embargo, doctors instruments in Cuba
'Strike chord' or 'Strike a chord have been used often to discribe being touched by something, correct? What is the imterpretation of the subject/headline in layman's term?
SY
- It's a pun. "Strike a chord" is an idiom that means something like "make a point". It's a pun because "strike a chord" literally means to play a chord, for example on a piano, which makes sense because it's a piano tuner. —Keenan Pepper 18:55, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- The odd thing is that the idiom "to strike a chord" means something more like "to cause a feeling of familiarity." The writer of the headline seems to have conflated "strike a chord" with "strike a blow [for freedom]," for which Google reports 11,000 results. Thus, my interpretation, as a layman, is that the headline writer needs a good editor. --LarryMac 20:25, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- (Edit conflict)I thought 'strike a chord' idiomatically meant something more like 'seems true to the other person/is in accord with their feelings' than 'make a point'. So The Matrix 'struck a chord' with people who felt there had to be more to the world. But I'm guessing it is used in Keenan Pepper's sense, in America, hence perhaps SY's confusion. Sounds very odd to me. Skittle 20:31, 22 May 2006 (UTC) Reading LarryMac's comment, maybe it is just as wrong as it feels. Skittle 20:32, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- "To strike a chord" is a musical metaphor suggesting a somewhat sudden, harmonious, and pleasing connection or resolution. --Halcatalyst 22:07, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- Here's a reference, not that distinguished IMHO. --Halcatalyst 22:14, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Voice Jitter and Shimer
Hello,
In the Praat program for Audio/Voice analysis they use Jitter and Shimer to describe pulses in the Voice.
Is it a standard experssion? since I didn't found any reference outside.
What is the meaning of high or low jitter and shimer? In the sense of what causes it? what is it reflecting?
Thanks, Mushin
- Here's a technical tutorial reference. "Jitter" and "shimmer" are also everyday English words. --Halcatalyst 21:57, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
October
If the prefix "octo-" means eight, then why is october the 10th month of the year?24.107.18.136 20:54, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- Check out our article on October - the answer's in the third paragraph. Matt Eason 20:57, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Reading Quotations
- Iranian President Ahmadinejad said quote the Iranian nation doesn’t give a damn about such useless [U.N.] resolutions unquote.
- Iranian President Ahmadinejad said quote-unquote the Iranian nation doesn’t give a damn about such useless [U.N.] resolutions. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12851815/page/2/
Which one is preferable in American English when a person is speaking, quote "..." unquote or quote-unquote "...?" Patchouli 20:56, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- None. Iranian President Ahmadinejad said quote the Iranian nation doesn’t give a damn about such useless [U.N.] resolutions. (Slightly lengthened pause). Otherwise, the first is less objectionable. --Diderot 21:09, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- If I wanted to immediately proffer my opinion without pausing before another person in a discussion interjects, then it would be permissible for me to say unquote, right?Patchouli
- What might be called a someone-said statement can be followed with the expression "quote unquote" for emphasis (often uttered semi-belligerently, so with no fine touch for accuracy of quotation!). --Halcatalyst 21:45, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- If I wanted to immediately proffer my opinion without pausing before another person in a discussion interjects, then it would be permissible for me to say unquote, right?Patchouli
'Racism' Inside a Race
Is there a word for someone who favors one ethnic group over another? For instance, if a Hutu discriminates against a Tutsi or if a Japanese discriminates against a Korean. I can only come up with the word racist, but here the discrimination is inside the race.
I know that there is no ethnicist; is there another single word?Patchouli 20:59, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- I routinely use ethnocentric when referring to such behaviour. --Diderot 21:04, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- Race is such a slippery term that racist applies perfectly well. EdC 23:20, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- Or, you could go even broader and just call them a 'bigot'. Black Carrot 02:32, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- Or, since "race" doesn't have a scientific meaning, just call them racist. I accuse my West German husband of being a racist when he makes derogatory remarks about East Germans. Angr (t • c) 07:58, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- Or, you could go even broader and just call them a 'bigot'. Black Carrot 02:32, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
May 23
Sentence Challenge
In a coffee break at work, my colleagues and I debated the possibility of coming up with a valid English sentence of at least four seven words, where every word has exactly 9 letters. Can this be done? A barnstar (or maybe a brainstar) for the longest sentence. JackofOz 02:08, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
How about "Everybody considers elephants necessary"? Does it have to make sense logically or just grammatically? This shouldn't be too difficult, you just won't be able to use any of the most frequently used Germanic-based words. Adam Bishop 02:24, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- Ideally it would be a sentence that nobody would take any exception to at all. But we don't live in an ideal world, so ..... (not sure if that answers your question or not). JackofOz 03:03, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Extending that, "Everybody considers Ukrainian elephants necessary." Or "Everybody considers Ukrainian elephants necessary drawbacks." Although, that last one's stretching it, there should really be a "to be" in there. Black Carrot 02:30, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- No, that's fine, Black Carrot. I wouldn't have let "consider to be" through. I consider it a tautology. :--) You're the leader at the moment. Or you would be, if I hadn't taken the view that four words (and even six words) was too easy, and hadn't retrospectively raised the minimum number of words to seven. (Such is the magic of Wikipedia). JackofOz 03:03, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- Let's make it
nineten. "Virtually everybody available privately considers untrained Ukrainian elephants necessary drawbacks." I'm not sure it can get any longer without stacking adjectives... —Zero Gravitas 04:32, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- Let's make it
Hah! "Virtually everybody available helpfully considers verbosely formatted sentences, tautology following tautology, validates immediate deletions forthwith." That's 15! Proto||type 12:25, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- Excellent. Impressed. JackofOz 12:27, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- Ah, but 'sentences' requires 'validate', making it too short. Sadly, as it is a wonderous creation. Skittle 17:41, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- Condoleez' consider'd hammering Uzbek'stan ? (4*9) --DLL 18:53, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
verb form of "Wikipedia"
What is the verb form of "Wikipedia," if there is an accepted or prevailing form? Aside from contributing to the decay of the English language, a verb would be of great convenience. I would no longer have to say, "I want to look up an article on [topic] in the Wikipedia," simply, "I want to [verb] [topic]."
- I use the word wikipedia itslef, as in "I'm going to wikipedia English verbs." This construction is analogous to Google's, as in "He googled a famous celebrity," which is now more established or accepted.--El aprendelenguas 02:17, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- Definitely. When in doubt, wikipedia it. —Keenan Pepper 03:42, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- One thing I have always liked about English is that it sounds better the more originally you use it. That's why I "hit the 'pedia", "WP it up", or maybe even "give it a wik'" if I'm in high spirits. freshgavinΓΛĿЌ 13:14, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Detroit, Michigan - using IPA
I recently was told that the IPA spelling for Detroit is off. However, I am not sure exactly what it should be and would appreciate some feedback on this. PentawingTalk 04:31, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- What specifically do they say is wrong? I'd say it's fine. Of course, pronunciations vary. For example (depending perhaps on my mood, setting, surrounding words, who knows?), I myself use |i| and |ə| interchangeable for the e (maybe even |ʌ| on occasion and |e| in a "Frenchish" setting but speaking English). -user:rasd
- The message concerning the IPA spelling was left at Wikipedia:Peer_review#Detroit, Michigan. PentawingTalk 22:24, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
x
What does /x\ mean or stand for? I have searched wiki and google and have only come up with unrelated results.
- /x/? Do you mean voiceless velar fricative? --KJ 06:17, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- It could be a smiley face. Looks to me like a smiley face expressing grief, not unlike >_<. freshgavinΓΛĿЌ 13:06, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- A guy goes to a psychiatrist and says, "Ya gotta help me, doc. I keep dreaming about teepees and wigwams. It's driving me crazy." "Take two of these," the shrink replies. "You're two tents."
- So, with the right font, maybe /x\ is a smiley for tense? --Halcatalyst 15:10, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
The trend of Japanese writing
When I visited Japan recently, I was astonished by the prevalence of the use of Katakana which replaced a lot of Hiragana or Kanji. I wonder where can I find official or academic survey about this phenomenon.
- "Replaced" is a little bit presumptuous, the official spelling will probably never change. There is a misunderstanding about katakana that it is only used to signify borrowed words. Katakana has also been used historically in a manner similar to italics in English. Though it is true that katakana are often used for style (いいネ！) as opposed to italic emphasis (スゴイ！), it would be extremely difficult to determine which case is which, so I doubt there's any possibility of finding any academic papers on the topic. I have seen a few papers on popular writing style though, so there might be some information about katakana use there. Another thing to remember is that animal names are almost always written in katakana (カエル, イルカ) and this is standard style. Kanji for animal names are generally quite complex (キリン, giraffe, is 麒麟) and as most of them come direct from Chinese, while the words themselves generally don't, it's difficult for Japanese people to remember which kanji to use, so it's understandable that they are rarely used anymore (though names like 海豚, meaning "sea pig", or dolphin, are popular for quiz shows). freshgavinΓΛĿЌ 13:05, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
origin of a phrase
Hi everyone
What does 'to lose one's thread mean literally and what is the origin of the phrase. Thank you v much.
- "To lose the thread" means to cease following (or understanding) how different parts of a story or argument are connected. I think the origin is the myth of Ariadne, Theseus and the Minotaur. David Sneek 10:25, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- Good ol' Theseus did not lose his. It could be, more flatly, a weaver's fault. You have to find the thread and make a knott and roll it back in the shuttle. Or a spinster's ? --DLL 18:46, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
holus bolus
I am trying to find the correct spelling for "holus bolus", as well as, the original language, and, the English translation. It seems to be a less popular phrase these days.70.27.185.36 13:48, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- Probably unrelated, but I can't stop thinkin hocus pocus. freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ 15:27, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- I'm skeptical that this was intended to have any very definite meaning, but in Latin "holus" is a vegetable and "bolus" a throw, while in early modern English a "bolus" was a pill. AnonMoos 16:16, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- "bolus" is still a pill in medical circles. User:Zoe|(talk) 19:59, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- What does it mean anyway? Jameswilson 22:27, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Backwards story
What is the name for a story which begins with the ending, and then travels backwards in order to show how the events shown happened? smurrayinchester(User), (Talk) 14:25, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- You mean like Memento? The only term I can think of is "confusing". The article on Memento, though links to Reverse chronology. Angr (t • c) 14:31, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Correct pronunciation
I've heard umami pronounced several ways. Who knows? --hydnjo talk 17:36, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- If you're Japanese, then /umami/. --KJ 17:50, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- Not quite, Japanese "u" is unrounded: [ɯmami]. —Zero Gravitas 18:36, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- Could you explain as "sounds like" or "rhymes with" -- thanks. --hydnjo talk 18:42, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- Is this correct? --hydnjo talk 19:37, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- Could you explain as "sounds like" or "rhymes with" -- thanks. --hydnjo talk 18:42, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- Not quite, Japanese "u" is unrounded: [ɯmami]. —Zero Gravitas 18:36, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
A word to describe...
Is there a word that is used to describe a word which describes itself. I cant think of any examples but say, for example:
the meaning of the word" elaplozaba" is simply "elaplozaba"
Heh, I know it sounds like a silly question but yes.
Thank you
- The word pentasyllabic is self-descriptive because it means "having five syllables" and it has five syllables. I don't know what elaplozaba means (or even what language it is) so I don't know if you're talking about the same thing. —Keenan Pepper 21:18, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- How about autological. Also take a look at List of autological words. --hydnjo talk 22:08, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Question: Word/phrase meaning "it proves itself"
I am trying to find a word/phrase that means something that proves itself... Such as the fact that such and such exists is proof enough of its right to exist. It's not syllogism, or Q.E.D. but something in that ballpark. Thank you for any help.