Template talk:Arab–Israeli conflict
First half missing
This template needs expansion: it omits the pre-1948 part of the conflict. See History of the Arab-Israeli conflict, {{Campaignbox Arab-Israeli conflict}}, History of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict & Timeline of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. ←Humus sapiens ну? 22:02, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Template size
This template is too huge! Make a portal and put a link to the portal (see bottom of Serbian article on the Six-Day War. [1]--TheFEARgod 16:23, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
- The Cold War has a similarly large template - personally I don't think the size is a problem since it's at the bottom of the article page. Joffeloff 16:43, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
- I don't oppose the creation a portal, but I don't think a template on the bottom of the page bothers anyone. Sijo Ripa 16:58, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
This template is too large to be suitable for inclusion on many pages. It might just make more sense to move this to an article called "Overview of the Arab-Israeli Conflict" and then pare down the template a lot to just create a link with the text "For more on the Arab-Israeli Conflict, go here..." --Cyde↔Weys 19:20, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
It is possible to make it able to be hidden? Some other articles have either references or templates that can be hidden and shown with a click. --Iorek85 03:42, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
- Found what I was looking for; Cold War. --Iorek85 23:41, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
- "Hide" option included now. Enjoy, Sijo Ripa 00:23, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks. That's much better. Nice work. :) --Iorek85 00:59, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
- "Hide" option included now. Enjoy, Sijo Ripa 00:23, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
- Won't it make more sense if it was somehow auto-hidden, and those who want to "know more" can click it to reveal the rest? Seems more logical to me. Those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind. 17:52, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
- I disagree. It would not be logical to assume the bottomreader doesn't want to know more. Someone who looks to the bottom of the page is usually searching for more information, whether they search for external info ("references", "footnotes" and "external links") or more Wikipedia info ("see also" and templates like this one). If this template would have been included in the middle of an article, it could be possibly be more logical to auto-hide however. Sijo Ripa 18:54, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
- If you assume that, the whole "hide" function is useless. Those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind. 10:10, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, it needs to be auto hide, or at least remember what my choice was. Everytime you edit or reload the page, it pops back up again. --Iorek85 01:53, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
- If you assume that, the whole "hide" function is useless. Those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind. 10:10, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
- I disagree. It would not be logical to assume the bottomreader doesn't want to know more. Someone who looks to the bottom of the page is usually searching for more information, whether they search for external info ("references", "footnotes" and "external links") or more Wikipedia info ("see also" and templates like this one). If this template would have been included in the middle of an article, it could be possibly be more logical to auto-hide however. Sijo Ripa 18:54, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
- Won't it make more sense if it was somehow auto-hidden, and those who want to "know more" can click it to reveal the rest? Seems more logical to me. Those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind. 17:52, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
States and people
On an entirely different note, why are there no Norwegians on this template? I guess our role in the so-called 'peace process' is vastly overrated in our media.. Joffeloff 16:43, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
- I started working on this template today, and I'm far from satisfied with the "states" and "people" parts. For instance the UK and France have played a major role from the 1910's till the end of the '50s, but aren't mentioned... The role of the USSR... Norway's role has been important also. The whole time period (at least from 1917 till 2006) is just way too big to have a summary of the most important people, as I can mention a at least a dozen equally important people. Something else that bothers me is the name of the template. Iran has played a very important role, but isn't an Arab state. Sijo Ripa 16:45, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
- Well, neither is America. I don't think it's a problem, the conflict is (currently) one between arabs and Israelis and has been up until now, time will tell if Iran joins in. Their current behind-the-scenes role in supplying arms and other things to Hezbollah is no bigger than America's role on the other side, so I don't think the conflict ought to be renamed just for that.
- Also, I didn't know this template was that young. Great work! What, in my opinion, would be a great addition would be flags for the various organizations. Hezbollah, the UN and the Arab League already have their flags uploaded on Wikipedia - however I have yet to see the flags of the various Palestinian organizations, even the ubiquitous green Hamas flag with the shahada on it. What do you think of this? Joffeloff 17:04, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
- I didn't create the template, but I started improving it today, as I think it was (and still is) underdeveloped. Adding flags is a good idea I think. Sijo Ripa 17:07, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
- Nice edits! I'm going to dig for a proper version of the green Hamas flag. Even fotw doesn't have it. Joffeloff 20:01, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Bush II?
When I created the template, I decided not to add George W. Bush because his administration has not been heavily involved in the conflict, at least compared to those of earlier presidents. Please provide some examples of heavy Bush involvement. --72.136.36.104 23:29, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
- Ask User: Staxringold, he added it. Sijo Ripa 23:31, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
- I am reading this after I've added him, along with a few others. See Road map for peace. ←Humus sapiens ну? 10:32, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Lebanon
Could someone please add the Lebanese leaders, I only know of those who have been in the news very recently.
Also, should Hassan Nasrallah be beside the Hezbollah flag or the Lebanon flag?
- I think it should be Hezbollah.--Dimigw 18:34, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
- I just changed it. CynicalMe 20:05, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
- Hm.. Perhaps the UN people like Rød-Larsen etc should be represented by the UN flag instead if we're going to follow this format? --Joffeloff 17:12, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
- I just changed it. CynicalMe 20:05, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
Canada?
Robin Hood 1212 22:01, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
If you're asking why Canada is included, it's because Lester B. Pearson, as Secretary of State for External Affairs, played a crucial role in the diffusing of the 1957 Suez Crisis, for which he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.
Arab League
The Arab League is listed twice. SOmeone remove it: I'm not sure, myself, where it should be omitted from.—msh210℠ 06:03, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
- Sorry, i didnt see it was already up, my bad. --Dimigw 18:33, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
Won't it be more useful to have it within the EU/UN, not between the first organization category? The Arab League works a bit like EU and surely is wrong between Hisbollah, Fatah et. al. --213.155.224.232 19:27, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
- Ya, i added it because i though that that would be where it shoud go, i didnt bother to look above because they were all terrorist groups, the Arab League should definitly be moved.--Dimigw 21:37, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
Added Siniora
i added the PM of Lebanon to the list. I believe that it was required because it is under his leadarship that the Hezbollah-Israel conflict began. Also, he has been the one leading the charge for a cease fire between the two groups. So i believe that he should be in it.--Dimigw 18:42, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
- The Individuals column is by far the longest. We can easily double or triple its size, but I'd rather make it as short as possible. So far Siniora did not do anything important to make serious impact oin the AIC, so I took the liberty of removing his name. Objections? ←Humus sapiens ну? 21:19, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
- But it is because he did not follow 1559 that a lot of this has happened, his inaction played a very serious role on the AIC.--70.39.205.84 21:34, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
UN SC RES 1559
I think we should add United Nations Security Council Resolution 1559 to the list. It is the faliure of the Lebanese government action towards this that helpes spark the war between israel and hezbollah. just an idea.--Dimigw 18:51, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
- IMHO, 1559 is not directly related to the AIC. Let's try to make this as compact and relevant as possible. ←Humus sapiens ну? 21:15, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
- How is it not related? It was enacted to help stop the tensions arising on that border. And it is one of the reasons Israel invaded Lebanon. The resolution also feuled hezbollahs anger towards Israel. I was in Lebanon last year, and i visited some of the villages in the south, and al over the place were signs denouncing 1559 as well as Israel, side by side. It is very relevent.--70.39.205.84 21:33, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
- If other editors think that UNSCR/1559 is important, I won't object. But let's keep in mind that this template is for the entire AIC, and not for the latest flareup. ←Humus sapiens ну? 23:31, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
- How is it not related? It was enacted to help stop the tensions arising on that border. And it is one of the reasons Israel invaded Lebanon. The resolution also feuled hezbollahs anger towards Israel. I was in Lebanon last year, and i visited some of the villages in the south, and al over the place were signs denouncing 1559 as well as Israel, side by side. It is very relevent.--70.39.205.84 21:33, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
Irgun and Lehi
Why is the flag of Israel used as the logo of the lehi and the Irgun? They both had their own symbols... Elite compact 11:14, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
And what about the Palmach?
Soviet Union
i moved Soviet Union to former participants.ComradeWolf 18:52, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
I added UAR, Levi Eshkol, Benjamin Netanyahu
NATO
And on that note about the size of the box, I was going to start to add NATO to the template of participating organizations, under the EU and UN. It seems that word from the UN is that any kind of buffer zone that will be created when/if this conflict ceases, may be patrolled by NATO. But, of course, I'm not going to add anything until there is something concrete written about it. Bsheppard 20:44, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
More additions
As we try to keep this template current and up to date, we should probably add Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice (her shuttle diplomacy) and UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan (for obvious reasons) and probably even US Ambassador to the UN John R. Bolton (for his actions in the UNSC to keep the group from demanding a cease fire through the threat of a veto) and Britain's Tony Blair (for staying the course with the US president in their war on terror). Bsheppard 20:54, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Basijis
They regularly carry out government rally and chant anti-Israeli slogans.--Patchouli 02:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Lebanese Politicians
Should fouad Siniora and Émile Lahoud be added? They seem pretty important in the Israel-Lebanon conflict. 190.40.23.107 01:52, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
- I agree. There is many lebanese politicians missing. imi2 12:36, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
- Added them. 190.40.23.107 03:00, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Logos
I added many logos of organizations that had them missing and they were reverted. Why? They should have their logos. 190.40.23.107 01:54, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
- We have a policy that unfreely-licensed content cannot be used in template space. A number of editors feel that logos should be an exception to this rule, but the policy seems unlikely to change. Jkelly 19:37, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
Why not anything about Sabra and Shatila massacre?
The 1953 Qibya massacre has a link, so why not a link to Sabra and Shatila massacre ? imi2 12:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
- Because that's part of the Lebanese civil war, which already has a link in the template. Almost every link in the template has sub-events. Adding them all is exaggerated and confusing for the user. However if you think it's really important, be free to add it. Sijo Ripa 19:13, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
length!
these list templates are getting out of hand. templates are not categories: link ten or twelve central topics, don't list everything and everyone involved. Ask yourselves, who will benefit from a template that is essentially a list with 200 entries? If I want a list of articles, I use categories. dab (ᛏ) 20:48, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
- I think the size is fine. As you see in the earlier notes about it, you can "hide" the template. It's huge because the Arab-Israeli Conflict is huge. It's not something you can condense into a 1 inch box.Bsheppard 20:44, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- but what use is it, especially if you hide it? "hideable templates" are a hideous idea. It's not supposed to summarize anything: it's supposed to present the main links to the summaries. "Its topic is huge" is simply not a valid point, see {{Footer_SolarSystem}} (not to mention {{Solar system}}): I am sure that is a template about something huge. So what? dab (ᛏ) 19:45, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
- Perhaps we should remove the "other participant"-section and perhaps the people's collumn. The first adds almost nothing (the links provide no explanation how these countries were important + it's debatble who has played a role - and almost every country has played one, which means that it can keep expanding). The latter can expand almost infinitely, as events are already going on from 1917 onwards and is currently biased in favor of the events since the 1990's. If no one objects, I will remove both sections. Sijo Ripa 20:02, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
- but what use is it, especially if you hide it? "hideable templates" are a hideous idea. It's not supposed to summarize anything: it's supposed to present the main links to the summaries. "Its topic is huge" is simply not a valid point, see {{Footer_SolarSystem}} (not to mention {{Solar system}}): I am sure that is a template about something huge. So what? dab (ᛏ) 19:45, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
Removing the people's collumn
As there are no criteria defined for the inclusion of individuals, this template is getting more and more bloated. There are at least (!) a few dozen extra people that were really important. Because the template is currently biased towards more recent events (events since the '90's) they are not yet added. (Also, many people since the '90's are not added.) Don't forget the conflict and tensions are going on since 1917. Do we really want a template with 100 people or more mentioned? This is not a category of "Arab-Israeli conflict people". Furthermore the links to the people's collumn do not directly explain how these people were relevant for this conflict, while the conflict and diplomacy collumns are directly relevant. Even more: relevant people are mentioned in these pages. I will restore this template. If you disagree, provide arguments. 134.58.253.131 20:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
- As I do agree that some people there were irrelevant, most of the really important people should be there. People like Medeline Albright,Cytus Vance and Chaim Weizmann should not be there since they hardly represent anything in the Arab-Israeli conflict. However, people like the al-Assads, Mahmoud Abbas, Yasse Arafat, Golda Meir, Ehud barak, Ehud Olmert, Shimon Peres, Ariel Sharon, Lester B. Pearson, Faisal of Iraq, Arthur Balfour and Hassan Nasrallah should definitely be listed. Many of the people in the list have been invovled in the coflict during the nineties (there was more peace then) like Arafat, Abbas and Clinton as well as conflicts. 190.40.23.107 20:47, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
- I never stated that people in the collumn were irrelevant. I said that there are simply way too much important people, that this not a category (but a template), that the links do not provide a direct explanation in how they were important, and that the links in the other collumns already explain how these people were important. I'm a bit disappointed that you didn't respond to my arguments. Until we make strict criteria for the inclusion of people, we should refrain from a people's collumn (and as a consequence I will be bold and restore the template to its former form until such criteria are made). 134.58.253.131 20:54, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
- Who makes criteria? The template was OK. Most of the people are important in the conflict and links to these people do tell something about the involvemnt in the Arab-Israeli conflict. For example: Mahmoud Abbas, Bill Clinton, Yasser Arafat, Faisal of Iraq, Balfour, the al-Assads are all involved in this and all of their articles do talk about their involvement in the conflict. We should revert is to what is was until and admin or a senior member come and make criteria. 190.40.23.107 21:00, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
- Since when do admins have to make criteria? Normally regular users do so in a (rough) consensus. At this moment, only you seem to object - while I and some other users have complained about the fact that this template gets bloated. Also please respond to my arguments, which you still haven't done. If you keep reverting it, at least don't revert the added things (a few UNSC resolutions). 134.58.253.131 15:42, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
- I can't respond to any of your arguments because I can't see them. Would you mind actually listing them? The only thing I understand from you is that it should not be listed because it is unnecessary. I think it should be listed because it provides users information on the people involved in the conflict and if you click on them how they were involved. Also, they are based on other columns, such as Conflicts and peace proposals. Who made the conflicts and the peace proposals: the individuals. See? They must be there. //BTW, it's me,190.... My IP has chaned for some reason...//201.240.122.95 20:10, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
- Since when do admins have to make criteria? Normally regular users do so in a (rough) consensus. At this moment, only you seem to object - while I and some other users have complained about the fact that this template gets bloated. Also please respond to my arguments, which you still haven't done. If you keep reverting it, at least don't revert the added things (a few UNSC resolutions). 134.58.253.131 15:42, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
- Who makes criteria? The template was OK. Most of the people are important in the conflict and links to these people do tell something about the involvemnt in the Arab-Israeli conflict. For example: Mahmoud Abbas, Bill Clinton, Yasser Arafat, Faisal of Iraq, Balfour, the al-Assads are all involved in this and all of their articles do talk about their involvement in the conflict. We should revert is to what is was until and admin or a senior member come and make criteria. 190.40.23.107 21:00, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
- I never stated that people in the collumn were irrelevant. I said that there are simply way too much important people, that this not a category (but a template), that the links do not provide a direct explanation in how they were important, and that the links in the other collumns already explain how these people were important. I'm a bit disappointed that you didn't respond to my arguments. Until we make strict criteria for the inclusion of people, we should refrain from a people's collumn (and as a consequence I will be bold and restore the template to its former form until such criteria are made). 134.58.253.131 20:54, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
List of arguments and poll
List of arguments
For several reasons, I want to remove the people's collumn and the indirect participants section. Because it seems unclear why I want this, I list my arguments in numbers, which should make it easy for everyone to follow. Please reply below my list in the opinion poll and not in between my arguments:
- The template is getting way too big.
- The indirect participant section (of the first collumn) doesn't add anything, because it doesn't say in what way they were indirect participants, when, how, etc. nor do their links.
- The people's collumn: (1) There are simply way too many important and relevant people. There are at least a few dozens people that could be added. The conflict has its roots since at least 1917 - which means that there are a lot of people not yet mentioned. Do we want to have a list of (more than) 100 people? (2) The people's wikilinks often do not provide a direct explanation in how these people are relevant - which does not mean that the page does not mention how they were relevant - but they often do not deal in the first place with the conflict - unlike the diplomacy and conflict collumns. Even more, how they were relevant is already mentioned in the last two collumns (conflict and diplomacy), which further reduces the need of a people's collumn. (3) The choice of people in this collumn is subjective (while the direct participants, the conflict and the diplomacy collumns are not) because there are no objective criteria who should be included and who shouldn't. The conflict and diplomacy collumns do not have this problem: they include all conflicts and plans/agreements/resolutions. (4) A template is not a category. Those are two distinct concepts and this template should not strive to be a category - in this case by trying to include all relevant people to the Arab-Israeli conflict - a specific user category could do this.
- Minor argument: aesthetic concerns. 134.58.253.131 15:59, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
- (1) The template may be a little big, but it is usually at the bottom of long articles and people that read these articles may be interested in the individuals involved in the conflict and other events.
(2)I partially agree with you that some of the links (most of them do) do not talk about the involvement of individuals in the conflict. However, it is important that whether they are or aren't links that people be able to know more about to conflict from the part of the conflict they were reading (an article with the template at the bottom). It is not so important to mention how they were relevant, but that they were involved in the conflict. The mission of this template is to inform readers that the subject they're reading is part of a larger subject and provides links to other important areas of the subject. (3) That I agree with you. But still, over 80% of the links to individuals do mention their involvement and they were very important people in the conflict. I do agree with you that some people can definitely be removed from there, such as Madeline Albright, which is subjective. (4)Most of the people that are there are relevant. Some are not, which can be removed.
Minor argument: IMO, it looks good. It is slightly larger than the edit window. It is large because of its importance and duration of events. I see this as the most complete and useful template in Wikipedia.
Until the future of the template is agreed, it stays the way it was. 201.240.248.62 21:38, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
Poll
This poll is designed to get to know the ideas and arguments of other people, as this seems currently to be a difference in ideas between me and 190/201.
- Support the above mentioned change.
- Oppose the above mentioned change.
- 201.240.248.62 21:39, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
- Tabjai 03:10, 11 August 2006 (UTC) 190/201 is right.
- Note that this user is most likely a sockpuppet as the first and only edits made by this users were the above oppose. 134.58.253.131 17:00, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
- 200.60.106.2 16:47, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
- Could you add your arguments? Sijo Ripa 20:56, 11 August 2006 (UTC) (note that I'm now permanently home, as opposed to the earlier days on which I used random computers)
- Comment
Until it is decided, it stays the way it was. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.240.248.62 (talk)
- Though I do not wish a edit war, I'll refrain from restoring the page. But remember that simply saying "I decide that it should stay this way" is a bit uncivil. Also, I don't like the fact that one sockpuppet and one anonymous user without arguments entered the poll. I wish a true debate between real users. 134.58.253.131 17:00, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
The individuals are important. They basically represent the entire conflict.
- No one ever said that individuals weren't important. Read my arguments carefully. 134.58.253.131 17:00, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
- I mean that until things are decided things must stay as they are. And I don't know about those two, they voiced their opinion. 190.40.23.107 20:17, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Two Individuals Columns and Other States and Governments
These sections of the template must remain under 1 individuals column and the other section under the participants columns. Here are my arguments:
Arguments
(1) the other states and governemnts, organizations and former states are important and must remain there because they have been involved in a lower level than the other states in the conflict. `For example, Norway was important laying the Oslo accords, Iran laying a lot of support for resistance movements, Russia providing small military and moral support to nations at war with Israel, the US by supporting Israel, supplying arms and laying many peace accords, the UK for bsically sparking this conflict, Germany for being a mediator in a prisoner exchange, the UN for making all the UNSC resolutions in the 4th column, etc. As you may see, these are very important. (2) Two columns for individuals in unnecessary. They all fit appropriately in one column, and it is in fact slightly smaller than the full participants column. It looks very uneven being split up and an indivuduals 1 and 2 column does not look good. Also, the template width is slightly large with another column. I've seen other templates similar to this one such as the Cold War and War on Terrorism ones and are very similar in width and slightly smaller in length. This template aesthetically is fine. 201.240.163.51 00:33, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Counterarguments
(1) (a) The links do not provide an explanation about how these countries were relevant. If such links would exist, I wouldn't object. I don't say these indirectly involved countries weren't important (they were!) - but links to the economy, culture and demographics of a country doesn't add anything which is relevant to this template. An uninformed user of this template doesn't know how these countries were relevant and as such it doesn't add value (or even more: such user can get confused). (b) How these countries were relevant however is dealt with directly (and partially) in the people's collumn (the flags) and indirectly in the conflict & diplomacy collumns. (c) This template is getting too big. Much more countries were relevant and important, and adding them all would further bloat this template - but not provide new information. (d) The choice of countries is subjective.
(c) & (d) Algerian volunteers fought in the 1948 Arab-Israeli War and Algeria sent squadrons of fighters and bombers, armored brigades, and dozens of tanks in the 1973 Yom Kippur War. Morocco sent three brigades to the front lines in the 1973 Yom Kippur War, while Libya sent Mirage fighters and gave Egypt around $1 billion to arm for war. Tunisia sent over 1,000 soldiers, who worked with Egyptian forces in the Nile delta, and Sudan sent 3,500 soldiers. Cuba also sent approximately 1,500 troops including tank and helicopter crews who reportedly also engaged in combat operations against the IDF. Also: Tunisia provided shelter for the PLO, which caused Operation Wooden Leg. Iran is also not (anymore/yet) added. Uganda under Idi Amin played an important role also.---These are just some examples. There are many more. Should they all be added? - by providing wikilinks to their countries, not their role? Who decides what countries are/were important enough to be added?
(2) It looks much more prettier. I'm not the only one would finds the old template extremely ugly because it had excessive and unnecessary long collumns.
Btw, 201, I must admit I get annoyed. I don't really know why you make such a huge point out of a minor edit. Normally, one leaves the template/article as it is and then discusses the matter. After a few days of discussion and after reaching a consensus, one can possibly revert it. Its getting very hard to assume good faith because of this, especially considering your earlier (first and multiple) violation of the three-revert-rule, the sudden appearance of sockpuppets, and the fact that you reverted the template again before reaching a consensus. What further bothers me, is that you never check whether there were other edits which were not related to your concerns. Last time, you reverted unquestionable important UNSC resolutions, this time you reverted some small edits which were included in my edit. I would also suggest you register, or log into an extisting account (if any). Sijo Ripa 02:23, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Poll
This poll is to see ideas of other people since about the individuals and the other participans of this templates since there is an ongoing disagreement between me and Sijo Ripa/134...
- Support the above mentioned change.
- Oppose the above mentioned change.
- Comment