Rename?
"Public debt" has a serious potential for confusion. When one says "the public debt" then this does mean "the debt of the government, as does the term "government debt". But "public debt" does not mean "debt of the public" - the public pays for it but the debt is not collectable from the public. To avoid confusion I suggest this article be renamed government debt. Paul Beardsell 08:15, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Exactly, the article begins "public debt is money owed by government". It doesn't make any sense to call it public debt then. It should say "public debt is money owed by the public" then. I'll move it to government debt for now. - Jerryseinfeld 17:58, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Government ownership
This section up until the first horizontal line copied from Jerry's talk page.
- Jerryseinfeld, moving a page from the most common term (public ownership) to one you think appropriate (government ownership), against disagreement by others (see Talk:public ownership, which for some reason you didn't move) is very rude. You also managed to garble the perfectly adequate intro, and add vague, confusing and POV stuff. I'm on the verge of conidering this a dispute - please explain yourself. Rd232 11:55, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- I did explain myself in the talk page. You can probably move it to public ownership if you want to, it could be either one. - Jerryseinfeld 17:15, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- This also seems inconsistent with Jerry's redirecting of sovereign bond and government debt to public debt. What's going on? Paul Beardsell 12:42, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Public debt isn't government debt? Now come on. - Jerryseinfeld 17:19, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- I said nothing of the kind. I remarked that you were being inconsistent in your renaming of articles. But, as it happens, I do NOT think that public debt and government debt are entirely the same. Two different flavours are given with the two different terms. There is a certain political positioning happening when one refers to govt debt as public debt. But my main objection is that government debt is unambiguous, whereas "public debt" requires one to be aware of and accept the use of public in that sense - there is an ambiguity: "Public" debt could be misunderstood as, say, the aggregated credit card debts of the individuals forming the public. You have been introducing ambiguity and inconsistency. Without always the PRIOR consultation which would avoid you annoying people. Paul Beardsell 20:45, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- I absolutely agree, that's why I moved it to government debt. - Jerryseinfeld 20:47, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Which I tried to move back (but can't), because "public debt" beats "government debt" 2:1 in Google and rather more in conventional usage, and Wikipedia convention is to use the most common term. As for Paul Beardsell's argument - the correct term would be consumer debt. If there is any serious risk of confusion then the public debt page can include a For debts owed by individuals, see consumer debt at the top. Rd232 12:19, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- I absolutely agree, that's why I moved it to government debt. - Jerryseinfeld 20:47, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
As I said: they would be mistaken to use "public debt" like that in my example but the mistake is likely to be made. I disagree about conventional usage. I think most people would say "hey, what?" to "public debt" whereas "government debt" would be instantly understood. The Google statistic you quote I find unimpressive: There are twice as many pages returned for public than for government. So twice as many pages for "public debt" (note the quotes) as for "government debt" says little or nothing. The Wikipedia conventions say a little more than you let on: ambiguity is to be avoided and understandability is to be promoted. Paul Beardsell 14:35, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
The place to be having this discussion is on the article's talk page, not here. And there, at least, I can object should anybody have the audacity to put bullets before each of my paragraphs. I am copying to there. Please continue, if at all, at Talk:Government debt. Paul Beardsell 14:44, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)