In the article, it says:
- ...received its first complete public performance on October 10, 1920 in Birmingham, with Appleby Matthews conducting.
I just wrote Albert Coates, in the course of which I looked at the Coates article in the Concise Grove, the Coates article on allclassical.com and then The Planets entry in Kenneth Thompson's A Dictionary of 20th Century Composers (Faber and Faber, 1973) (among several other irrelevant things) - all say that Coates conducted the first complete public performance of the piece (Thompson says at the Queen's Hall in London on November 15, 1920). Several websites seem to agree. But then I found the liner notes for the Hyperion disc with Colin Matthew's "Pluto" on it [1], which agrees with what we have in the article, and specifically mentions the Coates performance as the first in London. I'm not a Holst scholar, and don't know which version is correct.
So which is it? Coates seems to have support in numbers, but the Hyperion notes are recent, and may better reflect recent research. The fact that they mention the later Coates performance also makes me think it could be correct. Still, the person who wrote those notes could be mistaken if, for example, the Birmingham performance was planned but never happened, or if it was not in fact complete, or if it was not in fact in public.
I don't know which version of events is right, and I don't know how to resolve this. But I thought I'd note the conflict here in case anybody else has any ideas. --Camembert
Apparently there IS a "Earth, the Home of Man" that came out of somewhere... Anyone has any info about that one? Kieff 05:53, May 13, 2004 (UTC)
- According to who is there such a movement? There is an mp3 going around some of the file sharing networks with this title, but in fact it's just an incorrectly labelled "Mercury". --Camembert 14:24, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
The rest of the media
Why don't we have Saturn and Neptune on the media for downloa as well? — Kieff | Talk 04:11, May 31, 2005 (UTC)
- Maybe something is wrong with my browser, but I don't see the download links at all. Just non-existant infopages and links to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki --DooMDrat 10:38, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)
"Pluto: Lord of the Underworld"
An anon editor recently changed the part about Holst not writing a "Pluto" movement after its discovery to read:
- When Pluto was discovered in 1930, four years prior to Holst's death, Holst debated writing another movement to encompass the new planet. In the end he did, and named it Pluto - Lord of the Underworld.
I'm quite sure this is incorrect, so I've changed it back. Common knowledge, as all standard reference works reflect, is that Holst never wrote a "Pluto", nor showed any sign of doing so. Of course, if there's been recent scholarship which shows such a movement exists, then lets give a source and I'll be happy to be proved wrong.
I wonder if the edit was motivated by an mp3 which seems to be floating around some of the file sharing networks labelled "Pluto - Lord of the Underworld" and claiming to be by Holst. What that file is, I don't know (it's nothing I recognise; portentous synthesised-orchestra nonsense), but it's not what it claims to be. --Camembert 13:57, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
- The music is Pluto, God of the Underworld by Brad Spitz and Bryan Tari. It is on their THE PLANETS - 2000 and Beyond CD, and it is featured on the Patrick Stewart Narrates THE PLANETS epoch 2000 DVD. Personally, I like it much more than Matthews' version. --Ian-Miller 18:57, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Jazz Version?
Has any jazz combo or orchestra ever recorded an arrangement of the Planets? --82.41.110.120 14:08, October 28, 2005
Incorrect Heinlein Reference
The article said: "In addition, the "Mars" movement was used as the "Martian National Anthem" in Robert Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land.
This is not correct, though it is widely 'remembered' in SF fandom circles. The actual text from Stranger in a Strange Land says:
From Chapter XIX: Now, we realize you can't play Martian music, any more than a boy with a tin whistle can play a symphony. But you *can* play a symphony — 'The Nine Planets Symphony'. Grok it? I mean, 'Do you catch on?' Have the tape cut in at the beginning of the Mars movement; play that... or enough bars to let the theme be recognized.
Then from Chapter XX: The fortissimo tocsin of the "Mars" movement filled the room — the "War God" theme that startles even an audience expecting it.
"The Planets" is not a symphony, and its Mars movement does not begin fortissimo, nor with a tocsin. The piece Harshaw is referring to is fictional, though probably inspired by the existence of "The Planets". I modified the text to read:
(It is not true, however, that the "Mars" movement was used as the "Martian National Anthem" in Robert A. Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land — the piece cited in that work is a fictitious "Nine Planets Symphony" whose 'Mars' movement as described could not be Holst's "Mars" movement.)
Isn't it possible Heinlein just didn't know the correct musical terminology?
'The World in Union'
I have just added a short comment at the end of the first bullet point under 'The Planets in popular culture', regarding the use of the mid-section of Jupiter as the musical basis for 'The World in Union', the international anthem of the sport of Rugby Union.
--202.72.148.102 11:13, 27 December 2005 (UTC) ENKC, 27/12/2005, 7.12pm GMT + 8, Perth, Western Australia
Disorganization
When looking up The Planets, I noticed that all the program notes and commentary on the pieces are on Gustav Holst's biography page. Shouldn't they be on the actual entry for The Planets? It was hard for me to find the commentary.
possible additional references
Jupiter was quoted in an episode of The Simpsons, and parts of the closing to The Boondocks sound suspiciously like the opening to it.
National Geographic
Isn't the theme song for the National Geographic TV shows a bit from Jupiter? If so, should that be added here? Adam Bishop 05:47, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
Stranger in a Strange Land Comment
I've moved this comment of User:70.162.15.145 from the article for discussion here: John (Jwy) 04:31, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
- It is not true, however, that the "Mars" movement was used as the "Martian National Anthem" in Robert A. Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land — the piece cited in that work is a fictitious "Nine Planets Symphony" whose 'Mars' movement as described could not be Holst's "Mars" movement.
- Prove it. The only words and phrases given to describe the "Nine Planets Symphony" from "Stranger", which symphonic name is indeed fictional, are "fortissimo" which means quite simply "very loudly" and "tocsin", which means "a signal of alarm given by the ringing of a bell, and hence any warning or danger signal." Both of those definitions are taken from Wikipedia and other dictionary sources. Listening to the "Mars" movement from Holst's composition, it certainly spends a few seconds building up quietly, but then it immediately comes to the fore with a blatantly present theme that, should the word "tocsin" be applied with a liberal eye to the definition, does indeed resemble a tocsinal (word?) movement. - comment from User:70.162.15.145.
- Surely the clearest indication that Heinlein was not referring to Holst's suite is that the name of the piece given in the book is not the name of Holst's suite. Indeed, one would assume that a piece entitled, Nine Planets Symphony, would consist of nine parts not the seven parts of Holst's suite. Heinlein's work is set in a fictional future; it seems a bit of a reach to assume that just because a piece of music in that world is about planets that it must be Holst's suite, especially given the stated difference between that fictional work and Holst's suite. The burden of proof must surely lie with those that claim correspondence between the two.
Number of movements
I think that the "8th movement", Pluto, was not dealt with very well in the beginning of this entry. It is important to distinguish between that separate work and Holst's original (and, at the time, complete) work of 7 movements. Holst's 7-movement original is what people think of when they refer to the "The Planets". The "8th movement" composed by Colin Matthews certainly deserves mention, but it seems more appropriate to include it strictly as a piece inspired by Holst's creation rather than a part of the original.
In light of the above, I believe it is misleading and contradictory to state in the introduction that "The Planets" is "an orchestral suite by the English composer Gustav Holst" while also saying that "The suite has 8 movements (formerly seven)..." Either "The Planets" is 7 movements and is by Holst, or "The Planets" is 8 movements and by Holst and Matthews. I think that popular perception is the deciding vote here, and that popular perception is that "The Planets" is Holst's 7-movement work.
I have changed the beginning of the entry slightly to say that "The Planets" has 7 movements. Mention of Colin Matthews' work is retained later in the entry.
Orchestration
The orchestration (list or paragraph of ALL instruments scored for (the version for large orchestra of course)) should be present in the article. A Wang (talk/contrb.) 20:20, 11 August 2006 (UTC) (Number of flutes, oboes, clarinets, bassoons, horns, trumpets, trombones, tuba, percussion, organ, choir, and strings.) I do hear a high-pitched tuba, which should be a euphonium. A Wang (talk/contrb.) 00:51, 14 August 2006 (UTC) 00:52, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Okay, I got it. 4 flutes (3rd and 4th = piccolo, 4th = alto flute), 3 oboes (3rd = bass oboe), English horn, 3 clarinets, bass clarinet, 3 bassoons, contrabassoon, 6 horns, 4 trumpets, 3 trombones, 2 tubas, percussion (bass drum, cymbals, glockenspiel, gong, orchestra bells, snare drum, tambourine, triangle, xylophone), 2 timpani, 2 harps, celesta, organ, strings, and women's chorus A Wang (talk/contrb.) 01:10, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Anyone disagree with the orchestration? I am beginning to doubt it. I am sure there is a euphonium. (or two.) Then, I checked the euphonium page. There is a euphonium. A Wang (talk/contrb.) 13:45, 14 August 2006 (UTC) 13:47, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
I just re-did the orchestration with direct refference to the score. There is a Tenor Tuba in Bb, a euphamism for Euphonium.Justin Tokke 04:56, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
- 7-November-2006: (2 months later) Someone removed "euphonium" on 4-Nov-2006, and I re-added 3 days later as "Tenor Tuba in B-flat (also known as Euphonium)" since the mention of euphonium has been a topic. -Wikid77 14:23, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Insufficient detail about recording
How useful is it to include in the list of recordings one with no conductor or other details apart from the orchestra? IMHO, either someone should provide more detail (e.g. release date, label etc) or it should be deleted. Jon Rob 09:47, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Well, sure it could and should have more info, but the samples are useful either way. ☢ Ҡi∊ff⌇↯ 10:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Umm -- how about a new entry in the discography: "unknown orchestra, unknown conductor, unknown label, unknown date"? Sorry, that was sarcastic. Anyway, I've removed the entry for the Philharmonia orchestra, since ArkivMusic shows at least four different currently available recordings of the Planets by the Philharmonia orchestra (and there are many others thar are out of print), and it isn't clear which (if any) of these are meant. Grover cleveland 13:51, 12 October 2006 (UTC)