Hyacinth

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Hello, you've reached User:Hyacinth, Mikhail Abraham, please edit yourself at the bottom this page. I normally respond quickly on your talk pages, but could be vacationing for a month, you never know.

If you do not sign messages I have no way of replying to you on your talk page. Please do not carry on conversations with other users on my talk page. That is why you all have talk pages. Thanks!

My user name is a reference to Hyacinth (mythology) rather than Hyacinth Bucket.

Archives

Do not leave messages in archive as I am not notified automatically. Leave a message on the bottom of this page.

Wikipedia:Categorization

Please see: Wikipedia_talk:Categorization#.22An_article_on_a_subject_should_be_in_a_category_of_the_same_name..22 I hope you would add more explanation to this. Thanks! JesseW 01:28, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Degree (disambiguation) and Degree

Thanks for your comments. Please can you adjust these in the way you suggest as and when you are ready. It occurs to me that as I'm tidying links to all the degree articles, I should take these articles into account at the same time. Thanks again, Ian Cairns 00:36, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Article Licensing

I've "started" the Free the Rambot Articles Project which aims to get users to release all of their contributions to the U.S. state, county, and city articles under the CC-by-sa 1.0 and 2.0 license (at minimum) or into the public ___domain if they prefer. A secondary goal is to get those users to release ALL of their edits for ALL articles. I've personally chosen to multi-license all of the rambot and Ram-Man contributions under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike License so that other projects, such as WikiTravel, can use our articles. I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all your contributions (or at minimum those on the geographic articles) so that we can keep most of the articles available under the multi-license. Many users use the {{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}} template (or even {{MultiLicensePD}} for public ___domain) on their user page, but there are other templates for other options at Template messages/User namespace. If you only prefer using the GFDL, I understand, but I thought I'd at least ask, just in case, since the number of your edits is in the top 100. If you do want to do it, simply just copy and paste one of the above two templates into your user page and it will allow us to track those users who have done it. For example:

Option 1

I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:

OR

Option 2

I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions to any [[U.S. state]], county, or city article as described below:

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public ___domain (which many people do or don't like to do, see Wikipedia:Multi-licensing), you could replace {{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}} with {{MultiLicensePD}} -- Ram-Man 22:41, Nov 25, 2004 (UTC)

Image copyrights

Hi. I noticed that some images that you've uploaded are lacking the copyright details, can you please add them? As far as I understand the system, impilicitically the images are copyrighted to you at the moment, which would technically prevent others from editing them (excluding fair use). See Wikipedia:Copyrights. If you want them to be freely copied, just put {{pd}} on them. Nice contributions anyway. :) --kooo 10:21, Nov 28, 2004 (UTC)

Unverified images

Hi! Thanks for uploading the following images:

I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know its copyright status? (You can use {{gfdl}} if you release it under the GNU Free Documentation License, {{fairuse}} if you claim fair use, etc.) If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know at my talk page where you got the images and I'll tag them for you. Thanks so much. [[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk, automation script)]] 22:03, Dec 10, 2004 (UTC)

P.S. You can help tag other images at User:Yann/Untagged_Images. Thanks again.

Missoula Entry

Hi Hyancinth. Just wanted to let you know I posted a comment to the Talk:Missoula, Montana talk page, reviving a question that came up some months ago. Hope we can talk it out. - Luke Powell 02:39, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Hello

Umm ok this is the nuttiest way I've had to try and talk to you but hey it works... Micky I wanted to give you your x-mes presents but I'm going to helena on tuesday but I'll be back for first night, sooo you should give me a call and maybe we can ring in the new year togeather for a bit... ohhh and I can take a few minutes to hop in the sack with your boyfriend. ok I'll check this later to see if you got my message. ~from Janette

Homophobic Vandalism

I have reason to believe that the following are all sockpuppets of each other

User:148.136.141.172, User:Rienzo, User:Baffinisland, User:Lady Tara, User:Nasse

I believe that one of them recently vandalised your user page

if you wish to add evidence to the arbitration against any of them, you can do so at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Rienzo/Evidence

CheeseDreams 01:52, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Surrealism

Please check history before making pronouncements. Thank you. Stirling Newberry 19:54, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I am afraid I find your input so far on this to be both rude and unhelpful. Stirling Newberry 20:11, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

That was rude of me and short tempered, I am currently involved in two editor wars and so was inclined to be curt. I do fine work and I should be giving you the benefit of every doubt rather than being snappish.

The problem on Surrealism is very much that there is an active - the word "cult" has been used, but prefer to think of it as a subculture - that thinks of "Surrealism" as Breton's system for social revolution, and thus desires "Surrealism" the page to conform to dogma, rather than the documentable use and influence of the wider movement. I am currently trying to get the article up to the full spectrum of information on Surrealism. Stirling Newberry 20:22, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Modular arithmetic

Thank you for your addition. It had been me who removed the applications part. Now, I am all for applications, and am happy with your recent addition. The reason for my original deletion was that the article had become a huge mess, and among other things the applications section had been inserted right in the middle of the article, before the main idea of the article was even developed :( So I just reverted the article to a much earlier version.

I am not sure I like the place of your external link, looks kind of unnatural, also in that subsection thing. I don't know how to put it better though. Do you think there is a way to put the external link at the very bottom, and make a footnote to it in the applications section? Maybe this is not a good idea, but still, I would like to ask you to take a look again at that external link and see if it can be put in a better way (better place). User:Oleg Alexandrov 18:52, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing my signature. A tilda makes a big difference. Oleg Alexandrov 22:40, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Gay Template

Please vote your opinion of template:gay. Thanks. Apollomelos 19:34, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

One Question

Are you a fan of Keeping Up Appearances, i just had to ask.--User:Boothy443 | comhrÚ 11:24, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Ahh i see, no gay connotation indented, i figured it was either that or the flower/bush, i am not to well versed in mythology that far off the surface. Well anyway, mind the pedestrian.--User:Boothy443 | comhrÚ 11:36, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Digital Gay Bashing

The digital gay bashing you've received is shameful. Where do these people find the time for their hatred? --AStanhope 17:46, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Surrealism

[1] [2]

I've reached my limit with these two. They behave well enough to avoid sanction and then go back to their nonsense. Stirling Newberry 21:18, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. Stirling Newberry 01:13, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Islamic music

Hullo Hyacinth,

I'm a musical ignoramus who nevertheless enjoys listening to Arabic, Persian, Afghan, and Indian pop music. All of those are areas that you would probably include under Islamic music. There are, indeed, significant similarities between the musical styles and, I understand, the underlying musical structures (the maqam, the raga, the dastgah).

However, I'm somewhat troubled by the category "Islamic music". I can see the various styles as being linked both by musical contacts BEFORE the Arabs erupted out of Arabia, and by contacts since then ... contacts facilitated by conquest and trade. But I'm not sure that I would describe the music as Islamic per se, given that Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, and Parsis were all playing the same kind of secular music. Describing it as Islamic strikes me as somehow just OFF or WRONG.

Except Sufi music, but even that employed widespread "Central Asian" or "Silk Road" styles for Islamic ends.

Also, the usual Wikipedia spelling is Qur'an, not Koran.

Perhaps it would be better to retitle the article as Islam and music? Or write an article about the commonalities in Silk Road or Central Asian music?

I don't have strong opinions about these matters -- nor do I have the requisite background in music theory to understand web pages like this one:

[3]

on Persian musical theory. Let's discuss these things -- and perhaps drag in a few of the sensible Muslims on Wikipedia, like Ifaqeer or Mustafaa. I've worked with them on several Islamic articles and they're both reasonable people. Zora 05:48, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Hyacinth, that quote relates to ARAB music, not to your so-called Muslim music. I don't feel that you've really engaged with my concerns.

Would you describe European music as "Christian" music? It was mostly written by Christians, and a significant portion of it was intended for church services. But that doesn't mean that European music is necessarily "Christian".

I like to listen to Indian filmi. Muslim or Hindu music? The categories just don't apply. It's INDIAN music. Zora 18:43, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I ended up spending HOURS rewriting the article to make it clear that there's a distinction between regional musical styles and devotional music. I added links to sites with sound samples.

I also deleted most of your writing on the Sufis. There was so much in it that was wrong or misleading. There are MANY Sufi orders, not just one, Sufism coalesced rather than being founded in one swell foop, the Mevlevi rituals are not representative of all Sufi rituals, and naats are Punjabi rather than Turkish, as implied by your description of the whirling dervishes.

I set up a link to an unwritten article on Sufi music, which might be worth doing in detail. There would be room there to talk about regional musical styles (Punjabi, Persian, Kurdish, Egyptian, Berber, Turkish, Albanian, etc.) and also about the spread of the various orders, some of which were purely local and some of which spanned continents. Each order would have its own characteristic rituals and musical forms. If you want to write about this, I'd recommend a lot of research and working with Ifaqeer, who IS a Sufi (though he's very quiet about it, in his modest way).

I really don't like being at loggerheads with you, since you strike me as an intelligent and sincere editor, and also because you know a whole heck of a lot more about music theory than I do. There's a lot more to be said technically about the modes and the melismatic vocal styles of Middle Eastern and South Asian music, and I don't even have the vocabulary for it. I hope I haven't pissed you off, and that we can work together productively. Zora 03:00, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hello

You’re not the only one to get bashed on Wikipedia. Check out my new evil twin Apollomelos2 who is apparently communist, courtesy on Noah Peters. lol Later Apollomelos 00:57, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Gay templates

Heya...do you think there's anything in Template:Gay that can be usefully reorganized and put into Template:LGBT instead? It strikes me that they have a very high potential of duplicating or competing with each other. I'm all for gay topics on Wikipedia, being in the club myself and all, but I also think Template:Gay, viewed objectively, does a pretty lousy job of what it's trying to do. On merit, LGBT is definitely the much better of the two...and the more appropriately titled, for that matter.Bearcat 19:57, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

sawt is sout?

Do you know if the sawt referenced (to Toumas) as a secular genre at Arab music is the same thing as the sout referred to at music of Kuwait and music of Bahrain? If so, I don't know which transliteration is better, but they should be standardized. If not (or in any case), good work on your recent improvements to that and Muslim music! Tuf-Kat 22:23, Feb 1, 2005 (UTC)

I'll change the uses to sawt then, as my reference uses some odd spellings in other cases, and googling reveals more likely relevant hits for sawt than sout. Tuf-Kat 00:16, Feb 2, 2005 (UTC)

Salah, Adhan as revised by H. 2/2/05

I had to revert some of your changes to salah because putting the muezzin in the fard sentence was ambiguous (nah, plain wrong). The remaining ones were kinda good.

Actually, work badly needed on salah is to merge its content with the prayer section of the Five pillars of Islam article. But if that's not your cup of tea, somebody will.

(Good old elpincha 21:28, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC))

Categorization

Greetings! I've left a few notices about regarding categorization of the music articles, but I'm not sure where to put them to get anyone's attention; currently my thoughts are sitting at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music#Categorization. Since you seem to be on a categorization push yourself, I'd appreciate your thoughts. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 02:41, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Music clips

Hello Hyacinth

I'm undertaking a new music project and would invite your comments on my talk page. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 21:27, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

user 155.84.57.253

Hi, I noticed that you banned 155.84.57.253 for vandalism. This IP address has made many uncontested edits, so it would be nice if you could specify which edit(s) in particular provoked the action. Thanks, --Paraphelion 17:41, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the lookup, I was not aware of that page. I don't know how anyone has the will to police those areas for vandalism. The same user has made what I think are some fairly idiotic edits to List of ethnic stereotypes. --Paraphelion 22:47, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedia templates

Please stop listing template talk pages in Category:Wikipedia templates. You've misunderstood what that category is for, which is for pages realted to templates on Wikipedia. Templates themselves should not need to be categorized. - Please help me clean up by undoing your edits. -- Netoholic @ 23:32, 2005 Feb 18 (UTC)

Because there are hundreds of templates. It is impractical to categorize them when we have this mechanism. -- Netoholic @ 05:25, 2005 Feb 19 (UTC)

But that is one list, not a categorization (many lists?). Wouldn't it be useful to have a list of all music related templates? Hyacinth 18:20, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Sure a -list- is fine, and very common. Don't confuse a category with a list though. For your music templates, create a page somewhere and list the templates, just don't categorize them. Hopefully the distinction makes sense. -- Netoholic @ 03:33, 2005 Feb 20 (UTC)

vandalism?

I found someone has removed the content of article Musical composition. As you were the last to edit it before that, I hope you will fix it, if it was not meant to be like this. --Blondel 12:09, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Good work

Your recent edits on History of music were excellent. Good job :) →Raul654 23:18, Feb 19, 2005 (UTC)

Template messages - Informational

I see you've created Wikipedia:Template messages/Informational containing templates for Indian classical music and American roots music. I'm wondering whether these templates shouldn't actually be listed at Wikipedia:Navigational templates instead ({{Americanrootsmusic}} already is), since their main purpose is ease of navigation between related articles. See also my comment at Wikipedia talk:Template messages#Navigational templates creeping into table. - dcljr 00:38, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Pages like this should be under the appropriate Wikiproject only. Wikipedia:Template messages and its subpages are for more genereic template types, used across many subject areas. -- Netoholic @ 03:35, 2005 Feb 20 (UTC)

Native American music

Nice work on Native American music and Pueblo music. I added a bit more after noticing your source is the same author as a book I recently picked up. Mine's a bit newer than yours, but he doesn't do a tribal breakdown, except for Arapaho music as an example. I'm not sure why you kept the Zuni and Hopi redirects in the infobox, but I have put them in parentheses to save space and added Arapaho and Navajo links. Is this agreeable to you? Tuf-Kat 04:17, Feb 21, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the pleasant greeting

Nice to get your friendly welcome message Hyacinth. It certainly has made me feel a lot friendlier towards this wikithing.

I'm learning how to suppress my outrage at some of the absolute tosh written as authoritative knowledge, and perhaps even begining to enjoy seeing things from other perspectives. Although I must confess i do have a bit of trouble biting my lip (or should that be keyboard) at some of the more american centric entries - the cowboy/cowhand issue is a case in point.

Hopefully I'll end up a well rounded wikiperson.

I have just spent some time trying to clarify some of the Arts related definitions - the subject is close to my heart (and livelihood) in particular 'visual art' and 'fine art' there was a lot of guesswork going on on these pages. then when i got here I noticed that there is a broader issue to do with the arts definitions. not suprising really it is one of the most misunderstood words - if indeed anyone really has an understanding of it.

part of the problem stems from the fact that art seems to mean seperate things for consumers and producers. it has a specialist proffesional language, perhaps even many, for the producers within the various disciplines, these languages are as important to production as a plumbers or a computer programmers. but these terms are used differently by the consumers such as the historians or the critics, who have a professional language of their own, and then again the terms are used even more hazily by the interested onlookers or art appreciators. I hope that the few changes that I have made are helpfull. It has made me try to map the landscape of these tricky relationships, perhaps when ive made sense of it ill be able to help iron out some of the really bad mismatches.

There is a real reluctance in the art pages to allow for overlap. for example; the term 'performing arts' does have a specific meaning, but many performing art forms are also visual art forms.

pah... look im sorry to labour this on my first message to you so ill go away and try to bring some clarity to the subject, a little bit at a time.

take care.

DavidP 04:02, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

European Classical Music

After some thought, I am with your decision to label certain traditions "European", though the more usual phrase for European is "European art music", with proper placement on the disambiguation page, all should be well for the reader looking for "classical music".

Best

Stirling Newberry 23:07, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Myth article

You "unreverted" the Myth article because you claim that no explanation was given on the talk page. I already explained that CS Lewis is not considered notable and that the only reason Ungtss is listing that there is because of the particular religious spin he wants to put on things, to go along with his longstanding attempt to put religion and Creationism dogma on the Deluge (mythology) article. You are playing right into the hands of someone who admits his only goal here is to advance Creationism over the so-called "arrogant pseudo-intellectualism" of scientists and mythologists. But I went and added even more explanation to the page, but of course I'm sure that the person harassing me there is going to cause more trouble. DreamGuy 04:36, Feb 27, 2005 (UTC)

Cantillation

While Mesopotamian music may have cantillation, the Cantillation article itself had nothing about Mesopotamian cantillation in it. See also is generally reserved for topics related to or which expand on information given in the article. Jayjg ^(talk) 19:54, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Template:History by time period

Please stop adding this template to articles. It is deeply and irrevocably Eurocentric. - SimonP 04:02, Mar 2, 2005 (UTC)

I don't think that list is meant to be exhaustive, and an exhaustive list would have hundreds of eras. - SimonP 04:08, Mar 2, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, though sometimes prehistoric only means "without writing" so some periods of prehistory can also come after periods of history. - SimonP 04:19, Mar 2, 2005 (UTC)

Also note that Template:History of Europe has existed for some time, so Template:European history by time period is not needed. - SimonP 04:21, Mar 2, 2005 (UTC)

Template:History by continent footer is great. I'm surprised it didn't already exist. - SimonP 05:26, Mar 2, 2005 (UTC)

How to report/deal with link farming?

The anonymous user 4.62.127.90 just made a whole long string of edits to various articles to link to different pages all on one site. It's apparent to me that this is nothing more than an attempt to link farm to gett traffic to his own sites. In the past I have removed links on other articles to pages that contained the same copyright notice. I am concerned that we are being gamed here, but don;t know the appropriate place to report this/bring it up for discussion. I thought I'd ask you to see if you had suggestions. DreamGuy 04:16, Mar 2, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your response on my talk page. DreamGuy 04:39, Mar 2, 2005 (UTC)

Maracatu references

Hi Hyacinth-- just letting you know that I've put back in the references that were added to the maracatu page because I know those sources and they are legitimate. The book does have an article on maracatu and the Web page is good. In fact I'm glad the person took the trouble to add them. Thanks for the vigilance, though! Mona-Lynn 08:15, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

European Classical Music

tell me if you need help arguing for it. I fear that like most "decentrification" proposals it will meet with resistence. Stirling Newberry 12:54, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The Power of Wikipedia

I've been a user with a login for a long time, and finally the other day I saw an obvious error in an entry (hum) and decided I would quickly fix it. I thought I could do a better job, but due to time constraints I just chopped out the error.

This morning I came to see if I could improve it, and found Hyacinth had redone it very well. I touch an article, someone notices, and improves upon it.

I love this place, and I think I finally "get it".

--Douglips 17:02, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Media: A Hard Day's Night modal frame.PNG Tag

Yes, I agree. When I first started, the difference between {{gfdl}} and {{PD-user}} wasn't apparent to me, but now I see that they are different. I see you have already changed the tag, so I'll go back through my edits to make sure all of same type of mistakes are corrected. Sorry about that.

While we're on the subject, are all governmental images (in the U.S.) released into the public ___domain? I know that all federal works are, but how about images made by states, counties, and cities/towns? It would seem like they would be, but one never knows... Thanks, Bratsche 19:11, Mar 5, 2005 (UTC)

Ok. I think the fair use tag is used only when an image is copyrighted. Is this the case with the image? I noticed you had a couple images of music, etc. If you don't claim a copyright, then a GFDL would be more approriate, as you orginally stated. I'll tag them for you, if you want. Just let me know. Bratsche 19:27, Mar 5, 2005 (UTC)

Well, the fair use template states that "the image is copyrighted". But if the song itself is copyrighted, then probably the actual music is too. Is that the case with "A Hard Day's Work" ? Bratsche^(talk) 20:12, Mar 5, 2005 (UTC)

Music pictures

I'm sorry about replacing those music pictures-- I really should have asked first. I guess you can do whatever you want with the old ones. And I'm going to go through the new ones in the next day or two and add credit to you. --humbly, bdesham 03:40, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Pitch

Pitch is a widely used term in the engineering field in applications that have nothing to do with music, e.g. in speech compression, digital speech, and speech encryption. Having the only listing for it be to an article which is mostly about the musical meaning is completely implausible. I will write a separate "pitch (sound) article and put it back in the disambig page. Noel (talk) 13:59, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Music School

Have you studied music through any music programs? If so, where and how did you enter it? I want to study music, but I'm afraid that since I did not receive any form of formal classical study I will not be accepted. Jaberwocky6669 23:41, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)

I did not take any music classes in High school though I wanted to. I took 10 years of guitar lessons, but I finally realized that I wanted to play another instrument. I didn't advance too well with the guitar lol. I think I want to play a bowed instrument like a chello or violin.

Intervals

I'd like your feedback on the Intervals entry before I take any further action. Noetica has properly taken me to task for substantially revising an article which was on the request-for-discussion list, plus made a number of valid editorial comments. Before I make any more changes to the page, though, I'd like to hear from you, since you made the RFC request. --Wahoofive 06:41, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)