Talk:V (programming language)
Latest comment: 2 years ago by Sirfurboy in topic Advert template
Advert template
Just saw the edit summary: "Where is the content written like an advertisement?" Well here is a meaningless marketing like statement for a start:
Translating DOOM from C to V and building it takes less than a second.
building it on what hardware? compared to what? what secondary sources benchmark this? I haven't read all this page yet, but statements like that do sound rather "advert like". Thank you for your attempts to improve the article though. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 17:27, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
- Agree – things like "it does this so fast!" or "it does this in this really unique and revolutionary way that deserves an expansive mention!" are largely subjective and do not belong in an encyclopedic article.
- I, too, though, commend you for attempting to improve the draft. You're getting somewhere. LVDP01 (talk) 20:14, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks Sirfurboy for the input. I can see your perspective, but aren't the 2nd and 3rd statements offering proof of the statement above it? Each link, is placed to verify the validity of the statement. Thus it seems like we are caught in a circular catch-22. The section is C translation. Simply stating that, offers no context to the reader. The statements below are expanding on what that means in respect to features of the V language. Thus, "V can translate your entire C project and offer you the safety, simplicity, and compilation speed-up (via modules)." But now is that statement merely a claim or a fact? Therefore the next statement and link are proof of the claim, "Translating DOOM from C to V and building it takes less than a second." Furthermore, V is not selling anything by this. There is no product. That it can quickly translate a C program to V, is a proven statement, that is backed up by visual proof.
- Don't get me wrong, I'm perfectly fine with us removing statements to not look like advertising or promotional content, or rewording statements with flowery sales-like language. But worried that removal of key explanatory statements, can lead to the next editor taking a position that statements are mere claims without merit or proof.
- "What secondary sources benchmark this?" A primary source was used to show visual proof, along with secondary sources, in the context of capability to translate C projects to V. As is it can be interpreted that you are objecting to speed or type of hardware, the statement was removed. The statement of fact, on the capability of the language to do such a translation remains.
- LVDP01, thank you for giving input as well. You mentioned a few things. "it does this so fast!" or "it does this in this really unique and revolutionary way that deserves an expansive mention!". I'm trying to narrow down actual specifics, so that we can come to a consensus as to what language is objectionable or acceptable. Can you please refer to specific lines in the draft that you might object to and give an explanation. Would greatly appreciate it.
- Based on the comments you both have made so far, anything that could reasonably give an appearance of being written like an advertisement or promotional has been removed. Additional secondary sources have been added.
- Wukuendo (talk) 02:41, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
- So for secondary sourcing, what I would like to see is someone who has objectively compared like for like compilation between, say, a C compiler and code compiled in V. I did look last night and found a 2019 article, which is a bit dated for this subject, which did give some figures, but they too appeared to be just quoting the documentation which says "V compiles between ≈100k and 1.2 million lines of code per second per CPU core (without hardware optimization)." Again, no comparison with other languages nor details about the CPU core. There are benchmarks out there. for instance,[1], but these are WP:PRIMARY and really not very clear to a reader. They are independent, so that is something, but isn't there a paper somewhere, or at least a trade press article, where someone has put V through its paces to see how it performs? If not, then maybe just say that optimising speed is a design goal, and leave it at that. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 15:17, 14 March 2023 (UTC)