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Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals/Archive/March 2007

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Goldenrowley (talk | contribs) at 06:11, 20 March 2007 (archive Papuan). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Latest comment: 18 years ago by Goldenrowley

March 2007 stub proposal archives

Papuan languages

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was create Category:Papuan language stubs.

We already have several stub types for different language families, but not this one. There are several hundred of these languages, most of which will unfortunately remain stubs for a long time to come. Some may have already been incorrectly given the stub template for Austronesian languages. --Ptcamn 22:37, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Are you saying there's several hundred stub articles at present (or at least, over 60), or just that there's severeal hundred such languages? Alai 22:39, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
FWIW, Alai, there are hundreds of articles already - not sure how many of them are stubs, but at a guess most of them are. May be worth running this past whoever cameup with that "two-letter code language stub template" system, though. Grutness...wha? 00:22, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
I believe there are enough stubs based on the number in the language category, but that's just a guess. I'll get on counting it. Aelfthrytha 13:45, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
To answer my own question, from the Feb. db dump, I can find exactly 60 tagged with lang-stub, and under Category:Papuan languages. So, support. Alai 01:15, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
{{pa-lang-stub}}? Owch. Alai 00:43, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Do they speak that oddly in Pittsburgh...? :/ Grutness...wha? 01:04, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
I can archive the category as a consensus to create. However, I cannot with a conscious archive "pa-language-stub" as a clear consensus. Goldenrowley 06:08, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

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Thai-geo subtypes

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was create.

Parent is now oversized, and as the country has over 70 first-order subdivisions, those seem unlikely to be viable in the short term. Instead, I suggest upmerged provincial templates, feeding into the above allegedly generally-recognised regions of Thailand. Alai 19:36, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Generally support/I question naming of Isan is that a good idea? Goldenrowley 20:29, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
That's what the {featured) article is called. Alai 22:37, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
"Northeast Thailand" is an alternative name, according to regions of Thailand.It looks like Isan is a regional name, based on the language and can be spelled several ways. Goldenrowley 23:57, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
If there's a case for a different name, I'd suggest addressing that at the article in the first instance. If we have a {{Isan-geo-stub}}, then also having a template or redirect at {{Northeast-Thailand-geo-stub}} might be sensible, though in the first instance I was thinking in terms of having only the upmerged provincial templates. Alai 01:22, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Ok I am in consensus. Goldenrowley 04:32, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

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Category:Irish sportspeople stubs

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was create.
Oversized parent, these would hit 133. Alai 06:21, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Support would also be a parent for Category:Republic of Ireland football biography stubsbut what about Category:Northern Irish football biography stubs which is a subcat of a subcat of Category:Irish people stubs. Waacstats 00:41, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
If you can tell me exactly what the scope of Category:Irish people is (other than "deeply muddled"), I might be able to answer that. Alai 05:20, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

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Euro political party sub-types

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was do not create.

I realize we normally avoid semi-arbitrary conglomerations of countries, but these two do have permcats (though with stray capitalisation, which makes me wonder just how well-thought out they actually are). Otherwise, we might look at carving up the continent by UN geoscheme sub-region. Alai 06:11, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Possibly the Scandanavian one, but a quick glance at Category:Europe political party stubs convinces me that there is some considerable undersorting into the existing subtypes. In any case, the former Yugoslav one should be considered only after all other options have been exhausted. Caerwine Caer’s whines 07:14, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Oppose. I don't see the relevance in the "Scandinavia" group (without going into that the defintion of this groups is still a bit tricky). Scandinavians understand each other peoples' languages and have similar cultures but that's about it. There is next to no policy coordination between the Nordic countries and no formal bonds between the parties either. The Nordic Council never had any power and it will never get it. Valentinian T / C 15:17, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

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Bird sub-types

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was 3 creates: Galliformes, Anseriformes, and Falconiformes. Others do no create..

Parent is oversized again. Several of these have been proposed previously: I include them here for the sake of completeness, and since since several of these are either-or. Alai 05:24, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

  • Well, if we're going by order, then bird of prey is out (especially since falconiformes would cover much of it) - it could easily be hijacked by the star trek project if we weren't careful, too! :) Mind you, that would also rule out anatidae and anatoidea since IIRC they're anseriformes. Given that, I'd go with Galliformes, Anseriformes, and Falconiformes. Keeping to the order level might be appropriate for a while, at least. Grutness...wha? 11:22, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

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Butterfly sub-types

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was create.

Parent is at exactly 800 stubs at present. Alai 05:13, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Wow I can't beleive there's so many butterflies ... support! Goldenrowley 20:25, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

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{{Senegal-footy-bio-stub}} / Category:Senegalese football biography stubs

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was create.
As the number of stubs in the Category:Senegalese footballers category has reached the consensus tally of 60, I will make and populate the mentioned template and category. Poulsen 11:42, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

It was probably the right thing to do, but waiting for the approval period is standard. Please hold off next time as a just in case sort of thing - there have been a few times when I'm sure and then a user points out something I haven't thought of yet. Aelfthrytha 13:51, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
I can't promise you that, in the case of football biography stubs. They have so concrete a structure, that the only real task is counting to 60. Poulsen 16:34, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

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Euro-FC sub-types

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was create.

Parent is oversized, these seem to be viable. (Category:Yugoslav football clubs is next closest at 47.) Alai 05:45, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Wow, that thar's a lot of undersorting. Alai 05:50, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

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{{art-historian-stub}} / Category:Art historian stubs

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was create.

I propose this to subcategory to help differentiate the 8 page list of historians, and also to eliminate double stubbing (art and historian). I checked and over 60. People put them in the generic "art category" a lot. Goldenrowley 19:07, 3 March 2007 (UTC) (Forgive my momentary lapse of impeccable English) Goldenrowley 19:09, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

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Gulf of Chiriqui

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was not really a stub question, but GR adding the article to Wikipedia for Seacritter..
{{Panama-geo-stub}}/ Gulf of Chiriqui

The Gulf of Chiriqui is a unique part of Panama. This Gulf also encompasses Coiba National Park and Golfo de Chiriqui National Park. There are many islands in this Gulf. Along with the islands of Coiba National Park there is also Islas Secas, Los Ladrones, Parilla and Montuoso. Montuoso is the farthest island from Panama in this Gulf. During certain seasons, you can even spot Galapagos seals on Montuoso. The Gulf of Chiriqui also includes one of the most famous fishing areas, Hannibal Banks. Here the sky is the limit as to the size of the fish you can catch. (Seacritter 20:20, 3 March 2007 (UTC))

If that's a stub you wish to create, and your account is too new to allow you to do so yourself, you're probably looking for WP:AFC. Alai 21:07, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

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{{IR-stub}}

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was sent to SFD for deletion.
Stub for use by Wikipedia:WikiProject Irish Republicanism. One Night In Hackney303 00:41, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

What does Infrared have to with Irish Republicanism? A definite need for a rename to something way less ambiguous at a minimum. Caerwine Caer’s whines 01:07, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Could be redirected to finance-stub, since I doubt there would be enough stubs on Inland Revenue for their own stub type. More seriously, this should definitely be deleted - republicanism in Ireland is to do with irish politicvs and irish history, and as such either an Ireland-poli-stub or Ireland-hist-stub would be the way to go. We don't have stubs for republicanism movements in other countries, and there's no reason why we should start with one that is a likely edit-war magnet like the Irish one. Grutness...wha? 04:14, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
delete for being ambiguous. Monni 05:41, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

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{{criminology-stub}} / {{criminal-justice-stub}}

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was No consensus reached..
I've been working on criminology topics, as one of my areas of focus on Wikipedia. Despite my slow efforts, our coverage of this topic remains poor. I just created an article on the highly influential work, The Division of Labour in Society by Emile Durkheim, which is a classic work that is covered in basic-level criminology (and sociology) university courses. I'm surprised that this article did not exist yet. A few months back, I also found that no article existed on gun violence. (this is still a stub) As I keep working on this topic, I'm sure to find many more such missing articles. When I create them, I'd like to tag them as a stub, with something more specific than {{crime-stub}}. This stub category isn't quite appropriate for articles like The Division of Labour in Society, which is a hodgepodge category. The same situation applies to our coverage of criminal justice topics, which deal with the system/response aspects of crime such as corrections (prisons and other forms of punishment) and law enforcement. The {{crime-stub}} category includes numerous articles on correctional facilities (e.g. Sullivan Correctional Facility, Sugamo Prison, Ogdensburg Correctional Facility, to name a few). At this point, I'm pretty much the WikiProject, and hope you will cut me some slack on the "good number of stub articles" requirement. I think many of these stub articles don't exist yet. Stub categories that are more specific than "crime" would help me (and others) keep track of articles and work on criminology and criminal justice topics. --Aude (talk) 19:21, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I see that we have {{prison-stub}}, which helps. It still would help to have something between {{crime-stub}} and {{prison-stub}}. "Crime" is just too broad, and sorting things into more specific stub categories such as {{criminal-justice-stub}} and {{criminology-stub}} would help me enormously. --Aude (talk) 19:26, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
There's already {{law-enforcement-stub}}, {{criminal-law-stub}}, {{forensics-stub}} and {{criminologist-stub}} in addition to the aforementioned {{prison-stub}}. (Not to mention {{crime-bio-stub}} and {{crime-org-stub}}.) With only ~450 crime stubs and apparently a fair degree of undersorting (which sadly is not that unusual for stub categories), I'm inclined to be skeptical of the desirability of either proposed stub without some indication that there are the normal amount stubs for creating a new stub type. Caerwine Caer’s whines 21:26, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
{{criminologist-stub}} could be merged into {{criminology-stub}}. {{law-enforcement-stub}}, {{forensics-stub}}, and {{prison-stub}} would be subcategories of {{criminal-justice-stub}}. If really necessary, I could probably find 30-60 stubs to create for each... the topic is that underrepresented. But don't have the time to do that now, and it's better to do them more gradually. And such arbitrary requirements are just that... arbitrary. For now, I just won't bother tagging them as stubs, because lumping all these together under {{crime-stub}}, especially for criminology topics, is not useful for people working on the articles. --Aude (talk) 21:49, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
I think the first task is to sort the crime stub articles into the 5 (or more) existing categories, then see how many are have left over, since Carewine mentioned there are 450 undersorted crime stubs, a good sort may clean it right up into good condition again? Goldenrowley 05:03, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

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{{China-geo-stub}} further split, Alai solution

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was East China, Southwest China, North China, Northeast China, Anhui, Guangdong, and Zhejiang geo stubs all proposed. No clear outcome..
We've already split off South Central China geography stubs into a category which contains five templates for the provinces in the region, and that's done something to reduce the PRC geography stubs. However, the main cat is still at five pages - slightly less than 1,000 stubs. I propose furthering the Alai solution by adding four more categories: East China geography stubs, Southwest China geography stubs, North China geography stubs, and Northeast China geography stubs. Only the Northwest region is not ready for a split - for all of the others I simply stopped counting at 65, and I stopped at letter "L" so there would be quite a bit remaining. This would save a lot of work down the road and get the category under control. Along with that, I propose making the Anhui, Guangdong, and Zhejiang geography stubs subcategories of the relevant regions. Aelfthrytha 13:03, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

  • Sounds reasonable. With any luck, it may also be a step on the way to alleviating the ongoing "mainland" bickering. Grutness...wha? 00:14, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Support. (Eponymous support even, I suppose.) This is clearly growing quite quickly, and if it continues doing so, we may be able to just split by more of the first-order divisions before too long. I think we should probably create Category:Northwestern China geography stubs too, since it'd have an existing subcat in the form of Category:Xinjiang geography stubs. Of course, it won't so much alleviate the "mainland" bickering, as open up a second front: whichever possible parent one chooses, the other faction will complain about it (witness Instantnood showing up on my talk page recently in relation to the South Centrals). I believe I'm going to take the matter back to SFD, and perhaps if necessary DRV, to attempt to get clearer resolution one way or another. Alai 01:36, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
I have to say I doubt whether this will result in any less fighting. Even in my current ___location on the island that may or may not be part of the PRC or the ROC depending on who you ask, people can't get along politically. Expect people on both sides of the strait and beyond to get along? I don't think so. Aelfthrytha 04:09, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
I was really meaning more with HK and Macao vs "Mainland". RoC is asking too much. If the UN can't solve that, I doubt a bunch of stub sorters can. Grutness...wha? 22:53, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
As I was saying, it won't so much alleviate anything as... Alai 03:34, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Support. But the new categories should remain sub-cats of Category:Mainland China geography stubs in any case. Mainland China (which is commonly known simply as China) is the main part of the People's Republic of China. Michael G. Davis 19:41, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
    • POLLY WANT A CRACKER
    All very well, except that "Mainland China" is an unofficial description which lends itself to all sorts of misinterpretation (is Hainan mainland China?). Also, there are no permcats for "Mainland China" (for the same reason), so there's no reason why there should be stubcats. Grutness...wha? 04:18, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment, where does Qinghai go in this scheme? Both the Northwest China and Southwest China articles claim it as part of that region. Caerwine Caer’s whines 17:39, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Oops. Those articles are certainly in need of being properly referenced, IN's certainly not wrong about that. On the basis of [1], [2] and [3], it appears to actually be in the NW. Alai 18:16, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
  • All these regions are regions in mainland China. Passer-by 22:18, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
    • POLLY WANT A CRACKER
    • Which isn't an official sub-division, isn't an official name, and most pertinently of all, isn't how the permcats are organised. Whither Category:Geography of mainland China, Category:Subdivisions of mainland China, Category:Provinces of mainland China, Category:Autonomous regions of mainland China, if this is such a great idea? BTW, can you please fix your signature so that it links to your user page (or user_talk: page)? Thanks. Alai 05:02, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
      • "Mainland China" is not an unofficial terminology. It is official. I don't know why there isn't perm cat for mainland China, but it depends on different situations. Provinces and so on have their bases in the Constitution, therefore and so on. Passer-by 10:33, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
        • Please explain in what contexts "mainland China" designates itself as "mainland China" for official purposes. Not when "mainland China" participates in the Olympics, say. Nor when "mainland China" issues passports. No permcat for this situation doesn't exist. The "provinces of the PRC" are quite distinct from "mainland China". If you're not going to create one, and have its existence subject to the will of the community, it makes very little sense to insist that stubs are grouped that way, seemingly solely on the basis of being able to mobilise enough "votes" at SFD and WSS/P, but not elsewhere. And, please link your signature. Alai 16:41, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
          • The People's Republic of China does not designate itself as "Mainland China". It defines the majority of itself to be "Mainland China". The People's Republic of China government, for example, releases economic and demographics figures of mainland China. Agencies of the People's Republic of China such as the Securities Regulatory Commission regulates financial activities in mainland China, whereas the People's Bank issues bank notes and coins for use in mainland China. Michael G. Davis 22:20, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
            • I repeat my question, which was not couched in terms of how the (entirity of the) PRC designates itself. When "mainland China" participates in the Olympics, it does so as "China". I don't know what passports issued in "mainland China" say precisely, but I'm betting it's "People's Republic of China", and not "mainland China". Your argument is that the PRC is in effect divided into three portions for any number of purposes (which I don't dispute, have never disputed, and have had IN lecturing me on for months), one of which ought to have some distinct appelation we can use, and which you wish to do so as "mainland China". But what I don't see is: any evidence this is an official designation (as opposed to an occasional description in specfic comparisons); any evidence this is the "most common name in English" for that portion; or more to the point, any established consensus on Wikipedia to name, scope and categorise things on such a basis -- and I firmly believe that stub types are entirely the wrong place to start. Alai 01:14, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Support split. Categorise the new categories under mainland China geography stubs. - Privacy 19:09, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

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