Help talk:Footnotes
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Help re: use of one of these templates (not working)
I just attempted to add an (awkward) endnote here ([[1]]), and it is showing in the mainspace, but when I cursor over it, it is not giving the normal infobox, and clicking on it does not actually take me down to the note (nor does clicking on the caret in the note take me back up to the inline ___location). Could anyone let me know what I did wrong / troubleshoot? Thanks. Peace and Passion ☮ ("I'm listening....") 09:07, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
- The documentation for {{r}} could be clearer, but apparently refname is not optional. I've added a temporary refname here, and the note works as expected. Feel free to change the refname to something more appropriate. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 10:32, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
- Yeah, I had some difficulty with that documentation, so I ultimately just attempted to wing it. Thank you for your assistance! Peace and Passion ☮ ("I'm listening....") 04:59, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
Overview include RefToolbar
I suggest include in the Overview section the text, from the RefToolbar section:
You can use the citation toolbar to name references. When you first create a reference, you can enter a value in the "Ref name" box.
When you want to reuse this reference, click the "Named references" button on the citation toolbar and choose which reference you would like to insert.
147.84.199.21 (talk) 08:21, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
Footnotes: using a source more than once
Section Help:Footnotes#Footnotes: using a source more than once describe the case where there are multiple identical citations of the same source. It does not, however, describe, e.g., the use of {{rp}} to cite different locations within the same source, quoting different passages within the same source. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 11:12, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
- See also Help:Shortened footnotes. Using shortened footnotes you write the source citation once at the bottom, then use references to link to it. The references can include page numbers or other ___location information which will be collated automatically. See as an example NBR 224 and 420 Classes and note that, for instance reference 10 shows 5 references to page 66 being collected together and that there 8 different pages references in SLS (1970), yet the full bibliographic citation is only required once. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 13:43, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, {{sfn}} is useful, but
|ps=doesn't provide the functionality of|quote=, and repurposing|loc=to provide a quote is kludgy at best. - IAC, shouldn't there be some guidance for new editors in that section? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 18:19, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
- You can use the {{harv}} family of templates if you want to do something specific with a quote, as something like {{harvnb}} or {{harvp}} is used inside ref tags. So you can include anytext, including urls that can't be used in quote fields, after the template but before the closing tag.
- I think the issue with going to far into the details of any particular way of referencing is that it's just one way of doing referencing, and none of them are more or less acceptable (apart from parenthical per WP:PAREN). -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 19:43, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
- You can use the {{harv}} family of templates if you want to do something specific with a quote, as something like {{harvnb}} or {{harvp}} is used inside ref tags. So you can include anytext, including urls that can't be used in quote fields, after the template but before the closing tag.
- Yes, {{sfn}} is useful, but
Period at the end of a footnote
This guide doesn't specify whether to put a period at the end of a footnote that isn't a complete sentence. It contains some examples that do and some that don't. Something should be said about this – either that a period should or shouldn't be placed, or that this should be handled consistently within a footnote section, or that it's up to the author of the individual footnote. Joriki (talk) 12:26, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
- Can you provide an example? Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 02:26, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
- The footnote text "LibreOffice For Starters, First Edition, Flexible Minds, Manchester, 2002, p. 18" is used several times, mostly without a period at the end, but in the section Footnotes: using a source more than once it's used with a period (twice). In the section Footnotes: embedding references, all the footnotes end in a period. In the section Footnotes: predefined groups, none of them do. In the section Footnotes: groups, the ones in the Notes section don't but the one in the References section does. Joriki (talk) 10:46, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- Fair point. I think in general they should have a period at the end, because that indicates more that a word set has ended rather than not having it. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 21:59, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- Beware that this can be an issue of WP:CITEVAR. The reason some of the references have a period at the end is because they use {{cite book}}, which generates an output with a period at the end. If {{citation}} was used it wouldn't have a period at the end. Obviously when plain text is used it will be a matter of preference. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 22:56, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- Fair point. References are mostly nowadays automatic. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 00:02, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- So, if I understand WP:CITEVAR correctly, this should be handled consistently per article, based on the prevailing style of the article? If so, I think it would be good to mention that on this help page, and to make the footnotes in the section Footnotes: groups consistent (since they're meant to be in the same article). Joriki (talk) 11:00, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- Beware that this can be an issue of WP:CITEVAR. The reason some of the references have a period at the end is because they use {{cite book}}, which generates an output with a period at the end. If {{citation}} was used it wouldn't have a period at the end. Obviously when plain text is used it will be a matter of preference. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 22:56, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- Fair point. I think in general they should have a period at the end, because that indicates more that a word set has ended rather than not having it. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 21:59, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- The footnote text "LibreOffice For Starters, First Edition, Flexible Minds, Manchester, 2002, p. 18" is used several times, mostly without a period at the end, but in the section Footnotes: using a source more than once it's used with a period (twice). In the section Footnotes: embedding references, all the footnotes end in a period. In the section Footnotes: predefined groups, none of them do. In the section Footnotes: groups, the ones in the Notes section don't but the one in the References section does. Joriki (talk) 10:46, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- Any guidance given should distinguish between explanatory footnotes and references; if the rules are the same, it should use wording like "for both explanatory footenotes and references,". -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 09:48, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
- Unfortunately Wikipedia doesn't have a hard and fast rule to distinguish between what is a footnote and what is a reference. You can use {{efn}} or
|group=and have them listed separately, or you can just mix them in with all the other references. You could even then call the article section that contains all of those explanatory notes and references "Footnotes". All of that would be acceptable by Wikipedia's standards. Trying to set one hard rule would run foul of WP:CITEVAR. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 11:23, 10 August 2023 (UTC)- I wasn't suggesting setting one hard rule after you pointed out WP:CITEVAR. Please see above for my suggestion. Joriki (talk) 12:02, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
- This was in reply to Metz's comment about clarifying the difference between footnotes and references, not your suggestion. I have nothing against making the page more consistent. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 17:06, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
- I wasn't suggesting setting one hard rule after you pointed out WP:CITEVAR. Please see above for my suggestion. Joriki (talk) 12:02, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
- Unfortunately Wikipedia doesn't have a hard and fast rule to distinguish between what is a footnote and what is a reference. You can use {{efn}} or
Based on the discussion above, I removed a period in Footnotes: groups to make the example consistent. I'd suggest adding something like this: "The style of footnotes (e.g. whether footnotes that aren't complete sentences end in a period) should be consistent within an article but may vary across articles. See also WP:CITEVAR." But I don't see a good place for this – the only place that currently has this level of detail is Formatting ref tags, but this is about all footnotes, not just ref tags. Joriki (talk) 10:04, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
List-defined references in the Visual Editor
Hi, this page says "Note that when you use the visual editor, you will not be able to add, remove, or change list-defined references.
" but it seems that they now work? Was this fixed recently? They still do not work with Template:reflist. Rjjiii(talk) 00:38, 21 September 2023 (UTC)